Fact check: People say WoW is dying and losing players in BFA

TheScavenger · September 2018

Fact: It is in fact still very popular

Source: These shots taken inside the game itself just minutes ago on Tichondrius, not even peak time/day of play time. This is just one area of the game. Other areas of the game have people everywhere, but I do not feel like having a thread of every single area of multiple parts of that area makes for a good forum post. If this was an actual website article, I would put up a lot more screenshots of how crowded everywhere is.

itsover · September 2018

rule of thumb, never ever everrrrrrrr believe wow is dying, did i say never ever ?

TheScavenger · September 2018

itsover said:

rule of thumb, never ever everrrrrrrr believe wow is dying, did i say never ever ?

yes of course. It is most played and subscribed MMO out there. I just wanted to show proof it actually isn't dead or dying. If people don't believe starter areas are packed, I'll hop on my goblin and take a pic of their place (goblins least played race in the game and even their area is packed).

Viper482 · September 2018

White Knight much?

And look up the term anecdotal evidence....this is not a fact check. I could go in literally any MMO right now and screenshot the most populated hub and call it evidence of healthy population lol. That is what you just did.

The fact is WoW has far too many players to ever "die", but I think the state of the game right now is as bad as it has been in a long time. There is always a crowd you can't please, but the masses are not satisfied with the latest expansion effort, or lack thereof. Blizzard will never release it, but I would bet my left nut they are losing more subs right now than at this point in any expansion.....only a month in.

TheScavenger · September 2018

Viper482 said:

White Knight much?

And look up the term anecdotal evidence....this is not a fact check.

The fact is WoW has far too many players to ever "die", but I think the state of the game right now is as bad as it has been in a long time. There is always a crowd you can't please, but the masses are not satisfied with the latest expansion effort, or lack thereof. Blizzard will never release it, but I would bet my left nut they are losing more subs right now than at this point in any expansion.....only a month in.

Well, I see for my own eyes there are people everywhere.

People in the game are generally having fun (though have complaints like any game will).

I see lots of people everywhere I go, even starter areas are packed (if anyone wants proof of that)

A small group of people who dislike a game come to a forum and post about it and how boring the experience has become, the vast majority just play or quietly disappear.

However, this isn't anecdotal evidence. I see lots of people, it even shows lots of people in the screenshots. Maybe I'll hop on my goblin the least played race on horde (for non-allied races) and show proof even they have lots of people.

No anecdotal evidence when I see proof that the game is filled with people. Most people who say otherwise aren't playing the game, or they are on a low pop server which of course is gonna be a low pop server.

Viper482 · September 2018

TheScavenger said:

Viper482 said:

White Knight much?

And look up the term anecdotal evidence....this is not a fact check.

The fact is WoW has far too many players to ever "die", but I think the state of the game right now is as bad as it has been in a long time. There is always a crowd you can't please, but the masses are not satisfied with the latest expansion effort, or lack thereof. Blizzard will never release it, but I would bet my left nut they are losing more subs right now than at this point in any expansion.....only a month in.

Well, I see for my own eyes there are people everywhere.

People in the game are generally having fun (though have complaints like any game will).

I see lots of people everywhere I go, even starter areas are packed (if anyone wants proof of that)

A small group of people who dislike a game come to a forum and post about it and how boring the experience has become, the vast majority just play or quietly disappear.

However, this isn't anecdotal evidence. I see lots of people, it even shows lots of people in the screenshots. Maybe I'll hop on my goblin the least played race on horde (for non-allied races) and show proof even they have lots of people.

No anecdotal evidence when I see proof that the game is filled with people. Most people who say otherwise aren't playing the game, or they are on a low pop server which of course is gonna be a low pop server.

No really.....you need to look up the term anecdotal evidence, you clearly do not know what this means.

And dude...you do know servers are clustered into phased instances right? You are seeing people in the world from your entire server cluster, which gives the illusion of population.

For the record I do play it and have every class at least 110 including a 120 and a 116. I enjoy the game for the most part, but I have huge gripes only a month into BfA bad enough to seriously question unsubbing earlier than I ever have in an expansion. I am not alone. It took me about a year to get bored with Legion.

Kyleran · September 2018

Fact: WOW will very likely out live me.

Sobering really.

TheScavenger · September 2018

Viper482 said:

TheScavenger said:

Viper482 said:

White Knight much?

And look up the term anecdotal evidence....this is not a fact check.

The fact is WoW has far too many players to ever "die", but I think the state of the game right now is as bad as it has been in a long time. There is always a crowd you can't please, but the masses are not satisfied with the latest expansion effort, or lack thereof. Blizzard will never release it, but I would bet my left nut they are losing more subs right now than at this point in any expansion.....only a month in.

Well, I see for my own eyes there are people everywhere.

People in the game are generally having fun (though have complaints like any game will).

I see lots of people everywhere I go, even starter areas are packed (if anyone wants proof of that)

A small group of people who dislike a game come to a forum and post about it and how boring the experience has become, the vast majority just play or quietly disappear.

However, this isn't anecdotal evidence. I see lots of people, it even shows lots of people in the screenshots. Maybe I'll hop on my goblin the least played race on horde (for non-allied races) and show proof even they have lots of people.

No anecdotal evidence when I see proof that the game is filled with people. Most people who say otherwise aren't playing the game, or they are on a low pop server which of course is gonna be a low pop server.

No really.....you need to look up the term anecdotal evidence, you clearly do not know what this means.

And dude...you do know servers are clustered into phased instances right? You are seeing people in the world from your entire server cluster, which gives the illusion of population.

What does clustered instances have anything to do with it?

GW2 does it, suddenly that means the game is dying despite being in the top 5 MMOs?

ESO does it as well, that too means the game is dying despite being in the top 5 MMOs?

All it does is show people playing the game. And people in the game for most part are enjoying the game, otherwise they wouldn't be playing it. People on forums/reddit tend to go to those places when they aren't happy with the game.

BUT, you can't make everyone happy with every expansion or game.

And the people I see loving the most out of BFA? PvPers by far.

I will admit, PVE experience is bland on alliance and a lot better on Horde. So if you are alliance and see the game is dying or doing bad, maybe that is why you have that perspective. But PVE for horde is great, and PvP on both sides are great.

But I understand not everyone are PvPers, and many PVErs may not like a PvP focused expansion.

Viper482 · September 2018

TheScavenger said:

Viper482 said:

TheScavenger said:

Viper482 said:

White Knight much?

And look up the term anecdotal evidence....this is not a fact check.

The fact is WoW has far too many players to ever "die", but I think the state of the game right now is as bad as it has been in a long time. There is always a crowd you can't please, but the masses are not satisfied with the latest expansion effort, or lack thereof. Blizzard will never release it, but I would bet my left nut they are losing more subs right now than at this point in any expansion.....only a month in.

Well, I see for my own eyes there are people everywhere.

People in the game are generally having fun (though have complaints like any game will).

I see lots of people everywhere I go, even starter areas are packed (if anyone wants proof of that)

A small group of people who dislike a game come to a forum and post about it and how boring the experience has become, the vast majority just play or quietly disappear.

However, this isn't anecdotal evidence. I see lots of people, it even shows lots of people in the screenshots. Maybe I'll hop on my goblin the least played race on horde (for non-allied races) and show proof even they have lots of people.

No anecdotal evidence when I see proof that the game is filled with people. Most people who say otherwise aren't playing the game, or they are on a low pop server which of course is gonna be a low pop server.

No really.....you need to look up the term anecdotal evidence, you clearly do not know what this means.

And dude...you do know servers are clustered into phased instances right? You are seeing people in the world from your entire server cluster, which gives the illusion of population.

What does clustered instances have anything to do with it?

GW2 does it, suddenly that means the game is dying despite being in the top 5 MMOs?

ESO does it as well, that too means the game is dying despite being in the top 5 MMOs?

All it does is show people playing the game. And people in the game for most part are enjoying the game, otherwise they wouldn't be playing it. People on forums/reddit tend to go to those places when they aren't happy with the game.

BUT, you can't make everyone happy with every expansion or game.

And the people I see loving the most out of BFA? PvPers by far.

I will admit, PVE experience is bland on alliance and a lot better on Horde. So if you are alliance and see the game is dying or doing bad, maybe that is why you have that perspective. But PVE for horde is great, and PvP on both sides are great.

But I understand not everyone are PvPers, and many PVErs may not like a PvP focused expansion.

I already said WoW was not dying, so stop straw-manning my argument. You are the one talking about all of the people you see in the world, when it is clustered into phases with multiple servers of course you will see people in the world. It is not an indication the game population is healthy. Dude, aside from all that there are millions of people playing WoW, I have no doubt of that, but that does not mean the game is not decaying slowly based on the crap Blizzard just put out. If they are smart they will fix the crap fast and people will be back on board, if not they will lose a lot of money. Period.

And what are PvPer's loving about BfA? lol. PvP is worse than ever right now and warmode has flopped big time.

Seriously happy for you that you are enjoying BfA, but stop living in a bubble about it.

Wizardry · September 2018

last i played about 2 months ago,i saw people in many zones but i NEVER once,not even my older days saw actual groups,mostly 1-2 people max.
So i assume most grouping is done automated with the lfgDF,so much for a strong community and good tools.
Wow encourages a solo minded player,why bother making a MMO if you encourage people to solo?

So then i look at guild gameplay,most of the time and you can go watch it on Twitch,these players are playing SOLO within a group,they don't seem to have any clue at all on what is going on.If they are a healer,they simply heal,no clue what else is going on.

In the hay days of FFXI,still less players than Wow ever saw there were GROUPS of players in all the zones.In WOw it is 99% soloing in a MMO...sigh,sad design and the rest is a combination of duo/trio and multi boxing.
There is VERY little MMO inside of Wow.The point is why would it matter if there was 5 players or 5 million,there isn't much MMO gaming to be seen.

Thebeasttt · September 2018

WoW could have a mass exodus of 50% of it's playerbase and still be #1 by over a million. The good news is a lot of these shitty clones are finally starting to die. Maybe a decent mmo will finally happen but don't hold your breath obviously.

Wellspring · September 2018

WoW just needs to hang in there long enough for Classic to launch, then they will be saved

Kyleran · September 2018

DMKano said:

I can tell you that the Blizzard just let go over 100 customer support staff that they hired for BfA launch - they only kept a handful. The fact that there are still lots of issues and tickets and yet they cut their contract support staff speaks volumes.

From what I've heard - the expansion didn't quite hit the numbers Blizzard was hoping for - so while yes they made money - it under-performed and didn't meet expectations.

Blizzard still has tons and tons of cash - so no big deal as the company is doing well - but BfA just didn't do that great.

Under-performed eh? Just like most of the OPs threads I guess.

Perhaps people have begun to weary of the lack of anything new?

FrodoFragins · September 2018

DMKano said:

I can tell you that the Blizzard just let go over 100 customer support staff that they hired for BfA launch - they only kept a handful. The fact that there are still lots of issues and tickets and yet they cut their contract support staff speaks volumes.

From what I've heard - the expansion didn't quite hit the numbers Blizzard was hoping for - so while yes they made money - it under-performed and didn't meet expectations.

Blizzard still has tons and tons of cash - so no big deal as the company is doing well - but BfA just didn't do that great.

So what's the deal with their best ever launch day sales numbers for an expansion? How does that jive with it not being as profitable as they wanted? Did they massage the numbers somehow?

Laying off 100 CS sounds more significant than "the expansion didn't quite hit the numbers Blizzard was hoping for". How many of those CS were expected to be short term, as in only during the launch period?

k61977 · September 2018

DMKano said:

I can tell you that the Blizzard just let go over 100 customer support staff that they hired for BfA launch - they only kept a handful. The fact that there are still lots of issues and tickets and yet they cut their contract support staff speaks volumes.

From what I've heard - the expansion didn't quite hit the numbers Blizzard was hoping for - so while yes they made money - it under-performed and didn't meet expectations.

Blizzard still has tons and tons of cash - so no big deal as the company is doing well - but BfA just didn't do that great.

You do realize they do this every xpac. They hire for the initial release the let them go after the rush has died down. In reality almost all companies or at least major gaming companies used to do this.

Hell most don't even have a CS department anymore it seems. You get robots or basic no answer spam sent back to you from most companies.

Overall this game will most likely still be kicking 10 or 15 years from now. It just happen to come along at the right time with the right feel to pull in millions of people.

Anyone that thinks this game is doing bad or going anywhere anytime soon really needs to do a reality check.

Phry · September 2018

FrodoFragins said:

DMKano said:

I can tell you that the Blizzard just let go over 100 customer support staff that they hired for BfA launch - they only kept a handful. The fact that there are still lots of issues and tickets and yet they cut their contract support staff speaks volumes.

From what I've heard - the expansion didn't quite hit the numbers Blizzard was hoping for - so while yes they made money - it under-performed and didn't meet expectations.

Blizzard still has tons and tons of cash - so no big deal as the company is doing well - but BfA just didn't do that great.

So what's the deal with their best ever launch day sales numbers for an expansion? How does that jive with it not being as profitable as they wanted? Did they massage the numbers somehow?

Laying off 100 CS sounds more significant than "the expansion didn't quite hit the numbers Blizzard was hoping for". How many of those CS were expected to be short term, as in only during the launch period?

They were probably all short term hires, the question is, how short term? i don't think the game is dying yet, but i don't think players are as happy with BfA as Blizzard would have liked, there are issues, this is the first time i haven't bought the expac and after watching heelsvsbabyface along with a few others, i think even amongst the hardcore WoW players, there is a significant amount of disatisfaction

FrodoFragins · September 2018

Phry said:

FrodoFragins said:

DMKano said:

I can tell you that the Blizzard just let go over 100 customer support staff that they hired for BfA launch - they only kept a handful. The fact that there are still lots of issues and tickets and yet they cut their contract support staff speaks volumes.

From what I've heard - the expansion didn't quite hit the numbers Blizzard was hoping for - so while yes they made money - it under-performed and didn't meet expectations.

Blizzard still has tons and tons of cash - so no big deal as the company is doing well - but BfA just didn't do that great.

So what's the deal with their best ever launch day sales numbers for an expansion? How does that jive with it not being as profitable as they wanted? Did they massage the numbers somehow?

Laying off 100 CS sounds more significant than "the expansion didn't quite hit the numbers Blizzard was hoping for". How many of those CS were expected to be short term, as in only during the launch period?

They were probably all short term hires, the question is, how short term? i don't think the game is dying yet, but i don't think players are as happy with BfA as Blizzard would have liked, there are issues, this is the first time i haven't bought the expac and after watching heelsvsbabyface along with a few others, i think even amongst the hardcore WoW players, there is a significant amount of disatisfaction

I haven't watched anybody stream this expansion and so I have no idea how the raiders and streamers feel. I have watched some youtube vids, including heelsvsbabyface whose been the harshest, criticizing their biggest blunders though. Legion was the last straw for me though.

Plus the whole Alliance vs. Horde thing never works anyway because they have to design raids that both factions can do. And so that angle was never going to work on me, just as Deathwing and Pandas didn't really do anything for me either.

I wouldn't be surprised if this expansion ends up with the lowest sub count in the west at some point and I hope Classic makes a dent as well.

Albatroes · September 2018

OP, I dont think you understand something very basic and recent blizzard did before BfA even launched. You seem to think that the people you see around are the all the same people on your server, which is very incorrect. Due to warmode's implementation, there's really no longer 'servers' in the sense that you're always grouped with people from your own server, you're now thrown in a randomized pool depending on the area. The only thing you'll notice in terms of 'server' specifics is AH prices. Even main cities are phased depending on population. It sounds great on the servers since it makes it look like ever area you enter is populated, but the real issue with this system becomes very apparent when you have warmode on or if you're trying to hardcore rp I suppose (even admitted by Ion). That is, warmode tries to auto adjust each area for 'balance' so that each faction has the same 'number' when in the same area. Anywhere that doesn't have a lot of auto-phases, this is not as noticeable (mainly areas that dont have world questing). World questing continuously adjust area population as much as it can, however people are continously joining and leaving groups/raids depending on the world quest to the point that the system can't keep up and often leaves areas severely imbalanced if you dont remain your respective groups/raids. Dont even get me started on alts....Fact remains, Blizzard is doing a 'good' job giving the illusion the game is very populated, but the >>> fact <<< remains if it were true, wouldn't they just release population numbers again? I mean Legion was one of the 'best' expansions according to a lot of people, yet population numbers still were never released.

Phry · September 2018

FrodoFragins said:

Phry said:

FrodoFragins said:

DMKano said:

I can tell you that the Blizzard just let go over 100 customer support staff that they hired for BfA launch - they only kept a handful. The fact that there are still lots of issues and tickets and yet they cut their contract support staff speaks volumes.

From what I've heard - the expansion didn't quite hit the numbers Blizzard was hoping for - so while yes they made money - it under-performed and didn't meet expectations.

Blizzard still has tons and tons of cash - so no big deal as the company is doing well - but BfA just didn't do that great.

So what's the deal with their best ever launch day sales numbers for an expansion? How does that jive with it not being as profitable as they wanted? Did they massage the numbers somehow?

Laying off 100 CS sounds more significant than "the expansion didn't quite hit the numbers Blizzard was hoping for". How many of those CS were expected to be short term, as in only during the launch period?

They were probably all short term hires, the question is, how short term? i don't think the game is dying yet, but i don't think players are as happy with BfA as Blizzard would have liked, there are issues, this is the first time i haven't bought the expac and after watching heelsvsbabyface along with a few others, i think even amongst the hardcore WoW players, there is a significant amount of disatisfaction

I haven't watched anybody stream this expansion and so I have no idea how the raiders and streamers feel. I have watched some youtube vids, including heelsvsbabyface whose been the harshest, criticizing their biggest blunders though. Legion was the last straw for me though.

Plus the whole Alliance vs. Horde thing never works anyway because they have to design raids that both factions can do. And so that angle was never going to work on me, just as Deathwing and Pandas didn't really do anything for me either.

I wouldn't be surprised if this expansion ends up with the lowest sub count in the west at some point and I hope Classic makes a dent as well.

At this point my only interest in WoW is for the classic version, BfA for me is a nonestarter and the youtube video's i've watched have only reinforced my preference for WoW classic.

FrodoFragins · September 2018

Phry said:

FrodoFragins said:

Phry said:

FrodoFragins said:

DMKano said:

I can tell you that the Blizzard just let go over 100 customer support staff that they hired for BfA launch - they only kept a handful. The fact that there are still lots of issues and tickets and yet they cut their contract support staff speaks volumes.

From what I've heard - the expansion didn't quite hit the numbers Blizzard was hoping for - so while yes they made money - it under-performed and didn't meet expectations.

Blizzard still has tons and tons of cash - so no big deal as the company is doing well - but BfA just didn't do that great.

So what's the deal with their best ever launch day sales numbers for an expansion? How does that jive with it not being as profitable as they wanted? Did they massage the numbers somehow?

Laying off 100 CS sounds more significant than "the expansion didn't quite hit the numbers Blizzard was hoping for". How many of those CS were expected to be short term, as in only during the launch period?

They were probably all short term hires, the question is, how short term? i don't think the game is dying yet, but i don't think players are as happy with BfA as Blizzard would have liked, there are issues, this is the first time i haven't bought the expac and after watching heelsvsbabyface along with a few others, i think even amongst the hardcore WoW players, there is a significant amount of disatisfaction

I haven't watched anybody stream this expansion and so I have no idea how the raiders and streamers feel. I have watched some youtube vids, including heelsvsbabyface whose been the harshest, criticizing their biggest blunders though. Legion was the last straw for me though.

Plus the whole Alliance vs. Horde thing never works anyway because they have to design raids that both factions can do. And so that angle was never going to work on me, just as Deathwing and Pandas didn't really do anything for me either.

I wouldn't be surprised if this expansion ends up with the lowest sub count in the west at some point and I hope Classic makes a dent as well.

At this point my only interest in WoW is for the classic version, BfA for me is a nonestarter and the youtube video's i've watched have only reinforced my preference for WoW classic.

I recently played a private TBC and enjoyed it, but will wait for blizzcon to decide if I return to a private server. If it's a year or so away then I'll jsut wait - if it's longer I may return to one.

I've actually enjoyed returning to LOTRO. Mordor mobs were overtuned but once I trudged through the first area I had the proper gear to tackle the rest of it.

gervaise1 · September 2018

k61977 said:

DMKano said:

I can tell you that the Blizzard just let go over 100 customer support staff that they hired for BfA launch - they only kept a handful. The fact that there are still lots of issues and tickets and yet they cut their contract support staff speaks volumes.

From what I've heard - the expansion didn't quite hit the numbers Blizzard was hoping for - so while yes they made money - it under-performed and didn't meet expectations.

Blizzard still has tons and tons of cash - so no big deal as the company is doing well - but BfA just didn't do that great.

You do realize they do this every xpac. They hire for the initial release the let them go after the rush has died down. In reality almost all companies or at least major gaming companies used to do this.

Hell most don't even have a CS department anymore it seems. You get robots or basic no answer spam sent back to you from most companies.

Overall this game will most likely still be kicking 10 or 15 years from now. It just happen to come along at the right time with the right feel to pull in millions of people.

Anyone that thinks this game is doing bad or going anywhere anytime soon really needs to do a reality check.

Did you read what @DMKano wrote? Doesn't look like it.

You understand it costs money to get folk in right, even if you use an agency? So if they were going to leave tickets unanswered so soon after launch why bother? And why let them go? There is a simple answer but it may have passed you by.

gervaise1 · September 2018

What a silly billy the OP is!

Here is my <insert game here> screenshot showing a couple of dozen people. Behold this game has millions!

SBFord · September 2018

I'm literally on a high pop server and this is almost an identical screen to yours. "Evidence" like screenshots showing a couple dozen people in any area aren't definitive proof that a game isn't dying. If that were true, then my "evidence" would show otherwise.

That said, I'm not implying that WoW is dying, but its populations aren't nearly as high as they used to be. Add in that the entire game up to BfA is included in a monthly sub without needing to buy anything, and you have pretty good reason why lower end content is "packed".

WoW's still doing well.

Theocritus · September 2018

Kyleran said:

Fact: WOW will very likely out live me.

Sobering really.

I dont know if I'd go that far...Video games come and go and fads change...SUre it has had a great run for 14 years but I really cant guess where it will be in another 14 not to mention the rest of my life.

Kyleran · September 2018

Theocritus said:

Kyleran said:

Fact: WOW will very likely out live me.

Sobering really.

I dont know if I'd go that far...Video games come and go and fads change...SUre it has had a great run for 14 years but I really cant guess where it will be in another 14 not to mention the rest of my life.

When you are my age 14 more years is not a sure thing.

But hey, goals as are good, right?

FrodoFragins · September 2018

WOW has been declining since Cataclysm.

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Fact check: People say WoW is dying and losing players in BFA

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Fact check: People say WoW is dying and losing players in BFA

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Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

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Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV