Generally speaking, all these diversity programs are the embodiment of systemic sexism and rasism. On one hand it makes entering a field easier. On the long run it perpetuates the mindset that the people benefiting from them are of lower standards.
It is indeed aggravating to need to prove to your colleagues and customers that your status and position is deserved.
Still, western society is heavily skewed towards shielding women in particular, to the point where some of them can't handle getting equal treatment to their male colleagues. Price's case is indicative of how powerful that shielding can be.
On a separate note and indicative of the quality of the journalism of Verge, they are peddling the fake form that supposedly called for the firing of female developers. Quality journalism 101, take a troll form from random twitter user and present it as real news and a real threat.
As for Forbes and their emetic article, I'll just leave this image here (don't want people to give them clicks):
I stayed away from the whole Gamergate thing, never wanted to even touch that at all, but the fact that Totalbiscut was the leader behind that fiasco, Now I fully understand why Price said what she said about him. From what I gathered Gamergate was a massive sexist driven smear campaign against women in the industry, and TB lead that fiasco, and people are actually shocked that there are women in the industry hated him?
Wow, this really shows the true colors of how fucked up the game industry is, and how screw up gamers are.
People came out to prise TB and parade him as some decent normal streamer, not the total pice of shit that started Gamergate, and I bet those same people are here trying to rip down Price..
Yah.. well. I just lost a fuckton of respect for her attackers.
The only reason that evil person wrote that smear piece and badgered the grieving widow was because she wasn't included in the gamergate wiki.
Priorities.
(As for gamergate, it seems to be a different thing for different people. For TB and a lot of people it was the failing of gaming journalism. Kind of what you see today around you, especially in regards to this Anet incident. Beyond that, he distanced himself when the extremists from both sides went completely crazy about their side of the argument. He was definitely not any kind of leader. From my understanding the GG side had no leaders, which was the reason it was completely directionless.
His "crime" was that he wanted ethics in journalism. That's what riled up the gaming press against him. Personally I'd be more appauled if somebody called me anti-GGer instead of GG-er, considering the amount of anti-GG leaders that were convicted for murder, rape, sexual assault, child porn and child molestation over the years that GG happened and died out.
Ethics in journalism. Think about it. Think about the coverage of gaming press regarding the Anet incident and how they tried to rewrite reality. Now think about what you know about GG and where you read it from.)
So that's the thing. GG was about ethics in journalism because people had documental proof (video and photos) of parties with hookers and drugs given to "reviewers" by high profile publishers and.... turned into a sexism issue?!!?
Uuuhh hows that? Why is that so similar to this now? Why are the same outlets involved this time around too?
Why so many coincidences?
One reason: Narrative control. They took one guy on twitter, back in the day, with a GG banner calling a woman some really sexist offenses and used him as flagship to pain all GG (an open group) under that light.
And now. Again.
It pisses me off to no end that people are either too blind or are ill intended to fall for this shit again.
Oh.. you mean like how people today are trying to use Price to paint all feminist wit the same brush.
Funny how that works.. I'd say pots and kettle.. bit's more like shit and shit.
Well, as long as both sides are shit, I'd call that a success. Yay equality!
Not going to lie ... I'm wondering logically how you can defend Jessica and be a decent human being? She was *clearly* in the wrong with the facts that are out there. She was mean to a fan who was CLEARLY being polite and constructive with her. Now if you look at her history holy shit is she mean. Bill Murphy how stupid can you be man? Like I'm sitting here going "I didn't think Bill was this dense....guess I was wrong."
The entire situation was dumb, but I can say honestly that the first thing anyone should do when they join any job where there is media attention is delete all your social media accounts... It will save everyone involved alot of headaches.
Ok so there was the comment that Jessica made saying she was lead on current Living Story 4. I'm playing through that content now. Puts this content in an entirely different light, and explains a ~whole~ lot... holy crap.
These types of articles and the gaming media's response in generalare the very reason terms like SJW and feminist have garnered a negative connotation. This is why trust in mainstream media is at an all-time low in America.
You can't fight fire with fire here. Specifically when that fire is not even controlled, but sprayed about ignorantly, setting the entire village aflame with no regard as to who gets burned.
I'm actually trying to look at it from all sides. And it seems to me that the only person who really got "hurt" from all this may have been Peter Fries.
Peter is an adult. He should have learned how to pick his battles wisely by now. No sympathy.
I do find the laws / culture overprotective at times. There is no good reason why you should feel afraid to say anything to your friend in private. Yet, there have been several occasions recently where people get in trouble for their private, personal opinion shared (and unfortunately leaked) in a private setting.
We had a scandal at our university recently, where a private messenger conversation was leaked, including some quite distasteful racist jokes. Several of the people in the conversation were suspended or penalised. In this case, I found it quite awkward - why are we punishing these people, who clearly had no tangible intention of harming someone besides making unfortunate jokes in private. At the same time, people go to comedy shows full of racist jokes, pay for the tickets, laugh and clap at what's said throughout.
This does not apply to the ANet story though, in my opinion. When you have a professional relationship with a person, the nature of the relationship persists. If I dislike something about a student of mine, I can't go to them and call them a piece of crap - I am still their teacher, no matter the platform, and the expectations (for the most part) don't disappear. I am a young teacher, only starting recently, and the most difficult aspect of my job is figuring this 'barrier' out. How friendly is too friendly. How strict is too strict. How honest is too honest. Even though I'm friendly with my students in out off time, there is a lot of expectations on me and the professional nature of the relationship though.
So I think in this case, the fact that the employee is being harsh towards a customer is the main issue. If you were being harsh towards a stranger, it could still paint a poor image for the company, but the situation is much worse when the person has a professional relationship with you.
I'm not sure I agree that your situation is a valid comparison though. You're the teacher, you're the professional, whereas a student is not. So the teacher - student relationship is quite different to the employer - employee one.
It's beholden on you to maintain that professional attitude because that's your job. The student isn't under the same constraints or obligations.
I make no bones about this but if my employer had the bare faced audacity to tell me how to behave outside of work, I'd tell him to go fuck a goat.
Then you never had a job at a well known company. Nothing wrong with that, of course. However, every company that has a name will have you sign and read multiple documents about what is appropriate behavior outside of work. Ys, that includes bringing ANY kind of negative publicity to the company.
Is the thread with the most posts ever? Sorry, I have nothing to add to this thread. I skimmed the issue but the one bottom line is that you never go wrong being professional no matter how awesome it would be not to.
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
I do find the laws / culture overprotective at times. There is no good reason why you should feel afraid to say anything to your friend in private. Yet, there have been several occasions recently where people get in trouble for their private, personal opinion shared (and unfortunately leaked) in a private setting.
We had a scandal at our university recently, where a private messenger conversation was leaked, including some quite distasteful racist jokes. Several of the people in the conversation were suspended or penalised. In this case, I found it quite awkward - why are we punishing these people, who clearly had no tangible intention of harming someone besides making unfortunate jokes in private. At the same time, people go to comedy shows full of racist jokes, pay for the tickets, laugh and clap at what's said throughout.
This does not apply to the ANet story though, in my opinion. When you have a professional relationship with a person, the nature of the relationship persists. If I dislike something about a student of mine, I can't go to them and call them a piece of crap - I am still their teacher, no matter the platform, and the expectations (for the most part) don't disappear. I am a young teacher, only starting recently, and the most difficult aspect of my job is figuring this 'barrier' out. How friendly is too friendly. How strict is too strict. How honest is too honest. Even though I'm friendly with my students in out off time, there is a lot of expectations on me and the professional nature of the relationship though.
So I think in this case, the fact that the employee is being harsh towards a customer is the main issue. If you were being harsh towards a stranger, it could still paint a poor image for the company, but the situation is much worse when the person has a professional relationship with you.
I'm not sure I agree that your situation is a valid comparison though. You're the teacher, you're the professional, whereas a student is not. So the teacher - student relationship is quite different to the employer - employee one.
It's beholden on you to maintain that professional attitude because that's your job. The student isn't under the same constraints or obligations.
I make no bones about this but if my employer had the bare faced audacity to tell me how to behave outside of work, I'd tell him to go fuck a goat.
Then you never had a job at a well known company. Nothing wrong with that, of course. However, every company that has a name will have you sign and read multiple documents about what is appropriate behavior outside of work. Ys, that includes bringing ANY kind of negative publicity to the company.
If you come to public notice in a professional capacity then expect your employer to pay attention. I wouldn't f*** a goat either, might not give members of your profession the wrong/right impression.
I do find the laws / culture overprotective at times. There is no good reason why you should feel afraid to say anything to your friend in private. Yet, there have been several occasions recently where people get in trouble for their private, personal opinion shared (and unfortunately leaked) in a private setting.
We had a scandal at our university recently, where a private messenger conversation was leaked, including some quite distasteful racist jokes. Several of the people in the conversation were suspended or penalised. In this case, I found it quite awkward - why are we punishing these people, who clearly had no tangible intention of harming someone besides making unfortunate jokes in private. At the same time, people go to comedy shows full of racist jokes, pay for the tickets, laugh and clap at what's said throughout.
This does not apply to the ANet story though, in my opinion. When you have a professional relationship with a person, the nature of the relationship persists. If I dislike something about a student of mine, I can't go to them and call them a piece of crap - I am still their teacher, no matter the platform, and the expectations (for the most part) don't disappear. I am a young teacher, only starting recently, and the most difficult aspect of my job is figuring this 'barrier' out. How friendly is too friendly. How strict is too strict. How honest is too honest. Even though I'm friendly with my students in out off time, there is a lot of expectations on me and the professional nature of the relationship though.
So I think in this case, the fact that the employee is being harsh towards a customer is the main issue. If you were being harsh towards a stranger, it could still paint a poor image for the company, but the situation is much worse when the person has a professional relationship with you.
I'm not sure I agree that your situation is a valid comparison though. You're the teacher, you're the professional, whereas a student is not. So the teacher - student relationship is quite different to the employer - employee one.
It's beholden on you to maintain that professional attitude because that's your job. The student isn't under the same constraints or obligations.
I make no bones about this but if my employer had the bare faced audacity to tell me how to behave outside of work, I'd tell him to go fuck a goat.
Then you never had a job at a well known company. Nothing wrong with that, of course. However, every company that has a name will have you sign and read multiple documents about what is appropriate behavior outside of work. Ys, that includes bringing ANY kind of negative publicity to the company.
If you come to public notice in a professional capacity then expect your employer to pay attention. I wouldn't f*** a goat either, might not give members of your profession the right impression.
I really don't know why you can't feed a goat....
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
If you come to public notice in a professional capacity then expect your employer to pay attention. I wouldn't f*** a goat either, might not give members of your profession the right impression.
This topic amuses me greatly.. and if I ever was (which I am not) planning to make an MMO, just reinforces why I would never slum it in the trenches with the masses.
I can barely deal with most of you as a group that I could not care less about, if my job depended on being nice to you all, that would be the embodiment of a living hell.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
This topic amuses me greatly.. and if I ever was (which I am not) planning to make an MMO, just reinforces why I would never slum it in the trenches with the masses.
I can barely deal with most of you as a group that I could not care less about, if my job depended on being nice to you all, that would be the embodiment of a living hell.
Frankly, that says more about your character than any of ours.
This topic amuses me greatly.. and if I ever was (which I am not) planning to make an MMO, just reinforces why I would never slum it in the trenches with the masses.
I can barely deal with most of you as a group that I could not care less about, if my job depended on being nice to you all, that would be the embodiment of a living hell.
You should let us know which products and/or companies you're involved with so we can boycott them.
This topic amuses me greatly.. and if I ever was (which I am not) planning to make an MMO, just reinforces why I would never slum it in the trenches with the masses.
I can barely deal with most of you as a group that I could not care less about, if my job depended on being nice to you all, that would be the embodiment of a living hell.
You should let us know which products and/or companies you're involved with so we can boycott them.
See.. that was Prices mistake, to let the shit know where she worked.
Not a mistake I plan to make given this threat, but this just validates why I think you are shit, and so does everyone else, even if they are being paid to be nice to your face.
But if it makes you feel any better, you won't ever have to deal with me, as I don't work with or for the general public anymore.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
This topic amuses me greatly.. and if I ever was (which I am not) planning to make an MMO, just reinforces why I would never slum it in the trenches with the masses.
I can barely deal with most of you as a group that I could not care less about, if my job depended on being nice to you all, that would be the embodiment of a living hell.
Frankly, that says more about your character than any of ours.
Nope, it says a lot about you.. as you obviously have not worked retail.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
This topic amuses me greatly.. and if I ever was (which I am not) planning to make an MMO, just reinforces why I would never slum it in the trenches with the masses.
I can barely deal with most of you as a group that I could not care less about, if my job depended on being nice to you all, that would be the embodiment of a living hell.
Frankly, that says more about your character than any of ours.
Nope, it says a lot about you.. as you obviously have not worked retail.
Actually, I have worked as a cashier, and hated every waking moment of it. But even in those occasions when customers were hostile, I did not suddenly have a free pass to insult them. There is no faster way to get fired, and rightly so.
This topic amuses me greatly.. and if I ever was (which I am not) planning to make an MMO, just reinforces why I would never slum it in the trenches with the masses.
I can barely deal with most of you as a group that I could not care less about, if my job depended on being nice to you all, that would be the embodiment of a living hell.
Frankly, that says more about your character than any of ours.
Nope, it says a lot about you.. as you obviously have not worked retail.
Actually, I have worked as a cashier, and hated every waking moment of it. But even in those occasions when customers were hostile, I did not suddenly have a free pass to insult them. There is no faster way to get fired, and rightly so.
LOL.. and that is why I said I would never deal with any of you.. notice your pal above 'let me boycott you" see anything other then a life loser pain the ass client in that in that kind of action...
Now you know your face.. again.. Price's only mistake was letting people know where she worked, and letting people know what she really thought of all you... a mistake I would never make, but I am being at least honest as to why.
and since I am not being paid to do this either.. have a good life.
or don't.. I don't care either way.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
This topic amuses me greatly.. and if I ever was (which I am not) planning to make an MMO, just reinforces why I would never slum it in the trenches with the masses.
I can barely deal with most of you as a group that I could not care less about, if my job depended on being nice to you all, that would be the embodiment of a living hell.
So, no recanting or retraction of your previous misleading/defamatory comments re: John Bain?
Just gross generalization and unwarranted contempt?
Well, you do live up to your handle. People like you do more harm than good for the causes you allegedly champion. How shameful.
This topic amuses me greatly.. and if I ever was (which I am not) planning to make an MMO, just reinforces why I would never slum it in the trenches with the masses.
I can barely deal with most of you as a group that I could not care less about, if my job depended on being nice to you all, that would be the embodiment of a living hell.
Frankly, that says more about your character than any of ours.
Nope, it says a lot about you.. as you obviously have not worked retail.
Actually, I have worked as a cashier, and hated every waking moment of it. But even in those occasions when customers were hostile, I did not suddenly have a free pass to insult them. There is no faster way to get fired, and rightly so.
LOL.. and that is why I said I would never deal with any of you.. notice your pal above 'let me boycott you" see anything other then a life loser pain the ass client in that in that kind of action...
Now you know your face.. again.. Price's only mistake was letting people know where she worked, and letting people know what she really thought of all you... a mistake I would never make, but I am being at least honest as to why.
and since I am not being paid to do this either.. have a good life.
or don't.. I don't care either way.
An actual list of mistakes, starting with those you brought up.
- Linking her social media account to her work.
- "Letting people know what she really thought of them."
- Harboring said feelings of contempt for the community she is supposed to be entertaining in the first place.
- Inability to take criticism - a violation of the literal first rule of being an artist.
- Inability to distinguish friendly customers from unfriendly ones (something even my remarkably antisocial ass can do).
- Failure to admit fault when said otherwise friendly customers take offense.
- Intentionally escalating the situation.
- Burning every single bridge within a 50 mile radius after the ensuing fallout by shaming her former company and boss through every media outlet available.
I completely disagrees with Ms. Price's position on that subject - the way she replied to Deroir was exaggerated but firing Peter Fries? Another exaggeration. I mostly agree with you Bill Murphy and I just want to stress how Mike O'Brien has been bad for Guild Wars 2. You are very right to say that the community sees him as a hero, when in truth, he's not. When I bought the game back at 2012 I was so in love with it and believed firmly in its bright future with all its marvelous ideas but the devs responsible for them were quitting the company and I was wondering why they were doing that. It took me many years to realize where the problem truly is and all I can say is that the game has lost its originality and its brilliant future - what's left to do now is to try to make playable content with the game's carcass. But most of its authenticity and primary goal is lost, sadly.
I completely disagrees with Ms. Price's position on that subject - the way she replied to Deroir was exaggerated but firing Peter Fries? Another exaggeration. I mostly agree with you Bill Murphy and I just want to stress how Mike O'Brien has been bad for Guild Wars 2. You are very right to say that the community sees him as a hero, when in truth, he's not. When I bought the game back at 2012 I was so in love with it and believed firmly in its bright future with all its marvelous ideas but the devs responsible for them were quitting the company and I was wondering why they were doing that. It took me many years to realize where the problem truly is and all I can say is that the game has lost its originality and its brilliant future - what's left to do now is to try to make playable content with the game's carcass. But most of its authenticity and primary goal is lost, sadly.
The primary goal of the launch game can trace its failure to one of the earliest major patches - the infamous Southsun Cove patch. That patch not only introduced ascended gear - a mistake or an improvement depending on who you ask, but a betrayal of the anti-gear grind philosophy either way.
More importantly, Southsun Cove set the tone for the entirety of Season 1 - inconsistent, bug-ridden content rushed out every 2 weeks. Guild Wars 2 was a disaster under Colin Johanson. I would never want to go back to shoddy biweekly updates or aimless patches with no clear overarching direction. We think of MO as a hero because it was under his lead that the game finally found a coherent design philosophy and a stable tempo of high quality content. It may not be the game promised in the Manifesto, but it is a better game than it ever was or ever could have been under Colin.
This topic amuses me greatly.. and if I ever was (which I am not) planning to make an MMO, just reinforces why I would never slum it in the trenches with the masses.
I can barely deal with most of you as a group that I could not care less about, if my job depended on being nice to you all, that would be the embodiment of a living hell.
Frankly, that says more about your character than any of ours.
Nope, it says a lot about you.. as you obviously have not worked retail.
Actually, I have worked as a cashier, and hated every waking moment of it. But even in those occasions when customers were hostile, I did not suddenly have a free pass to insult them. There is no faster way to get fired, and rightly so.
LOL.. and that is why I said I would never deal with any of you.. notice your pal above 'let me boycott you" see anything other then a life loser pain the ass client in that in that kind of action...
I think he was only replying in the way he did because your tone is so aggressive.
People should really understand and expect that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.
If you are aggressive to others, others probably won't be nice to you back - and there will probably be more others who will chime in and support the wronged party.
One need not to always express their opinion or statement on any given subject in a confrontational matter. It is just not necessary and it creates unnecessary stress for yourself trying to have to argue harder to try to make your point heard.
This topic amuses me greatly.. and if I ever was (which I am not) planning to make an MMO, just reinforces why I would never slum it in the trenches with the masses.
I can barely deal with most of you as a group that I could not care less about, if my job depended on being nice to you all, that would be the embodiment of a living hell.
You should let us know which products and/or companies you're involved with so we can boycott them.
See.. that was Prices mistake, to let the shit know where she worked.
Not a mistake I plan to make given this threat, but this just validates why I think you are shit, and so does everyone else, even if they are being paid to be nice to your face.
But if it makes you feel any better, you won't ever have to deal with me, as I don't work with or for the general public anymore.
Wow, did you just imply the entire community here is "shit" with your series of childish rants? Dude, take your fucking meds already and sit down.
This topic amuses me greatly.. and if I ever was (which I am not) planning to make an MMO, just reinforces why I would never slum it in the trenches with the masses.
I can barely deal with most of you as a group that I could not care less about, if my job depended on being nice to you all, that would be the embodiment of a living hell.
You should let us know which products and/or companies you're involved with so we can boycott them.
See.. that was Prices mistake, to let the shit know where she worked.
Not a mistake I plan to make given this threat, but this just validates why I think you are shit, and so does everyone else, even if they are being paid to be nice to your face.
But if it makes you feel any better, you won't ever have to deal with me, as I don't work with or for the general public anymore.
Wow, did you just imply the entire community here is "shit" with your series of childish rants? Dude, take your fucking meds already and sit down.
It is quite ironic that he can sit on a high horse while simultaneously calling two communities shit, isn't it. He's a real work of art.
Comments
~~ postlarval ~~
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
I can barely deal with most of you as a group that I could not care less about, if my job depended on being nice to you all, that would be the embodiment of a living hell.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Not a mistake I plan to make given this threat, but this just validates why I think you are shit, and so does everyone else, even if they are being paid to be nice to your face.
But if it makes you feel any better, you won't ever have to deal with me, as I don't work with or for the general public anymore.
Now you know your face.. again.. Price's only mistake was letting people know where she worked, and letting people know what she really thought of all you... a mistake I would never make, but I am being at least honest as to why.
and since I am not being paid to do this either.. have a good life.
or don't.. I don't care either way.
- Linking her social media account to her work.
- "Letting people know what she really thought of them."
- Harboring said feelings of contempt for the community she is supposed to be entertaining in the first place.
- Inability to take criticism - a violation of the literal first rule of being an artist.
- Inability to distinguish friendly customers from unfriendly ones (something even my remarkably antisocial ass can do).
- Failure to admit fault when said otherwise friendly customers take offense.
- Intentionally escalating the situation.
- Burning every single bridge within a 50 mile radius after the ensuing fallout by shaming her former company and boss through every media outlet available.
That's a lot more than one mistake.
More importantly, Southsun Cove set the tone for the entirety of Season 1 - inconsistent, bug-ridden content rushed out every 2 weeks. Guild Wars 2 was a disaster under Colin Johanson. I would never want to go back to shoddy biweekly updates or aimless patches with no clear overarching direction. We think of MO as a hero because it was under his lead that the game finally found a coherent design philosophy and a stable tempo of high quality content. It may not be the game promised in the Manifesto, but it is a better game than it ever was or ever could have been under Colin.