Marketing has us all so brainwashed... "The next big MMO..."
Why do we think in singularities? "One MMO must be made to please us all!"
As has been pointed out numerous times, the customer base for MMOs is all over the place, making the development of "one-fits=all" rather silly, don't you think? What we need is a wide of variety of MMOs that appease a few customers at a time and focus on those features and do them well. Easy Peasy, right?
Unfortunately, big business has taken over and that means big profits right now, if not yesterday. They can't wait the old 2 to 3 years to see a sizable profit like the old MMORPGs used to wallow through. Anything taking over 60 days to see a profit won't happen.
Like a forest fire clears out the underbrush and choking leaf mold, the MMO market needs to crash and burn so that it can start a new growth cycle.
Just my opinion
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
nope, nothing around or in the works.......... I am hoping something will be done that can positively and Ultimatly be called THE NEXT GEN but right now, it really does feel like the games are going backwards. First all these retro and pixel games then (although some are good) remakes of old games (yet to see some of those good ones get remade thats as good or better) but keeping the same feel.
I really don't think lack of success is even the big issue.
GW2, ESO, etc., have all probably earned their fair share of money by this point.
The big issue for publishers is the effort. An MMO will make them money, but not at a rate where profit is proportional to the time. It's a long time to focus on one project that will almost assuredly make less than a short-term project.
Why invest 5+ years developing a massive game that costs 100+ million, when you can simply throw out some cheap little game you can make in a year or two(Hearthstone, Fortnite, etc.) for 5(0) times the profit.
If it didn't take so long to make an MMO, I think studios would be right back in the game.
There's nothing else that matches their scope and budget. Any traditional game publisher would have had several heart attacks by now if they'd been funding SC, that project only survives because it's crowdfunded.
Truth is, the core MMO audience is just to small to make AAA projects worthwhile. When the greater mass of online gamers had few alternatives, they all piled into MMO's, vastly inflating the numbers. Those days are forever gone...
Lots of people seem to think that there is a future for a full-fledged AAA MMORPG, maybe with a major IP. Does anyone actually know of one in development? I certainly don't. To me, that means that about the earliest we could see one would be in the 2025-2028 time frame. Even if some indie games kindle a resurgence in MMORPGs, it will have to have very widespread appeal to attract the money necessary to make a AAA class game. Even more, the indie games will need to step into unknown territory and expand the genre beyond combat with magic and crafting. Again, I don't see this as a goal for anything currently in production.
I still think Blizzard is working on something with Diablo or Star Craft behind the scenes. They would be stupid not to bring something to the table from a financial perspective. I personally would rather see a Star Craft and have 3 factions but thats just me. Other than that unless there is an Atlas type announcement out there where it comes out of left field I think this genre has largely dried up and has been abandoned by the big development houses.
It seems everything coming out is a nostalgia type of title more than anything new and fresh with the possible exception of Dual Universe and Atlas but I have doubts about the ability of Atlas to be what it is being advertised as.
It's quite possible that Blizzard is working on an MMORPG project. But, it's Blizzard, and they're good at keeping their development secret. So, while I'd love to see a WoW2 or StarCraft Online, I don't *know* that Blizzard is working on any of those.
You might be right about the genre being dried up, at least as far as major development houses are concerned. I think the best way to get them back in is for an indie to change what we we think of when we think of an MMORPG. I can't see how a nostalgic turn to past designs doing that. But if the genre changes, then maybe a new, bigger genre will attract the big boys again.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I, personally, am ready for many new mmorpgs as long as the aren't AAA as that will just ensure they are pure and abject shit with child mechanics made to be fun to watch videos of other people playing it instead of having meaty and thoughtful mechanics aimed at an adult audience.
There are two things working against another AAA MMO going into development any time soon.
1 - Like Lokero already mentioned in a previous post, the monetary return on effort just isn't there. You spend 5 years developing a basic MMO, the content of which some players can literally devour in a few weeks. Maybe it makes you a billion dollars in box sales. Except there are games out there right now that took 1-2 years develop and also made a billion dollars in box sales.
For instance, a Battle Royale game could conceivably be made by most AAA publishers right now in six months with existing game assets.
2 - Market saturation. We need to go back in time and remember how few games in total even existed in 2003-2008. There really weren't all that many. In fact, I would bet that if you added up every single video game released from 2003-2005 combined, there were more released in 2018 alone.
When gamers left MMO's, they found themselves, not wandering a desert, but desperately trying to swim in an ocean of competing games and genres.
I couldn't possibly play every game that interests me in a year. It's just not possible. I have to pick and choose. I'm missing out on ten other titles that I would like to try right now because I'm playing Warhammer Total War 2 and it's a very time consuming game. So those games will just be missed. So be it.
there isn't enough people ready for a new AAA to make it worth the cost, which is well over 100million today for a polished AAA game.
That's why every AAA studio has moved away from traditional MMORPGs - there's just not enough player interested to make it profitable.
OP your only hope are indie studios at this time.
The time of the Elves MMOs is over
This 100% The AAA MMO is dead. And with the way these AAA companies are treating their costumers lately many won't want anything to do with it. Would you really play an MMO put out by EA?
Lots of people seem to think that there is a future for a full-fledged AAA MMORPG, maybe with a major IP. Does anyone actually know of one in development? I certainly don't. To me, that means that about the earliest we could see one would be in the 2025-2028 time frame. Even if some indie games kindle a resurgence in MMORPGs, it will have to have very widespread appeal to attract the money necessary to make a AAA class game. Even more, the indie games will need to step into unknown territory and expand the genre beyond combat with magic and crafting. Again, I don't see this as a goal for anything currently in production.
I think you hit on another reason why classic MMORPGs are off the table for a while. It doesn't bode well that people are putting up with indie MMOs until they can get a real AAA MMO. That isn't good news for indies and it's not good incentive for high dollar AAA studios. That is one of the core reasons I think we're not seeing anything in production. There isn't a reasonable return for the money, time, and investment it takes to build one.
Definitely. The incentive isn't there for anything but a passion project, and that type of project is almost the definition of indie development.
There's basically three ways to possibly attract major AAA development houses: the genre changes; a glut of players return to these type games; or a new business model is developed to improve the return on investment time.
The genre changing *might* be most likely, but it will rely almost entirely on indie developers taking major risks and including all sorts of new game play elements. 'Radical innovation' doesn't seem to be the basic mindset of most indie shops, though.
A influx of players, possibly from other game types (mostly mobile) could happen, but there's just too much different between mobile/action and the traditional MMORPG to imagine this happening. The big shops are already chasing the mobile money, so they might be persuaded to jump on an MMORPG-for-mobile as an interim/baby step. But I doubt it.
A new business model might be practical, but I don't think it exists now. With as much feedback as cash shops and micro transactions already have, I don't know if the gaming public is willing to stand for more creative (and more expensive) ways to fund the games they want to play.
I can see further decrease of the genre long before I can see a resurgence. Maybe the best thing to do is simply dump the MMORPG as a game type, then wait 20-25 years to introduce MMORPGs 2.0 to a population that only vaguely remembers the glory days.
Sucks for those of us whose lifespans might not reach that far into the future.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I think there are still too many MMORPG. I wouldn't count on anything big until at least 2025. Unintended consequence of F2P allowing should be shuttered MMORPG hang around for years.
I would like the genre to tone down the graphics. Focus on the players and community. Focus on multiplayer aspects of the world and gameplay. Kill the questhub themepark design and design a functional world.
Flesh out gameplay beyond combat. Combat is given but where is exploration, trade, crafting, politics and etc.
So your waiting for Pantheon: Rise of The Fallen like me than haha
Not sure it's the game for me. I will watch. I just think it is overly focused on combat.
Hariken said: Would you really play an MMO put out by EA?
Oh.. what did EA do now?
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Do gamers really want to spend the $100/ month sub fee on top of the box cost and the microtransaction and DLC fees that it would cost to really build that game that "has all the right features people want"?
Probably not, but still waiting on Star Citizen to find out.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
No, i don't see a reason for any company to invest 100 million with a doubtful return.
In 20 years technology should be far enough to bring the cost down to include the great graphics players want and include gameplay for more than one group of players
No, i don't see a reason for any company to invest 100 million with a doubtful return.
In 20 years technology should be far enough to bring the cost down to include the great graphics players want and include gameplay for more than one group of players
uh the tec is there, sony has proven that with their version of an mmo called "planetside". prob is, they screwed their game too with their silly remake
and marc is developing his mmo for more than a raid of players too. all you have to do is use an engine (or actually, make the engine) made for that, and not a for 5 players or lag ^^
i think marc is at about 500 players atm, and well, planetside is on about the same level i guess
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
We will see. I doubt any AAA MMO will be made the next decade, not when a shooter or moba can bring in almost the same with 1/10 of the development costs.
"People are ready for a new, heavily promoted, strong IP, AAA MMO. It's time."
I read this title and think to myself that, while it may be time, there isn't a game developer or potential game that would survive the "hype" and the unreasonable expectations of fans. I don't blame a single studio for saying, "Thanks but no thanks."
Exactly. Once again, the gamers, are more the problem than the solution.
This is why you do not see sports games dying, they know EXACTLY what their audience wants, and they give them that. FPS titles, still have a strong following because it's easy to give the fans what they want. MMORPG? Impossible, like Kano said, you would need a dump truck full of cash, and there is still no guarantee you will make a dime on the game. MMO RPG gamers are so eclectic in their tastes, trying to interest enough of them to make a game worth trying to make is impossible.
We will, however, spend several hundred dollars buying boxes so we can get that new super awesome set of armor. Instead of paying 15 bucks a month for the ability to own everything in the game if we play long enough.
We will spend more time developing apps to make encounters as mindless as possible than we will fighting said encounters. We will spend hours on youtube before we log in to play just to ensure there is no real challenge awaiting us.
So do we really want a new Trip A MMO? I think not, well some of use do, like maybe ten or so. The rest just want to write apps and make a new Youtuber/Twitch Streamer famous while we eat up all there is to do in a game in a week then move on to the next shiny.
While I'm not implying your overall post is wrong, sports games aren't a good indicator of how to provide fans "what they want."
If fans had a choice between free gameplay updates, including roster updates, multiple years instead of being forced to purchase a brand new title every single year just to get up to date rosters and have access to the online multiplayer service, I doubt many would volunteer the extra cash.
But sports games have to be licensed through the league organization. And those licenses are exclusive. As such, if you wanna run the Patriots offense with your boy Tom Brady, fork over the cash EA wants or bust. That's not a good position for consumers, and I doubt if asked objectively whether they thought being in that position was ideal, most would say they enjoyed that position.
My point was and is to the sports game reference: The fans know what they want, and they get what they want. You may be correct on licenses and everything else you said, I am in no position to argue that, nor do I think it relevant. What I am saying is when people that love to play virtual hockey go buy the new hockey game, they know exactly what they are getting and they are getting exactly what they want. You really cannot do that with an MMORPG game and expect to make a profit. Yet sports games are some of the highest profit games out there.
Essentially the developers and producers (of sports games) CAN know their market in a way that MMORPG producers can't. Sure they may be fleecing their customers just the same as MMORPG players I don't know.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
I'm already contentedly playing a strong MMORPG with an original IP for the past 15 years that has flown largely under the radar.
I personally don't have any need of a new, heavily promoted, strong IP, AAA MMO.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
I'm already contentedly playing a strong MMORPG with an original IP for the past 15 years that has flown largely under the radar.
I personally don't have any need of a new, heavily promoted, strong IP, AAA MMO.
Well you are selling yourself short.I also play an aged mmorpg that i still love to play but need a break once in awhile.However the reason i landed in all of my fave games is because i moved on to something better. Like i started play Wolfenstein way way back,Wizardry ,might n magic,Lands of Lore,heck Commander Keen !!!. As new and better games evolved i moved onto those and enjoyed more gaming. There are a few reasons why gaming is so stale now and not advancing our gameplay.
None the less,if a AAA games crosses my path,i am likely playing it,i just don't see any coming yet. AAA=doing ALL of the systems right,no goofy pink napsacks or bunny hopping ,no somersaults,just do stuff that makes sense and looks mature.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I don't think the 'age of the MMO' is over, but i see the tolerance of players towards Multiplayer games on the wane, particularly those that involve microtransactions, however, i also think that MOBA's are on the way out too, for the moment B.R games may be a thing but its a bloated market for them already, i suspect something there just has to give. If anything i think we are entering into an age of the 'single player game' again, personally i would be more than happy to see more games with 'story' and if there is multiplayer its so you can play with friends and not have your game trashed by randoms, or have microtransactions shoved down your throat in order to play the game decently.
I think what is ruining a lot of these games is TOO many cooks in the kitchen.My fave mmorpg was pretty much head to toe run/produced and all of ONE guy making all the decisions "Tanaka".
All it takes is one bad apple on the design team to make some stupid ass system and ruin the entire game.These system people need to STOP and THINK,does this idea make ANY sense at all,if not then don't do it,you'll screw up the entire game.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
My personal favorite would be Blade Runner but it pales in comparison
Good choices, I would add Shanara Chronicles ((because you love Elves )) but that has the bare minimum of recognition needed. If we are talking fantasy, Game of Thrones is the obvious choice. From other genres a Marvel MMORPG, from horror well Vampire the Masquerade stands out.
Comments
Why do we think in singularities? "One MMO must be made to please us all!"
As has been pointed out numerous times, the customer base for MMOs is all over the place, making the development of "one-fits=all" rather silly, don't you think? What we need is a wide of variety of MMOs that appease a few customers at a time and focus on those features and do them well. Easy Peasy, right?
Unfortunately, big business has taken over and that means big profits right now, if not yesterday. They can't wait the old 2 to 3 years to see a sizable profit like the old MMORPGs used to wallow through. Anything taking over 60 days to see a profit won't happen.
Like a forest fire clears out the underbrush and choking leaf mold, the MMO market needs to crash and burn so that it can start a new growth cycle.
Just my opinion
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
First all these retro and pixel games then (although some are good) remakes of old games (yet to see some of those good ones get remade thats as good or better) but keeping the same feel.
There's nothing else that matches their scope and budget. Any traditional game publisher would have had several heart attacks by now if they'd been funding SC, that project only survives because it's crowdfunded.
Truth is, the core MMO audience is just to small to make AAA projects worthwhile. When the greater mass of online gamers had few alternatives, they all piled into MMO's, vastly inflating the numbers. Those days are forever gone...
People are ready for a new, heavily promoted, strong IPA.
MMM Beer weekend Mmmmm good
Aloha Mr Hand !
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
1 - Like Lokero already mentioned in a previous post, the monetary return on effort just isn't there. You spend 5 years developing a basic MMO, the content of which some players can literally devour in a few weeks. Maybe it makes you a billion dollars in box sales. Except there are games out there right now that took 1-2 years develop and also made a billion dollars in box sales.
For instance, a Battle Royale game could conceivably be made by most AAA publishers right now in six months with existing game assets.
2 - Market saturation. We need to go back in time and remember how few games in total even existed in 2003-2008. There really weren't all that many. In fact, I would bet that if you added up every single video game released from 2003-2005 combined, there were more released in 2018 alone.
When gamers left MMO's, they found themselves, not wandering a desert, but desperately trying to swim in an ocean of competing games and genres.
I couldn't possibly play every game that interests me in a year. It's just not possible. I have to pick and choose. I'm missing out on ten other titles that I would like to try right now because I'm playing Warhammer Total War 2 and it's a very time consuming game. So those games will just be missed. So be it.
The AAA MMO is dead. And with the way these AAA companies are treating their costumers lately many won't want anything to do with it. Would you really play an MMO put out by EA?
- A new business model might be practical, but I don't think it exists now. With as much feedback as cash shops and micro transactions already have, I don't know if the gaming public is willing to stand for more creative (and more expensive) ways to fund the games they want to play.
I can see further decrease of the genre long before I can see a resurgence. Maybe the best thing to do is simply dump the MMORPG as a game type, then wait 20-25 years to introduce MMORPGs 2.0 to a population that only vaguely remembers the glory days.Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Do gamers really want to spend the $100/ month sub fee on top of the box cost and the microtransaction and DLC fees that it would cost to really build that game that "has all the right features people want"?
Probably not, but still waiting on Star Citizen to find out.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
prob is, they screwed their game too with their silly remake
and marc is developing his mmo for more than a raid of players too. all you have to do is use an engine (or actually, make the engine) made for that, and not a for 5 players or lag ^^
i think marc is at about 500 players atm, and well, planetside is on about the same level i guess
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Essentially the developers and producers (of sports games) CAN know their market in a way that MMORPG producers can't. Sure they may be fleecing their customers just the same as MMORPG players I don't know.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
I personally don't have any need of a new, heavily promoted, strong IP, AAA MMO.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
Like i started play Wolfenstein way way back,Wizardry ,might n magic,Lands of Lore,heck Commander Keen !!!.
As new and better games evolved i moved onto those and enjoyed more gaming.
There are a few reasons why gaming is so stale now and not advancing our gameplay.
None the less,if a AAA games crosses my path,i am likely playing it,i just don't see any coming yet.
AAA=doing ALL of the systems right,no goofy pink napsacks or bunny hopping ,no somersaults,just do stuff that makes sense and looks mature.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
If anything i think we are entering into an age of the 'single player game' again, personally i would be more than happy to see more games with 'story' and if there is multiplayer its so you can play with friends and not have your game trashed by randoms, or have microtransactions shoved down your throat in order to play the game decently.
All it takes is one bad apple on the design team to make some stupid ass system and ruin the entire game.These system people need to STOP and THINK,does this idea make ANY sense at all,if not then don't do it,you'll screw up the entire game.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.