They never recovered from their launch, which is a shame. They might have had a chance if they pulled a desparation move and launched a fully-featured expac to get people back.
The game itself was amazing, and although I totally agree with the idea that is was way overtuned on launch it was incredible later on.
Yeah, the launch was bad, very bad.
People have these theories that the game failed because of the hardcore raids, or the cartoony graphics or some other nonsense but its the simple fact that the game just wasnt done. Wildstar needed atleast another full year in development but it got pushed out early by NCsoft.
I was there in the beta and I was there at launch and it was a disaster. The graphics had bugs, the sound had bugs, the UI had bugs, many quests were bugged, the classes were super imbalanced and had a lot of bugs and most importantly the endgame dungeons and raids were so bugged they were almost unplayable.
Every single aspect of the ENTIRE game had bugs. But, I guess, none of this matters anymore.
They never recovered from their launch, which is a shame. They might have had a chance if they pulled a desparation move and launched a fully-featured expac to get people back.
The game itself was amazing, and although I totally agree with the idea that is was way overtuned on launch it was incredible later on.
Yeah, the launch was bad, very bad.
People have these theories that the game failed because of the hardcore raids, or the cartoony graphics or some other nonsense but its the simple fact that the game just wasnt done. Wildstar needed atleast another full year in development but it got pushed out early by NCsoft.
I was there in the beta and I was there at launch and it was a disaster. The graphics had bugs, the sound had bugs, the UI had bugs, many quests were bugged, the classes were super imbalanced and had a lot of bugs and most importantly the endgame dungeons and raids were so bugged they were almost unplayable.
Every single aspect of the ENTIRE game had bugs. But, I guess, none of this matters anymore.
I like how you dismiss the main reasons why people didn't even consider buying the game.
Ultimately I can trade Wildstar's failure to one BIG thing in the early days. Downtime. There was none. You had no time to talk to people, meet people, and even answering whispers seemed dangerous. If you were out questing it was non-stop action or running to the next big arrow to big up/turn in quests. Wildstar did so many things right... but they really failed to deliver on the community aspect.
I was ahead of the leveling curve at launch, so only a handful of players would be leveling in the same hub as me, but grouping together was actually a disadvantage. You moved through quests SO FAST that the odds of being on the same part as someone else was almost none.
They alienated and mocked those who weren't hardcore raiders, said the game wasn't for them. Well, we listened and left it alone. Soon they realized their mistake, but by then it was far too late. Add in the facts that the game was very badly optimized and published by NCSoft, and you've got a recipe for failure.
I'm not happy Carbine will be gone, but I'm not exactly overflowing with sympathy for them either. You reap what you sow.
Kind of makes you wonder about the future upcoming "hard core" raid and group centric games like Pantheon or Saga of Lucima.
Both are following similar old school philosophys with a big difference of not trying to be a better WOW.
That said both will also likely suffer from optimization and performance issues, at least in the early going.
Only a fool would invest in a PvE quest grinder in the day and age of Player vs Player combat.
Overwatch is selling franchices for 40 million a pop. There’s not a person in the “civilized world who hasn’t heard of Fortnight.
Both of the “old school” mmorpg you mentioned will be dead on arrivial.
I think you're missing a couple of big parts of the reason why PvP in Overwatch, Fortnite, etc., are so popular while PvP in MMOs continues to be niche.
Those hugely popular games all have roots in old fashioned shooters where you use disposable avatars and where death is no biggie and expected, and they are all quickie battle arena games.
MMORPGS have their roots in RPGs where you develop and get attached to characters over weeks, months, years. Although death and rezz are still part of the RPG game play it is much more infrequent.
In order to enjoy PvP in RPGs you have to develop that FPS mentality and while some of us do and enjoy MMO PvP, the majority who enjoy MMOs approach it differently. Death of your character has just always been a bigger deal in RPGs relative to FPS.
Using the popularity of FPS-derived, current PvP games to make a statement about how MMOs should be developed doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense.
I don't understand the train of the thought that thinks PvP in mmos is niche. The only reason I played Wow so long was to do battle grounds. Chastise me for liking instanced PvP. But I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Every single aspect of the ENTIRE game had bugs. But, I guess, none of this matters anymore.
I like how you dismiss the main reasons why people didn't even consider buying the game.
They advertised it as nonstop hardcore raid. So I ignored it. When it became F2P, I tried it for about a half hour. It became clear it offered nothing I was interested in.
To be honest though, I tried Overwatch and felt the same way. It offers none of the things I'm interested in.
One fails... one is... successful for reasons I don't understand. But that's gaming...
They alienated and mocked those who weren't hardcore raiders, said the game wasn't for them. Well, we listened and left it alone. Soon they realized their mistake, but by then it was far too late. Add in the facts that the game was very badly optimized and published by NCSoft, and you've got a recipe for failure.
I'm not happy Carbine will be gone, but I'm not exactly overflowing with sympathy for them either. You reap what you sow.
Kind of makes you wonder about the future upcoming "hard core" raid and group centric games like Pantheon or Saga of Lucima.
Both are following similar old school philosophys with a big difference of not trying to be a better WOW.
That said both will also likely suffer from optimization and performance issues, at least in the early going.
Only a fool would invest in a PvE quest grinder in the day and age of Player vs Player combat.
Overwatch is selling franchices for 40 million a pop. There’s not a person in the “civilized world who hasn’t heard of Fortnight.
Both of the “old school” mmorpg you mentioned will be dead on arrivial.
I think you're missing a couple of big parts of the reason why PvP in Overwatch, Fortnite, etc., are so popular while PvP in MMOs continues to be niche.
Those hugely popular games all have roots in old fashioned shooters where you use disposable avatars and where death is no biggie and expected, and they are all quickie battle arena games.
MMORPGS have their roots in RPGs where you develop and get attached to characters over weeks, months, years. Although death and rezz are still part of the RPG game play it is much more infrequent.
In order to enjoy PvP in RPGs you have to develop that FPS mentality and while some of us do and enjoy MMO PvP, the majority who enjoy MMOs approach it differently. Death of your character has just always been a bigger deal in RPGs relative to FPS.
Using the popularity of FPS-derived, current PvP games to make a statement about how MMOs should be developed doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense.
I don't understand the train of the thought that thinks PvP in mmos is niche. The only reason I played Wow so long was to do battle grounds. Chastise me for liking instanced PvP. But I'm sure I'm not the only one.
I like PvP in MMOs too. My main server in WOW was Emerald Dream, an RP/PvP server.
But the portion of MMO players that PvP compared to those that don't is tiny. Hence "niche."
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
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Good Game, but I left after the playerbase left. Can't game alone. I think the turn off was the animations on the ground to much going on.
Sucks though the game was made with some talented ppl.
For me, the game released in an unoptimized state that discouraged me from trying it past beta. I came back after they sorted that out and found a pretty good MMORPG, though nothing specifically I would say was stand-out good. However, the population had already left.
What a chore that game was. Linear quest hub themepark at it's worst. The optimization was horrible, for much longer than it should have. If MMO's were still being made, I would be happier.
Well I installed and tried it for 10 levels before uninstalling. That was REALLY bad leveling and zone design. The combat was mediocre and there really was no story. I never felt that way in SWTOR or GW2 so these guys totally dropped the ball.
The reason I quit was the telegraphs. One of the most annoying "innovations" of MMORPG history.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
They alienated and mocked those who weren't hardcore raiders, said the game wasn't for them. Well, we listened and left it alone. Soon they realized their mistake, but by then it was far too late. Add in the facts that the game was very badly optimized and published by NCSoft, and you've got a recipe for failure.
I'm not happy Carbine will be gone, but I'm not exactly overflowing with sympathy for them either. You reap what you sow.
Kind of makes you wonder about the future upcoming "hard core" raid and group centric games like Pantheon or Saga of Lucima.
Both are following similar old school philosophys with a big difference of not trying to be a better WOW.
That said both will also likely suffer from optimization and performance issues, at least in the early going.
Only a fool would invest in a PvE quest grinder in the day and age of Player vs Player combat.
Overwatch is selling franchices for 40 million a pop. There’s not a person in the “civilized world who hasn’t heard of Fortnight.
Both of the “old school” mmorpg you mentioned will be dead on arrivial.
I think you're missing a couple of big parts of the reason why PvP in Overwatch, Fortnite, etc., are so popular while PvP in MMOs continues to be niche.
Those hugely popular games all have roots in old fashioned shooters where you use disposable avatars and where death is no biggie and expected, and they are all quickie battle arena games.
MMORPGS have their roots in RPGs where you develop and get attached to characters over weeks, months, years. Although death and rezz are still part of the RPG game play it is much more infrequent.
In order to enjoy PvP in RPGs you have to develop that FPS mentality and while some of us do and enjoy MMO PvP, the majority who enjoy MMOs approach it differently. Death of your character has just always been a bigger deal in RPGs relative to FPS.
Using the popularity of FPS-derived, current PvP games to make a statement about how MMOs should be developed doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense.
I don't understand the train of the thought that thinks PvP in mmos is niche. The only reason I played Wow so long was to do battle grounds. Chastise me for liking instanced PvP. But I'm sure I'm not the only one.
I like PvP in MMOs too. My main server in WOW was Emerald Dream, an RP/PvP server.
But the portion of MMO players that PvP compared to those that don't is tiny. Hence "niche."
We have no numbers, only the imperial evidence we see. I think your wrong, way off. This is what I see. Both crowfall and cu will do far better than panth and sol. That will be for one reason only, pvp.
Never played WildStar, it was marketed as a "hardcore" game, so, a filthy casual like myself avoided it.
Might be why it died.
The crazy thing is that it was actually a really casual game with almost no grind and tons of things to do for people who didn't want to raid. It just had some really hard boss fights in raids, that's the ONLY thing that made it hardcore.
It required commitment, of course, but so does every game in the genre. That's what we want though, right? An MMO that we can keep playing for a long time...?
You should try it before it goes KABOOM! Just so you know...
Nah.
As it stands, in most MMO's with Raids, the "Other things" are just filler, and all the good stuff is locked behind the raid boss.
I am not being rude when I say this, but I am not going to waste my time playing filler content in a dead game, when I was not motivated to play second-class-player filler content when it was supposedly alive.
And given the game is getting closed down... well I think there might be some room for debate on that whole "What we want" thing..
I just meant try it while you still can so you can at least have a look what the game was like. It's not going to hurt. Isn't going to cost anything. If you have the spare time then why not, just out of curiosity?
I disagree with the raid thing though. If you decide that you don't want to raid then the thing below that becomes your good stuff, unless you're not capable of ignoring the top level at all. Are you a millionaire with all the most expensive and hard to get things in the real world? Because if you're not then by your logic you're just living filler content so you might as well not bother living.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
We were in negotiations to publish this game for about 1 year before NCSoft decided to self publish. We saw that the game had good potential, but really felt that the team was not seeing the bigger picture. The Carbine management (especially) was not open to the idea of using best practices from other games/developers as a way to avoid issues before they happened. We strongly recommended that they build the game for F2P (rather than the P2P that they wanted) and to build a game that was a bit more consistent and new user friendly.
I do remember seeing some of the ideas that we had pitched them showing up in one of the relaunches, but they never really grasped the idea overall. They were simply attaching different systems because someone had told them too... rather than integrating them into the design to make them a good fit for the game.
Carbine Studios had some great developers, and a really dedicated team. They just needed some adult supervision who could objectively look at the project, and had not drunk the cool aid. I am a bit sad to see the effort wasted, but that happens more than people realize in this industry.
It deserved to die. It was not that good a game to start with.
One of the most ignorent things ive ever seen someone say. Not only are good men and women losing there jobs but there were actually people who enjoy(ed) this. Myself being one of them you probably barely ever gave this game a shot or maybe you did but in any case have a heart. DIdnt your mother ever tell you have nothing nice to say nothing at all.
It deserved to die. It was not that good a game to start with.
One of the most ignorent things ive ever seen someone say. Not only are good men and women losing there jobs but there were actually people who enjoy(ed) this. Myself being one of them you probably barely ever gave this game a shot or maybe you did but in any case have a heart. DIdnt your mother ever tell you have nothing nice to say nothing at all.
History is littered with the failures of men, will you shed a tear for them all?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Game was DOA. Too much like WoW too close to WoW's prime.
It launched during the launch of WoD literally one of the worst xpacks ever. It died because of internal battles between management and developers on top of that a rocky launch, and f2p transition, and even more so the game was over tuned for the hardcore and it wasnt until pre-f2p that they fixed stuff but with the lack of servers, servers not being able to handle the loads and just crappy marketing. Myself i love this game but i didnt hear anythig about this game 4 years ago i did though because of the steam launch cause i use steam alot. SO theres alot of things that killed the game and it wasnt because it was to much like wow because most people want a new wow you know a sweet mmo with a new world new lore and awesome raids and dungeons.
They alienated and mocked those who weren't hardcore raiders, said the game wasn't for them. Well, we listened and left it alone. Soon they realized their mistake, but by then it was far too late. Add in the facts that the game was very badly optimized and published by NCSoft, and you've got a recipe for failure.
I'm not happy Carbine will be gone, but I'm not exactly overflowing with sympathy for them either. You reap what you sow.
Kind of makes you wonder about the future upcoming "hard core" raid and group centric games like Pantheon or Saga of Lucima.
Both are following similar old school philosophys with a big difference of not trying to be a better WOW.
That said both will also likely suffer from optimization and performance issues, at least in the early going.
Only a fool would invest in a PvE quest grinder in the day and age of Player vs Player combat.
Overwatch is selling franchices for 40 million a pop. There’s not a person in the “civilized world who hasn’t heard of Fortnight.
Both of the “old school” mmorpg you mentioned will be dead on arrivial.
I think you're missing a couple of big parts of the reason why PvP in Overwatch, Fortnite, etc., are so popular while PvP in MMOs continues to be niche.
Those hugely popular games all have roots in old fashioned shooters where you use disposable avatars and where death is no biggie and expected, and they are all quickie battle arena games.
MMORPGS have their roots in RPGs where you develop and get attached to characters over weeks, months, years. Although death and rezz are still part of the RPG game play it is much more infrequent.
In order to enjoy PvP in RPGs you have to develop that FPS mentality and while some of us do and enjoy MMO PvP, the majority who enjoy MMOs approach it differently. Death of your character has just always been a bigger deal in RPGs relative to FPS.
Using the popularity of FPS-derived, current PvP games to make a statement about how MMOs should be developed doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense.
I don't understand the train of the thought that thinks PvP in mmos is niche. The only reason I played Wow so long was to do battle grounds. Chastise me for liking instanced PvP. But I'm sure I'm not the only one.
I like PvP in MMOs too. My main server in WOW was Emerald Dream, an RP/PvP server.
But the portion of MMO players that PvP compared to those that don't is tiny. Hence "niche."
We have no numbers, only the imperial evidence we see. I think your wrong, way off. This is what I see. Both crowfall and cu will do far better than panth and sol. That will be for one reason only, pvp.
I's not like we don't have almost 20 years of evidence: every MMO that has ever offered PvE and PvP servers had the bulk of their population in the PvE ones. Hard core PvP MMOs like Darkfall, Mortal Online, etc., have never, ever, reached the numbers that primarily PvE MMOs have.
Even games like DAoC that achieved respectable numbers in their day for a mostly PvP MMO did it because of their segregation of the PvP into special zones.
Like I said, I play and enjoy a lot of PvP in MMOs but I'm not of the PvP faith so I tend to be more realistic about who we are relative to the whole of MMO fans.
PS: Pantheon and Lucima are also niche but for a different "must group" reason.
Post edited by Iselin on
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
It deserved to die. It was not that good a game to start with.
One of the most ignorent things ive ever seen someone say. Not only are good men and women losing there jobs but there were actually people who enjoy(ed) this. Myself being one of them you probably barely ever gave this game a shot or maybe you did but in any case have a heart. DIdnt your mother ever tell you have nothing nice to say nothing at all.
The forum members (not so much the staff) and users of reddit /r/mmorpg are well known to hate every new MMO that isn't a copy/paste of the 1990s MMOs. But even when a 1990s style MMO comes out, they still complain about every bug or whatever and don't play it lol. Like vanguard saga of heroes, a perfect MMO to recreate the 1990s but they didn't play it cause launch was bad (even though anarchy online launch was bad and it was still successful, so that is a fail excuse). They just don't want to play any MMOs, even if its an MMO they ask for but its not 100% perfect.
Hence why I take 0% seriousness on this forum and post random junk and then once in a while post something serious, cause that is what everyone else does here. And if someone likes an MMO and comes here, they get called a fanboy or a shill rofl.
Both the forums here and reddit mmorpg are filled with MMO haters that shouldn't be on a MMO site, so they troll about how much they hate MMOs lol.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
The reason I quit was the telegraphs. One of the most annoying "innovations" of MMORPG history.
why not just turn them off? you could also adjust colors and stuff. you could leave on enemy telegraphs if you wanted or any number of options.
Unfortunately, ignorance couldn't be a bliss in this case. Turning them off wouldn't have worked because my problem wasn't just the flashing colors but the whole AoE combat mechanics.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
The reason I quit was the telegraphs. One of the most annoying "innovations" of MMORPG history.
why not just turn them off? you could also adjust colors and stuff. you could leave on enemy telegraphs if you wanted or any number of options.
Well looking at the steam numbers I would say instead of turning telegraphs off people just uninstalled the game.
I doubt this game died because of telegraphs i mean maybe im wrong but that'd be a shitty reason. In the tail end it died because of the endless cycle of "Dead game > New players > losing players > Dead game repeat.
Comments
I was ahead of the leveling curve at launch, so only a handful of players would be leveling in the same hub as me, but grouping together was actually a disadvantage. You moved through quests SO FAST that the odds of being on the same part as someone else was almost none.
I've got the straight edge.
To be honest though, I tried Overwatch and felt the same way. It offers none of the things I'm interested in.
One fails... one is... successful for reasons I don't understand. But that's gaming...
But the portion of MMO players that PvP compared to those that don't is tiny. Hence "niche."
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I disagree with the raid thing though. If you decide that you don't want to raid then the thing below that becomes your good stuff, unless you're not capable of ignoring the top level at all. Are you a millionaire with all the most expensive and hard to get things in the real world? Because if you're not then by your logic you're just living filler content so you might as well not bother living.
I do remember seeing some of the ideas that we had pitched them showing up in one of the relaunches, but they never really grasped the idea overall. They were simply attaching different systems because someone had told them too... rather than integrating them into the design to make them a good fit for the game.
Carbine Studios had some great developers, and a really dedicated team. They just needed some adult supervision who could objectively look at the project, and had not drunk the cool aid. I am a bit sad to see the effort wasted, but that happens more than people realize in this industry.
If I want a world in which people can purchase success and power with cash, I'll play Real Life. Keep Virtual Worlds Virtual!
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Even games like DAoC that achieved respectable numbers in their day for a mostly PvP MMO did it because of their segregation of the PvP into special zones.
Like I said, I play and enjoy a lot of PvP in MMOs but I'm not of the PvP faith so I tend to be more realistic about who we are relative to the whole of MMO fans.
PS: Pantheon and Lucima are also niche but for a different "must group" reason.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Hence why I take 0% seriousness on this forum and post random junk and then once in a while post something serious, cause that is what everyone else does here. And if someone likes an MMO and comes here, they get called a fanboy or a shill rofl.
Both the forums here and reddit mmorpg are filled with MMO haters that shouldn't be on a MMO site, so they troll about how much they hate MMOs lol.
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