After 800 Blizzard Employees Lose Their Jobs, Game Workers Unite Calls for Kotick Firing - MMORPG.c

Pemmin · February 2019

SBFord said:

They have some very valid points. Sadly, with "record profits", it's unlikely the board will fire Kotick since they are beneficiaries too. The way the firings were announced juxtaposed against Kotick crowing about "record profits" was disgusting.

I thought it was record revenue. revenue and profits are 2 very different things.

Gdemami · February 2019

gervaise1 said:
Maybe you should research e.g. matchgirls - some of whom went on strike in 1888; a grand old capitalist age.

...um, do you realize that is rather an example how uninons are unecessary, right?

Gdemami · February 2019

laserit said:
Care to explain what you find lol worthy?

When it is a case of your own business, I assume, you admited unions unhealthy impact and shut the place down but somehow the impact is less unhealthy when the business is not yours?

Seriously...

[Deleted User] · February 2019

The user and all related content has been deleted.

laserit · February 2019

Pemmin said:

laserit said:

SirAgravaine said:

Unions are the worst.

My company is non union and if my employees ever voted to unionize I would shut the place down, sell everything off and retire.

That being said, Unions are necessary, some companies deserve a union.

Balance is good, when the pendulum swings too far one way or the other it's not good.

id just move the company to a right to work state and continue with business as usual

I wouldn't want to leave where I live. The only place I've been where I've actually contemplated it was in Queensland Australia

gervaise1 · February 2019

DMKano said:

perrin82 said:

I'll play. Is it possible that these employees, while they may be great, became redundant?

Some were but if you read what insiders are saying - that's not what happened at all.

Read this

https://kotaku.com/the-fallout-of-activision-blizzard-s-massive-layoffs-1832597892

"Over the past week I’ve talked to around 20 people who were laid off or close to those being laid off, as well as others with knowledge as to what’s happening at Activision Blizzard. If there’s a consensus, it’s rage. Rage at Kotick’s comments, at the way Activision executives seemingly view their employees as numbers on a spreadsheet, at the callousness in which this layoff was handled. There’s rage at who was chosen to be laid off—two people told me that it felt like a random, haphazard practice—and rage that some important employees were let go. Some who had been laid off told me they had felt safe, expecting their studios or departments to not be affected. Even those who felt layoffs were necessary or justifiable said they were shocked by the scale, scope, and coldness from executives."

The reality is there were people laid off that nobody expected - non-redundant, important positions were also affected. Like some key IT (top performers) people were let go that were with the company for more than 15 years - and yes some non-redundant folks too.

This is why many at Blizzard are pissed off because there was no rhyme or reason for some of the people who got let go - and some also feel that people that SHOULD have been gone were spared, because they were chummy with certain managers. Typical office politics favoritism and bullshit that is the plague of many corporations

It's a charlie foxtrot - this was not handled well and many loyal employees have lost faith in Blizzard as a result.

If anything it's a good wake up call for Blizzard employees to get the F out - top talent is not going to stick around for much longer now that the cat is out of the bag.

But but ...... Blizzard gave the impression it was just "CS" type folks.

After all they said 20% extra devs .... but only on a limited set of games.

They said they were "only" letting 800 people go - without mentioning those that have gone throughout 2018 - e.g. a CoD distribution center last January with a loss of 50 jobs; that this is just US jobs - those outside the US are reviewed (most of King is outside the US); Bungee has been let go; I would be amazed if they have not had not had a moratorium on outside hires (taking on only those strictly necessary) to allow people under threat to apply for new posts etc.

They said mobile is the focus and gave the impression it is the promised new land - without highlighting that King hasn't been doing that well (200M+ drop in MAUs in 3 years and the decline seems to have gotten worse - which gives credence to EA's comments that mobile is tough).

Are you suggesting that some people have bought into what AB appear to have said without looking at the nuanced way they have said it. People can't be that dumb surely?

Whoops silly me. They can be.

At the end of the day it wouldn't surprise me if AB ends up shedding being c. 25% smaller. And more unsurprising "shocks" may be to come.

Hatefull · February 2019

Gdemami said:

gervaise1 said:
Maybe you should research e.g. matchgirls - some of whom went on strike in 1888; a grand old capitalist age.

...um, do you realize that is rather an example how uninons are unecessary, right?

Yeah, you are obviously ignorant to why we (the U.S. and many other countries) have unions. They were very necessary in the beginning as working conditions, child labor, unfair wages, benefits, etc were all in favor, extreme favor of the employer the employees were in many cases low paid slaves.

The Matchgirl case study is a perfect example of why unions are needed. You obviously failed to read or failed to understand what was written.

Over the years some Unions have gone away and with good reason, many more should go away but that is not to say that there are not places where a union would benefit the employee and as a secondary bonus benefit the consumer. I believe the gaming industry is one of those places. Comparably speaking, the gaming industry is still in a fledgling state and I feel that organized bargaining on the side of the employees would help to stabilize the industry.

The other side of the sword (so to speak) is a gaming developers union would, imo, outlive its usefulness and become more of a problem in the long run. There are many good cases where unions have hindered progress but at some point, all unions had good intentions and were very useful.

Hatefull · February 2019

BossChono said:

jonrd463 said:

Asheram said:

MadFrenchie said:

Cryomatrix said:

Ungood said:

And employers wonder why people are not loyal and hard working.. what is their motive to give you their best if you look upon them as expendable.

It goes both ways. Employees come to a new job, stick around, dick around, do whatever, and then leave when someone offers them something better. An employee isnt' like, all things being equal, i'll stay with this company because they pay less out of loyalty . . . doesn't work that way.

I think a lot of the lost loyalty comes from employers gutting things like pensions. Those are the types of long-term employment benefits that encouraged loyalty.

And thats where unions come into play. But then there are right to work states like Arizona snip the cajones of unions.

Unions are a two edged sword that are quickly outgrowing their usefulness. I work for a very large company that has sites that are both union and non-union. The non-union sites are proving to be the most productive and with the overall higher morale of the two. There are more opportunities for advancement because job roles that are traditionally union and non-union within a union shop are allowed to interact, collaborate, and innovate in a much more cooperative way. By contrast, when you have defined limits on who can do what and when, you stunt the ability for different groups to partner on projects. Instead, you introduce artificial barriers that hinder communication, and introduce all sorts of rules and regs that do nothing but increase costs without any value added.

All unions are today is just another bureaucratic layer contributing to bloat and ensuring nothing for the workforce but mediocrity. Individual excellence is frowned upon because of some ridiculous sense of it not being fair that a high performing worker is making his peers look bad simply because he can do the job better.

Our company is slowly moving work away from the union shops, and it's starting to show. 2018 was an amazing year, morale is high, and our future prospects are booming.

Depends on the industry really. In my work all the different trades work together. Not an operator available, someone else hop in the machine. Not enough carpenters, someone grab a saw and start cutting. Not enough laborers, carpenters will grab a shovel. Not enough finishers, hell yeah I can work a bull float. Only the true hardcore union people complain and they tend to not last long. Of course my company is pretty good. If you show initiative you will get advancement opportunities if you want them. If you are lazy they will drop you. Union doesn't matter
Non union companies come out and they take twice as long as us. I would milk it too if I was getting paid 10 bucks an hour to jackhammer.   Once we built an entire new bridge in 5 weeks while the non union guys were still doing patches down the way. We ended up finishing it for them in 2 days because the road had to be opened lol.
Worked on a factory renovation one winter and it was a totally different scene.   In no way shape or form does a laborer do carpenter work. They would rather we lean on a broom waiting for 8 hours. Nothing got done and the company ate it hard in overruns. I was super happy to get out of there.
I don't know how unions work in other environments. Never worked in an office or on an assembly line and never wanted to. So I can't speak for them all.   I will agree the union heads are in it for themselves just like bigwigs in these software conglomerates. They don't care about us at all as long as we pay our dues. Hell I'm convinced mine is still run by the mafia

Everything you said here...is just so counter to a union...why are you even unionized? You realize that is an out of chapter union member sees a carpenter taking work from a laborer they will raise a literal shit storm? You will all be put in the last book and never called again while "good" union employees are taking your jobs.

Good on ya for putting the job ahead of your union, but you are absolutely messing with fire here that could lead to you not working again. Assuming you are telling the truth here, which I find extremely hard to wrap my head around.

laserit · February 2019

Gdemami said:

laserit said:
Care to explain what you find lol worthy?

When it is a case of your own business, I assume, you admited unions unhealthy impact and shut the place down but somehow the impact is less unhealthy when the business is not yours?

Seriously...

There are a lot of negative aspects to a Union when you are running a business.

I respect my employee's, I have conversations with every one of them and I sincerely care about them. One of my employees who's daughter is severely autistic is going through serious marital problems. His mind understandably and obviously wasn't on his work. Whats he going to do? If his wife and him separate their both financially fucked and I can imagine that its very hard on a marriage with a severely disabled child who takes up %120 of your free time. Poor fellow was having a nervous break down, panic attacks. He was very much out of character and told me he needed to see a doctor. He saw a doctor who prescribed him some antidepressants and informed him that he couldn't work around dangerous machinery for a couple weeks as he got used to his medication. I gave him the two weeks off with pay. That two weeks pay was no skin off my ass.

It's compensating people fairly, treating them with respect and empathy that I believe gives them no desire to form a union in the first place.

That is easy for me as it is just part of my nature. It's also a lot easier to do with a small business than it would be with a big corporation.

Now you can lol at that if you so wish.

Gdemami · February 2019

laserit said:
It's compensating people fairly, treating them with respect and empathy that I believe gives them no desire to form a union in the first place.

erm, so your point is...?

MadFrenchie · February 2019

Gdemami said:

laserit said:
It's compensating people fairly, treating them with respect and empathy that I believe gives them no desire to form a union in the first place.

erm, so your point is...?

I think everyone's point when responding to you in general is: "yea, that's not the way reality works."

laserit · February 2019

Gdemami said:

laserit said:
It's compensating people fairly, treating them with respect and empathy that I believe gives them no desire to form a union in the first place.

erm, so your point is...?

My point is that when your a dick, people will usually respond in kind.

Ozmodan · February 2019

This is the sick part of our corporations, where a CEO gets a bonus for firing employees! Kotick is a well known jerk anyways. You could not get me to invest in Activision if you gave me the money.

BossChono · February 2019

Hatefull said:

BossChono said:

jonrd463 said:

Asheram said:

MadFrenchie said:

Cryomatrix said:

Ungood said:

And employers wonder why people are not loyal and hard working.. what is their motive to give you their best if you look upon them as expendable.

It goes both ways. Employees come to a new job, stick around, dick around, do whatever, and then leave when someone offers them something better. An employee isnt' like, all things being equal, i'll stay with this company because they pay less out of loyalty . . . doesn't work that way.

I think a lot of the lost loyalty comes from employers gutting things like pensions. Those are the types of long-term employment benefits that encouraged loyalty.

And thats where unions come into play. But then there are right to work states like Arizona snip the cajones of unions.

Unions are a two edged sword that are quickly outgrowing their usefulness. I work for a very large company that has sites that are both union and non-union. The non-union sites are proving to be the most productive and with the overall higher morale of the two. There are more opportunities for advancement because job roles that are traditionally union and non-union within a union shop are allowed to interact, collaborate, and innovate in a much more cooperative way. By contrast, when you have defined limits on who can do what and when, you stunt the ability for different groups to partner on projects. Instead, you introduce artificial barriers that hinder communication, and introduce all sorts of rules and regs that do nothing but increase costs without any value added.

All unions are today is just another bureaucratic layer contributing to bloat and ensuring nothing for the workforce but mediocrity. Individual excellence is frowned upon because of some ridiculous sense of it not being fair that a high performing worker is making his peers look bad simply because he can do the job better.

Our company is slowly moving work away from the union shops, and it's starting to show. 2018 was an amazing year, morale is high, and our future prospects are booming.

Depends on the industry really. In my work all the different trades work together. Not an operator available, someone else hop in the machine. Not enough carpenters, someone grab a saw and start cutting. Not enough laborers, carpenters will grab a shovel. Not enough finishers, hell yeah I can work a bull float. Only the true hardcore union people complain and they tend to not last long. Of course my company is pretty good. If you show initiative you will get advancement opportunities if you want them. If you are lazy they will drop you. Union doesn't matter
Non union companies come out and they take twice as long as us. I would milk it too if I was getting paid 10 bucks an hour to jackhammer.   Once we built an entire new bridge in 5 weeks while the non union guys were still doing patches down the way. We ended up finishing it for them in 2 days because the road had to be opened lol.
Worked on a factory renovation one winter and it was a totally different scene.   In no way shape or form does a laborer do carpenter work. They would rather we lean on a broom waiting for 8 hours. Nothing got done and the company ate it hard in overruns. I was super happy to get out of there.
I don't know how unions work in other environments. Never worked in an office or on an assembly line and never wanted to. So I can't speak for them all.   I will agree the union heads are in it for themselves just like bigwigs in these software conglomerates. They don't care about us at all as long as we pay our dues. Hell I'm convinced mine is still run by the mafia

Everything you said here...is just so counter to a union...why are you even unionized? You realize that is an out of chapter union member sees a carpenter taking work from a laborer they will raise a literal shit storm? You will all be put in the last book and never called again while "good" union employees are taking your jobs.

Good on ya for putting the job ahead of your union, but you are absolutely messing with fire here that could lead to you not working again. Assuming you are telling the truth here, which I find extremely hard to wrap my head around.

I think it's unique to my field of work i.e. road and bridge construction. The work needs to get done and the BAs (Union reps) and the bosses know it. My examples were for little tasks or for an hour or so. If I ran a machine everyday not being an operator their BA would throw an absolute fit and I may very well get blacklisted. But to move a load or something quick is fine. If I built all day long (carpenter stuff) their BA would be on the job site yelling at my foreman saying we need more carpenters or trying to sign me up. The "good" union guys tend to be the ones sitting at home on the out of work lists because they can't be flexible and no one wants their trouble. We aren't like an auto union where we cannot get fired. We can get fired if the boss is in a bad mood lol.

Unions can be good, they can be bad. I'm in one because when I started I had to be. My healthcare is actually some of the best in the state, Vacation pay is great for holidays. If I lose my job They try find me a new one. They run trade schools so workers have good skills and aren't complete bumbling idiots. They negotiate pay scales and raises. They stand up if for us if we don't get payed right... as long as we pay them lol. They often times overreach and demand too much and we don't get raises. Example operators had a contract negotiation last year and asked for the moon. All the ones working thought what they wanted was insane and it eventually led to a lockout.

It is what it is to me. They are not the evil mechanism for entitled workers to stay lazy and they are not the shining knight sent to slay the corrupt king. Yes they serve a purpose but just like any little company that gets big and suddenly is laying off 800 people while posting huge profits/revenue, they have to keep grounded not go insane with cartoonish dollar sign eyes. It's all about working together for the benefit of the companies, the workers, and the investors.

Kootur · February 2019

SomethingUnusual said:

"These jobs weren't needed" Tell that to the 800 people now without a job. They needed that job.
This corporate ass kissing and "billionaires can do no wrong" attitude is fucking appalling.

Final post ever on this site, you've been taken over by dumbass alt-right conservatives in the comments.

Bye Felecia . The jobs aren’t needed at the company. Sorry but they are a business not a charity

alkarionlog · February 2019

BossChono said:

Hatefull said:

BossChono said:

jonrd463 said:

Asheram said:

MadFrenchie said:

Cryomatrix said:

Ungood said:

And employers wonder why people are not loyal and hard working.. what is their motive to give you their best if you look upon them as expendable.

It goes both ways. Employees come to a new job, stick around, dick around, do whatever, and then leave when someone offers them something better. An employee isnt' like, all things being equal, i'll stay with this company because they pay less out of loyalty . . . doesn't work that way.

I think a lot of the lost loyalty comes from employers gutting things like pensions. Those are the types of long-term employment benefits that encouraged loyalty.

And thats where unions come into play. But then there are right to work states like Arizona snip the cajones of unions.

Unions are a two edged sword that are quickly outgrowing their usefulness. I work for a very large company that has sites that are both union and non-union. The non-union sites are proving to be the most productive and with the overall higher morale of the two. There are more opportunities for advancement because job roles that are traditionally union and non-union within a union shop are allowed to interact, collaborate, and innovate in a much more cooperative way. By contrast, when you have defined limits on who can do what and when, you stunt the ability for different groups to partner on projects. Instead, you introduce artificial barriers that hinder communication, and introduce all sorts of rules and regs that do nothing but increase costs without any value added.

All unions are today is just another bureaucratic layer contributing to bloat and ensuring nothing for the workforce but mediocrity. Individual excellence is frowned upon because of some ridiculous sense of it not being fair that a high performing worker is making his peers look bad simply because he can do the job better.

Our company is slowly moving work away from the union shops, and it's starting to show. 2018 was an amazing year, morale is high, and our future prospects are booming.

Depends on the industry really. In my work all the different trades work together. Not an operator available, someone else hop in the machine. Not enough carpenters, someone grab a saw and start cutting. Not enough laborers, carpenters will grab a shovel. Not enough finishers, hell yeah I can work a bull float. Only the true hardcore union people complain and they tend to not last long. Of course my company is pretty good. If you show initiative you will get advancement opportunities if you want them. If you are lazy they will drop you. Union doesn't matter
Non union companies come out and they take twice as long as us. I would milk it too if I was getting paid 10 bucks an hour to jackhammer.   Once we built an entire new bridge in 5 weeks while the non union guys were still doing patches down the way. We ended up finishing it for them in 2 days because the road had to be opened lol.
Worked on a factory renovation one winter and it was a totally different scene.   In no way shape or form does a laborer do carpenter work. They would rather we lean on a broom waiting for 8 hours. Nothing got done and the company ate it hard in overruns. I was super happy to get out of there.
I don't know how unions work in other environments. Never worked in an office or on an assembly line and never wanted to. So I can't speak for them all.   I will agree the union heads are in it for themselves just like bigwigs in these software conglomerates. They don't care about us at all as long as we pay our dues. Hell I'm convinced mine is still run by the mafia

Everything you said here...is just so counter to a union...why are you even unionized? You realize that is an out of chapter union member sees a carpenter taking work from a laborer they will raise a literal shit storm? You will all be put in the last book and never called again while "good" union employees are taking your jobs.

Good on ya for putting the job ahead of your union, but you are absolutely messing with fire here that could lead to you not working again. Assuming you are telling the truth here, which I find extremely hard to wrap my head around.

I think it's unique to my field of work i.e. road and bridge construction. The work needs to get done and the BAs (Union reps) and the bosses know it. My examples were for little tasks or for an hour or so. If I ran a machine everyday not being an operator their BA would throw an absolute fit and I may very well get blacklisted. But to move a load or something quick is fine. If I built all day long (carpenter stuff) their BA would be on the job site yelling at my foreman saying we need more carpenters or trying to sign me up. The "good" union guys tend to be the ones sitting at home on the out of work lists because they can't be flexible and no one wants their trouble. We aren't like an auto union where we cannot get fired. We can get fired if the boss is in a bad mood lol.
Unions can be good, they can be bad. I'm in one because when I started I had to be. My healthcare is actually some of the best in the state, Vacation pay is great for holidays. If I lose my job They try find me a new one. They run trade schools so workers have good skills and aren't complete bumbling idiots. They negotiate pay scales and raises. They stand up if for us if we don't get payed right... as long as we pay them lol. They often times overreach and demand too much and we don't get raises. Example operators had a contract negotiation last year and asked for the moon. All the ones working thought what they wanted was insane and it eventually led to a lockout.
It is what it is to me. They are not the evil mechanism for entitled workers to stay lazy and they are not the shining knight sent to slay the corrupt king. Yes they serve a purpose but just like any little company that gets big and suddenly is laying off 800 people while posting huge profits/revenue, they have to keep grounded not go insane with cartoonish dollar sign eyes.   It's all about working together for the benefit of the companies, the workers, and the investors.

actually your union is really the reason to have a union, it works as joining everyone up to keep everyone working and in better health, too bad most,(if not all in my country that is), only work to keep they pockets full

Hatefull · February 2019

Gdemami said:

laserit said:
It's compensating people fairly, treating them with respect and empathy that I believe gives them no desire to form a union in the first place.

erm, so your point is...?

Do you enjoy just looking ignorant and ill-informed? Honestly, are you just trolling or do you care to have an honest discussion? because thus far all you have done is LOL at people that have made an attempt at having a real discussion with you and ask for a point when a point has been legitimately and succinctly made.

[mod edit]

Gdemami · February 2019

laserit said:
My point is that when your a dick, people will usually respond in kind.

...so gibberish as usual. Your 'point' was noted.

Iselin · February 2019

laserit said:

Gdemami said:

laserit said:
It's compensating people fairly, treating them with respect and empathy that I believe gives them no desire to form a union in the first place.

erm, so your point is...?

My point is that when your a dick, people will usually respond in kind.

A tiny one.

gervaise1 · February 2019

Gdemami said:

gervaise1 said:
Maybe you should research e.g. matchgirls - some of whom went on strike in 1888; a grand old capitalist age.

...um, do you realize that is rather an example how uninons are unecessary, right?

Because they were able to go on strike? Which could be met with lethal force?

The plight of the matchgirls in Victorian Britain was one of the pivotal reasons that unions came into being. There were others. Created in response to circumstances that are hard to envisage today - but we don't have "pure capitalist" economies these days.

AZHokie54 · February 2019

Bless their hearts!

MadFrenchie · February 2019

gervaise1 said:

Gdemami said:

gervaise1 said:
Maybe you should research e.g. matchgirls - some of whom went on strike in 1888; a grand old capitalist age.

...um, do you realize that is rather an example how uninons are unecessary, right?

Because they were able to go on strike? Which could be met with lethal force?

The plight of the matchgirls in Victorian Britain was one of the pivotal reasons that unions came into being. There were others. Created in response to circumstances that are hard to envisage today - but we don't have "pure capitalist" economies these days.

He isn't interested in anything other than concocting a bubble reality where the only "right" is exactly what he wants it to be... Things like facts and historical events be damned. Reminds me of a rather ignorant elected cheetoh currently in office. He's about as useful to productive debate as the cheetoh, too.

Mendel · February 2019

This discussion is going nowhere. It's turned into employees versus employers, it's likely to evolve into verbal class warfare, if it hasn't already. And political discussion, with its inherent divisiveness, isn't standing far away. Nothing said or done on this forum is going to resolve this. Equability is a big issue for society, not a game site. Can we close this and get back to discussing actual games?

Gdemami · February 2019

gervaise1 said:

Because they were able to go on strike? Which could be met with lethal force?

The plight of the matchgirls in Victorian Britain was one of the pivotal reasons that unions came into being. There were others. Created in response to circumstances that are hard to envisage today - but we don't have "pure capitalist" economies these days.

Erm no.

The concept, and the very existence, of unions dates long before match girls strike. There were plenty of various factory acts and regulations taking place before the strike and it is an ongoing process lasting till today.

You seem to think that "laissez-faire" imply unlawful environment. That isn't true, on the contrary it very much encourages the protection of property, life and individual freedom - regardless whether you are an employee or an employer.

Those are your basic rights that a government guarantees to citizens and as such unions, in terms of institutional body, are unnecessary.

I have no issue with unions if they existed merely as a lobby party but they are way more. While their influence is rather mild in US, ie. in europe they are heavily rooted in legal system - a goverment must negotiate with unions and in private sector it may lead to obscurities such as unions getting a representation on a board of directors of corporate entity, etc...

Unions are an abomination to democratic system.

Kootur · February 2019

MadFrenchie said:

gervaise1 said:

Gdemami said:

gervaise1 said:
Maybe you should research e.g. matchgirls - some of whom went on strike in 1888; a grand old capitalist age.

...um, do you realize that is rather an example how uninons are unecessary, right?

Because they were able to go on strike? Which could be met with lethal force?

The plight of the matchgirls in Victorian Britain was one of the pivotal reasons that unions came into being. There were others. Created in response to circumstances that are hard to envisage today - but we don't have "pure capitalist" economies these days.

He isn't interested in anything other than concocting a bubble reality where the only "right" is exactly what he wants it to be... Things like facts and historical events be damned. Reminds me of a rather ignorant elected cheetoh currently in office. He's about as useful to productive debate as the cheetoh, too.

That’s president to you.

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After 800 Blizzard Employees Lose Their Jobs, Game Workers Unite Calls for Kotick Firing - MMORPG.c

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After 800 Blizzard Employees Lose Their Jobs, Game Workers Unite Calls for Kotick Firing - MMORPG.c

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