Fallout 76 Players Given Lifetime Ban for Homophobic Attacks

Keller · December 2018

First rule of the internet should be: "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything."

Glad Bethesda did something about it. Hopefully they can also do something when people didn't record their incidents.

klash2def · December 2018

Slapshot1188 said:

klash2def said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Edit: A rando white kid screaming "die you fucking nworder" in my ear every ten seconds isn't even close to satire. It's hate speech. Please don't ever use that lame attempt ever again in your life.

I always wonder when I read stuff like this how you know it's a white kid and how they know you are black?

Nobody online has the slightest idea what race or races I am... and while I certainly find the random idiot I never face anything close to what you describe.

I'm basing my ear off the voice. I work in audio for a living. I understand timbre and tones and I used to work with kids. we are not going to sit here and pretend like lingo and dialects aren't a real thing. I can tell when I'm talking to a white kid or a black kid. Also being black, when I hear those things, I ALWAYS ask "Hey what racial ethnicity are you?" When its racial I always ask to make sure I'm right and 9/10 I'm right. A few times it was other than white but never black kids saying shit like that. Its not the black kids online saying die "nworder" die over and over dude.

Sorry but this is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

You know, I personally have gamed with the same group since DAOC launched and I honestly have no idea what race some of them are. Sometimes their characters are white, sometimes they are black, sometimes they are asian and sometimes they are elven/dwarven/alien. I do not know if any of them are gay (do know some are straight as they refer to their wives...). Because none of that matters. We are simply a group of friends.

We have been on voice chat for over 17 years.

It must be horrible to live in a world where every single thing is seen through a perspective of what category someone can be put in.

You are right about one thing, it is horrible to live in a world where every single thing is seen through a perspective of what category someone can be put in. Its also horrible to be put into a category against your own will. I didn't make any of these concepts, I report on the reality of said concepts.

For instance, being a 6ft3 200pd athletically built black man with dreads like myself. I cant help what I look like but guess what, the police still treat me like a criminal for walking around my mainly "white" neighborhood. These are the constructs put into the world by a certain group of people. Newsflash, it wasn't my ancestors making the American laws hundreds of years ago.

You do the "I dont see color" shit when really you need to see color and treat everyone equally from that point of view. There is color in the world and its beautiful. Stop trying to hide from reality because it makes you uncomfortable.

Good for you and your friends that you have no idea what race they are because you don't see color.

Its important to see color to fully understand and appreciate what people are. Gamer isn't a race of people its a hobby. Those people you play with are more than their avatars. They are people. That's the beautiful thing about Earth.

Kyleran · December 2018

parrotpholk said:

Grunty said:

parrotpholk said:

Grunty said:

You can either stay in a bubble and let asshats take over society or you can toughen up, call them out for their behavior and ostracize and ban them in order to help make the best of the life you and other non-asshats have to live.

That ban hammer isn't heavy enough.

Without getting overly political or preachy I disagree.

Everyone needs to have a thick skin and cannot get offended by every poor attempt at humor out there. To ostracize and ban is what the people claiming to be persecuted are fighting against so you would propose to have the same behavior in return because you believe whatever it is on your end.

This is the problem with the world in that there is now zero tolerance for any opinion that it is not your own. So instead of creating acceptance and tolerance you have created the ultimate intolerance. People need to grow up and move on instead of thinking they can change every individuals way of thinking. World is full of individuals and they are every single one entitled to their personal views and the expression of those views. You may not agree with them but it is their right. I am not a fan of bigots or the antifa crowd but both have the same right to have their views. If both ends would accept that and move on then the world would be better. Instead we get riots and violence in the streets.

Somewhere along the line people actually came to thing that their views and beliefs trumped someone elses which is a shame. It kills diversity and does not promote it.

/rant off

I can accept some behavior from friends because I know where they are coming from. I will not accept that behavior from people who are not my friends.

Having been sexually assaulted twice in my lifetime there is some behavior I will not accept from anyone.

Somewhat hypocritical that you are fine with your friends doing it but not someone else so I would be lying if I was to say I understand that. You take time to understand behavior from one group over another.

I would never advocate for sexual abuse or violence of any kind though against someone. We are talking about words and someones bad attempt at humor and if they should get a lifetime ban for that in an online environment. That is a big difference between that and assault.

Surely you understand friends can say things in jest to each other which are inappropriate to say to a complete stranger right?

Or that comedians of a particular ethnicity can make stereotypical jokes of their own "people" whereas someone not a member of the same group cannot.

For example, I am an "older" person, I can get away with telling funny stories about other older people without offending many, even in my own age group. Should a 20 something do the same people would bristle.....

Just the weird way humor works and why it often gets misunderstood when taken the wrong way.

Also why in business writing its always recommended to leave attempts at humor out, too often is not received well.

Far too many fistfights have been started over, "hey, I was only joking."

asdfsdf34534 · December 2018

Good, I don't get why game devs put up with any of that shit.

cheyane · December 2018

nickiamx said:

Good, I don't get why game devs put up with any of that shit.

You're confusing me with that avatar thought you were @thunderC

Phry · December 2018

Kyleran said:

ceratop001 said:

I have a controversial different take on this. I'm for not banning anyone. If you can't handle words you are way to sensitive. I'm not politically correct. PvP should be ruthless and crazy. Let all things happen. Good or bad people are who they are. I feel today's younger generation is way too sensitive and needs to toughen up a bit. I love it when players can say what they want and do what they want. It makes PvP more exciting and tactical. Words can't hurt you. They are just words and you can ignore it.

Cheers...

Let's make it even more exciting and require players to post their real life names and addresses so they never know who might show up for some "real PVP."

What, no? Man up boyo.

If you are an Eve player you have an unfair advantage, its not a decent fight if there aren't thousands involved

Games and Reality are two very different things, i prefer my favourite hobby remains free from IRL contamination, god only knows how bad things would truly become if we don't.

JeffSpicoli · December 2018

Did anyone hear about the B list actor who has banned from instagram for Cat shaming ? lol Political Correctness, Slippery Slope ?

Slapshot1188 · December 2018

klash2def said:

Slapshot1188 said:

klash2def said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Edit: A rando white kid screaming "die you fucking nworder" in my ear every ten seconds isn't even close to satire. It's hate speech. Please don't ever use that lame attempt ever again in your life.

I always wonder when I read stuff like this how you know it's a white kid and how they know you are black?

Nobody online has the slightest idea what race or races I am... and while I certainly find the random idiot I never face anything close to what you describe.

I'm basing my ear off the voice. I work in audio for a living. I understand timbre and tones and I used to work with kids. we are not going to sit here and pretend like lingo and dialects aren't a real thing. I can tell when I'm talking to a white kid or a black kid. Also being black, when I hear those things, I ALWAYS ask "Hey what racial ethnicity are you?" When its racial I always ask to make sure I'm right and 9/10 I'm right. A few times it was other than white but never black kids saying shit like that. Its not the black kids online saying die "nworder" die over and over dude.

Sorry but this is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

You know, I personally have gamed with the same group since DAOC launched and I honestly have no idea what race some of them are. Sometimes their characters are white, sometimes they are black, sometimes they are asian and sometimes they are elven/dwarven/alien. I do not know if any of them are gay (do know some are straight as they refer to their wives...). Because none of that matters. We are simply a group of friends.

We have been on voice chat for over 17 years.

It must be horrible to live in a world where every single thing is seen through a perspective of what category someone can be put in.

You are right about one thing, it is horrible to live in a world where every single thing is seen through a perspective of what category someone can be put in. Its also horrible to be put into a category against your own will. I didn't make any of these concepts, I report on the reality of said concepts.

For instance, being a 6ft3 athletically built black man with dreads like myself. I cant help what I look like but guess what, the police still treat me like a criminal for walking around my mainly "white" neighborhood. These are the constructs put into the world by a certain group of people. Newsflash, it wasn't my ancestors making the American laws hundreds of years ago.

You do the "I dont see color" shit when really you need to see color and treat everyone equally from that point of view. There is color in the world and its beautiful. Stop trying to hide from reality because it makes you uncomfortable.

Good for you and your friends that you have no idea what race they are because you don't see color.

Its important to see color to fully understand and appreciate what people are. Gamer isn't a race of people its a hobby. Those people you play with are more than their avatars. They are people. That's the beautiful thing about Earth.

My point is that... in the online world NOBODY needs to know what "category" people put us into in real life. Nobody sees what color you are or know what sexuality you are or religion or anything else.

It's like the scene from The Empire Strikes Back where Luke goes into the cave and asks whats inside. Yoda responds "Only what you take with you".

I prefer not to focus on our differences but rather on our similarities. And that is really, really easy to do in an online world when compared to the real world where like you say... as soon as someone looks at you they immediately see one or more categories that they might put you in.

In an online world.. as Yoda said.. what's inside is "Only what you take with you"

cheyane · December 2018

Slapshot1188 said:

klash2def said:

Slapshot1188 said:

klash2def said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Edit: A rando white kid screaming "die you fucking nworder" in my ear every ten seconds isn't even close to satire. It's hate speech. Please don't ever use that lame attempt ever again in your life.

I always wonder when I read stuff like this how you know it's a white kid and how they know you are black?

Nobody online has the slightest idea what race or races I am... and while I certainly find the random idiot I never face anything close to what you describe.

I'm basing my ear off the voice. I work in audio for a living. I understand timbre and tones and I used to work with kids. we are not going to sit here and pretend like lingo and dialects aren't a real thing. I can tell when I'm talking to a white kid or a black kid. Also being black, when I hear those things, I ALWAYS ask "Hey what racial ethnicity are you?" When its racial I always ask to make sure I'm right and 9/10 I'm right. A few times it was other than white but never black kids saying shit like that. Its not the black kids online saying die "nworder" die over and over dude.

Sorry but this is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

You know, I personally have gamed with the same group since DAOC launched and I honestly have no idea what race some of them are. Sometimes their characters are white, sometimes they are black, sometimes they are asian and sometimes they are elven/dwarven/alien. I do not know if any of them are gay (do know some are straight as they refer to their wives...). Because none of that matters. We are simply a group of friends.

We have been on voice chat for over 17 years.

It must be horrible to live in a world where every single thing is seen through a perspective of what category someone can be put in.

You are right about one thing, it is horrible to live in a world where every single thing is seen through a perspective of what category someone can be put in. Its also horrible to be put into a category against your own will. I didn't make any of these concepts, I report on the reality of said concepts.

For instance, being a 6ft3 athletically built black man with dreads like myself. I cant help what I look like but guess what, the police still treat me like a criminal for walking around my mainly "white" neighborhood. These are the constructs put into the world by a certain group of people. Newsflash, it wasn't my ancestors making the American laws hundreds of years ago.

You do the "I dont see color" shit when really you need to see color and treat everyone equally from that point of view. There is color in the world and its beautiful. Stop trying to hide from reality because it makes you uncomfortable.

Good for you and your friends that you have no idea what race they are because you don't see color.

Its important to see color to fully understand and appreciate what people are. Gamer isn't a race of people its a hobby. Those people you play with are more than their avatars. They are people. That's the beautiful thing about Earth.

My point is that... in the online world NOBODY needs to know what "category" people put us into in real life. Nobody sees what color you are or know what sexuality you are or religion or anything else.

It's like the scene from The Empire Strikes Back where Luke goes into the cave and asks whats inside. Yoda responds "Only what you take with you".

I prefer not to focus on our differences but rather on our similarities. And that is really, really easy to do in an online world when compared to the real world where like you say... as soon as someone looks at you they immediately see one or more categories that they might put you in.

In an online world.. as Yoda said.. what's inside is "Only what you take with you"

Unfortunately people bring real world stuff into games. You cannot ignore it and I think I should not have to. I will instead use the tools available to me to get rid of the people who do. Tough but if you cannot do the time don't do the crime.

klash2def · December 2018

Slapshot1188 said:

klash2def said:

Slapshot1188 said:

klash2def said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Edit: A rando white kid screaming "die you fucking nworder" in my ear every ten seconds isn't even close to satire. It's hate speech. Please don't ever use that lame attempt ever again in your life.

I always wonder when I read stuff like this how you know it's a white kid and how they know you are black?

Nobody online has the slightest idea what race or races I am... and while I certainly find the random idiot I never face anything close to what you describe.

I'm basing my ear off the voice. I work in audio for a living. I understand timbre and tones and I used to work with kids. we are not going to sit here and pretend like lingo and dialects aren't a real thing. I can tell when I'm talking to a white kid or a black kid. Also being black, when I hear those things, I ALWAYS ask "Hey what racial ethnicity are you?" When its racial I always ask to make sure I'm right and 9/10 I'm right. A few times it was other than white but never black kids saying shit like that. Its not the black kids online saying die "nworder" die over and over dude.

Sorry but this is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

You know, I personally have gamed with the same group since DAOC launched and I honestly have no idea what race some of them are. Sometimes their characters are white, sometimes they are black, sometimes they are asian and sometimes they are elven/dwarven/alien. I do not know if any of them are gay (do know some are straight as they refer to their wives...). Because none of that matters. We are simply a group of friends.

We have been on voice chat for over 17 years.

It must be horrible to live in a world where every single thing is seen through a perspective of what category someone can be put in.

You are right about one thing, it is horrible to live in a world where every single thing is seen through a perspective of what category someone can be put in. Its also horrible to be put into a category against your own will. I didn't make any of these concepts, I report on the reality of said concepts.

For instance, being a 6ft3 athletically built black man with dreads like myself. I cant help what I look like but guess what, the police still treat me like a criminal for walking around my mainly "white" neighborhood. These are the constructs put into the world by a certain group of people. Newsflash, it wasn't my ancestors making the American laws hundreds of years ago.

You do the "I dont see color" shit when really you need to see color and treat everyone equally from that point of view. There is color in the world and its beautiful. Stop trying to hide from reality because it makes you uncomfortable.

Good for you and your friends that you have no idea what race they are because you don't see color.

Its important to see color to fully understand and appreciate what people are. Gamer isn't a race of people its a hobby. Those people you play with are more than their avatars. They are people. That's the beautiful thing about Earth.

My point is that... in the online world NOBODY needs to know what "category" people put us into in real life. Nobody sees what color you are or know what sexuality you are or religion or anything else.

It's like the scene from The Empire Strikes Back where Luke goes into the cave and asks whats inside. Yoda responds "Only what you take with you".

I prefer not to focus on our differences but rather on our similarities. And that is really, really easy to do in an online world when compared to the real world where like you say... as soon as someone looks at you they immediately see one or more categories that they might put you in.

In an online world.. as Yoda said.. what's inside is "Only what you take with you"

You do realize that things people say in a online space can have real world implications? Just curious if you know this. Also while I do not disagree with your latest post, you make it sound as if knowing the race of your online friends is going to lessen the experience. As if those people are really only avatars and not actual people in your life.

Knowing what category they may be forced into(we all are in one) will help build your understanding of the person behind the avatar. what if one of your friends is crippled, or Trans? Muslim? Wouldn't that be awesome to you to know what walk of life they are on? You've known these people almost 20 years.. it would be awesome to have a deeper understanding of who they are as people. There is nothing wrong with that, you guys are friends already anyway correct? Why not get to know your friends.

JeffSpicoli · December 2018

thunderC said:

Did anyone hear about the B list actor who has banned from instagram for Cat shaming ? lol Political Correctness, Slippery Slope ?

I also want to add to my own post a Christmas song from the 40's called Baby its old outside was banned over the weekend by a Cleveland radio station because a few Callers found the song to be predatory to women. Forget slippery slope, this is becoming slip n slide

story https://ew.com/music/2018/12/02/baby-its-cold-outside-banned-by-cleveland-radio-station/

song

Slapshot1188 · December 2018

klash2def said:

Slapshot1188 said:

klash2def said:

Slapshot1188 said:

klash2def said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Edit: A rando white kid screaming "die you fucking nworder" in my ear every ten seconds isn't even close to satire. It's hate speech. Please don't ever use that lame attempt ever again in your life.

I always wonder when I read stuff like this how you know it's a white kid and how they know you are black?

Nobody online has the slightest idea what race or races I am... and while I certainly find the random idiot I never face anything close to what you describe.

I'm basing my ear off the voice. I work in audio for a living. I understand timbre and tones and I used to work with kids. we are not going to sit here and pretend like lingo and dialects aren't a real thing. I can tell when I'm talking to a white kid or a black kid. Also being black, when I hear those things, I ALWAYS ask "Hey what racial ethnicity are you?" When its racial I always ask to make sure I'm right and 9/10 I'm right. A few times it was other than white but never black kids saying shit like that. Its not the black kids online saying die "nworder" die over and over dude.

Sorry but this is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

You know, I personally have gamed with the same group since DAOC launched and I honestly have no idea what race some of them are. Sometimes their characters are white, sometimes they are black, sometimes they are asian and sometimes they are elven/dwarven/alien. I do not know if any of them are gay (do know some are straight as they refer to their wives...). Because none of that matters. We are simply a group of friends.

We have been on voice chat for over 17 years.

It must be horrible to live in a world where every single thing is seen through a perspective of what category someone can be put in.

You are right about one thing, it is horrible to live in a world where every single thing is seen through a perspective of what category someone can be put in. Its also horrible to be put into a category against your own will. I didn't make any of these concepts, I report on the reality of said concepts.

For instance, being a 6ft3 athletically built black man with dreads like myself. I cant help what I look like but guess what, the police still treat me like a criminal for walking around my mainly "white" neighborhood. These are the constructs put into the world by a certain group of people. Newsflash, it wasn't my ancestors making the American laws hundreds of years ago.

You do the "I dont see color" shit when really you need to see color and treat everyone equally from that point of view. There is color in the world and its beautiful. Stop trying to hide from reality because it makes you uncomfortable.

Good for you and your friends that you have no idea what race they are because you don't see color.

Its important to see color to fully understand and appreciate what people are. Gamer isn't a race of people its a hobby. Those people you play with are more than their avatars. They are people. That's the beautiful thing about Earth.

My point is that... in the online world NOBODY needs to know what "category" people put us into in real life. Nobody sees what color you are or know what sexuality you are or religion or anything else.

It's like the scene from The Empire Strikes Back where Luke goes into the cave and asks whats inside. Yoda responds "Only what you take with you".

I prefer not to focus on our differences but rather on our similarities. And that is really, really easy to do in an online world when compared to the real world where like you say... as soon as someone looks at you they immediately see one or more categories that they might put you in.

In an online world.. as Yoda said.. what's inside is "Only what you take with you"

You do realize that things people say in a online space can have real world implications? Just curious if you know this. Also while I do not disagree with your latest post, you make it sound as if knowing the race of your online friends is going to lessen the experience. As if those people are really only avatars and not actual people in your life.

Knowing what catorgory they may be forced into will help build your understanding of the person behind the avatar. what if one of your friends is crippled, or Trans? Muslim? Wouldn't that be awesome to you to know what walk of life they are on? You've known these people almost 20 years.. it would be awesome to have a deeper understanding of who they are as people. There is nothing wrong with that, you guys are friends already anyway correct? Why not get to know your friends.

Because I simply do not need to bring "real life' stuff into a video game setting. It's my (and I assume our) time to toss off the trappings of "real life" and just game together.

Whether they are crippled or trans or Muslim has absolutely no bearing on our ability to have fun for a few hours together a few days a week. Maybe we all just like not to be "judged" based off pre-conceptions around being crippled, trans or Muslim and simply want to have fun playing a game together.

We do not need to bring any of that stuff into the cave with us.

Phry · December 2018

cheyane said:

Slapshot1188 said:

klash2def said:

Slapshot1188 said:

klash2def said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Edit: A rando white kid screaming "die you fucking nworder" in my ear every ten seconds isn't even close to satire. It's hate speech. Please don't ever use that lame attempt ever again in your life.

I always wonder when I read stuff like this how you know it's a white kid and how they know you are black?

Nobody online has the slightest idea what race or races I am... and while I certainly find the random idiot I never face anything close to what you describe.

I'm basing my ear off the voice. I work in audio for a living. I understand timbre and tones and I used to work with kids. we are not going to sit here and pretend like lingo and dialects aren't a real thing. I can tell when I'm talking to a white kid or a black kid. Also being black, when I hear those things, I ALWAYS ask "Hey what racial ethnicity are you?" When its racial I always ask to make sure I'm right and 9/10 I'm right. A few times it was other than white but never black kids saying shit like that. Its not the black kids online saying die "nworder" die over and over dude.

Sorry but this is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

You know, I personally have gamed with the same group since DAOC launched and I honestly have no idea what race some of them are. Sometimes their characters are white, sometimes they are black, sometimes they are asian and sometimes they are elven/dwarven/alien. I do not know if any of them are gay (do know some are straight as they refer to their wives...). Because none of that matters. We are simply a group of friends.

We have been on voice chat for over 17 years.

It must be horrible to live in a world where every single thing is seen through a perspective of what category someone can be put in.

You are right about one thing, it is horrible to live in a world where every single thing is seen through a perspective of what category someone can be put in. Its also horrible to be put into a category against your own will. I didn't make any of these concepts, I report on the reality of said concepts.

For instance, being a 6ft3 athletically built black man with dreads like myself. I cant help what I look like but guess what, the police still treat me like a criminal for walking around my mainly "white" neighborhood. These are the constructs put into the world by a certain group of people. Newsflash, it wasn't my ancestors making the American laws hundreds of years ago.

You do the "I dont see color" shit when really you need to see color and treat everyone equally from that point of view. There is color in the world and its beautiful. Stop trying to hide from reality because it makes you uncomfortable.

Good for you and your friends that you have no idea what race they are because you don't see color.

Its important to see color to fully understand and appreciate what people are. Gamer isn't a race of people its a hobby. Those people you play with are more than their avatars. They are people. That's the beautiful thing about Earth.

My point is that... in the online world NOBODY needs to know what "category" people put us into in real life. Nobody sees what color you are or know what sexuality you are or religion or anything else.

It's like the scene from The Empire Strikes Back where Luke goes into the cave and asks whats inside. Yoda responds "Only what you take with you".

I prefer not to focus on our differences but rather on our similarities. And that is really, really easy to do in an online world when compared to the real world where like you say... as soon as someone looks at you they immediately see one or more categories that they might put you in.

In an online world.. as Yoda said.. what's inside is "Only what you take with you"

Unfortunately people bring real world stuff into games. You cannot ignore it and I think I should not have to. I will instead use the tools available to me to get rid of the people who do. Tough but if you cannot do the time don't do the crime.

cannot? or don't want to?
The Yoda quote is relevant here because it has several levels to it.
Your statement could easily be interpretted to mean, 'people who do things i don't like in the game i do my best to get rid of' its not a pretty interpretation and i am sure you are a nicer person than that really.
The don't do the crime if you can't do the time saying is important too, it was a favourite of my uncle who made sure i understood what it meant, after he finished a 5 year stretch for armed robbery. Of course that only applies to legal definitions of 'crime' rather than 'opinion based' definitions of one, they really are not the same thing, well that may no longer be entirely true, and perhaps it will be even less true in the near future.

mklinic · December 2018

cheyane said:

I think they got the last laugh. Has it ever occurred to you that people these days understand the climate very well and use it to their benefit. Why should I have to change channel or server or switch off something when I can get rid of you instead?

So the victim was playing the long game and actually "won" this PvP encounter. Well played! Anyone scoffing at the victim for being thin skinned should step back and appreciate the meta-game.

cheyane · December 2018

Phry said:

cheyane said:

Slapshot1188 said:

klash2def said:

Slapshot1188 said:

klash2def said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Edit: A rando white kid screaming "die you fucking nworder" in my ear every ten seconds isn't even close to satire. It's hate speech. Please don't ever use that lame attempt ever again in your life.

I always wonder when I read stuff like this how you know it's a white kid and how they know you are black?

Nobody online has the slightest idea what race or races I am... and while I certainly find the random idiot I never face anything close to what you describe.

I'm basing my ear off the voice. I work in audio for a living. I understand timbre and tones and I used to work with kids. we are not going to sit here and pretend like lingo and dialects aren't a real thing. I can tell when I'm talking to a white kid or a black kid. Also being black, when I hear those things, I ALWAYS ask "Hey what racial ethnicity are you?" When its racial I always ask to make sure I'm right and 9/10 I'm right. A few times it was other than white but never black kids saying shit like that. Its not the black kids online saying die "nworder" die over and over dude.

Sorry but this is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

You know, I personally have gamed with the same group since DAOC launched and I honestly have no idea what race some of them are. Sometimes their characters are white, sometimes they are black, sometimes they are asian and sometimes they are elven/dwarven/alien. I do not know if any of them are gay (do know some are straight as they refer to their wives...). Because none of that matters. We are simply a group of friends.

We have been on voice chat for over 17 years.

It must be horrible to live in a world where every single thing is seen through a perspective of what category someone can be put in.

You are right about one thing, it is horrible to live in a world where every single thing is seen through a perspective of what category someone can be put in. Its also horrible to be put into a category against your own will. I didn't make any of these concepts, I report on the reality of said concepts.

For instance, being a 6ft3 athletically built black man with dreads like myself. I cant help what I look like but guess what, the police still treat me like a criminal for walking around my mainly "white" neighborhood. These are the constructs put into the world by a certain group of people. Newsflash, it wasn't my ancestors making the American laws hundreds of years ago.

You do the "I dont see color" shit when really you need to see color and treat everyone equally from that point of view. There is color in the world and its beautiful. Stop trying to hide from reality because it makes you uncomfortable.

Good for you and your friends that you have no idea what race they are because you don't see color.

Its important to see color to fully understand and appreciate what people are. Gamer isn't a race of people its a hobby. Those people you play with are more than their avatars. They are people. That's the beautiful thing about Earth.

My point is that... in the online world NOBODY needs to know what "category" people put us into in real life. Nobody sees what color you are or know what sexuality you are or religion or anything else.

It's like the scene from The Empire Strikes Back where Luke goes into the cave and asks whats inside. Yoda responds "Only what you take with you".

I prefer not to focus on our differences but rather on our similarities. And that is really, really easy to do in an online world when compared to the real world where like you say... as soon as someone looks at you they immediately see one or more categories that they might put you in.

In an online world.. as Yoda said.. what's inside is "Only what you take with you"

Unfortunately people bring real world stuff into games. You cannot ignore it and I think I should not have to. I will instead use the tools available to me to get rid of the people who do. Tough but if you cannot do the time don't do the crime.

cannot? or don't want to?
The Yoda quote is relevant here because it has several levels to it.
Your statement could easily be interpretted to mean, 'people who do things i don't like in the game i do my best to get rid of' its not a pretty interpretation and i am sure you are a nicer person than that really.
The don't do the crime if you can't do the time saying is important too, it was a favourite of my uncle who made sure i understood what it meant, after he finished a 5 year stretch for armed robbery. Of course that only applies to legal definitions of 'crime' rather than 'opinion based' definitions of one, they really are not the same thing, well that may no longer be entirely true, and perhaps it will be even less true in the near future.

I don't lol am a nice person and an old women but I'm just being the devil's advocate and saying in this time and period where a lot is changing and about time too, where once women accepted being slapped on their behinds we no longer have to. We also no longer have to just accept people calling you names in a game either.

It's not weak it is actually using your brain and getting the other person the one that bothered you into trouble.

That AJ guy stayed and made sure he got footage. He's not the victim here. Those other players lost $60 a piece. Who's weak? I bet those idiots never do it again, well at least not stupid enough to put it on youtube after.

I am all for people using the tools available to them to get rid of a problem.

Scot · December 2018

It seems the only way to get banned for griefing is to also be homophobic.

Phry · December 2018

cheyane said:

Phry said:

cheyane said:

Slapshot1188 said:

klash2def said:

Slapshot1188 said:

klash2def said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Edit: A rando white kid screaming "die you fucking nworder" in my ear every ten seconds isn't even close to satire. It's hate speech. Please don't ever use that lame attempt ever again in your life.

I always wonder when I read stuff like this how you know it's a white kid and how they know you are black?

Nobody online has the slightest idea what race or races I am... and while I certainly find the random idiot I never face anything close to what you describe.

I'm basing my ear off the voice. I work in audio for a living. I understand timbre and tones and I used to work with kids. we are not going to sit here and pretend like lingo and dialects aren't a real thing. I can tell when I'm talking to a white kid or a black kid. Also being black, when I hear those things, I ALWAYS ask "Hey what racial ethnicity are you?" When its racial I always ask to make sure I'm right and 9/10 I'm right. A few times it was other than white but never black kids saying shit like that. Its not the black kids online saying die "nworder" die over and over dude.

Sorry but this is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

You know, I personally have gamed with the same group since DAOC launched and I honestly have no idea what race some of them are. Sometimes their characters are white, sometimes they are black, sometimes they are asian and sometimes they are elven/dwarven/alien. I do not know if any of them are gay (do know some are straight as they refer to their wives...). Because none of that matters. We are simply a group of friends.

We have been on voice chat for over 17 years.

It must be horrible to live in a world where every single thing is seen through a perspective of what category someone can be put in.

You are right about one thing, it is horrible to live in a world where every single thing is seen through a perspective of what category someone can be put in. Its also horrible to be put into a category against your own will. I didn't make any of these concepts, I report on the reality of said concepts.

For instance, being a 6ft3 athletically built black man with dreads like myself. I cant help what I look like but guess what, the police still treat me like a criminal for walking around my mainly "white" neighborhood. These are the constructs put into the world by a certain group of people. Newsflash, it wasn't my ancestors making the American laws hundreds of years ago.

You do the "I dont see color" shit when really you need to see color and treat everyone equally from that point of view. There is color in the world and its beautiful. Stop trying to hide from reality because it makes you uncomfortable.

Good for you and your friends that you have no idea what race they are because you don't see color.

Its important to see color to fully understand and appreciate what people are. Gamer isn't a race of people its a hobby. Those people you play with are more than their avatars. They are people. That's the beautiful thing about Earth.

My point is that... in the online world NOBODY needs to know what "category" people put us into in real life. Nobody sees what color you are or know what sexuality you are or religion or anything else.

It's like the scene from The Empire Strikes Back where Luke goes into the cave and asks whats inside. Yoda responds "Only what you take with you".

I prefer not to focus on our differences but rather on our similarities. And that is really, really easy to do in an online world when compared to the real world where like you say... as soon as someone looks at you they immediately see one or more categories that they might put you in.

In an online world.. as Yoda said.. what's inside is "Only what you take with you"

Unfortunately people bring real world stuff into games. You cannot ignore it and I think I should not have to. I will instead use the tools available to me to get rid of the people who do. Tough but if you cannot do the time don't do the crime.

cannot? or don't want to?
The Yoda quote is relevant here because it has several levels to it.
Your statement could easily be interpretted to mean, 'people who do things i don't like in the game i do my best to get rid of' its not a pretty interpretation and i am sure you are a nicer person than that really.
The don't do the crime if you can't do the time saying is important too, it was a favourite of my uncle who made sure i understood what it meant, after he finished a 5 year stretch for armed robbery. Of course that only applies to legal definitions of 'crime' rather than 'opinion based' definitions of one, they really are not the same thing, well that may no longer be entirely true, and perhaps it will be even less true in the near future.

I don't lol am a nice person but I'm just being the devil's advocate and saying in this time and period where a lot is changing and about time too, where once women accepted being slapped on their behinds we no longer have to. We also no longer have to just accept people calling you names in a game either.

It's not weak it is actually using your brain and getting the other person the one that bothered you into trouble.

That AJ guy stayed and made sure he got footage. He's not the victim here. Those other players lost $60 a piece. Who's weak? I bet those idiots never do it again, well at least not stupid enough to put it on youtube after.

I am all for people using the tools available to them to get rid of a problem.

they were interviewed afterwards, to say that they thought it was hillarious would be an understatement, perhaps the loss just did not matter to them, either way it was all a matter of opinion in any case, perhaps if eurogamer hadn't pushed the issue on Bethesda the 3 day ban would have been the end of it, instead it became a 'hot topic' and a controversial one, yet again. As for whether they will do something like that again, there really isn't anything to stop them, if anything the publicity will likely encourage them to 'take it up a notch' for their next video, after all if RDR2 is anything to judge by, its quite the popular thing to do on youtube, while some will no doubt be outraged, kids tend to thrive on that because its funny and it gets a lot of views.

klash2def · December 2018

OG_Zorvan said:

klash2def said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Edit: A rando white kid screaming "die you fucking nworder" in my ear every ten seconds isn't even close to satire. It's hate speech. Please don't ever use that lame attempt ever again in your life.

I always wonder when I read stuff like this how you know it's a white kid and how they know you are black?

Nobody online has the slightest idea what race or races I am... and while I certainly find the random idiot I never face anything close to what you describe.

I'm basing my ear off the voice. I work in audio for a living. I understand timbre and tones and I used to work with kids. we are not going to sit here and pretend like lingo and dialects aren't a real thing. I can tell when I'm talking to a white kid or a black kid. Also being black, when I hear those things, I ALWAYS ask "Hey what racial ethnicity are you?" When its racial I always ask to make sure I'm right and 9/10 I'm right. A few times it was other than white but never black kids saying shit like that. Its not the black kids online saying die "nworder" die over and over dude.

I will admit I do hear the black kids using homophobic slurs and when I do, I tell them its not cool. I explain why its not and they usually don't do it again the rest of the session. I am the same way I am here on this forum I am everywhere. I am very passionate about human rights and equality. If I'm making a difference in 1 persons life then so be it. Whatever it takes. As long as the seed is planted that that shit is wrong that's all I can hope for.

Also just because you don't experience something, does not indicate it does not happen and often.

I'll just ask the million dollar question: do you also believe black people can't be racist? I'm just curious, since you're quick to point out that even when it's not whites saying racial shit, you just know it's most definitely not black kids. And no, I'm not buying the "I ask every time and they tell me what race they are every time" bullshit either. I can tell you right now, most people asked that are going to tell you "Who the fuck are you and why are you asking my race for?". Also, I'm willing to bet you could find plenty of black kids screaming "I'ma kill that nigga!" into their Xbone mics but your "audio experience" will tell you they sound just like white kids. Especially since all black kids don't sound "black" as I'm sureryou think "black" sounds.

By the way, while yes you sometimes can get a hint of someone's race by their voice ( usually older people ), you cannot always. I, for example, grew up in a shithole ghetto. I'm white, yet depending on who I was hanging with at the time you heard my voice you could've very easily mistaken me for latino or black, because part of fitting in was learning the lingo and accents. That's what kids do, they adapt to their environment. Your experience in audio wouldn't have made a damn bit of difference. In fact, if you'd said you had experience in linguistics, you might have had a stronger case on that one. Maybe.

Like everyone else, I know what a black kid sounds like, I know what a white kid sounds like, let me be very clear about what I said, since you wanna do semantics. I never said each time I ask they tell me, I said I always ask and 9/10 when I hear the answer its a white kid saying that racist shit. Read what I wrote. So when I ask a kid their race and yes I do every-time I hear that bs, I ask because I know how black kids talk. I know what they sound like. I know the type of things they say.

So how they talk is the lingo, and how they sound is the actual tone and drawl of voice. There is a big difference between a black kid saying "ima kill that nigga" and a white kid saying "die fucking nigger." black kids would never say the latter. We don't even play like that. Its just a big no in our community. The word "nigga" was weaponized against us for years. We took the power out of that word. That's why we use it.. But Nigger.. still hurts. KKK is still very real. They use that word. It still has some power. That's why we don't say it.

But Either way you put it, coming from another race is uncomfortable and causes anger. That's the reason most of the people who say that shit online never say it to the face of a similar person in real time. There are real life consequences.

You even said yourself "black kids that sound like white kids" which implies you also realize there is a way black kids talk and a way white kids talk and that there is a difference between the two. A white kid saying "bruh that's litt" does not sound the same as a black kid saying "bruh thats litt." It sounds completely different and when it sounds the same someone is trying hard to fit in with the lingo which is influenced by young black kids. The influence of black youth in general is a whole other topic but basically my point is they sound different and Its not hard for me to pick up on it. I used to deal with hundreds of inner-city kids trust me when I say I know how they talk and operate. I'm from Compton California. I know what a black kid sounds like believe me. Or not. I don't care if you believe actually. That's not even my point. My point is about hate speech being real. Thats my point. The fact that people keep trying to take lines from my entire explanation and derail or change the narrative is hilarious. Keep trying I Guess.

To answer your little question about do I believe black people can be racist? Racist yes of course they can be. Anyone can be racist. But in gaming culture the biggest culprit of racism is young white men that think they are being funny because they are forgetting other people also play these games. They practice hate speech daily and in droves. Ask them to stop don't ask me why I notice them.

Lets not play stupid. Gaming used to be mainly a white male space only. Its not anymore, but it hasn't stopped a lot of them from treating it like it still is.

SBFord · December 2018

Let's stick to the topic at hand:

1) Bethesda bans these specific people
2) Proximity chat

It's probably time for the tangential discussion to be taken to PMs please. Thanks.

Phry · December 2018

klash2def said:

OG_Zorvan said:

klash2def said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Edit: A rando white kid screaming "die you fucking nworder" in my ear every ten seconds isn't even close to satire. It's hate speech. Please don't ever use that lame attempt ever again in your life.

I always wonder when I read stuff like this how you know it's a white kid and how they know you are black?

Nobody online has the slightest idea what race or races I am... and while I certainly find the random idiot I never face anything close to what you describe.

I'm basing my ear off the voice. I work in audio for a living. I understand timbre and tones and I used to work with kids. we are not going to sit here and pretend like lingo and dialects aren't a real thing. I can tell when I'm talking to a white kid or a black kid. Also being black, when I hear those things, I ALWAYS ask "Hey what racial ethnicity are you?" When its racial I always ask to make sure I'm right and 9/10 I'm right. A few times it was other than white but never black kids saying shit like that. Its not the black kids online saying die "nworder" die over and over dude.

I will admit I do hear the black kids using homophobic slurs and when I do, I tell them its not cool. I explain why its not and they usually don't do it again the rest of the session. I am the same way I am here on this forum I am everywhere. I am very passionate about human rights and equality. If I'm making a difference in 1 persons life then so be it. Whatever it takes. As long as the seed is planted that that shit is wrong that's all I can hope for.

Also just because you don't experience something, does not indicate it does not happen and often.

I'll just ask the million dollar question: do you also believe black people can't be racist? I'm just curious, since you're quick to point out that even when it's not whites saying racial shit, you just know it's most definitely not black kids. And no, I'm not buying the "I ask every time and they tell me what race they are every time" bullshit either. I can tell you right now, most people asked that are going to tell you "Who the fuck are you and why are you asking my race for?". Also, I'm willing to bet you could find plenty of black kids screaming "I'ma kill that nigga!" into their Xbone mics but your "audio experience" will tell you they sound just like white kids. Especially since all black kids don't sound "black" as I'm sureryou think "black" sounds.

By the way, while yes you sometimes can get a hint of someone's race by their voice ( usually older people ), you cannot always. I, for example, grew up in a shithole ghetto. I'm white, yet depending on who I was hanging with at the time you heard my voice you could've very easily mistaken me for latino or black, because part of fitting in was learning the lingo and accents. That's what kids do, they adapt to their environment. Your experience in audio wouldn't have made a damn bit of difference. In fact, if you'd said you had experience in linguistics, you might have had a stronger case on that one. Maybe.

Like everyone else, I know what a black kid sounds like, I know what a white kid sounds like, let me be very clear about what I said, since you wanna do semantics. I never said each time I ask they tell me, I said I always ask and 9/10 when I hear the answer its a white kid saying that racist shit. Read what I wrote. So when I ask a kid their race and yes I do every-time I hear that bs, I ask because I know how black kids talk. I know what they sound like. I know the type of things they say.

So how they talk is the lingo, and how they sound is the actual tone and drawl of voice. There is a big difference between a black kid saying "ima kill that nigga" and a white kid saying "die fucking nigger." black kids would never say the latter. We don't even play like that. Its just a big no in our community. The word "nigga" was weaponized against us for years. We took the power out of that word. But Nigger.. still hurts. That's why we don't say it. Either way you put it, coming from another race is uncomfortable but coming from a white person causes anger and rage. That's the reason most of the people who say that shit online never say it to the face of a similar person in real time. There are real life consequences.

You even said yourself "black kids that sound like white kids" which implies you also realize there is a way black kids talk and a way white kids talk and that there is a difference between the two. A white kid saying "bruh that's litt" does not sound the same as a black kid saying "bruh thats litt." It sounds completely different and when it sounds the same someone is trying hard to fit in with the lingo which is influenced by young black kids. The influence of black youth in general is a whole other topic but basically my point is they sound different and Its not hard for me to pick up on it. I used to deal with hundreds of inner-city kids trust me when I say I know how they talk and operate. I'm from Compton California. I know what a black kid sounds like believe me. Or not. I don't care if you believe actually. That's not even my point. My point is about hate speech being real. Thats my point. The fact that people keep trying to take lines from my entire explanation and derail or change the narrative is hilarious. Keep trying I Guess.

To answer your little question about do I believe black people can be racist? Racist yes of course they can be. Anyone can be racist. But in gaming culture the biggest culprit of racism is young white men that think they are being funny because they are forgetting other people also play these games. They practice hate speech daily and in droves. Ask them to stop don't ask me why I notice them.

Lets not play stupid. Gaming used to be mainly a white male space only. Its not anymore, but it hasn't stopped a lot of them from treating it like it still is.

I would hate to think that what you were saying is true about the racism, where do you get those kinds of figures from that you think its mostly white kids who are racist? Perhaps i am being idealistic but i didn't think racism in gaming was much of an issue and that most gamers were in fact above that kind of nonsense regardless of what colour they are.

MadFrenchie · December 2018

There's actual science that shows that allowing groups with dangerous agendas to fester within themselves, without being check by reality from an outside force, breeds the kind of extremism that creates tragic actions.

The science supports rooting out such dangerous elements, at least by supplying steady dosages of reality checks and facts to discourage a drift towards extremism.

EDIT- Just saw Suzie's post. Won't continue the discussion, but thought it was worth noting that there's actual studies of this stuff; there's no need for this guesswork or opinion.

cheyane · December 2018

SBFord said:

Let's stick to the topic at hand:

1) Bethesda bans these specific people
2) Proximity chat

It's probably time for the tangential discussion to be taken to PMs please. Thanks.

Sorry /slinks away

klash2def · December 2018

@Phry

I'm going end my 2 cents with this. 6 Min video, you should really see this when you can.

https://twitter.com/techinsider/status/1064916780659892229

Respect to Suzie lets stay on topic. Send me a PM if you want to continue discussion.

Edit: No that's not me. I had nothing to do with it, but its great insight.

SBFord · December 2018

The thread's run its course. Closing.

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