TL;DR version: Metzen and the gaming media don't understand basic statistics. 9% of the US population has a felony conviction. For comparison, a study done by Newsweek found that 1% of Gamergate (a group derided as being dedicated to harassing women) twitter accounts were linked to harassment.
So supposedly the most toxic gamers on the internet are only 1/9th as likely to say mean things about you online as the general population is to be a felon.
As a group, gamers are some of the nicest and easiest to get along with people you will ever meet, but in a sample size of 10 million of them 1% is a massive number of A-holes, and the internet makes that tiny minority of jerks feel very concentrated and very loud.
TL;DR version: Metzen and the gaming media don't understand basic statistics. 9% of the US population has a felony conviction. For comparison, a study done by Newsweek found that 1% of Gamergate (a group derided as being dedicated to harassing women) twitter accounts were linked to harassment.
So supposedly the most toxic gamers on the internet are only 1/9th as likely to say mean things about you online as the general population is to be a felon.
As a group, gamers are some of the nicest and easiest to get along with people you will ever meet, but in a sample size of 10 million of them 1% is a massive number of A-holes, and the internet makes that tiny minority of jerks feel very concentrated and very loud.
73.6% of all statistics are made up Over 85% of all statistics are made up on the spot 8 out of 10 statistics are completely made up 42.7% of all statistics are made up on the spot 90% of all statistics can be made to say anything... 50% of the time Did you know 90% of all statistics are made up on the spot?
And that is only from the first search hit...
What I do know is, the moment you start quoting numbers is the moment people immediately begin to question it.
TL;DR version: Metzen and the gaming media don't understand basic statistics. 9% of the US population has a felony conviction. For comparison, a study done by Newsweek found that 1% of Gamergate (a group derided as being dedicated to harassing women) twitter accounts were linked to harassment.
So supposedly the most toxic gamers on the internet are only 1/9th as likely to say mean things about you online as the general population is to be a felon.
As a group, gamers are some of the nicest and easiest to get along with people you will ever meet, but in a sample size of 10 million of them 1% is a massive number of A-holes, and the internet makes that tiny minority of jerks feel very concentrated and very loud.
73.6% of all statistics are made up Over 85% of all statistics are made up on the spot 8 out of 10 statistics are completely made up 42.7% of all statistics are made up on the spot 90% of all statistics can be made to say anything... 50% of the time Did you know 90% of all statistics are made up on the spot?
And that is only from the first search hit...
What I do know is, the moment you start quoting numbers is the moment people immediately begin to question it.
100% of people who regurgitate this nonsense don't understand basic statistics.
New research led by a University of Georgia sociologist on the growth in
the scope and scale of felony convictions finds that, as of 2010, 3
percent of the total U.S. population and 15 percent of the
African-American male population have served time in prison. People with
felony convictions more broadly account for 8 percent of the overall
population and 33 percent of the African-American male population.
So 8% according to this study from 2017. I arrived at 9% by extending the prevailing trend line of a 2010 study through 2018.
This is a study by a women's activist group. They looked at a sample of twitter uses selected by Randi Harper (author of GGautoblocker) as the worst offenders. They determined that just 65 of 9844 accounts were harassers linked to GG, or 0.66%, which rounds to 1% for simplicity.
A lot of gamers tend to be entitled, spoiled twats. So I'm not surprised to see devs responding this way. It's kind of a mixed deal though... I feel bad for the devs (and writers) that don't deserve it... but on the other hand, it's also a necessary evil.
If no one speaks up, some devs would shamelessly exploit us and milk us for every last penny we've got while giving as little as possible in exchange. Pretty much what someone else said earlier... in the end it's not so different from other things in life.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
Why is it always so black and white with some folks? No, the customer is not always right, and as someone who has spent years in retail in the past, it's ridiculous to think otherwise. However, the customer IS to always be treated with respect. "I'm sorry, sir. We don't offer that here. Might I suggest Company B." is far and away better than, "Lol, No, go to Wal-Mart."
Metzen is the creative face behind many of the characters that people know and love from the Warcraft Universe, and whether he's writing for them at this time or not, he will always be associated with them. I don't disagree with what he said; he's right. I do, however, think he should have been responsible enough to say it without being so inflammatory. At the very least, acknowledge that the people being overly and abusively critical are the extreme minority.
"These IPs are huge, their fanbases are millions and millions of people all across the world. All it takes is 1 time to completely screw it up because you think, wrongly, that you are immune to failure at your own hands. When you attack your fanbase, you are either going to lose huge amounts of fans and their money or you are going to be fired because those in charge, will come after you for losing them that money."
When you call your fans 12 yo and you claim that you know better than those of us who consume this material because we are super involved in it's memorization due to our fandom, then you have lost all respect for yourself and should be removed. How's that for maturity.
Here let me include an example of what's happened to a time honored IP that everyone loved after the screwed with it and then attacked the fanbase.
Star Trek Discovery: Not only will there be either no season 2 or only a couple of episodes to end out the series, but they are losing millions of players on their Star Trek Online game because they are trying to include STD lore in what was previously solely reserved for actual canon.
I don’t understand how there is any debate about this. He is right and if you think otherwise you’re probably the 12 year old who rages about changes made to a video game.
Its sad that people get insulted by the stuff he said and its pathetic to hear people threaten to quit the game because of his words. Get over yourself.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
Never a good idea to call customers, former, potential, or otherwise, names.
This mentality is exactly what's wrong. This absurd notion that the customer is in any way 'right' or entitled to anything. The only thing you are entitled to is choosing if you want to patronize a product with your money. Don't like the product? Don't buy it.
This whiney "you can't treat a customer this way" attitude IS the problem. You aren't special. Your measly 14 bucks a month doesn't entitle you to anything.
Frankly, i'd love to work for a company that allowed its reps to talk to people like you honestly.
If your customer is acting like a whiney little child, calling them out isn't a bad thing. Spending money on a product doesn't give you a license to act like an ass.
You wouldn't work there long, because the company wouldn't be very successful.
Even if a customer is acting like an ass, there's always something insightful to be gleaned from examining the complaints.
"Your most unhappy customers are your greatest source of learning." - Bill Gates
While I understand and agree overall... sometimes customers are just asses because that's the kind of person they are.
-Speaking from a customer service provider standpoint.
There are a lot of outlets for emotional rants these days and people get clicks and approvals and reactions so what might have been a small dissatisfied player base is now getting much more attention. The trick is to keep your player base the majority of them satisfied while ignoring the more vocal without becoming involved in a fight.
There is absolutely no benefit to catering to the extremes in either direction . If the game is good and story good the majority of the players will enjoy it. Keep the hysterics and the reaction among your own staff to the minimal and carry on.
I always thought the story in WoW was it's weakest point, so I don't really care about the narrative all that much. What I do care about is all the mindless QoL changes that were added to the game over the years that have either dumb down the core systems or eroded away the social fabric of the game. The game is has been trying so how hard to cater to non-mmo players in order to increase profits and the game has suffered for it quite a bit.
Case in point, is this nonsense over the story this expansion, most of these entitled whiners were probably not part of the core demographic that made up the game years ago. They are part of this whiny entitled group of super, ultra casual players that Blizzard has been pandering to over the years. They complained about EVERYTHING these days.
Just like Asmongold always says on his streams, if you gave these player types gold bars, they would complain how heavy they are.
To me this this shows you how far MMORPG's have come, once made with roleplayers in mind now they can't even be bothered to have a coherent story and lore.
Never a good idea to call customers, former, potential, or otherwise, names.
This mentality is exactly what's wrong. This absurd notion that the customer is in any way 'right' or entitled to anything. The only thing you are entitled to is choosing if you want to patronize a product with your money. Don't like the product? Don't buy it.
This whiney "you can't treat a customer this way" attitude IS the problem. You aren't special. Your measly 14 bucks a month doesn't entitle you to anything.
Frankly, i'd love to work for a company that allowed its reps to talk to people like you honestly.
If your customer is acting like a whiney little child, calling them out isn't a bad thing. Spending money on a product doesn't give you a license to act like an ass.
Here's a novel thought. Game professionals need you, the gamer. You don't need them.
Behaving with anything less than a professional curtsy towards paying customers (amount is irrelevant, what you asked is what you got), is the epitome of entitlement. Expecting them to remain customers is merely a sign of an abusive relationship that certain people think is sustainable.
In the case of Blizzard, I believe they lost control when they started implemented completely unnecessary tools, that were used to stifle any meaningful player interaction.
I do agree with your last paragraph. It however works both ways.
Your first line is fundamentally wrong if you call yourself a gamer. You do need them as much as they need you. Without them you don't have the outlet for your hobby because no one is making the games. See how that in itself is somewhat a ridiculous statement.
There is a difference between not needing A developer and not needing ANY developers. We can play video games without EA or Activision. Conversely, there are developers like CDProjeckt Red and Digital Extremes who few, if any gamers would like to see go under.
Just because the gaming industry is one industry does not mean that it is united or uniform. That's how competition works.
There is a difference between not needing A customer and not needing ANY customer.
Never a good idea to call customers, former, potential, or otherwise, names.
This mentality is exactly what's wrong. This absurd notion that the customer is in any way 'right' or entitled to anything. The only thing you are entitled to is choosing if you want to patronize a product with your money. Don't like the product? Don't buy it.
This whiney "you can't treat a customer this way" attitude IS the problem. You aren't special. Your measly 14 bucks a month doesn't entitle you to anything.
Frankly, i'd love to work for a company that allowed its reps to talk to people like you honestly.
If your customer is acting like a whiney little child, calling them out isn't a bad thing. Spending money on a product doesn't give you a license to act like an ass.
Here's a novel thought. Game professionals need you, the gamer. You don't need them.
Behaving with anything less than a professional curtsy towards paying customers (amount is irrelevant, what you asked is what you got), is the epitome of entitlement. Expecting them to remain customers is merely a sign of an abusive relationship that certain people think is sustainable.
In the case of Blizzard, I believe they lost control when they started implemented completely unnecessary tools, that were used to stifle any meaningful player interaction.
I do agree with your last paragraph. It however works both ways.
Your first line is fundamentally wrong if you call yourself a gamer. You do need them as much as they need you. Without them you don't have the outlet for your hobby because no one is making the games. See how that in itself is somewhat a ridiculous statement.
There is a difference between not needing A developer and not needing ANY developers. We can play video games without EA or Activision. Conversely, there are developers like CDProjeckt Red and Digital Extremes who few, if any gamers would like to see go under.
Just because the gaming industry is one industry does not mean that it is united or uniform. That's how competition works.
There is a difference between not needing A customer and not needing ANY customer.
The devs don't need YOU, they do need US.
To a degree, some customers are indeed more trouble or do more damage than they're worth. This is why bans of the worst offenders (cheaters, botters, public chat racists, etc.) happen. However, publicly shaming one customer can very easily spiral into a larger boycott or other form of customer discontent. It all depends on tact and context.
TL;DR version: Metzen and the gaming media don't understand basic statistics. 9% of the US population has a felony conviction. For comparison, a study done by Newsweek found that 1% of Gamergate (a group derided as being dedicated to harassing women) twitter accounts were linked to harassment.
So supposedly the most toxic gamers on the internet are only 1/9th as likely to say mean things about you online as the general population is to be a felon.
As a group, gamers are some of the nicest and easiest to get along with people you will ever meet, but in a sample size of 10 million of them 1% is a massive number of A-holes, and the internet makes that tiny minority of jerks feel very concentrated and very loud.
73.6% of all statistics are made up Over 85% of all statistics are made up on the spot 8 out of 10 statistics are completely made up 42.7% of all statistics are made up on the spot 90% of all statistics can be made to say anything... 50% of the time Did you know 90% of all statistics are made up on the spot?
And that is only from the first search hit...
What I do know is, the moment you start quoting numbers is the moment people immediately begin to question it.
100% of people who regurgitate this nonsense don't understand basic statistics.
New research led by a University of Georgia sociologist on the growth in
the scope and scale of felony convictions finds that, as of 2010, 3
percent of the total U.S. population and 15 percent of the
African-American male population have served time in prison. People with
felony convictions more broadly account for 8 percent of the overall
population and 33 percent of the African-American male population.
So 8% according to this study from 2017. I arrived at 9% by extending the prevailing trend line of a 2010 study through 2018.
This is a study by a women's activist group. They looked at a sample of twitter uses selected by Randi Harper (author of GGautoblocker) as the worst offenders. They determined that just 65 of 9844 accounts were harassers linked to GG, or 0.66%, which rounds to 1% for simplicity.
And you just keep proving my point...
Statistics have nothing to do with this. People USE numbers to support their THEORIES... but numbers can be used to say anything.
WoW subs are on the rise. It's the best game on the planet! WoW subs are on the decline. The game sucks kimchi!
Neither of those two assertions are true, but you can build a spreadsheet to support your supposition in both cases.
Statistics are just numbers. You place far more value in them than you should. Remember... cooking the books is a real phenomenon.
On one hand I think Metzen has some good points....on the other.....the freaking writers of these events are complicit in the fact they KNEW this would cause a huge community reaction. They also fed little bits of the story at a time on purpose so you WOULD jump to conclusions or at least speculate what was going on. Anyone who did not see this would divide the community is an idiot and shouldn't be writing for them....of course they knew! And the fact people have become emotionally invested in the lore should be celebrated. The reactions were not nerd toxicity, they were emotional reactions which most of the time are irrational regardless of the circumstances.
Saying that....I think a lot of Horde players are misguided in that they have been led on to believe the Horde were boy scouts all this time....I mean you have a race of freaking zombies on your side, come on.
Well yes i guess by that definition the Forsaken are indeed evil, not too surprising really. But do they really represent the Horde? or are they just an evil faction that happens to be a member of 'The Horde'. Also, while nobody thinks 'The Horde' are 'boyscouts' neither are the Alliance btw as neither side represented 'Good' or 'Evil', it was always Alliance vs Horde and neither side walked with the angels. Instead it was more a case of the Horde being betrayed by Sylvannas rather than her betraying the Alliance, its like she is subverting The Horde from what they were into just mindless tools of Evil, rather than the proud warriors they used to be, as unlike Saurfang, players do not have the option to take the moral high road, instead they must follow the forsaken down a dark path they had supposedly been rescued from when they joined the Horde in the first place, Sylvannas' betrayal of the Horde is as insidious as it is absolute.
On one hand I think Metzen has some good points....on the other.....the freaking writers of these events are complicit in the fact they KNEW this would cause a huge community reaction. They also fed little bits of the story at a time on purpose so you WOULD jump to conclusions or at least speculate what was going on. Anyone who did not see this would divide the community is an idiot and shouldn't be writing for them....of course they knew! And the fact people have become emotionally invested in the lore should be celebrated. The reactions were not nerd toxicity, they were emotional reactions which most of the time are irrational regardless of the circumstances.
Saying that....I think a lot of Horde players are misguided in that they have been led on to believe the Horde were boy scouts all this time....I mean you have a race of freaking zombies on your side, come on.
Well yes i guess by that definition the Forsaken are indeed evil, not too surprising really. But do they really represent the Horde? or are they just an evil faction that happens to be a member of 'The Horde'. Also, while nobody thinks 'The Horde' are 'boyscouts' neither are the Alliance btw as neither side represented 'Good' or 'Evil', it was always Alliance vs Horde and neither side walked with the angels. Instead it was more a case of the Horde being betrayed by Sylvannas rather than her betraying the Alliance, its like she is subverting The Horde from what they were into just mindless tools of Evil, rather than the proud warriors they used to be, as unlike Saurfang, players do not have the option to take the moral high road, instead they must follow the forsaken down a dark path they had supposedly been rescued from when they joined the Horde in the first place, Sylvannas' betrayal of the Horde is as insidious as it is absolute.
Chris Metzen can fellate a cactus for all anyone cares.
Agreed.
With that guy out of the way, maybe WoW can improve. The abolishment of different PvE and PvP servers with toggleable open-world PvP is a good first step.
Chris Metzen can fellate a cactus for all anyone cares.
Agreed.
With that guy out of the way, maybe WoW can improve. The abolishment of different PvE and PvP servers with toggleable open-world PvP is a good first step.
There are PVP servers for those that want it, and PVE servers for those that prefer it, if your solution is to take away player choice then i think you might be missing the point of PVP and PVE in WoW.
Chris Metzen can fellate a cactus for all anyone cares.
Agreed.
With that guy out of the way, maybe WoW can improve. The abolishment of different PvE and PvP servers with toggleable open-world PvP is a good first step.
There are PVP servers for those that want it, and PVE servers for those that prefer it, if your solution is to take away player choice then i think you might be missing the point of PVP and PVE in WoW.
It's not my solution. That's what they're doing.
"Blizzard is cutting out PvP servers entirely. Now players will choose whether to opt into PvP in their capital city, and if they turn it on, they’ll venture out into a world filled with other players who have opted into PvP. It also means players won’t be pressured into joining a PvP server just to play with their friends who are on their servers."
Chris Metzen can fellate a cactus for all anyone cares.
Agreed.
With that guy out of the way, maybe WoW can improve. The abolishment of different PvE and PvP servers with toggleable open-world PvP is a good first step.
There are PVP servers for those that want it, and PVE servers for those that prefer it, if your solution is to take away player choice then i think you might be missing the point of PVP and PVE in WoW.
It's not my solution. That's what they're doing.
"Blizzard is cutting out PvP servers entirely. Now players will choose whether to opt into PvP in their capital city, and if they turn it on, they’ll venture out into a world filled with other players who have opted into PvP. It also means players won’t be pressured into joining a PvP server just to play with their friends who are on their servers."
It sounds like the number of PVP'ers on the PVP servers was too low, i don't think this will really increase the number of PVP'ers, at least for open world pvp, i doubt it will have any impact on the arena/battlegrounds pvp, it really sounds like they are merging the PVP servers into the PVE ones in a way that won't affect the PVE'ers, so that the PVP'ers maybe get a bit more social interaction, maybe even turn them into PVE'ers
Chris Metzen can fellate a cactus for all anyone cares.
Agreed.
With that guy out of the way, maybe WoW can improve. The abolishment of different PvE and PvP servers with toggleable open-world PvP is a good first step.
There are PVP servers for those that want it, and PVE servers for those that prefer it, if your solution is to take away player choice then i think you might be missing the point of PVP and PVE in WoW.
It's not my solution. That's what they're doing.
"Blizzard is cutting out PvP servers entirely. Now players will choose whether to opt into PvP in their capital city, and if they turn it on, they’ll venture out into a world filled with other players who have opted into PvP. It also means players won’t be pressured into joining a PvP server just to play with their friends who are on their servers."
It sounds like the number of PVP'ers on the PVP servers was too low, i don't think this will really increase the number of PVP'ers, at least for open world pvp, i doubt it will have any impact on the arena/battlegrounds pvp, it really sounds like they are merging the PVP servers into the PVE ones in a way that won't affect the PVE'ers, so that the PVP'ers maybe get a bit more social interaction, maybe even turn them into PVE'ers
Um, you should read more about it if you want to understand what they're trying to accomplish.
I think it will encourage more PvE players to try PvP because it will be on their own terms.
Also, this effectively neutralizes gankers, who seem to be the only people who hate the change. When you encounter other PvPers in-game, they will be looking for a fight. You no longer get to gank some poor soul out gathering because they will not be in PvP mode (if they're smart). This eliminates one of the main complaints of people who don't want to play on a PvP server but still want to PvP once in a while.
Add in Communities (which effectively eliminates the need for Discord), compressing stat and item levels, new character customizations, and I for one have returned. Besides, it's one of the few games left that doesn't have an in-your-face P2W cash shop and loot boxes. Two more reasons to "go back to WoW". Game subscriptions FTW.
Comments
So supposedly the most toxic gamers on the internet are only 1/9th as likely to say mean things about you online as the general population is to be a felon.
As a group, gamers are some of the nicest and easiest to get along with people you will ever meet, but in a sample size of 10 million of them 1% is a massive number of A-holes, and the internet makes that tiny minority of jerks feel very concentrated and very loud.
Over 85% of all statistics are made up on the spot
8 out of 10 statistics are completely made up
42.7% of all statistics are made up on the spot
90% of all statistics can be made to say anything... 50% of the time
Did you know 90% of all statistics are made up on the spot?
And that is only from the first search hit...
What I do know is, the moment you start quoting numbers is the moment people immediately begin to question it.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
When you call your fans 12 yo and you claim that you know better than those of us who consume this material because we are super involved in it's memorization due to our fandom, then you have lost all respect for yourself and should be removed. How's that for maturity.
Star Trek Discovery: Not only will there be either no season 2 or only a couple of episodes to end out the series, but they are losing millions of players on their Star Trek Online game because they are trying to include STD lore in what was previously solely reserved for actual canon.
While I understand and agree overall... sometimes customers are just asses because that's the kind of person they are.
-Speaking from a customer service provider standpoint.
There is absolutely no benefit to catering to the extremes in either direction . If the game is good and story good the majority of the players will enjoy it. Keep the hysterics and the reaction among your own staff to the minimal and carry on.
~~ postlarval ~~
Case in point, is this nonsense over the story this expansion, most of these entitled whiners were probably not part of the core demographic that made up the game years ago. They are part of this whiny entitled group of super, ultra casual players that Blizzard has been pandering to over the years. They complained about EVERYTHING these days.
Just like Asmongold always says on his streams, if you gave these player types gold bars, they would complain how heavy they are.
Statistics have nothing to do with this. People USE numbers to support their THEORIES... but numbers can be used to say anything.
WoW subs are on the rise. It's the best game on the planet!
WoW subs are on the decline. The game sucks kimchi!
Neither of those two assertions are true, but you can build a spreadsheet to support your supposition in both cases.
Statistics are just numbers. You place far more value in them than you should. Remember... cooking the books is a real phenomenon.
Also, while nobody thinks 'The Horde' are 'boyscouts' neither are the Alliance btw as neither side represented 'Good' or 'Evil', it was always Alliance vs Horde and neither side walked with the angels. Instead it was more a case of the Horde being betrayed by Sylvannas rather than her betraying the Alliance, its like she is subverting The Horde from what they were into just mindless tools of Evil, rather than the proud warriors they used to be, as unlike Saurfang, players do not have the option to take the moral high road, instead they must follow the forsaken down a dark path they had supposedly been rescued from when they joined the Horde in the first place, Sylvannas' betrayal of the Horde is as insidious as it is absolute.
With that guy out of the way, maybe WoW can improve. The abolishment of different PvE and PvP servers with toggleable open-world PvP is a good first step.
~~ postlarval ~~
"Blizzard is cutting out PvP servers entirely. Now players will choose whether to opt into PvP in their capital city, and if they turn it on, they’ll venture out into a world filled with other players who have opted into PvP. It also means players won’t be pressured into joining a PvP server just to play with their friends who are on their servers."
~~ postlarval ~~
I think it will encourage more PvE players to try PvP because it will be on their own terms.
Also, this effectively neutralizes gankers, who seem to be the only people who hate the change. When you encounter other PvPers in-game, they will be looking for a fight. You no longer get to gank some poor soul out gathering because they will not be in PvP mode (if they're smart). This eliminates one of the main complaints of people who don't want to play on a PvP server but still want to PvP once in a while.
Add in Communities (which effectively eliminates the need for Discord), compressing stat and item levels, new character customizations, and I for one have returned. Besides, it's one of the few games left that doesn't have an in-your-face P2W cash shop and loot boxes. Two more reasons to "go back to WoW". Game subscriptions FTW.
~~ postlarval ~~