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Pantheon Paladin - First Game Play
Sovrath
Member LegendaryPosts: 32,780
I didn't seem to see this here so here it is:
This is a streamer by the name of Saicred
Just started watching it myself.
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Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
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Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
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Comments
Well, maybe the second week, I'm expecting a rocky release.
Love it !
Go ahead.
First of all THREE sec taunt,are you serious,geesh this is the same crap the EQ team were doing before,abilities/timers are TOO SHORT.
WRATH..generating stuff like this to be able to perform other abilities is just bad,it locks down what you can do to a simple math equation that sums up the resulting combat before it is even started.
This was the same mistakes that Eric guy did with his f2p/donation mmorpg.
Here is a VERY simple hint as to how it SHOULD be done...
HATE meters,your combat is not handcuffed but if you get over zealous you draw hate from the Tank causing problems.You do NOT limit to the exact amount what a class can do with added bars.It is fine to use bars on mages for many reasons,one of which mez nuke,mez nuke rinse repeat game exploited but there are other reasons.
You DON'T do it with melee classes...this just ruins ANY hope i had that brad has learned something,his team has learned something,how about simply calling this EQ3 or VG 2.0.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
However.
Pantheon in particular is not meant to be innovative.
In fact it unashamedly aspire to be the real EQ successor, which means keeping the core mechanics of EQ.
One of those mechanics was the ability to single pull mobs, the challenge in this particular feature is trying to avoid getting aggro from the mobs nearby.
Sure mobs aren't linked together, and I agree it is not realistic, but the player can still aggro other mobs by getting too close.
And in Pantheon, like EQ, even getting one Add is a big problem, since trash mobs are much harder to kill and deal unreal DPS compared to other games.
Getting 3-4 Adds would mean a certain wipe, even with a Mezzer in group (as you can see from the video).
So having mobs linked together won't work too well for this particular mechanics, because in order to make it viable they'd have to nerf the mobs, defeating the point of having a more challenging gameplay.
In Pantheon wipes will be the norm, not the exception.
Getting 3 adds instead of 2, it's the difference between life and death, I am not sure I want 5 (weaker) linked adds just because it looks more realistic.
EQ had roles that no other MMO had (Maybe vanilla wow):
1) The Puller (Monk)
2) The Tank (Warrior)
5) The Crowd Controller (Enchanter/Bard)
6) The DPS (Mage)
To be honest I do not care about an advanced AI at all, I care that the group dynamic described above stays exactly the same.
By implementing your suggestions, that would outright eliminate the Puller role.
And if we add other 'modern' features we can easily eliminate Crowd Control and Buffers too, which is exactly what modern MMOs did, and that's why I don't like them as much as older MMORPGs.
When people says EQ had better mechanics for group play, that's what they mean.
I know that many, including you, think this is actually worse, but that's the kind of gameplay Old Schoolers are looking for and no other modern MMO can offer.
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your not saying anything wrong and i agree to a point but your forgetting cost versus return. look how far game came from arti pixels and what do people say about games now ? whats next, give of us bigger better worlds and for less cost.
even if they made a game far more advance then anything we seen till now the majority would just get bored and say ok, whats next?
so they focus on cost versus return, what can they make with time they have. a perfect example of overselling an trying make they next big thing is stonehearth. https://www.stonehearth.net/
i backed that game on KS day 1, they made a lot of promises here KS page to show were it started. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1590639245/stonehearth
then they ran out money and time an said sorry here they best we can do enjoy are great game as is....
so it not hard to dream, want or criticizes why are they just making a new wheel versus a car but i am least atm looking forward to a EQ 2.0 even if it not the next best thing. maybe when technology makes coding and back end things easier will get more complex detail worlds with better ai.
I'm less particular about the engine VR is using, and the graphics quality are okay for my admittedly feeble vision. That isn't going to be a draw for people used to superior graphics found in current FPS games, even from consoles. The graphics may make EQ1 vets giddy, but what I've seen is on par with other games like Rift.
Performance of the graphics engine, if it is sub-par, it will kill this game. Playing a 'leisurely' game like an EQ1 clone can be tolerated. Playing that game with lag, either server-side or client-side will challenge the tolerance level of most current players.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Your comments about the stagnation of the MMORPG genre are right on target. If nothing new is tried, nothing changes.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
https://wiki.project1999.com/Zentile's_P99_Monk_Pulling_Guide
So it was possible for "everyone" to be alerted, even an entire zone.
I've played several modern MMO's and I've never seen one with realistic aggro. And because mobs are frequently rubberbanded back to their spawn point or don't have proximity aggro, there're next to no consequences.
The skill in Everquest combat wasn't hte combat itself, like blocking or chaining abilities tactical maneuvers, but managing all parts of the game. A large part of the gameplay was watching for potential adds and managing them as a group. Not getting lost--and hence killed--was important too which might occasionally happen if you were a puller or the group was close to wiping and everyone flees. You were very focused on the environment around you. You didn't wnat to overextend. The consequences for losing a fight were high in original EQ. So there was a very real tension which built up in combat. This made expectations higher between players. It meant more communication.
Something many people missed--and I missed too--is how interdependent EQ was in its systems. One of hte reasons the core combat system was automatic was to allow players to chat during fights. At the time voice chat was very limited and not commonly used. In modern MMO's, voice chat has enabled fights to be much more action-oriented, or otherwise less automatic. Also the tendency for soloing to be popular has had an influence because it removes the need for communication. And keep in mind automatic combat in EQ1 didn't mean players had nothing to do. I outlined above how hte environment and working together was very important to success. Over the years, accumulating hotkeyed abilities made EQ1 combat less and less automatic.
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There's a lot of that in this thread.
To paraphrase some examples (criticisms) from this thread (and others):
"Pantheon is designed around a more old-school playstyle that is highly group-centric, which is out of place in the modern MMO scene".
Yes, we know. It's why we're following and/or backing it.
"Combat in Pantheon is slow and fights take longer, even with a full group, unlike like in modern MMOs."
Yes, we know. It's why we're following and/or backing it.
"Pantheon won't pull in large player numbers that modern MMOs are designed to"
Yes, we know. It's why we're following and/or backing it.
Brad himself has gone on record, multiple times, at length, about this very thing explaining that they *know* Pantheon is a niche game, catering to an extant portion of the community who have longed for this kind of game, and have found viable options lacking. It's one of the main reasons they're developing it... to cater to a significant demographic that has been neglected for the past decade or so.
And on and on.
You'd *think* people who find Pantheon uninteresting would simply move on and find a game that does interest them. Not like there's literally dozens of other options on this very site to choose from. Instead, they swoop into the forums to share their "expert insights" on a game they demonstrably know nothing about.
Reading these criticisms and "expert insights" reminds me of a line from a Porcupine Tree song, "Anesthetize":
"I'm saying nothing. But I'm saying nothing with feel".
Well, good news for you, then. VR is designing a very cool feature into Pantheon... They're making it 100% optional to play.
It's true!
If Pantheon doesn't interest you, or "breeds contempt"... you don't have to play it. You can play something else that doesn't 'breed contempt' in you instead!
Pretty cool huh? They're really thinking of everyone. A swell bunch those VR folks are.
I know it's a crazy, revolutionary concept, especially these days when it's assumed that every MMO must be designed to cater to everyone... but there you go.
Sarcasm aside... that phrase.. "familarity breeds contempt project" just says so much of what I'm talking about. If Pantheon's design makes you feel "contemptuous" towards it.. then just don't follow or play it. Forget it exists. It's really that simple. This isn't brain surgery.
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But to be fair, I think we are forgetting that Pantheon is a true Indie game, nowhere near Star Citizen budget.
I am sure people expect it to be a bit rough on the edges, I don't think they are expecting a "premium experience", I'm certainly not.
Unity is not a MMORPG engine, but unlike SotA, VR heavily modified it.
So I don't think anyone is expecting Unreal engine performances, though I am sure that it would do a decent job (due to the modifications).
I thinks it's all down to expectations.
My expectations for Star Citizens are far higher than Pantheon.
If Pantheon had a $200 Million budget, than I would agree that the game looks pretty poor.
But for the resources they have, they've done miracles IMO (Remember they didn't even raised kickstarter money, people forget that).
Does anyone have the answer?
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