When did gamers become such a bunch of sissies?
Me and my crew will be waiting to kill you and take your stuff.
PK/PvP - call it whatever you like.
It is exactly groups like yours that make these kind of games fail in the long run. Cannibalizing themselves :P
Agreed, but as long as it's within the rules permitted by the devs (even if unintended) he has a right to play this way, after all he pays his money too.
Quite possible the game won't satisfy his desires either, perhaps limiting his pking too greatly or not having full loot which I doubt it does. (Queue the crocodile tears)
Trying to create a balance between all player preferences is a very tricky thing as CCP devs would verify, and more often than not fails to find the proper balance.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I actually have a bit of a problem with the proposed system in that it breaks the games overall immersion as it makes no sense in its setting.
You are a survivor, you have faced many dangers then comes along "XX-mightydic-XX and starts taking pot shots at you with a pipe pistol, so you either engage and fall for the "He has a rubbish weapon" thing or ignore him, allowing him to chase you and take potshots to either annoy you or kill you with boredom.
So even if you don't want to PvP its still going to be annoying as hell or immersion breaking, why in hell didn't they do a flagged server, or, you know what I have so many "Or's" I am not going to list as they have been many times already by others.
I guess I am going to have to wait till it comes out, as to be honest not totally trusting the information coming out or a certain company mans mouth, he has form for sheer bedazzling BS and icing over glaring issues that modders identify and start trying to fix launch plus 1 hour.
If I am also honest im waiting for the other shoe to drop with this version of Fallout, I'm waiting to see the other money making aspects for this they have planned, they got busted and derided so much with their previous attempts, I am not entirely convince they have not come up with a game that suits their cash shop planes, opposed to making a game with a cash shop.
He is intentionally trying to downplay and obfuscate the details of the PVP system in the hopes of "suckering" in the PVP adverse and get at least their up front money, especially the preorders.
He talks out of both sides of his mouth, previously saying they planned for ways to keep players worst behavior in check while encouraging players to participate in the conflict.
Even in this thread some believe from what was said they'll be able to ignore the gankers from view. Perhaps, but not in all situations or unitil the PVPer have taken their pound of flesh.
Besides, these are small shards, say 20 people or less as I recall, who cares if someone gets a murder flag by killing you. Likely you never will get a chance to exact revenge.
Even better, a dearh squad of 15 could move into a single shard and wait for 5 unlucky players to get randomly placed in the same shard with them, likely to be replaced with 5 different players again and again
What fun this will be.
Is it really a good idea to mislead people and face the wrath of social media. Even if you make the initial sale what happens to the disgruntled flooding the reviews and down voting and generally making a stink. If you can survive it and not also have to offer refunds and the negative reviews and then what, offer the lame excuse " Oh we never expected people to do that"..... just won't fly. Ask Sean.
Ask EA, despite the loot box kerfuffle they still sold what, 8, 10 million copies, just fell short of their 12M goal.
As for NMS, still sold a ton, kept going and released a solid expansion.
Conan Exiles, still a pretty buggy game but Funcom has made major bank.
Bethesda is betting the IP will carry them, and note, they haven't directly mislead (yet) just kept things vague enough to give them plausible deniability.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
When did gamers become such a bunch of sissies?
Me and my crew will be waiting to kill you and take your stuff.
PK/PvP - call it whatever you like.
Well, no, they will just ignore you and you will have your hands in your nose wondering wtf happened.
Also, I don't think these gamers are "sissies" so much as they don't want anything to do with people who can't understand that these are games, not a way to get our your issues on other people.
That's like saying that all pvp'ers have crippling emotional issues and don't understand boundaries.
But we know that's not true.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Just give people the option between PVP/PVE servers. If others can just ignore you then theres no point in bounty system being there, theres no point in having open world pvp being a part of the game either. This just sounds like them trying to pander to everybody and as a result, NOBODY.
I don't think the IGNORE feature will work as planned. First off, it seems that the people most likely to use that function would be those who just killed another player to avoid retaliation when the victim's friends arrive. Means to escape consequences aren't typically a good thing, especially in PvP games.
And why is all this talk about 'good' and 'bad' guys? This is supposed to be a post-apocalyptic world where survival is the ultimate goal. Who is going to have time to organize 'sides'?
The minimal damage on the first shot thing also doesn't seems to be thought out very well. It appears that it might work in a 1 on 1 encounter, but what happens when there's a gank squad on 1? Will the victim have to IGNORE each one of the gank squad? What happens if there are multiple gank squads?
Right now, I'm not really convinced the devs have thought everything out well enough. What kind of fun will this game offer a PvE player? Until that aspect is presented, this particular sheep knows enough to avoid a minefield.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I don't think the IGNORE feature will work as planned. First off, it seems that the people most likely to use that function would be those who just killed another player to avoid retaliation when the victim's friends arrive. Means to escape consequences aren't typically a good thing, especially in PvP games.
And why is all this talk about 'good' and 'bad' guys? This is supposed to be a post-apocalyptic world where survival is the ultimate goal. Who is going to have time to organize 'sides'?
The minimal damage on the first shot thing also doesn't seems to be thought out very well. It appears that it might work in a 1 on 1 encounter, but what happens when there's a gank squad on 1? Will the victim have to IGNORE each one of the gank squad? What happens if there are multiple gank squads?
Right now, I'm not really convinced the devs have thought everything out well enough. What kind of fun will this game offer a PvE player? Until that aspect is presented, this particular sheep knows enough to avoid a minefield.
Agreed, there are a lot of missing details and conflicting statements which require more info before we reach a real understanding on how it will work.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I don't think the IGNORE feature will work as planned. First off, it seems that the people most likely to use that function would be those who just killed another player to avoid retaliation when the victim's friends arrive. Means to escape consequences aren't typically a good thing, especially in PvP games.
And why is all this talk about 'good' and 'bad' guys? This is supposed to be a post-apocalyptic world where survival is the ultimate goal. Who is going to have time to organize 'sides'?
The minimal damage on the first shot thing also doesn't seems to be thought out very well. It appears that it might work in a 1 on 1 encounter, but what happens when there's a gank squad on 1? Will the victim have to IGNORE each one of the gank squad? What happens if there are multiple gank squads?
Right now, I'm not really convinced the devs have thought everything out well enough. What kind of fun will this game offer a PvE player? Until that aspect is presented, this particular sheep knows enough to avoid a minefield.
Well we don't really have all the information.
For example, an easy fix would be that if you attack another player you don't get to use the "ignore" feature for a certain amount of time. It's no different than flagging for pvp.
as far as "gank squads", we'll see. It's a good point because a person can get killed by the 10th gank squad attack.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Am I wrong to assume that the ignore function will be based on the phasing system that ESO and WOW have?
If so what happens to the small servers' communities? Bob the Builder gets ganked and decides to ignore Joe the Jerk. From now on Bob and Job will not be in the same "instance" or server. The good thing about these small servers is that you create a lasting community but if people gets swapped in and out because of PVP, then everyone is always a new face.
I actually have a bit of a problem with the proposed system in that it breaks the games overall immersion as it makes no sense in its setting.
You are a survivor, you have faced many dangers then comes along "XX-mightydic-XX and starts taking pot shots at you with a pipe pistol, so you either engage and fall for the "He has a rubbish weapon" thing or ignore him, allowing him to chase you and take potshots to either annoy you or kill you with boredom.
So even if you don't want to PvP its still going to be annoying as hell or immersion breaking, why in hell didn't they do a flagged server, or, you know what I have so many "Or's" I am not going to list as they have been many times already by others.
I guess I am going to have to wait till it comes out, as to be honest not totally trusting the information coming out or a certain company mans mouth, he has form for sheer bedazzling BS and icing over glaring issues that modders identify and start trying to fix launch plus 1 hour.
If I am also honest im waiting for the other shoe to drop with this version of Fallout, I'm waiting to see the other money making aspects for this they have planned, they got busted and derided so much with their previous attempts, I am not entirely convince they have not come up with a game that suits their cash shop planes, opposed to making a game with a cash shop.
He is intentionally trying to downplay and obfuscate the details of the PVP system in the hopes of "suckering" in the PVP adverse and get at least their up front money, especially the preorders.
He talks out of both sides of his mouth, previously saying they planned for ways to keep players worst behavior in check while encouraging players to participate in the conflict.
Even in this thread some believe from what was said they'll be able to ignore the gankers from view. Perhaps, but not in all situations or unitil the PVPer have taken their pound of flesh.
Besides, these are small shards, say 20 people or less as I recall, who cares if someone gets a murder flag by killing you. Likely you never will get a chance to exact revenge.
Even better, a death squad of 15 could move into a single shard and wait for 5 unlucky players to get randomly placed in the same shard with them, likely to be replaced with 5 different players again and again
What fun this will be.
You know after all the shade Bethesda has thrown at ZoS for ESO being a bastard child etc blah blah, these guys make Firor look like a straight talkin' guy. I watched bits and portions of the entire stream and man the BS was thick even for a convention.
He shouldn't leap onto the stage with his Sham WOW headset and false smile. No he should just slowly cross the stage pushing a wheelbarrow piled high with BS with a gold plated trowel sticking out proudly from the top, he doesn't have to say anything, just walk and nod, the thick spreading of BS with the trowel is given, no words needed.
Well to start, FO76 is a DRM and cash shop bs want to see if anyone would not mind feature gets added for all future money leeching capacity. Again if this crap 76 make money you can bet those 2 things will be on all future games. Beth been wanting to cash on the Mods for longest time and 76 IS that dream of crap and the DRM to ensure you WILL be pay dearly for it.
Reasons why FO76 is title that way, for obviously reason to sell it base on branding alone and fans will eat this up without questioning, well for most anyway. Reason #2, why open world PvP is in even though it been known to be a sure failure and yet they still op in for what? The whole purpose of the PvP element is Beth want to go into the Battle Royal tend like a sore loser. Beth really want that Branding money as well as BR pie so with the promise of both in the name of Fallout 76.
The more I hear WHAT they say about 76 the more BS than my toilet can ever output. I'm more worry about Starfield than what or how Todd will BS in and out of 76. The more greedy money ideas gets added into any game the more they are killing the gaming industry. Its ironic that how they are slowing killing the industry which they live off of was a good idea to begin with.
Well if you had to ask, I'll say since 2014 to now 2018 how many games got released each year? Pre 2014 we got about 3 to 5 new games every one to few months. Back then it feels like we get a new mmo every other month vs now we get one 1 or 2 mmo per year? All we got for the last 2 years are mostly remaster of already own games. There are more mmo games close down than new ones popping up and for some oddly old ones somehow get 2nd or 3rd life. The gaming industry is more about making new ways to con you out of money than making new games.
Last bit I'll say we gamers should be more worry about whats in Starfield than 76 might/not be. If the feature always on junk get added to all Beth games, I might have to write Beth off my favorite game developer for good. Currently Beth already losing point on the creation kit is lock behind a wall and every other tries on how to charge for free mods is making me very angry. Not buying any anything from Beth until I get my creation kit tools for free and stop the CC junk and now this always on DRM sh it.
I have always held out the hope that a system could be made that would allow PvP and PvE in the same "zones" (seems to me they will just have one). Maybe this will work, but I have reservations as various tagging systems have been tried before.
There hasn't been a system yet that worked great, CCP did it the best IMO but still many players are loath to play EVE even so.
Flagging sounds good, but there are ways to exploit even that system, in my book a separate server, shard or region that players voluntarily join when they wish to PVP is the way to go.
Or.... Bethesda and other developers should have the balls to leave the "pve" money on the table and just say, "Nope, it's a pvp game." And deal with the loss of pve revenue and players and all that it entails. But not they're greedy bastards who want their revenue cake and are will to compromise their game vision for that revenue stream.
Just a reminder GaaS is all about the revenue stream. So if a feature or design doesn't promote the stream, then... you know what happens. It's dropped or bent until it fits.
I've been saying that since the E3 reveal announcement. Most of their PR effort has gone into publicly downplaying the real consequences of having a full-on PVP game and trying to seduce the large group of Fallout fans who want nothing to do with PVP with all kinds of convoluted schemes and double talk that boil down to "but we're doing it differently!" in order to seduce PVErs into buying their PVP game.
Yes the biggest games on the planet today are all PVP game. But they're also all transient match games with no emphasis on living world permanence. Games like MMOs or even something like this where a big part of the attraction is character development, building and permanence are a whole different genre and they need to have PVP handled very differently from the casual match games in transient spaces.
All they really need to do is take a look at WOW's latest scheme to see the kind of system that works there with buy in from both, the PVE and PVP fans. Players want to choose and know ahead of time exactly what kind of environment they're about to play in.
But I suspect that Bethesda's lack of transparency about what FO76 really is goes beyond just selling extra units to the unsuspecting. There is no GaaS possible without retention and if you take out the PVP out of FO76 you're left with a game that content wise is tiny compared to their single player Fallouts. If you actually did have the option to totally turn off PVP or go into a PVE server you'd likely spend less time in this than you did in FO4 and then move on.
What they're really up to is trying to convert PVErs into PVPers with PvP baby talk that frankly, sounds ridiculously simplistic to any of us who have ever actually played a PVP game: "just ignore the bad person and he'll eventually get bored and go away" ... what a novel and revolutionary concept!.... not.
So no, their PR is not really aimed at us. It's aimed at their many imaginary PVP virgin fans they want to convert and they're doing that because they know that the only way an online game retains enough players to be a viable GaaS, with all of its fluffy (and perhaps not so fluffy) microtransaction potential earnings, is by either a steady infusion of PVE content or eternal PVP conflicts or both, and they've clearly chosen not to go for options 1 or 3.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
IMO this is an easy fix. At character creation have a PvP character flag.. if yes get matched with other PvP characters if no get matched with pve characters.
I've been against the whole idea of PvP in Fallout games but what i just read is ridiculous. The way i see it, they realized PvP is not a very good idea in Fallout76 but it had to be implemented nonetheless for some vague reason.
Why not just have separate servers with different set of rules? What they have now on table is something that will please no one.
IMO this is an easy fix. At character creation have a PvP character flag.. if yes get matched with other PvP characters if no get matched with pve characters.
Seriously
They are not proposing a clear and easy fix like this, they intend for PVE players to give the game a try using the beloved Fallout IP as the lure.
They hope to convince the PVEer it really won't be so bad, but if they don't stick around at least they get revenue from the big early access box price if nothing else.
Its looking to be a classic bait and switch with few real details shared until right before launch.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I applaud the new ideas they're trying with FO76, but I really get the feeling they're trying to reinvent the "PVP wheel" here. Most of the time, simple is better. Three very easy solutions are immediately obvious to everyone but the developers, it seems. Either have PvE and PvP servers, a flagging system, or allow people to host their own (co-op). I won't bother with the game if it stays like this. It seems needlessly complicated to effectively achieve the same outcome (PvP or PvE).
That's what I was thinking too. Just keep things simple. I can just see the griefers jumping into the line of fire of the mob you're after, just so you inadvertently become flagged when you tag them so they can shoot back. And they can keep doing this until you get so frustrated you either shoot them and get flagged, or just plain quit.
I was excited when I heard 76 was coming out and then saw this mess. Ever since pvp in The Division, I have learned that there are some very warped minds out there. Really not going to bother with this game at all at this point.
Comments
Quite possible the game won't satisfy his desires either, perhaps limiting his pking too greatly or not having full loot which I doubt it does. (Queue the crocodile tears)
Trying to create a balance between all player preferences is a very tricky thing as CCP devs would verify, and more often than not fails to find the proper balance.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
As for NMS, still sold a ton, kept going and released a solid expansion.
Conan Exiles, still a pretty buggy game but Funcom has made major bank.
Bethesda is betting the IP will carry them, and note, they haven't directly mislead (yet) just kept things vague enough to give them plausible deniability.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
And why is all this talk about 'good' and 'bad' guys? This is supposed to be a post-apocalyptic world where survival is the ultimate goal. Who is going to have time to organize 'sides'?
The minimal damage on the first shot thing also doesn't seems to be thought out very well. It appears that it might work in a 1 on 1 encounter, but what happens when there's a gank squad on 1? Will the victim have to IGNORE each one of the gank squad? What happens if there are multiple gank squads?
Right now, I'm not really convinced the devs have thought everything out well enough. What kind of fun will this game offer a PvE player? Until that aspect is presented, this particular sheep knows enough to avoid a minefield.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Reasons why FO76 is title that way, for obviously reason to sell it base on branding alone and fans will eat this up without questioning, well for most anyway. Reason #2, why open world PvP is in even though it been known to be a sure failure and yet they still op in for what? The whole purpose of the PvP element is Beth want to go into the Battle Royal tend like a sore loser. Beth really want that Branding money as well as BR pie so with the promise of both in the name of Fallout 76.
The more I hear WHAT they say about 76 the more BS than my toilet can ever output. I'm more worry about Starfield than what or how Todd will BS in and out of 76. The more greedy money ideas gets added into any game the more they are killing the gaming industry. Its ironic that how they are slowing killing the industry which they live off of was a good idea to begin with.
Well if you had to ask, I'll say since 2014 to now 2018 how many games got released each year? Pre 2014 we got about 3 to 5 new games every one to few months. Back then it feels like we get a new mmo every other month vs now we get one 1 or 2 mmo per year? All we got for the last 2 years are mostly remaster of already own games. There are more mmo games close down than new ones popping up and for some oddly old ones somehow get 2nd or 3rd life. The gaming industry is more about making new ways to con you out of money than making new games.
Last bit I'll say we gamers should be more worry about whats in Starfield than 76 might/not be. If the feature always on junk get added to all Beth games, I might have to write Beth off my favorite game developer for good. Currently Beth already losing point on the creation kit is lock behind a wall and every other tries on how to charge for free mods is making me very angry. Not buying any anything from Beth until I get my creation kit tools for free and stop the CC junk and now this always on DRM sh it.
Yes the biggest games on the planet today are all PVP game. But they're also all transient match games with no emphasis on living world permanence. Games like MMOs or even something like this where a big part of the attraction is character development, building and permanence are a whole different genre and they need to have PVP handled very differently from the casual match games in transient spaces.
All they really need to do is take a look at WOW's latest scheme to see the kind of system that works there with buy in from both, the PVE and PVP fans. Players want to choose and know ahead of time exactly what kind of environment they're about to play in.
But I suspect that Bethesda's lack of transparency about what FO76 really is goes beyond just selling extra units to the unsuspecting. There is no GaaS possible without retention and if you take out the PVP out of FO76 you're left with a game that content wise is tiny compared to their single player Fallouts. If you actually did have the option to totally turn off PVP or go into a PVE server you'd likely spend less time in this than you did in FO4 and then move on.
What they're really up to is trying to convert PVErs into PVPers with PvP baby talk that frankly, sounds ridiculously simplistic to any of us who have ever actually played a PVP game: "just ignore the bad person and he'll eventually get bored and go away" ... what a novel and revolutionary concept!.... not.
So no, their PR is not really aimed at us. It's aimed at their many imaginary PVP virgin fans they want to convert and they're doing that because they know that the only way an online game retains enough players to be a viable GaaS, with all of its fluffy (and perhaps not so fluffy) microtransaction potential earnings, is by either a steady infusion of PVE content or eternal PVP conflicts or both, and they've clearly chosen not to go for options 1 or 3.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Seriously
Why not just have separate servers with different set of rules? What they have now on table is something that will please no one.
They hope to convince the PVEer it really won't be so bad, but if they don't stick around at least they get revenue from the big early access box price if nothing else.
Its looking to be a classic bait and switch with few real details shared until right before launch.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon