I am not expecting 7nm AMD CPU parts anytime soon. They are competing for fab resources. For instance Vega was nearly a year after everyone was hoping it would release.
I think the jump to EUV will bring a couple more benefits. CPU prices will drop and less space will be required as the waste should be less doing 1 pass over 4 or more passes.
On this CPU. I think you would have to be dense to buy it. It's way too expensive for a consumer processor that offers a marginal performance benefit verse it's equivalent competitor while using more energy and doesn't even ship with a cooler. Don't buy hardware that's NDA lifts on release day and has a pre-order.
"We have already taped out multiple 7nm products at TSMC, including our first 7nm GPU planned to launch later this year and our first 7nm server CPU that we plan to launch in 2019."
That dates to August, by the way. AMD showed off a GPU on 7 nm in June, so they had silicon then, and surely have a good idea of when it will be ready to launch. For what it's worth, "already taped out" commonly translates to "will probably launch within a year", as that's about how long it takes to go from tape out to launch.
If by "soon", you mean next month, then yeah, that's probably not going to happen. Still, with 12/14 nm, the server chips were based on the same dies as the consumer CPUs, and the latter launched several months sooner. If they do that again, then my best guess for consumer CPUs on 7 nm would be early to mid 2019.
I'm still using gen 2 quad core i5 3.2ghz with 16 G ram, I can pretty much run any game with ultra setting in 1070 ti lol. may be the newer one will help the loading times?
If loading times are the problem, the solution is a solid state drive.
Will it help in 4k gaming? Im planning my next build around 4k gaming. Goal is to sustain 100+ fps at 4k.
The CPU is basically irrelevant to the monitor resolution. For what it's worth, the cheapest 4K monitor with a refresh rate above 60 Hz on New Egg right now costs $2000. I'm not saying that it can't be done, but most 4K monitors can't go over 60 Hz, and 100 frames per second doesn't help you that much if your monitor can only display 60.
For what it's worth, I've been running a higher than 4K resolution at 144 Hz for about three years now. I just do it on three monitors: three 2560x1440 monitors in portrait mode for a combined resolution of 4320x2560. The way to get high frame rates at that resolution is to turn down a lot of settings that push a GPU hard.
Will it help in 4k gaming? Im planning my next build around 4k gaming. Goal is to sustain 100+ fps at 4k.
Actually, I should be more explicit: if you have no problem with spending $1000+ on monitors and also $1000+ on a GPU, and your building a system specifically for gaming, then yes, this is the CPU that you want. For most people, the $580 price tag would rule it out, but if you're going to spend several thousand dollars on a rig, a $580 CPU fits easily.
If you were hoping to build that 4K gaming rig on a much smaller budget, such as under $2000, then you'd best wait a while.
GameByNightHardware and Technology EditorMMORPG.COM Staff, MemberRarePosts: 808
Why not benchmark against a threadripper from AMD. If this the top intel processor then it should be benched against AMD premium line and not the 2700x in my opinion. All this proves is it is still a better value to go with AMD or if you must have intel then an 8700K. Where is the incentive to buy this? Sure there are those who buy the biggest just for sake of having it but nothing here screams buy me now over a Ryzen chip. And again this was not benched vs a threadripper which I would be curious to see the results.
I agree and I wish. We tried to get one in but it wasn't possible and TR is way too expensive for me to buy out of pocket.
HEDT is a different category from mainstream desktop processors entirely. If you ask Intel what their top of the line desktop CPU is, they'd probably point you toward this:
HEDT is a different category from mainstream desktop processors entirely. If you ask Intel what their top of the line desktop CPU is, they'd probably point you toward this:
And they'd add that there's a 28-core version coming.
I think that I9-9900K belongs to the HEDT category as much as it belongs to the mainstream category:
1) It's priced to compete against low end Threadrippers 2) The programs that gain benefit from I9-9900K's high core and thread count are programs that you'd often run on a HEDT system, while games and such gain very little benefit
I9-9900K is not really a HEDT processor, but it's not really a mainstream processor either, it's placed in between.
When thy first released that circular chip, and touting how it was re-inventing the wheel by making everyting better with heat redistribution ... seemed like they couldnt really improve much so they went a different 'route'
So why is it not circular now? Or why hasnt it been for the last 50 years?
I guess they actually made better chips without having to sell something else.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
HEDT (high end desktop) doesn't just mean the price tag. It's a different platform entirely with a different focus. Threadripper 1900X is HEDT and Ryzen 7 2700X isn't, even though they're both 8 cores and the latter clocks higher than the former. But the former has double the memory channels, more than double the PCI Express lanes, and supports massively more memory, among other things.
If you need a desktop with 128 GB of system memory, you look at HEDT. If you need three GPUs with a full PCI Express 3.0 x16 connection to each, you look at HEDT. If you need three M.2 slots, you look at HEDT. And that's all true even if you don't need much performance out of the CPU itself.
Getting a CPU isn't just about the CPU performance. AMD actually sells a couple of EPYC CPUs with only 8 cores and a max turbo of 2.9 GHz, but 8 memory channels and 128 PCI Express lanes coming off of the socket. If all you need is 2 TB of memory, or 30 M.2 slots, or something like that, but not very much CPU performance, there's no need to buy a ton of CPU cores. But a Core i9-9900K would be completely useless if that's what you need because it's the wrong category of product entirely.
Why not benchmark against a threadripper from AMD. If this the top intel processor then it should be benched against AMD premium line and not the 2700x in my opinion. All this proves is it is still a better value to go with AMD or if you must have intel then an 8700K. Where is the incentive to buy this? Sure there are those who buy the biggest just for sake of having it but nothing here screams buy me now over a Ryzen chip. And again this was not benched vs a threadripper which I would be curious to see the results.
I think the critical takeaway from the gaming benchmark chart is that all of the CPUs are really fast. The lowest frame rate on the entire chart is 96 frames per second, which is plenty good enough for just about anything. Some reviews will try to pick games that will give lower frame rates, but that can easily lead to focusing on badly coded games, so that's a bad thing if taken too far.
This is so untrue. 96 fps is way too low for someone who uses high frequency monitor such as a 144hz or even 120hz.
That is a good point, as the only reason to have a 1080 monitor is to have one that is 144hz etc. at least that is if your using it for gaming, which being on this website would be the norm.
Honestly, do people even see the difference between 60, 90 and 120+ fps? Or is it a marketing trick(again)?
As someone who does actually use this setup, the biggest thing is a stable framerate, its the thing that makes the biggest difference. And yes, you can see the difference over 60 fps but its not some amazing eye opener, it just looks a bit crisper (my opinion). But, stability in FPS always trumps it, so many times a game gives me the option to lock its FPS I do so, to 60 to make sure I can run it. D3 is an exception, I run that at 144fps and it looks great.
On a sidenote, I am not an FPS snob, solid 30 FPS games are getting just as much love from me (DS on Switch for instance).
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Honestly, do people even see the difference between 60, 90 and 120+ fps? Or is it a marketing trick(again)?
Very much so, going from 60hz to 120/144hz is night and day. When i sit down to a 60hz monitor everything feels slugish and slow, like it's lagging and there are fps drops and like i'm drunk on top of that, and i can't get used to lower hz/fps for weeks, months.
You can even notice the difference on 165 and 240fps, you won't see it, but you will feel the fidelity in your mouse movements, and your eyes will feel uncomfortable with blur in fast camera movements. And if you drop back down to lover hz/fps, it will feel like latency lag again.
Does not list the important CONS
It runs ridiculously hot,impeding overclocking,a feature that would set is back when compared to the price.
The price is also TOO steep for the bit of performance boost.You need expensive high end cooling systems.
What time has shown me over the years is that "benchmarks" are just a garbage way of seeing your VALUE in the purchase.
You have to spark up your games and then see if it is THAT much better to first warrant the price and secondly,did you even need to make this purchase.Over many years,i have almost NEVER seen the same performance boost in my purchases as the benchmarks and advertising show us.If you are playing Wow,then your an idiot if you buy something like this.Better yet,what are you needing this chip for...anything at all?
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I'm personally waiting til 7nm AMD comes out before I upgrade again unless its delayed til 2020. Then I will just upgrade my 1700 to a 2700X and wait it out. I have had both the 1st gen ryzen (1700, kid has a 1600X and other kid had a 1500X) and a coffee lake cpu(8600K). And to be honest, esp while streaming, the ryzen cpu felt a bit slower but much more consistent. If your goal is epeen highest fps on the block then go right ahead and buy that 9900K, esp if you play games that favor intel. If you want a decent gaming experiance, then buy the ryzen for half the money and be content with a chip that will run 15 other applications while you game with little to no fps hit.
I'm personally waiting til 7nm AMD comes out before I upgrade again unless its delayed til 2020. Then I will just upgrade my 1700 to a 2700X and wait it out. I have had both the 1st gen ryzen (1700, kid has a 1600X and other kid had a 1500X) and a coffee lake cpu(8600K). And to be honest, esp while streaming, the ryzen cpu felt a bit slower but much more consistent. If your goal is epeen highest fps on the block then go right ahead and buy that 9900K, esp if you play games that favor intel. If you want a decent gaming experiance, then buy the ryzen for half the money and be content with a chip that will run 15 other applications while you game with little to no fps hit.
I would expect consumer Zen 2 to launch on 7 nm sometime in 2019, and then Zen 3 to launch on either a 7 nm EUV process or 5 nm sometime in 2020. Of course, the reason I'd expect that is largely because it is what AMD has publicly announced:
After that, it's likely that they move to DDR5, and hence no more Socket AM4 compatibility unless they make a chip with both DDR4 and DDR5 controllers, akin to how the early Phenom II CPUs had both DDR2 and DDR3 controllers. So Zen 4 or Not Zen or whatever they call it will need a new Socket AM5.
I assume Intel's objective with the i9-9900K was to create the "fastest gaming" cpu and in doing so grab headlines. They managed it. Other faster cpus will come along but for they have the headline.
What it won't achieve - because of the price - is a place on any comparison sites "best performance buy".
The "unsung story" though could be that of the i5-9600K. Which may displace the Ryzen 7 2700X.
I assume Intel's objective with the i9-9900K was to create the "fastest gaming" cpu and in doing so grab headlines. They managed it. Other faster cpus will come along but for they have the headline.
If you've got a bunch of engineer employees who design chips for a living, but you can't have them build the 10 nm chips that you want because the process node isn't ready, then what do you do? You don't want to pay them to do nothing. If you ask them to take a year of unpaid leave, you'll have a lot less talent available once the process node is ready. Instead, you have them build what they can on the old process node.
I would say, at this price point, I'm far more interested in a Threadripper 2920X, which is supposed to be available in a few days. 12C/24T 3.5/4.3Ghz for MSRP $649.
Sure, it doesn't have the clock speed, and it won't "game" as fast, but if anything this review shows that most any modern CPU running at a decent clock speed is going to be fast enough, and having 33% more cores/threads (not to mention PCI availability, and vulnerability slowdowns, and whatever else) for a 22% increase in cost (** @MSRP, and AMD chips seem to be more readily available below their MSRP than Intel) seems to be a good buy
If you've got a bunch of engineer employees who design chips for a living, but you can't have them build the 10 nm chips that you want because the process node isn't ready, then what do you do? You don't want to pay them to do nothing. If you ask them to take a year of unpaid leave, you'll have a lot less talent available once the process node is ready. Instead, you have them build what they can on the old process node.
In the big scheme of things the development team costs very little. OK you want to keep a valuable resource occupied but you don't have to go to market with a new design. When you cut metal on a new design is when the serious costs kick in. The manufacturing costs will dwarf the design costs.
They will have gone ahead for multiple reasons. Maybe they wanted to introduce some new process - which they might go on to introduce into their 10nm fab. Whatever. I think the headline; though was probably one of the reasons. As "meaningless" as it is because of the cost headlines generate marketing.
The i5-9600K though might have been a better cpu to review. Faster than and nominally $66 cheaper ($263 vs. $329) than a Ryzen 7 2700X - although you have to factor in the cooler of course and as @Ridelynn says it depends how that plays out when it comes to actual prices. Much more interesting.
Where the i7 version fits - who knows. How fast a cpu do gpu limited gamers need?
I stopped reading comments when I heard 1080P testing is pointless when the whole point is to test the CPU and the Higher FPS on LOW res ramps up the CPU more great for testing those silly high numbers. At 2k, etc res your hardly going be capping your main core on the CPU unless the game was made to do so and most are not.
I stopped reading comments when I heard 1080P testing is pointless when the whole point is to test the CPU and the Higher FPS on LOW res ramps up the CPU more great for testing those silly high numbers. At 2k, etc res your hardly going be capping your main core on the CPU unless the game was made to do so and most are not.
Damn this site gives me cancer.
With a last sentence like that it would be really good to leave then.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Only the 9900 was reviewed but does that mean that the other 2 are good? I am going to be getting a new computer soon. My current is 8 years old. I just figure that I might go for something newer like this since it might be 8 more years before I get another computer.
Comments
"We have already taped out multiple 7nm products at TSMC, including our first 7nm GPU planned to launch later this year and our first 7nm server CPU that we plan to launch in 2019."
That dates to August, by the way. AMD showed off a GPU on 7 nm in June, so they had silicon then, and surely have a good idea of when it will be ready to launch. For what it's worth, "already taped out" commonly translates to "will probably launch within a year", as that's about how long it takes to go from tape out to launch.
If by "soon", you mean next month, then yeah, that's probably not going to happen. Still, with 12/14 nm, the server chips were based on the same dies as the consumer CPUs, and the latter launched several months sooner. If they do that again, then my best guess for consumer CPUs on 7 nm would be early to mid 2019.
For what it's worth, I've been running a higher than 4K resolution at 144 Hz for about three years now. I just do it on three monitors: three 2560x1440 monitors in portrait mode for a combined resolution of 4320x2560. The way to get high frame rates at that resolution is to turn down a lot of settings that push a GPU hard.
If you were hoping to build that 4K gaming rig on a much smaller budget, such as under $2000, then you'd best wait a while.
I agree and I wish. We tried to get one in but it wasn't possible and TR is way too expensive for me to buy out of pocket.
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117836
And they'd add that there's a 28-core version coming.
1) It's priced to compete against low end Threadrippers
2) The programs that gain benefit from I9-9900K's high core and thread count are programs that you'd often run on a HEDT system, while games and such gain very little benefit
I9-9900K is not really a HEDT processor, but it's not really a mainstream processor either, it's placed in between.
When thy first released that circular chip, and touting how it was re-inventing the wheel by making everyting better with heat redistribution ... seemed like they couldnt really improve much so they went a different 'route'
So why is it not circular now? Or why hasnt it been for the last 50 years?
I guess they actually made better chips without having to sell something else.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
If you need a desktop with 128 GB of system memory, you look at HEDT. If you need three GPUs with a full PCI Express 3.0 x16 connection to each, you look at HEDT. If you need three M.2 slots, you look at HEDT. And that's all true even if you don't need much performance out of the CPU itself.
Getting a CPU isn't just about the CPU performance. AMD actually sells a couple of EPYC CPUs with only 8 cores and a max turbo of 2.9 GHz, but 8 memory channels and 128 PCI Express lanes coming off of the socket. If all you need is 2 TB of memory, or 30 M.2 slots, or something like that, but not very much CPU performance, there's no need to buy a ton of CPU cores. But a Core i9-9900K would be completely useless if that's what you need because it's the wrong category of product entirely.
On a sidenote, I am not an FPS snob, solid 30 FPS games are getting just as much love from me (DS on Switch for instance).
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
You can even notice the difference on 165 and 240fps, you won't see it, but you will feel the fidelity in your mouse movements, and your eyes will feel uncomfortable with blur in fast camera movements. And if you drop back down to lover hz/fps, it will feel like latency lag again.
It runs ridiculously hot,impeding overclocking,a feature that would set is back when compared to the price.
The price is also TOO steep for the bit of performance boost.You need expensive high end cooling systems.
What time has shown me over the years is that "benchmarks" are just a garbage way of seeing your VALUE in the purchase.
You have to spark up your games and then see if it is THAT much better to first warrant the price and secondly,did you even need to make this purchase.Over many years,i have almost NEVER seen the same performance boost in my purchases as the benchmarks and advertising show us.If you are playing Wow,then your an idiot if you buy something like this.Better yet,what are you needing this chip for...anything at all?
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
https://images.anandtech.com/doci/12233/x86_to_2020.jpg
After that, it's likely that they move to DDR5, and hence no more Socket AM4 compatibility unless they make a chip with both DDR4 and DDR5 controllers, akin to how the early Phenom II CPUs had both DDR2 and DDR3 controllers. So Zen 4 or Not Zen or whatever they call it will need a new Socket AM5.
What it won't achieve - because of the price - is a place on any comparison sites "best performance buy".
The "unsung story" though could be that of the i5-9600K. Which may displace the Ryzen 7 2700X.
Sure, it doesn't have the clock speed, and it won't "game" as fast, but if anything this review shows that most any modern CPU running at a decent clock speed is going to be fast enough, and having 33% more cores/threads (not to mention PCI availability, and vulnerability slowdowns, and whatever else) for a 22% increase in cost (** @MSRP, and AMD chips seem to be more readily available below their MSRP than Intel) seems to be a good buy
If I were in that market.
In the big scheme of things the development team costs very little. OK you want to keep a valuable resource occupied but you don't have to go to market with a new design. When you cut metal on a new design is when the serious costs kick in. The manufacturing costs will dwarf the design costs.
They will have gone ahead for multiple reasons. Maybe they wanted to introduce some new process - which they might go on to introduce into their 10nm fab. Whatever. I think the headline; though was probably one of the reasons. As "meaningless" as it is because of the cost headlines generate marketing.
The i5-9600K though might have been a better cpu to review. Faster than and nominally $66 cheaper ($263 vs. $329) than a Ryzen 7 2700X - although you have to factor in the cooler of course and as @Ridelynn says it depends how that plays out when it comes to actual prices. Much more interesting.
Where the i7 version fits - who knows. How fast a cpu do gpu limited gamers need?
Damn this site gives me cancer.
SNIP
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer