I think the shooting of that rabid dog Greymane would be a good starting point.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
He is the only Alliance character that isn't completely devoid of flaws, though.
Anduin - worst flaw is what, the teenage king is inexperienced?
Jaina - even her "mistake" was a John Lennon "give peace a chance" kind of thing iirc
Velen - the dude is literally the embodiment of the Light.
Alleria - you mean the one being in the lore that chills with void beings and make deals with them, without ever failing to completely control said Void?
Tyrande? Ha!
Malfurion? LMA fuck he's perfect O.
I agree with Suzie; Halford damn Wyrmbane would make for a more interesting character than those above. Wyrmbane would at least be good for a few genuine chuckles at his gung-ho "CALL IN THE ARTILLERY!" General Patton personality.
Genn at least could be written to have real and damaging character flaws, but instead they had him join the Boy Scouts with Anduin, and now he's all "we can do this if we just stick TOGETHER!"
just a little heads up, if you think the story of a MMO is what make people play it, you are as clueless as blizzard is
I think the shooting of that rabid dog Greymane would be a good starting point.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
He is the only Alliance character that isn't completely devoid of flaws, though.
Anduin - worst flaw is what, the teenage king is inexperienced?
Jaina - even her "mistake" was a John Lennon "give peace a chance" kind of thing iirc
Velen - the dude is literally the embodiment of the Light.
Alleria - you mean the one being in the lore that chills with void beings and make deals with them, without ever failing to completely control said Void?
Tyrande? Ha!
Malfurion? LMA fuck he's perfect O.
I agree with Suzie; Halford damn Wyrmbane would make for a more interesting character than those above. Wyrmbane would at least be good for a few genuine chuckles at his gung-ho "CALL IN THE ARTILLERY!" General Patton personality.
Genn at least could be written to have real and damaging character flaws, but instead they had him join the Boy Scouts with Anduin, and now he's all "we can do this if we just stick TOGETHER!"
just a little heads up, if you think the story of a MMO is what make people play it, you are as clueless as blizzard is
Close down. Just run a vanilla F2P no strings attached but perks and cross marketing other games like live in game Hearth stone amtches linked to your hearth stone account.
Charge xpansions in cash shop. With more cash goodies non p2W.
Watch your population quadruple, servers crash like it is 1999 due to huge success, and watch revenue pick up.... or stay ignorant and cater to the chineese market.
just a little heads up, if you think the story of a MMO is what make people play it, you are as clueless as blizzard is
Let me correct that for you, "If you think the story of a MMO is what make[s] ME play it, you are clueless in my opinion".
Just because you don't care for it isn't "everyone". Even if just 5% of the population cares (and I think it's higher than that by a lot), that's enough to justify a better story than we've been given. Besides, Blizzard makes a point of catering to teeny player populations like raiders and hardcore PvPers.
they need to stop acting like the postal service where i live. = everytime there's a new one in charge they "fix" what isn't broken and make it 10 times worse. except Blizz does this with every damn expansion. they truly believe in the "they'll get bored if we don't" mantra some egghead over there started.
if gameplay feels good everything else will aswell.
I literally stay subscribed because I found a guild that I enjoy raiding with. But it's pretty much hop on, do some WQ's for my alts, and wait for raid day.
Good article. So sad, I miss the old WOW game before Cataclysm. I still get the itch to play.... but just can't do it since the game became so.......incomplete.
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
I see so many people always talking about why they quite put their finger on why the game is just lacking or can't hold people's attention for more than a few months.
The simple answer is Blizzard traded community for accessibility. It has been this way since the end of Wrath when they started to introduce LFD/LFR.
I'm not going to get into detail as to why, since this has been talked about to death. I just think those systems laid the foundation for other changes that did a lot of harm to the game.
Close down. Just run a vanilla F2P no strings attached but perks and cross marketing other games like live in game Hearth stone amtches linked to your hearth stone account.
Charge xpansions in cash shop. With more cash goodies non p2W.
Watch your population quadruple, servers crash like it is 1999 due to huge success, and watch revenue pick up.... or stay ignorant and cater to the chineese market.
uh stfu with your vanilla wow. why would we want to screw 14 years of development? bc some cry babies don't like em?
sorry, but those who play like em.
uh and for those who don't like it, as always, over there is the door. bye.
you want classic servers? pathetic, you have NO idea what you ask for there.
what exactly do you want? those 3 instances or that one raid where you actually had to farm for several months so you could enter and fight the firelord for real?
most of you guys would INSTANTLY start crying with the ammount of grind needed to put your weapon skills to the reqiured lvl alone.
If Blizzard opted to screw 14 years of development it would be because of money. I agree with you though "closing" the current version of WoW isn't something they should do. Nor do I see them doing it. There are people who play current WoW and enjoy it and they shouldn't just be "dumped".
That said Blizzard are going to launch vanilla - whatever that means. Vanilla will have an impact on current WoW - based on every single game that has gone down this road previously; some current players will leave current WoW and some will stay with vanilla, some will return to current and some will unsub. There will be an impact though.
And so Blizzard will have two versions of WoW running and a decision to make. Do they: - launch vanilla, never touch it again and go back to pushing out expansions for current? - launch vanilla and support both versions, new expansions for each on alternate years? - launch vanilla, leave current WoW as is, and do expansions for the vanilla?
Wouldn't surprise me if they are trying to hold off on making a decision.
Blizzard only cares about 1 thing... subscriptions. They don't care what game you are playing so long as you are still paying a subscription.
They already said Classic WoW will NOT include any expansions. It will be 1-60 and that's it. So there is no maintaining one over the other. They also said they weren't going to have a bunch of servers either. It is not going to replace an expansion in the expansion cycle, more likely be like Diablo... released during an existing expansion.
If Classic ever killed WoW, it would be because Blizzard did the ultimate fuck up in their current expansion. Totally possible considering their track record as of late.
Classic won't save WoW any more than a new expansion will. They've given us a lot of reasons to leave lately... very few reasons to stay... and lets' not forget the whole hardware upgrade fiasco that came with BfA that didn't improve the game, just screwed it up.
BfA is what it is. It's not going to get better... just less worse. That's all they can even hope to give you and surely why they will put all focus on anything and everything NOT BfA at Blizzcon this year.
Oh I know what Blizzard have said. Same as they said there would be no vanilla etc.
However I agree totally with your opening line: Blizzard only care about: subs i.e. money.
So if - IF - the demand is there (and is maintained) then I am certain Blizzard will say that they have "listened" to what the players want and .... expansions etc. will follow.
"In an alternative universe the struggle for supremacy between Horde and Alliance played out very differently. Now you can take part in the heroic struggle ........ "
I think the shooting of that rabid dog Greymane would be a good starting point.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
He is the only Alliance character that isn't completely devoid of flaws, though.
Anduin - worst flaw is what, the teenage king is inexperienced?
Jaina - even her "mistake" was a John Lennon "give peace a chance" kind of thing iirc
Velen - the dude is literally the embodiment of the Light.
Alleria - you mean the one being in the lore that chills with void beings and make deals with them, without ever failing to completely control said Void?
Tyrande? Ha!
Malfurion? LMA fuck he's perfect O.
I agree with Suzie; Halford damn Wyrmbane would make for a more interesting character than those above. Wyrmbane would at least be good for a few genuine chuckles at his gung-ho "CALL IN THE ARTILLERY!" General Patton personality.
Genn at least could be written to have real and damaging character flaws, but instead they had him join the Boy Scouts with Anduin, and now he's all "we can do this if we just stick TOGETHER!"
just a little heads up, if you think the story of a MMO is what make people play it, you are as clueless as blizzard is
The story is what keeps me coming back after all this time. Despite the ups and downs, I'm gonna keep with it until the end just to see how it turns out.
also everyone likes Saurfang….even the alliance view him in a favorable light.
Not everyone. I'm one of them. Frankly, the fact that the Allies love him and he's cozied up to SI:7 makes me abhor him.
I loved Saurfang in Northrend and even at Crossroads during Legion's pre-event when he led the forces against the Legion but they have assassinated his character as much as any other, Sylvanas included. It is one thing for her to be "self-serving" and so forth, but a whole different ball of wax to become mustache twirlingly evil for the sake of evil. It's just stupid villain batting and it feels bad. I'm sick of hearing the "honor, honor, honor" crap from everyone. It's as bad as hearing "light, light, light" from Allies. Far, far too unidimensional. What made Horde exciting and interesting was that it wasn't so cut-and-dried and that it had differences on the outlook on life and everything else between races. Boring homogenization is boring.
Look at the story through the lens of Allies attacking Undercity first. When you do, the rest of the story makes a LOT more sense. As it came to us at launch, it's a convoluted pile of manure.
the alliance love him because for many vanilla players he was the first raid level mob to murder them in the early days via city raids and the hardest hitting mob for a long while. its a nostalgia thing not a lore thing(although he was combined leader for AQ stuff too which was huge event at the time.)
also you should be careful of your dislike of him....he may cleave our universe out of existence in response.
At launch I was very excited about the story and lore, which really felt like a return to the core Warcraft III, Vanilla WoW, and WotLK lore. I love the return of Jaina, Sylvanis and the Forsaken.
But the rep grind and lame Azerite trait system were enough reason for me to stop playing two weeks ago. I let my sub lapse yesterday and have zero interest in BfA until Blizzard starts listening to their players.
I have a better chance of the financial institutions I deal with of listening. That's quite sad.
With all the stellar new single player game releases, like Pathfinder: Kingdoms and Red Dead Redemption, I won't be wasting any more time on BfA.
As to what is it about the game that makes you say that. I am perplexed as to your conclusion.
Sorry. Better: internally WoW won't utilise the latest "software / management / finance / QA / design etc. stuff". They will - over time - have been upgrading said stuff e.g. moving to better server tech say - but some of the "stuff" will be hard to upgrade and at the end of the day it costs money, time and effort. Which comes back to projections, trends and financial payback.
I think the shooting of that rabid dog Greymane would be a good starting point.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
He is the only Alliance character that isn't completely devoid of flaws, though.
Anduin - worst flaw is what, the teenage king is inexperienced?
Jaina - even her "mistake" was a John Lennon "give peace a chance" kind of thing iirc
Velen - the dude is literally the embodiment of the Light.
Alleria - you mean the one being in the lore that chills with void beings and make deals with them, without ever failing to completely control said Void?
Tyrande? Ha!
Malfurion? LMA fuck he's perfect O.
I agree with Suzie; Halford damn Wyrmbane would make for a more interesting character than those above. Wyrmbane would at least be good for a few genuine chuckles at his gung-ho "CALL IN THE ARTILLERY!" General Patton personality.
Genn at least could be written to have real and damaging character flaws, but instead they had him join the Boy Scouts with Anduin, and now he's all "we can do this if we just stick TOGETHER!"
Nah, he should get shot. A nice second would be Anduin though....
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
I'll barge in, but I think story is the deciding factor in an MMO's appeal; nice graphics and animations can support this appeal, but if the setting is lifeless and unimaginative, or outright awkward, there is no long-term lure for players (whether they realize it or not themselves).
I played for about 2 weeks, I think I got one character to level 114 maybe?
1. Combat did feel slow, and as such just kind of... dated. Even in Legion and Warlords etc. the combat still felt fluid and you pressed enough buttons to keep things interesting, but I definitely agree that in BfA the changes made really slowed things down to the point of tedium. Kind of like early days of BC with a Paladin spending the first like 20 levels auto-attacking!
2. Story was good, interesting, and overall the quests were varied and the use of VO and cinematics much improved... but at what cost? I still feel like there are TOO many quests. I like that each zone has a story arc that is fairly linear, but it needs to be shortened. I would prefer to see a single well crafted story line through a zone, and then you're done, moving on to the next zone. Then, once you are at level cap, you can revisit zones for side quests and additional story/quest hubs as a part of the "end-game" content that is completely optional.
3. They really did neuter itemization and customization for years now. Way too simple. Between talents and gear changes, it's just.. too simple, too clean. I definitely agree that secondary stats and crafting perks and enchanting etc. are all needed, but the real killing point for me is the talent trees. There are no trees anymore. Sure, back in Vanilla there was 1 path for optimum performance, but instead of trying to balance and expand/fix that, they just dropped it entirely and gave us a over-simplified "pick one of three" and that's never been a good thing.
4. Catch up. I really wanted to play my Warrior more than my Paladin, but my Warrior was only level 100 and my Paladin was my only toon at 110 before BfA hit. I think it was a mistake to not include a Legion-invasion like event to catch up old characters to the cap and with gear before the next xpac hits. I feel that should be a requirement for every new expac.
5. Open world. World quests are OK, get people back into the world, but overall the game just feels like a bunch of check boxes to click every day/week without real character or adventure.
At the moment, the only thing i can see that would increase subscriber numbers for BfA, is if they included Classic WoW in the subscription, it wouldn't boost player numbers for BfA, but it would at least give people a reason to play WoW and pay a subscription again.
I'll barge in, but I think story is the deciding factor in an MMO's appeal; nice graphics and animations can support this appeal, but if the setting is lifeless and unimaginative, or outright awkward, there is no long-term lure for players (whether they realize it or not themselves).
I think there's a feedback effect that goes both ways.
Warframe launched with almost no real coherent "narrative" in any specific sense, but gameplay made it fun enough to play without a lore reason to be engaging in the activities you were engaging in as Tenno.
Otoh, games like Fallout 3 release relatively riddled with bugs, but the narrative and world exploration makes it worth working through those bugs.
Narrative and gameplay can both be important parts of the whole, but it also depends upon the developer's vision for their title, specifically the gameplay and narrative and how they interact. Blizzard isn't getting either one right atm.
Wrong IMO. Every expansion everyone just looks at the new features and how they just suck when the fact is Blizzard needs to go back to basics. They have basically stuck to the same WotLK formula since then. All theyve done is add features on top of it, maybe change a few old ones but the core of the game has been the same since. Its stale... it brings zero sense of wonder, scale, or achievement. You can explore and be done with an entire map in a day, two max. You can clear an entire town of content without knowing a thing about it. Meanwhile youre basically just playing "quest hub hop-scotch" until you reach cap and start playing dungeon queues, token collecting, and speed run pugs, until youre finally able to ... well ... do exactly the same thing in Raids.
Sad part is WoW is probably the only game out there that cant really go back without risking going under. Theyve basically built their entire playerbase on that kind of audience over the last 10+ years. Its what theyre known for now and "going back to basics" will probably piss off and lose a lot more of their remaining players than itll bring back in the same time span.
Maybe (big MAYBE) if Vanilla remake does really well a light will go off in their heads and itll get the ball rolling.
Its very simple for me , Make comabt fun again , its very boring now , builds are boring now , encounters are boring now beacause of it , every encounter feels the same.... Boring imo
I dont know if its possible and they most likely would never do it , but revert skill trees back to WOTLK ...That would at least fix my 3 biggest complaints
It all comes down to the horrible decisions by the Blizzard team in the destruction of any choice in defining your class. This design is primarily because Blizzard is so focused on balancing the classes they have driven class differentiation into oblivion. Removing about 99% of the fun in the game.
It is no wonder people are clamoring for the original Wow, you actually had choices then. This current expansion is a complete joke.
It really is amazing to see the amount of negativity regarding this xpac. While I certainly see the faults and agree about the lack of new abilities in recent xpacs, I am having a blast. Yesterday I hit a bit of a lull in terms of BFA content and needed a break, so I rolled a new alt and was instantly immersed in other eras of content. WoW is soooo massive, that you can explore other areas and enter a new atmosphere. Regardless, I am excited to see where the lore goes and what the future for this xpac is. If it doesn't improve, classic will be a temporary escape from it for those of you who aren't happy :P
Seriously? You are content on the abysmal character design? The constant repetition of the same old, same old, with no chance of ever changing how you play? Does not take much to satisfy you.
Comments
1). The game won't have any new player.
2). Old players are leaving.
Enough with the F2P and handouts god damn.
Just because you don't care for it isn't "everyone". Even if just 5% of the population cares (and I think it's higher than that by a lot), that's enough to justify a better story than we've been given. Besides, Blizzard makes a point of catering to teeny player populations like raiders and hardcore PvPers.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
if gameplay feels good everything else will aswell.
I had fun once, it was terrible.
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
The simple answer is Blizzard traded community for accessibility. It has been this way since the end of Wrath when they started to introduce LFD/LFR.
I'm not going to get into detail as to why, since this has been talked about to death. I just think those systems laid the foundation for other changes that did a lot of harm to the game.
However I agree totally with your opening line: Blizzard only care about: subs i.e. money.
So if - IF - the demand is there (and is maintained) then I am certain Blizzard will say that they have "listened" to what the players want and .... expansions etc. will follow.
"In an alternative universe the struggle for supremacy between Horde and Alliance played out very differently. Now you can take part in the heroic struggle ........ "
Read more at https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/477059/what-world-of-warcraft-battle-for-azeroth-needs-to-succeed-mmorpg-com/p2#sayWkUpTTlZ4P82S.99
also you should be careful of your dislike of him....he may cleave our universe out of existence in response.
But the rep grind and lame Azerite trait system were enough reason for me to stop playing two weeks ago. I let my sub lapse yesterday and have zero interest in BfA until Blizzard starts listening to their players.
I have a better chance of the financial institutions I deal with of listening. That's quite sad.
With all the stellar new single player game releases, like Pathfinder: Kingdoms and Red Dead Redemption, I won't be wasting any more time on BfA.
Better: internally WoW won't utilise the latest "software / management / finance / QA / design etc. stuff". They will - over time - have been upgrading said stuff e.g. moving to better server tech say - but some of the "stuff" will be hard to upgrade and at the end of the day it costs money, time and effort. Which comes back to projections, trends and financial payback.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
I played for about 2 weeks, I think I got one character to level 114 maybe?
1. Combat did feel slow, and as such just kind of... dated. Even in Legion and Warlords etc. the combat still felt fluid and you pressed enough buttons to keep things interesting, but I definitely agree that in BfA the changes made really slowed things down to the point of tedium. Kind of like early days of BC with a Paladin spending the first like 20 levels auto-attacking!
2. Story was good, interesting, and overall the quests were varied and the use of VO and cinematics much improved... but at what cost? I still feel like there are TOO many quests. I like that each zone has a story arc that is fairly linear, but it needs to be shortened. I would prefer to see a single well crafted story line through a zone, and then you're done, moving on to the next zone. Then, once you are at level cap, you can revisit zones for side quests and additional story/quest hubs as a part of the "end-game" content that is completely optional.
3. They really did neuter itemization and customization for years now. Way too simple. Between talents and gear changes, it's just.. too simple, too clean. I definitely agree that secondary stats and crafting perks and enchanting etc. are all needed, but the real killing point for me is the talent trees. There are no trees anymore. Sure, back in Vanilla there was 1 path for optimum performance, but instead of trying to balance and expand/fix that, they just dropped it entirely and gave us a over-simplified "pick one of three" and that's never been a good thing.
4. Catch up. I really wanted to play my Warrior more than my Paladin, but my Warrior was only level 100 and my Paladin was my only toon at 110 before BfA hit. I think it was a mistake to not include a Legion-invasion like event to catch up old characters to the cap and with gear before the next xpac hits. I feel that should be a requirement for every new expac.
5. Open world. World quests are OK, get people back into the world, but overall the game just feels like a bunch of check boxes to click every day/week without real character or adventure.
Warframe launched with almost no real coherent "narrative" in any specific sense, but gameplay made it fun enough to play without a lore reason to be engaging in the activities you were engaging in as Tenno.
Otoh, games like Fallout 3 release relatively riddled with bugs, but the narrative and world exploration makes it worth working through those bugs.
Narrative and gameplay can both be important parts of the whole, but it also depends upon the developer's vision for their title, specifically the gameplay and narrative and how they interact. Blizzard isn't getting either one right atm.
Sad part is WoW is probably the only game out there that cant really go back without risking going under. Theyve basically built their entire playerbase on that kind of audience over the last 10+ years. Its what theyre known for now and "going back to basics" will probably piss off and lose a lot more of their remaining players than itll bring back in the same time span.
Maybe (big MAYBE) if Vanilla remake does really well a light will go off in their heads and itll get the ball rolling.
It is no wonder people are clamoring for the original Wow, you actually had choices then. This current expansion is a complete joke.