Even male gynecologists get bored after a few years...
People have your mindset, but take it from someone who rotated through ob/gyn for 6 weeks, it isnt like it is a bunch of pornstars coming in, it is a bunch of gross nasty diseased vajizzle that comes in.
Then you get a bunch of people who you wonder how any one would sleep with them. Dont forget the whiff of BV.
LOL, gross. Let me introduce you to a bunch of diseased pornstars. Exhibit A: Pamela Anderson. Pornstars ARE diseased. Didn't you hear about the Playboy Mansion? Legionella bacteria was spawning in one of the hot tubs. So nasty! Still not as nasty as the male anatomy. So you may want to consider remaining a virgin.
"I have found a desire within myself that no experience in this world can satisfy; the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world." ~ C. S. Lewis
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I didn't know that the definition of P2W had to be researched...lol.
Seems pretty self explanatory.
Oh no, P2W is more of a sliding scale term, with matters of degree depending on who you ask.
I find many confuse it with a close cousin, Pay 2 Advance, which is similar, but not the same, at least in my view.
IMO, true P2W is rarely seen in most games, but many will swear every game has it.
Pay 2 Advance is the same as P2W, just alot more subtle. In games like Vindictus and Dragon Nest there's a cash shop item that protects your item from destruction. Without having it, your item has like a 90% chance of breaking at higher ranks. People who have like +15 weapons and items can spend up to $50 to $100 per item just to upgrade it.
Of course most games (in the West) don't include true "P2W" items, it is not as profitable as RNG/Gambling. EA pushed P2W back in the day in terms of loot crates and card packs, in which you would have to spend tons of money just to get good cards to play against other players. They still do, and other companies have started to copy their model by inserting RNG into the mix, just to squeeze more money out of players. It doesn't make any sense to have a "P2W" item at $20 when you can have a $5 Crate that has a chance of dropping that $20 item 1 in every 20 crates for potentially $100 profit. But a lot of Chinese MMOs do have P2W cash shop items, and you can read about this guy who spent like $16k on some virtual sword in a Chinese MMO https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2079095/Chinese-man-spends-16-000-sword-virtual-martial-arts-game.html
I didn't know that the definition of P2W had to be researched...lol.
Seems pretty self explanatory.
Oh no, P2W is more of a sliding scale term, with matters of degree depending on who you ask.
I was under the impression that as far as this place goes P2W means it has a cash shop.. what is sells seems to be vastly irrelevant.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
You know what those original MMOs had that you cant put your finger on?
NOVELTY and you're not going to find it again.
Well, if no developer ever creates something novel, then I guess you are right.
I actually experienced real novelty with L1, Shadowbane, DAOC, WOW, and EVE.
I never played AC1, UO, SWG, FFXI, or EQ1, each I expect each were novel in their own way from the MMORPGs I did try.
Perhaps there really are no more new, good ideas?
Not sure I believe that.
Well lets face it guys, ain't no company nowadays gonna care abt us (40+ yo gamers) who
care abt real MMOs and not copy/paste b/s aimed at just emptying your wallet.
It's
really so sad that they (companies) have all the technology to make a
masterpiece but they just keep making utter crap for the easy
manipulated crowd of 15+ age gamers.
It's easy to play with other people's money and say that they could make a masterpiece but ...
You are correct, most of these companies could make a masterpiece but would there be anyone to play it?
Because, this "Masterpiece" is going to be very specific, for a specific group of players, not an "everything but the kitchen sink" game.
Probably cost a huge amount to make too, and many years of developer time.
For example, while most likely no masterpiece, Pantheon will be made for 40+ players who enjoyed Everquest. But they will most likely have a small but loyal following and not make bank on their game. Which of course puts it in jeopardy if they don't plan for a small audience and think they are going to get a huge audience.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I didn't know that the definition of P2W had to be researched...lol.
Seems pretty self explanatory.
Oh no, P2W is more of a sliding scale term, with matters of degree depending on who you ask.
I find many confuse it with a close cousin, Pay 2 Advance, which is similar, but not the same, at least in my view.
IMO, true P2W is rarely seen in most games, but many will swear every game has it.
Agreed completely. Most people have different opinions on what P2W actually means. Personally I only mind cash shops when it interferes directly with my experience of the game. Like, some wouldn't consider bag space a deal killer...but it could be in some games while not in others. For example, bag space in GW2 isn't really a deal killer for me since you can easily transfer gear to different characters and there are many systems in place to manage your inventory. OTOH, bag space in a game like ArcheAge or BDO where the economy is a central part of the gameplay I have a huge problem with it.
I also find issues with cosmetics sometimes too, like if most cosmetics end up in the store for example. Even if you can earn them in game, that takes away the entire sense of earning that item playing the game because anyone can just buy it and make your accomplishment feel like...well, not an accomplishment.
As for the OP: I think nothing really fits your criteria but the closest 2 games are ESO or GW2.
I didn't know that the definition of P2W had to be researched...lol.
Seems pretty self explanatory.
Oh no, P2W is more of a sliding scale term, with matters of degree depending on who you ask.
I was under the impression that as far as this place goes P2W means it has a cash shop.. what is sells seems to be vastly irrelevant.
Depends on what you value in a game. If you want to craft cool stuff and it's in the cash shop... it's not much different from the cool sword being in the cash shop for a adventurer. That's why I don't view even cosmetics to be immune.
Paying to advance depends on the game. If you can't as advance your character in reasonable time or there are near impossible odds and the cash shop let's you... it's pay to win. If you haven't grinded for 2 years or spent 20k you can't do end game content then it might be pay to win.
I'm in the same boat. I haven't played a mmo legit since after year 1 of WoW when I realized it was never going to be anything more than raid or die. I've tried many, and the only one I've liked recently was Black Desert Online. I thought that was the first very good mmo to come out in a very long time (and not a WoW clone). However ironically enough I left it because it didn't have player to player trading. There was trading, an auction house, but you couldn't trade player to player directly. You say you don't want a mmo with pay2win, however I think p2w (more specifically player trading) is one of the key elements that provides longevity and drive to play. But I digress. Seriously, check out black desert if you haven't. Might be right up your alley.
Welcome to the boards! Ok you have been with us a while, but rarely post.
I tried BDO. I didn't care for it... among other things, the combat was weird to me. It seemed very Tekken-esque. Grand swipe and dash motions and explosions and all these other over the top effects that were splashed on looking almost 2 dimensional and seemed like they should knock a house down but barely moved the health bar of the mob I was fighting. Way too much.
p.s. P2W is buying things only available on a cash shop that gives you a distinct in game advantage or sanctioned cash purchases that allow a player to buy the best gear possible using real money. Player to player transactions is not pay to win.
Eventually gear upgrades in BDO need cash (you buy non-P2W stuff that you then sell for in game money, or mind numbing grinding. The economy was interesting, too complex to pull me in, I prefer my MMO complexity in other gameplay areas, but one thing you can't say is the economy is easymode in BDO.
I read the last few posts in this thread. I've decided to take a break from MMORPG for a spell.
gross.
I thought there was a new MMO in the making... "Doctor! Doctor!" You play a gynecologist and it comes with a scratch and sniff card
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Even male gynecologists get bored after a few years...
People have your mindset, but take it from someone who rotated through ob/gyn for 6 weeks, it isnt like it is a bunch of pornstars coming in, it is a bunch of gross nasty diseased vajizzle that comes in.
Then you get a bunch of people who you wonder how any one would sleep with them. Dont forget the whiff of BV.
LOL, gross. Let me introduce you to a bunch of diseased pornstars. Exhibit A: Pamela Anderson. Pornstars ARE diseased. Didn't you hear about the Playboy Mansion? Legionella bacteria was spawning in one of the hot tubs. So nasty! Still not as nasty as the male anatomy. So you may want to consider remaining a virgin.
Legionella likes moldy and watery environments hence hot tub or old air conditioner, plus it causes a wicked pneumonia, the vajizzle would be unaffected.
By diseased, i mean those with discharge from chlamydia, gonorhea, bv, yeast, old, fat and nasty, smelly, etc
Trust me, it isnt glamorous ?
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Thanks everyone for the validation that in this place, P2W simply means it has a cash shop, what it sells is vastly irrelevant.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Thanks everyone for the validation that in this place, P2W simply means it has a cash shop, what it sells is vastly irrelevant.
Doesn't it depend on why a player plays a game? If they want to be "the best crafter" and the cash shop that helps them get there, are they paying to win? If a player's goal is to rush to "end game" as fast as possible, do those XP Boost potions help them win?
There are lots of ways players may see "winning the game."
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Only two games that comes close to what you are looking for and that's ESO and GW2.
GW2 is absolutely not close. It's a good game in a lot of ways, but it represents everything that is wrong with MMOs... in my opinion at lease.
I may pop back into ESO. When I left, PvP was all but nonexistent.
GW2 are on the right track with dynamic event instead of classic ? and I quest givers, old school quest system are boring as hell, kill 10 rats standing still 10m from the quest giver, in GW2 quest happens all around you whenever you are there or not and you can decide if you want to follow the quest chain.
Only two games that comes close to what you are looking for and that's ESO and GW2.
GW2 is absolutely not close. It's a good game in a lot of ways, but it represents everything that is wrong with MMOs... in my opinion at lease.
I may pop back into ESO. When I left, PvP was all but nonexistent.
GW2 are on the right track with dynamic event instead of classic ? and I quest givers, old school quest system are boring as hell, kill 10 rats standing still 10m from the quest giver, in GW2 quest happens all around you whenever you are there or not and you can decide if you want to follow the quest chain.
GW2 is polished and provides a lot of things to do, but overall has become everything I dislike about MMOs. Class progression shallow, almost nonexistent. The loot system is about as deep as class progression. PvP (WvW) is horrible. The community is nice-ish but grouping is horrible. It is, in essence, a single player game that you occasionally auto group with other players to complete some of the more difficult tasks before going back to your solo game.
This is my opinion and is purely subjective so don't take what I say as some kind of consensus.
I always took "pay to win" as a game allowing for the ability to use real world money to gain an advantage over those who do not.
I don't think anyone cares if you want to look like a gay pirate. They do care that you used money to buy gear that makes you more powerful that people who did not buy gear.
I always took "pay to win" as a game allowing for the ability to use real world money to gain an advantage over those who do not.
I don't think anyone cares if you want to look like a gay pirate. They do care that you used money to buy gear that makes you more powerful that people who did not buy gear.
Oh contraire, to many people their avatar's appearance is very important, resenting when the better looking outfits are available for immediate (or exclusive) purchase rather than being earned in game or created by crafters.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
IMHO there is no difference between pay-to-advance and pay-to-win. Even if you could argue there is a difference, it doesn't change the fact that both suck.
In a pay-to-advance game the developer is motivated to make progression tedious (create the problem) so that they can sell widgets to make it bearable (then sell the solution). Likewise, with pay-to-win the motivation to make PvP unfair, unless you make a purchase, exists and that is terrible.
I agree and have given up the fight to try and distinguish between the two.
As you said, both irritate some portion of the player base and can result in them quitting or avoiding the game entirely.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Thanks everyone for the validation that in this place, P2W simply means it has a cash shop, what it sells is vastly irrelevant.
No you are asking for a clean answer to a question that is opinion based. Unless you think your opinion is better than others.
My definition is to have ways to advance past developer stifled limitations, odds or paying directly for power or advantage.
I gave up caring or trying to define "P2W".. Now days I just go with the idea that any time someone says "P2W" it simply means the game has a cash shop, and they didn't want to spend money. .. well really.. if we are going to get down to the brass tacks, I really just take it as they didn't want to spend money.
Since, as you so clearly put, they can't give a clear answer what they mean, as such I am not going to waste my time trying to figure out what they mean either, not my responsibly or problem. If they have an issue with a game, it's on them to be clear and exact what their issue is, if they want to fall back on a term they have deliberately made ambiguous, that is their problem, not mine.
Edit: Holy Shit! I have my edit button back!
Added:
@V@Vermillion_Raventhal the way you define it may not be how AlBQuirky defines it, expecting me to remember your individual feelings and definitions.. LOL.. never gonna happen, not even gonna try, nor should anyone be expected to.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Comments
I find many confuse it with a close cousin, Pay 2 Advance, which is similar, but not the same, at least in my view.
IMO, true P2W is rarely seen in most games, but many will swear every game has it.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Of course most games (in the West) don't include true "P2W" items, it is not as profitable as RNG/Gambling. EA pushed P2W back in the day in terms of loot crates and card packs, in which you would have to spend tons of money just to get good cards to play against other players. They still do, and other companies have started to copy their model by inserting RNG into the mix, just to squeeze more money out of players. It doesn't make any sense to have a "P2W" item at $20 when you can have a $5 Crate that has a chance of dropping that $20 item 1 in every 20 crates for potentially $100 profit. But a lot of Chinese MMOs do have P2W cash shop items, and you can read about this guy who spent like $16k on some virtual sword in a Chinese MMO https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2079095/Chinese-man-spends-16-000-sword-virtual-martial-arts-game.html
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I also find issues with cosmetics sometimes too, like if most cosmetics end up in the store for example. Even if you can earn them in game, that takes away the entire sense of earning that item playing the game because anyone can just buy it and make your accomplishment feel like...well, not an accomplishment.
As for the OP: I think nothing really fits your criteria but the closest 2 games are ESO or GW2.
Paying to advance depends on the game. If you can't as advance your character in reasonable time or there are near impossible odds and the cash shop let's you... it's pay to win. If you haven't grinded for 2 years or spent 20k you can't do end game content then it might be pay to win.
Eventually gear upgrades in BDO need cash (you buy non-P2W stuff that you then sell for in game money, or mind numbing grinding. The economy was interesting, too complex to pull me in, I prefer my MMO complexity in other gameplay areas, but one thing you can't say is the economy is easymode in BDO.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
By diseased, i mean those with discharge from chlamydia, gonorhea, bv, yeast, old, fat and nasty, smelly, etc
Trust me, it isnt glamorous ?
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
My definition is to have ways to advance past developer stifled limitations, odds or paying directly for power or advantage.
There are lots of ways players may see "winning the game."
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
So for them, cosmetics in a cash shop are P2W.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
As you said, both irritate some portion of the player base and can result in them quitting or avoiding the game entirely.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Since, as you so clearly put, they can't give a clear answer what they mean, as such I am not going to waste my time trying to figure out what they mean either, not my responsibly or problem. If they have an issue with a game, it's on them to be clear and exact what their issue is, if they want to fall back on a term they have deliberately made ambiguous, that is their problem, not mine.
Edit: Holy Shit! I have my edit button back!
Added:
@V@Vermillion_Raventhal the way you define it may not be how AlBQuirky defines it, expecting me to remember your individual feelings and definitions.. LOL.. never gonna happen, not even gonna try, nor should anyone be expected to.