With the Rise of Arena Combat, MMO's really have lost their place in the PvP landscape.
MMO's often have gear, level, and build combination balance issues, not to mention if there is roles or the like, this will make balance impossible for PvP, as support is often weaker in direct combat than DPS.. blah.. blah.
Arena Combat games own this front, in fact. with the rise of games like Fortnight where the balance is built on player skill and a little luck which makes for the best kind of PvP combat, MMO's might as well hang up the PvP Apron, and focus on PvE.
Just my feels on this.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Also, I don't understand the hate for auto-grouping features.
Do people want to go back to "join a guild or you might as well not play" or "spam chat channels for hours" really? So archaic.
I agree that the elitism and toxic environment is bad for MMO, but reality, if there is not a healthy PUG community in an MMO, then the Developers really should revisit how they designed their Instance content, because they screwed up someplace.
Which goes back to game design, and a target market.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Influx of big money brings the talent. Bottom of the barrel talent is clinging to a dying genre. If big money invested in MMORPG's you would see better talent and incredible games. Right now you see a lot of so so games because the people behind them are not very good. That's the truth of it. Gaming companies are struggling because they can't find talent.
With the Rise of Arena Combat, MMO's really have lost their place in the PvP landscape.
MMO's often have gear, level, and build combination balance issues, not to mention if there is roles or the like, this will make balance impossible for PvP, as support is often weaker in direct combat than DPS.. blah.. blah.
Arena Combat games own this front, in fact. with the rise of games like Fortnight where the balance is built on player skill and a little luck which makes for the best kind of PvP combat, MMO's might as well hang up the PvP Apron, and focus on PvE.
Just my feels on this.
So true.
I've yet to see a game that has successfully balance ranged vs. melee, or worse yet, melee vs. magic - in the MMORPG space. The PvP crowd will always gravitate (and with good reason) to the most powerful (usually overpowered) build and perfect it. Any attempt to balance it results in a new FOTM build and the process starts all over again. This gets really difficult in the MMORPG space because you have leveling and gear to consider.
In PvE you can just go through and make the classes all fun without having to worry so much about it.
Only a game changer like Fornite will ever move the MMORPg genre from the rut it is in now. Everything I have issues with in MMOs is now the handed down way to make them, to go outside easy/tiny/solo/meaningless PvP mode design is seen as a huge risk.
We have seen Fornite be a huge success selling cosmetic items alone, but gaming studios know that would never work in a MMO. They know that a MMO cannot have a subscription but we have seen ESO do just that for three years before it became B2P.
There is more than one way of financing a MMO and more than one way of putting together the gameplay. But anything other than a tweak to the template is ruled out. Today the sort of new feature you get is limited flying or the like, nothing that really effects gameplay and certainly n nothing that affects the financial model.
Graphical overhaul, bug fixes, bit of fresh content, then re-release of the golden oldies. Seriously if they overhauled or re-built SWG, fixed a plethora of problems that existed in pre-CU, and revived the game with modern marketing, I'd bite.
100% agree. I would even add an element like Rift / ESO has with "rifts / dolmens" . Like randomly an Imperial ship lands with troopers, they start a focus search in the area (perhaps for rebel scum) and a fight ensues. Players start to tag into the fight then other ships shows up to deploy more troopers. As the fight ramps up you see a Commander "Boss" or even a Sith lord. If opposing rebel faction wins , troopers pull out and they have some Blue Milk (hah), and if the Imperials win you see the initial subject of the assault or "rift / dolmen" be taken away for god knows what. Imagine that and then people flagging pvp (Yes, FLAG pvp for us pve lovers), that would have fun written all over it, speaking from experience playing SWG and flagging pvp in a cantina .
Come up with a meta-MMORPG that let's you find out about what you want from MMORPG's in general, so you can know quickly which ones would appeal.
This would be gamified - you'd play a game that would show you different kinds of gameplay, different visual styles (gear, world, etc.), back to back, and then survey you on which variation of a game element you like more.
For example, equip you with a realistic looking mace, a 4 foot long fantasy hammer that looks like it weighs 80 pounds, a slim rapier made only of particle effects, with similar animations, and ask which you like using the most.
After doing this for different kinds of gear, visual styles, worldspace types (e.g. lots of valleys or wide open expanses; lots of vertical changes in space with multiple levels or less vertical maps, etc), kinds of combat, kinds of crafting, etc. etc.
And the makers of this meta-MMORPG would also tag existing MMORPG's so you could look up which MMORPG's are good for you based on your preferences from the meta-MMORPG game.
TL;DR make an MMO that teaches you to find the right MMO for you. Downside is that if successful, r/MMORPG would die off when people find their MMO happy place :P
Problem here is most mmorpgs from the last 10-15 years have pretty much been mostly the exact same game just with a diffrent skin over it. Ever since WoW was such a success, every dev and their mother just tries to copy it. Sure the combat might be a bit diffrent but its still the same boring solo quest hub to quest hub stuff.
I miss mmorpgs like old school ff11, before abbysea, stuff took time, you needed people, solo wasn't really an option past lv 10 or so for most jobs. It had a sense of accomplishment that mmorpgs today just lack, you could login to FF11 complete a quest or 2, maybe gain a level and feel satisfied with your progress. In todays mmorpgs the journey to lv cap is such a joke that there is no real excitement to it or anything, its just a boring grind. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind a grind when its done right: you need a party, so you have people to chat with and such.
Raids also need to be made harder, no more of this junk we have now where you can get UI mods in say wow that bascally have the bosses entire attack pattern set in stone, it takes away most of the challenge, I'd rather the boss use random abilities, to keep players on their toes. When I watch groups fail the raids in wow I often just facepalm as some of them seem overly simple, same with FF14, alot of the endgame bosses aren't that hard, the problem is the playerbase are morons and don't pay enough attention, lack of situational awareness. Its especally sad in FF14 when any aoe has a big huge circle bascally screaming "Hey imma use this attack here!" yet people still somehow get caught by them, usually your given more than enough time to dodge.
We won't see any true mmorpgs anymore, as mmorpgs went from the hardcore to casual themeparks. A few devs have tried for the more hardcore side but it just doesn't get the players they need as they are used to how easy Wow and its ilk are.
Mmorpg's used to be more about the journey then rushing to endgame, even wow 1.0 was like that, it wasn't till after the first expansion when it started going downhill.
I think the Issue is, That the 8 Year olds can't handle not getting a trophy. They are use to being told what to do and then doing it or complaining about it in Chat. I have considered making the game mature but that cuts out the mass majority of player in today's market. This is why we were considering Quest with item/Currency and not the experience model. Everyone will have to grind their Skills to progress. I Mean really, Who learns to do advanced skills by delivering eggs or some silly quest...
Come up with a meta-MMORPG that let's you find out about what you want from MMORPG's in general, so you can know quickly which ones would appeal.
This would be gamified - you'd play a game that would show you different kinds of gameplay, different visual styles (gear, world, etc.), back to back, and then survey you on which variation of a game element you like more.
For example, equip you with a realistic looking mace, a 4 foot long fantasy hammer that looks like it weighs 80 pounds, a slim rapier made only of particle effects, with similar animations, and ask which you like using the most.
After doing this for different kinds of gear, visual styles, worldspace types (e.g. lots of valleys or wide open expanses; lots of vertical changes in space with multiple levels or less vertical maps, etc), kinds of combat, kinds of crafting, etc. etc.
And the makers of this meta-MMORPG would also tag existing MMORPG's so you could look up which MMORPG's are good for you based on your preferences from the meta-MMORPG game.
TL;DR make an MMO that teaches you to find the right MMO for you. Downside is that if successful, r/MMORPG would die off when people find their MMO happy place :P
Problem here is most mmorpgs from the last 10-15 years have pretty much been mostly the exact same game just with a diffrent skin over it. Ever since WoW was such a success, every dev and their mother just tries to copy it. Sure the combat might be a bit diffrent but its still the same boring solo quest hub to quest hub stuff.
I miss mmorpgs like old school ff11, before abbysea, stuff took time, you needed people, solo wasn't really an option past lv 10 or so for most jobs. It had a sense of accomplishment that mmorpgs today just lack, you could login to FF11 complete a quest or 2, maybe gain a level and feel satisfied with your progress. In todays mmorpgs the journey to lv cap is such a joke that there is no real excitement to it or anything, its just a boring grind. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind a grind when its done right: you need a party, so you have people to chat with and such.
Raids also need to be made harder, no more of this junk we have now where you can get UI mods in say wow that bascally have the bosses entire attack pattern set in stone, it takes away most of the challenge, I'd rather the boss use random abilities, to keep players on their toes. When I watch groups fail the raids in wow I often just facepalm as some of them seem overly simple, same with FF14, alot of the endgame bosses aren't that hard, the problem is the playerbase are morons and don't pay enough attention, lack of situational awareness. Its especally sad in FF14 when any aoe has a big huge circle bascally screaming "Hey imma use this attack here!" yet people still somehow get caught by them, usually your given more than enough time to dodge.
We won't see any true mmorpgs anymore, as mmorpgs went from the hardcore to casual themeparks. A few devs have tried for the more hardcore side but it just doesn't get the players they need as they are used to how easy Wow and its ilk are.
Mmorpg's used to be more about the journey then rushing to endgame, even wow 1.0 was like that, it wasn't till after the first expansion when it started going downhill.
I think the Issue is, That the 8 Year olds can't handle not getting a trophy. They are use to being told what to do and then doing it or complaining about it in Chat. I have considered making the game mature but that cuts out the mass majority of player in today's market. This is why we were considering Quest with item/Currency and not the experience model. Everyone will have to grind their Skills to progress. I Mean really, Who learns to do advanced skills by delivering eggs or some silly quest...
I think quest should only give currency while currency can be use to buy items from NPC vendor and make skill progress faster , for example training with skill masters in older game
Have more way to take the currency out of the game is always better for it . ask people to grind is a last option nowadays
But the problem is quest , they are boring and lack of replay ability . I think instead of field quest , it better to develop quest instances and field events , while limited open world mob for materials gather
Sorry , IDK about game develop so i don't know how much instance a game can have . Most game i play only have around 5 to 10 instances
Comments
With the Rise of Arena Combat, MMO's really have lost their place in the PvP landscape.
MMO's often have gear, level, and build combination balance issues, not to mention if there is roles or the like, this will make balance impossible for PvP, as support is often weaker in direct combat than DPS.. blah.. blah.
Arena Combat games own this front, in fact. with the rise of games like Fortnight where the balance is built on player skill and a little luck which makes for the best kind of PvP combat, MMO's might as well hang up the PvP Apron, and focus on PvE.
Just my feels on this.
Which goes back to game design, and a target market.
I've yet to see a game that has successfully balance ranged vs. melee, or worse yet, melee vs. magic - in the MMORPG space. The PvP crowd will always gravitate (and with good reason) to the most powerful (usually overpowered) build and perfect it. Any attempt to balance it results in a new FOTM build and the process starts all over again. This gets really difficult in the MMORPG space because you have leveling and gear to consider.
In PvE you can just go through and make the classes all fun without having to worry so much about it.
We have seen Fornite be a huge success selling cosmetic items alone, but gaming studios know that would never work in a MMO. They know that a MMO cannot have a subscription but we have seen ESO do just that for three years before it became B2P.
There is more than one way of financing a MMO and more than one way of putting together the gameplay. But anything other than a tweak to the template is ruled out. Today the sort of new feature you get is limited flying or the like, nothing that really effects gameplay and certainly n nothing that affects the financial model.