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I Think I'm Ruined/Spoiled... [Old Games Rant]
I have LOTS of old games on my PC, many from GOG. When I attempt to play them, I find the level of "quality of life" quite lacking.
Basically, I appreciate that old games came with thick manuals. I enjoyed browsing through them before ever getting into a game, just to get the basics down. Usually, though, most lacked any in depth mechanics information. When I boot up a game, I want to play that game, not alt+tab out or pause to look up something in a manual. I love the "mouse hover info" that has been implemented with newer games. I enjoy the in-game help that many have implemented.
I've attempted to play Fallout 1&2, but can't get the hang of them. So many interface buttons with no idea what does what. I've attempted Deus Ex and not gotten far. Civ 2 and 3 are quite different from original Civilization. Then I have all of the old Star Wars games just sitting as I load them up and have nary a clue as what to do
On a positive note, I've enjoyed getting into Beyond Good & Evil, an old game I did not seem to find these troubles with
Now, the old games I played when they were new are the same old games I remember. But remember Star Wars: Galaxies and it's DOS-like command line? I could never play that game today. Doom and Quake takes some getting used to, but I used to love the "no mouse" play of those games (arrow keys to move and ALT or CTRL to fire). But I am quite out of practice for this now
I realize I basically just need to "git gud" and become familiar with these old games, retrain my gaming muscles, but I want play games, not learn them for hours (days?) before getting to enjoy them.
Do others feel this disparity with old games, too? (Yes, I'm seeking validation on an Internet message board
)
Basically, I appreciate that old games came with thick manuals. I enjoyed browsing through them before ever getting into a game, just to get the basics down. Usually, though, most lacked any in depth mechanics information. When I boot up a game, I want to play that game, not alt+tab out or pause to look up something in a manual. I love the "mouse hover info" that has been implemented with newer games. I enjoy the in-game help that many have implemented.
I've attempted to play Fallout 1&2, but can't get the hang of them. So many interface buttons with no idea what does what. I've attempted Deus Ex and not gotten far. Civ 2 and 3 are quite different from original Civilization. Then I have all of the old Star Wars games just sitting as I load them up and have nary a clue as what to do
On a positive note, I've enjoyed getting into Beyond Good & Evil, an old game I did not seem to find these troubles with
Now, the old games I played when they were new are the same old games I remember. But remember Star Wars: Galaxies and it's DOS-like command line? I could never play that game today. Doom and Quake takes some getting used to, but I used to love the "no mouse" play of those games (arrow keys to move and ALT or CTRL to fire). But I am quite out of practice for this now
I realize I basically just need to "git gud" and become familiar with these old games, retrain my gaming muscles, but I want play games, not learn them for hours (days?) before getting to enjoy them.
Do others feel this disparity with old games, too? (Yes, I'm seeking validation on an Internet message board
)- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Comments
Simcity 4 is incredibly easy to get into. And with mods, I personally like it more than Cities Skylines (but thats mostly cause the traffic AI in Skylines is terrible). I also like the region system of Simcity 4, which cities skylines doesn't really have. Simant is still the only good ant simulator, and that is really basic. I still play Morrowind, which I find to be better in many aspects than Skyrim. I play an old RTS called Warlords Battlecry 3, so old and yet the single only rts with an actual persistent hero character you keep forever.
Mostly I like the older city builders/strategies. I don't get into the newer ones as much. I play starcraft 2, but mostly cause my friend does. I however vastly prefer newer RPG games than older ones with sometimes an exception (like Morrowind). And I would never want to play an old FPS game, the new FPS's are just too good with their mechanics.
Though I do play roguelikes too...and they are pretty archaic and often super confusing with so many buttons+hotkeys.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
The lack of in game info is not.. in my opinion.. a positive thing for games.
The modern trend with tool tips and info provided for you in-game as you play, is an inspired feature that keeps players in the game itself, as opposed to needing to read guides and alt-tab their way though a game.
Personally, ideally, I think there should be a feature that unlocks the info as you play the game. IE: Once you solve a puzzle, your character/account now has the info in game how to solve it, or records what some ingredient does, etc, and you no longer need to go to a guide to look it up.
Just my feels on that.
So most people would still google on how to do things anyway.
Don't need to buy guides or anything, people just use google.
Personally, I prefer taking my time and figuring it out for myself. I do google an answer if I get frustrated and annoyed or/and start going in circles non-stop, but that usually takes a while.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
Take Skyrim as an example. Why does my "brutish warrior" know what my "intelligent mage" found out, especially puzzle-wise?
That kind of sounds like "gaming the game" to me
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
But, different players play games for many different reasons. Achievements is another "innovation" I care nothing for. Talk about a game playing you!
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
This may be another symptom of getting "ruined/spoiled" by new games, where success and/or advancement is about 95% from the start, with some exceptions
Really, I think my whole attention span is way off kilter...
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
As I see it, the Info, is not for your Character, it is for the player, after YOU solved the puzzle, not your "brutish" warrior. The rewards for solving the puzzle would be Character based, IE: EXP, Reputation, Items, titles, fame and the obligatory hot maiden throwing herself into your Brutish Warriors arms for saving the day.
Let me use an Example in a game I played with a Bestiary to better explain this.
The info that I could call up from the Bestiary was Account based, so the amount of times I encountered a specific mob was across all my characters, as well as there were account based rewards and information unlocks, IE: after I killed 1000 bats, I would additional info on their health, armor, movements, strengths and weaknesses, etc, as well as some lore and fluff to go with it, and notes in the Bestiary of my accomplishments.
However, the Title "Bat Killer" and coinciding +10% additional damage to Bats was Character based, on killing 200 bats. So each character that I wanted that extra damage on, I needed to take out and kill 200 bats with.
I loved the idea, and really wish other games adopted this kind of system for more in game things, as long as they made sense thematically, and didn't pull away from the game play.
I see it's the difference between how we "roleplay." For some, the player is the character. Then your post makes sense as "the player" has already don something. And that's cool!
For other players, there is a separation between the player and the characters. Just because one character may know/discover something, does not mean all characters have. This is a major complaint of mine about puzzles. They usually test my abilities, not my character's. If I roleplayed my dumb warrior in Skyrim, I'd have never thought to "look in your hand" at that first "puzzle door" in Bleakfalls Barrow. Maybe my warrior can't even read! Think of all the notes/messages those poor couriers delivered that went unread
I do like and appreciate your bestiary example. That makes a great distinction between "account" and "character." My only eyebrow knitting comes from the "insight" awarded to ALL characters on your ac count. They may not get bonus damage for killing 200 on their own, but a brand new character suddenly knows all the strengths and weaknesses of bats, without ever seeing before? (Yea, that's a little silly as bats are quite common
Roleplaying is hard, especially when a game's designer doesn't see it as the player does. It becomes a "game of compromises", never feeling quite right. I find myself letting a lot of stuff slide "for the sake of the game as designed." I can totally see what you're saying, and have encountered and played the same way.
This is why I desire to play old games, before always online, automatic button press hits and dodges, designs for small time chunks, and achievements became such a cancer
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
This was the old 4:3 ratio, not 16:9 HD ratio, possibly just 640x480, if lucky
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I enjoyed it leveling my first character (50) but after working on a 2nd (45) and 3rd, (42) not so much as the old design decisions really wore on me and I quit after 6 months.
Fast forward to 2019 and I recently joined a new freeshard which "rose from the ashes" and was built with the idea of including more modern conveniences.
Yes folks, they made it "easier" and I like it!
Level appropriate high quality gear regularly drops so no tedious grinding of crafting or salvaging skills to earn gold. (Which at level 25 I have 276 gold from vendoring loot or drops in combat.
My Skald is over geared at this point and of course, gear never loses durability even purple so no expensive repairs, so my friends and I spend most of our time doing what we love best...killing stuff!
So, what do I spend gold on? Merchants! You buy them in town for 50 gold and can drop it at your camp for 3 minutes in order to vendor all extra loot, freeing players from tedious runs in town to sell and ....keep killing stuff!
You can even buy another merchant from the camp merchant so no need to invest in advance for spares, which of course stack should you desire to.
Or, one can buy campfires from other players who sell spares in case you aren't getting them by grouping to fight higher level camps.
These are definitely not 1.69 compliant and speed up regeneration of health, endo, and mana while sitting, especially in combat. Not really needed when out of combat unless your class consumes a lot mana.
Maps display where you are on them, and where your friends or group is. A true God send after 6 months of navigating by landmarks and dead reckoning.
There are many other perks I won't go into, but let's just say I have no problem joining the ranks of the "filthy casuals."
And we get to kill stuff...like all the time, did I mention that already, it's pretty great.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
But, old is relative. I don't see FO 1 and 2 as old games. They have perfectly functional UIs. It would be great if the major mods for both allowed key rebinds, but the UI is far more modern than old. And tons of games still come out that for some ridiculous reason still don't allow rebinding of keys. Its infuriating. And I think both FO1 and 2 bring up the key guide with F1?
You are playing them with the major mods, right? I think for 1 it is something called MiB or something. For FO2 I think its called Fixed. Both have a lot of new content, but you can skip it all and just apply all the fixes and enhancements they provide.
Accio old game.
Accio old game.
Accio .... damn it.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
As for the OP. yeah. . it is aweful. Those games had things that were considered improvements though at the time
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
I finding it hard to play FO 1 & 2 vanilla.
PS: 1997 and 1998 are not "old games" for you?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
You are looking at the mods wrong. Think of it like for console games on the PC. Like Skyrim or Fallout 3/4/NV. Would you ever play them with out a UI mod? Or mods that increase/improve functionality without changing content? You can do that with the major consolidated FO 1 and 2 mods. They all have options just to include the bug, functionality and engine improvements without adding new content. I honestly don't know how people do it without their improvements. Regarding content, I agree. But not using really great bug fixes and all the other improvements is like shooting yourself in the foot in my opinion.
I was born in 1963. I still consider games from the 90's as "old", before the quality if life improvements changed gaming.
As for mods, without playing the vanilla game, ho do I know what mods I want? Also, especially with Skyrim, I know firsthand that it is not a superb game, but a mediocre one, without mods. I want to see how a game was released before changing it, if that makes sense
Now, thanks to Skyrim and subsequent Bethesda titles, my first trip after purchasing their (or most) games is to Nexus mods and finding the "unofficial patch" files. It also helps that I rarely buy games within the first month of release, waiting for them (developers/publishers) to patch it into playability
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Also, I think understanding of computers/coding plays into it. I could be way off but it seems to me a lot of people older than me that are still into video games have a better understanding of computers and retain more information of how things used to work, why, and how to fix problems. Where I have issues getting a game running normally without some mod they can fiddle with shit and get it to run on their own.
I remember having to make boot disks to get games to run. But I have no idea the why and how of it. It took me a lot of work and fiddling to make a boot disk that got U7 to run, but I have no idea what xms is or does or why what I eventually came up with worked. The same now. I have no idea what the major mods do the engine of FO 1 and 2 or why it is so much easier to play when I install them, I just know its way easier with more functionality when I do.
So, from a knowledge/understanding standpoint I may default to looking for easy-mode fixes for problems I have that other people don't see as a problem since they know what to do to get things to work on their own.