I was watching a Pantheon gameplay today and was thinking "is this really the future?"....I played EQ for a few years and it had a great community, but I really don't want to do that again. Pantheon looked boring as ever as i watched 6 players just stand and beat on a mob for like 10 minutes. The younger players aren't going to go for that. They are used to fast gameplay and instant gratification. THe BRs bring them that, not the MMOs.
Yes I know there is still some MMORPGs doing well. But when is the last time there was one that was hyped as much as some of the all-time bigs? The most recent one that comes to my mind is TESO but it's been almost 6 years already. Yes there are probably some good ones still coming out every year, but I'm sure they are nowhere near as popular as RuneScape or WoW were in the good ol' days of arround 2005-2010. It just seems like MMORPGs now have a lot of difficulties to attract younger people, it feels like most of the population is 20+ years old (since at 19 I always feel like the young one in clans and group chats).
So, do you see MMORPGs as a genre making a comeback with some new big names in the next few years? Or will the success and money will all go to Fortnite-like games?
I hope not, MMORPGs was good when it was not mainstream, so maybe they will become good again when they stop being mainstream
Asian MMO market are thriving It's the western one that are stagnated.
The MOBILE MMO market in Asia is thriving. But even with a shrinking playerbase, the PC MMO market over there still is in a better situation revenue wise than the western counterpart.
Not unless the genre evolves. The technology in MMOs has been constant. There needs to be a breakthrough.
[[ DEAD ]] - Funny - I deleted my account on the site using the cancel account button. Forum user is separate and still exists with no way of deleting it. Delete it admins. Do it, this ends now.
I was watching a Pantheon gameplay today and was thinking "is this really the future?"....I played EQ for a few years and it had a great community, but I really don't want to do that again. Pantheon looked boring as ever as i watched 6 players just stand and beat on a mob for like 10 minutes. The younger players aren't going to go for that. They are used to fast gameplay and instant gratification. THe BRs bring them that, not the MMOs.
I have to say, "Thank Goodness!" MMORPGs are not for everyone and shouldn't be. Who needs "young" overactive button clickers that only want to "beat the game" around? I certainly don't. Since there are 100 games for them to every 1 slower paced game, why do they "need" another one?
The sad part is, I'm not sure I will play Pantheon. I'll certainly look into it and watch what is happening, but there has to be more than the slow combat to get me interested. I don't play MMOs for the combat
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I think one data point is the Curt Schilling matter. Here was a guy who is living my dream - to have lots of money and invest it in a mmorpg that would reflect what he felt was an awesome game.
And I have no reason to doubt that it would have been a great game, except for who knows what caused the wheels to come off.
The answer to that collapse is easy, poor financial and project management.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Yes I know there is still some MMORPGs doing well. But when is the last time there was one that was hyped as much as some of the all-time bigs? The most recent one that comes to my mind is TESO but it's been almost 6 years already. Yes there are probably some good ones still coming out every year, but I'm sure they are nowhere near as popular as RuneScape or WoW were in the good ol' days of arround 2005-2010. It just seems like MMORPGs now have a lot of difficulties to attract younger people, it feels like most of the population is 20+ years old (since at 19 I always feel like the young one in clans and group chats).
So, do you see MMORPGs as a genre making a comeback with some new big names in the next few years? Or will the success and money will all go to Fortnite-like games?
Big names? No.
I feel like MMORPGs are moving in the direction of niche's. They'll all appeal to their own small playerbases and that'll be it.
World of Warcraft being one of the largest, if not the largest, MMO's out there may make a comeback. FF14 has a new expansion coming out in summer(?) which will see a large chunk of it's playerbase returning.
I have faith in both WoW and FF14 to keep their large playerbases running for the next couple of years. But I'm not clairvoyant, I didn't think Blizzard would become so disconnected from their playerbase and FF14 got hella boring for me halfway through Stormblood...
How many different versions of chess does one need to enjoy chess? If you like chess, own a game of chess, that's all you need.
The very first MMOs weren't incredibly hyped or mass-marketed... people stumbled across them due to player word of mouth. There wasn't a need for a lot of them because people usually played just the one they happened to start at the time.
Game hopping became a thing as people bored of their chosen game. Now remember, chess is still chess no matter how you dress it up, so all that game hoping yielded exactly what one would expect... more boredom.
People used to think Pong was the end that beat all... who still plays it? Times change, people change, games and genres change. Oh sure, you can still find Monopoly or Chutes and Ladders still sold today, but they aren't any where near as popular as they once were. People toss them to the side just as easily and quickly as they do MMOs.
It has zero to do with how much money you throw at it, who is doing the work, the quality of the work... it has everything to do with burnout on the genre. Maybe it will come back like bell bottom pants and platform shoes in about 20 years or so... by then, you won't care, but the people born then will never have played one before... and that my friend, is the key ingredient to anything new... it has to be new to them. MMOs aren't new to you, no matter how many coats of paint they put on it.
How many different versions of chess does one need to enjoy chess? If you like chess, own a game of chess, that's all you need.
The very first MMOs weren't incredibly hyped or mass-marketed... people stumbled across them due to player word of mouth. There wasn't a need for a lot of them because people usually played just the one they happened to start at the time.
Game hopping became a thing as people bored of their chosen game. Now remember, chess is still chess no matter how you dress it up, so all that game hoping yielded exactly what one would expect... more boredom.
People used to think Pong was the end that beat all... who still plays it? Times change, people change, games and genres change. Oh sure, you can still find Monopoly or Chutes and Ladders still sold today, but they aren't any where near as popular as they once were. People toss them to the side just as easily and quickly as they do MMOs.
It has zero to do with how much money you throw at it, who is doing the work, the quality of the work... it has everything to do with burnout on the genre. Maybe it will come back like bell bottom pants and platform shoes in about 20 years or so... by then, you won't care, but the people born then will never have played one before... and that my friend, is the key ingredient to anything new... it has to be new to them. MMOs aren't new to you, no matter how many coats of paint they put on it.
MMORPG are just in a weird space. The traditional themepark model has been beat to death so it needs innovation. Difficulty and expense being huge barrier without the needed risky innovation.
The revenue stream dipping into microtransactions is a boon and race to the bottom. It allows games that failed in the old model to survive by pleasing the rich and low enough barrier that the poor and young can play.
Problem is it was a market correction that has caused lingering market saturation. With a long development cycle we might not see new games for years. Not until these games get small enough or close.
You also have a ton of game hopping because arguably the barrier is too low. F2P also caused most games to comply to the competition. It also has effected the quality of games as they must compromise gameplay to sell cash shop items. You then have other genres rise up that do most of what MMORPG do better in pieces. Far easier to make and more direct.
Lots of things are working against the genre. I think finding away to have developer content being malleable in a sandbox way should be the future or MMORPG maker that can be done by small teams. Likely won't be a revival in less than 12-15 years.
How many different versions of chess does one need to enjoy chess? If you like chess, own a game of chess, that's all you need.
The very first MMOs weren't incredibly hyped or mass-marketed... people stumbled across them due to player word of mouth. There wasn't a need for a lot of them because people usually played just the one they happened to start at the time.
Game hopping became a thing as people bored of their chosen game. Now remember, chess is still chess no matter how you dress it up, so all that game hoping yielded exactly what one would expect... more boredom.
People used to think Pong was the end that beat all... who still plays it? Times change, people change, games and genres change. Oh sure, you can still find Monopoly or Chutes and Ladders still sold today, but they aren't any where near as popular as they once were. People toss them to the side just as easily and quickly as they do MMOs.
It has zero to do with how much money you throw at it, who is doing the work, the quality of the work... it has everything to do with burnout on the genre. Maybe it will come back like bell bottom pants and platform shoes in about 20 years or so... by then, you won't care, but the people born then will never have played one before... and that my friend, is the key ingredient to anything new... it has to be new to them. MMOs aren't new to you, no matter how many coats of paint they put on it.
MMORPG are just in a weird space. The traditional themepark model has been beat to death so it needs innovation. Difficulty and expense being huge barrier without the needed risky innovation.
The revenue stream dipping into microtransactions is a boon and race to the bottom. It allows games that failed in the old model to survive by pleasing the rich and low enough barrier that the poor and young can play.
Problem is it was a market correction that has caused lingering market saturation. With a long development cycle we might not see new games for years. Not until these games get small enough or close.
You also have a ton of game hopping because arguably the barrier is too low. F2P also caused most games to comply to the competition. It also has effected the quality of games as they must compromise gameplay to sell cash shop items. You then have other genres rise up that do most of what MMORPG do better in pieces. Far easier to make and more direct.
Lots of things are working against the genre. I think finding away to have developer content being malleable in a sandbox way should be the future or MMORPG maker that can be done by small teams. Likely won't be a revival in less than 12-15 years.
The more I think about the future of MMORPGs, the more I believe that there is a future in MMORPGs. Only, it won't involve anyone familiar with prior stalwarts of the genre.
Customers are important to businesses. The entire MMORPG customer base is at best a niche market. On top of that, we're a fractious bunch. We have allegiances into the past, allegiances that are difficult to overcome. Without a source of customers, businesses have no real incentive to build in our space when the money is clearly elsewhere.
I don't think the future of MMORPGs lies with the independents. They are mostly looking to pick up the scraps of the earlier successes, and appear too linked to the old ways of doing an MMORPG and the old customer base to instigate any real change.
Instead, I think we're already seeing the future of the genre. It may be in Overwatch, Fortnight and others. Like Blizzard did with Warcraft, I expect the next major attempt to create a new MMORPG by building on one of these new IPs. It would not surprise me if one of these major IPs were to try to follow Blizzard's model, and convert their existing player base to a 'new, deeper game experience' with a full MMORPG product.
That satisfies the business' major concerns -- 'where are my players'? They already have a relationship with them. It isn't a problem of acquiring new customers, it becomes a problem of selling existing customers a new product. And if a specific business model makes more money than another, expect to see the most profitable business model, no matter how much the customer complains about it. P2P, F2P, or something new. Inclusion (more players playing) pays the bills.
I don't know if this is probable, but I just can't dismiss the idea entirely. When the next generation of MMORPGs arrives, I don't know if it will be something I would want to play. Eleven years brings us to 2030, a date which has always been the realm of science fiction. Soon, it will be reality.
I only think we're looking in the wrong direction when we look at independents to drive the genre forward.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
How many different versions of chess does one need to enjoy chess? If you like chess, own a game of chess, that's all you need.
The very first MMOs weren't incredibly hyped or mass-marketed... people stumbled across them due to player word of mouth. There wasn't a need for a lot of them because people usually played just the one they happened to start at the time.
Game hopping became a thing as people bored of their chosen game. Now remember, chess is still chess no matter how you dress it up, so all that game hoping yielded exactly what one would expect... more boredom.
People used to think Pong was the end that beat all... who still plays it? Times change, people change, games and genres change. Oh sure, you can still find Monopoly or Chutes and Ladders still sold today, but they aren't any where near as popular as they once were. People toss them to the side just as easily and quickly as they do MMOs.
It has zero to do with how much money you throw at it, who is doing the work, the quality of the work... it has everything to do with burnout on the genre. Maybe it will come back like bell bottom pants and platform shoes in about 20 years or so... by then, you won't care, but the people born then will never have played one before... and that my friend, is the key ingredient to anything new... it has to be new to them. MMOs aren't new to you, no matter how many coats of paint they put on it.
MMORPG are just in a weird space. The traditional themepark model has been beat to death so it needs innovation. Difficulty and expense being huge barrier without the needed risky innovation.
The revenue stream dipping into microtransactions is a boon and race to the bottom. It allows games that failed in the old model to survive by pleasing the rich and low enough barrier that the poor and young can play.
Problem is it was a market correction that has caused lingering market saturation. With a long development cycle we might not see new games for years. Not until these games get small enough or close.
You also have a ton of game hopping because arguably the barrier is too low. F2P also caused most games to comply to the competition. It also has effected the quality of games as they must compromise gameplay to sell cash shop items. You then have other genres rise up that do most of what MMORPG do better in pieces. Far easier to make and more direct.
Lots of things are working against the genre. I think finding away to have developer content being malleable in a sandbox way should be the future or MMORPG maker that can be done by small teams. Likely won't be a revival in less than 12-15 years.
The more I think about the future of MMORPGs, the more I believe that there is a future in MMORPGs. Only, it won't involve anyone familiar with prior stalwarts of the genre.
Customers are important to businesses. The entire MMORPG customer base is at best a niche market. On top of that, we're a fractious bunch. We have allegiances into the past, allegiances that are difficult to overcome. Without a source of customers, businesses have no real incentive to build in our space when the money is clearly elsewhere.
I don't think the future of MMORPGs lies with the independents. They are mostly looking to pick up the scraps of the earlier successes, and appear too linked to the old ways of doing an MMORPG and the old customer base to instigate any real change.
Instead, I think we're already seeing the future of the genre. It may be in Overwatch, Fortnight and others. Like Blizzard did with Warcraft, I expect the next major attempt to create a new MMORPG by building on one of these new IPs. It would not surprise me if one of these major IPs were to try to follow Blizzard's model, and convert their existing player base to a 'new, deeper game experience' with a full MMORPG product.
That satisfies the business' major concerns -- 'where are my players'? They already have a relationship with them. It isn't a problem of acquiring new customers, it becomes a problem of selling existing customers a new product. And if a specific business model makes more money than another, expect to see the most profitable business model, no matter how much the customer complains about it. P2P, F2P, or something new. Inclusion (more players playing) pays the bills.
I don't know if this is probable, but I just can't dismiss the idea entirely. When the next generation of MMORPGs arrives, I don't know if it will be something I would want to play. Eleven years brings us to 2030, a date which has always been the realm of science fiction. Soon, it will be reality.
I only think we're looking in the wrong direction when we look at independents to drive the genre forward.
Yeah I think making fun things for you to do has been troublesome for MMORPG. Combat is the simple most dominant current thing we do. I am pro combat but there is only so many ways you repackage combat as your main feature.
The MMORPG doesn't have to be an RPG in the sense of single player ones. It is more than a single player RPG. The persistent world and large number of players can set up unique gameplay. They can have roleplay by allowing people to play roles in a world.
Questing, gear, leveling... you know progression focused MMORPG are so shallow. I think people are so caught up with ths term RPG and what it must be. One reason why I think MMORPG is a bad description of what we play. Sets expectations and barriers mentally for developers and players.
These games are about persistent worlds and large number of players. That is all that is unique. The worlds have been neglected to chase single player gaming, combat and etc to be RPG. I think if people ever start focusing on things unique to MMO and stop being bad single player RPG we might have a revival.
Lots of interesting thoughts in this thread, and lots of talk about the market this and the market that. While that makes a whole lot of sense it really doesn't answer the question for me.
I have the time (I am retired and pretty much house bound), I have the cash and I have the interest in playing a very large, very multiplayer high fantasy PvE game. But the games out there are either old favorites that have been FUBARed or 'action' twitchy games.
Now you can say "well your screwed" and I will have to scratch my ears and agree. Meanwhile back to playing "Hearts of Iron 2" (because 3 & 4 are total rubbish) a game from 2005 from another genre that also has pretty much ceased to exist.
I wish that technology would make it much easier for Devs to create MMO's. I'm sure it has improved, but has it improved enough that it doesn't take 5 years to create an MMORPG?
I'm hoping that technology improves enough that a dev can throw out a fully featured MMO in no time...and thus more will be made. I have no hope that interest will improve enough that AAA devs want to spend 5 years making one.
I wish that technology would make it much easier for Devs to create MMO's. I'm sure it has improved, but has it improved enough that it doesn't take 5 years to create an MMORPG?
I'm hoping that technology improves enough that a dev can throw out a fully featured MMO in no time...and thus more will be made. I have no hope that interest will improve enough that AAA devs want to spend 5 years making one.
The reverse is happening I think. It seemed to take more time and cost went up...
I wish that technology would make it much easier for Devs to create MMO's. I'm sure it has improved, but has it improved enough that it doesn't take 5 years to create an MMORPG?
I'm hoping that technology improves enough that a dev can throw out a fully featured MMO in no time...and thus more will be made. I have no hope that interest will improve enough that AAA devs want to spend 5 years making one.
The reverse is happening I think. It seemed to take more time and cost went up...
It's the graphics, voice over etc....all very expensive window deessings...
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Only when Blizzard decides to make WoW 2 or Diablo MMORPG
Nope, Blizzard's time has passed. Maybe a Witcher MMO by CD Projekt RED, if they can replicate what blizzard did in 2004. It can't be a classic mmo formula. It needs to be new and innovative.
there really is no excitement for the future, Even if all the games from the 2000s werent your cup of tea there was excitement. Shit i would give anything to have LOTRO, WOW Lich King, Warhammer and AOC quality MMORPGs to be on the horizon in the next 2 years. All of these were released within 1.5 years of each other. I look at the future now and not even 1 game in the next 4 years give me 10% of the excitement as anyone of those games.
I wish that technology would make it much easier for Devs to create MMO's. I'm sure it has improved, but has it improved enough that it doesn't take 5 years to create an MMORPG?
I'm hoping that technology improves enough that a dev can throw out a fully featured MMO in no time...and thus more will be made. I have no hope that interest will improve enough that AAA devs want to spend 5 years making one.
Everything in game development, from story telling to visual graphics to level design, is a form of art. Good art takes time and patience. Having developers rushed to make games faster is the symptom. Star Citizen as an example, if it is ever finished and released, would be an amazing game. However it seems like they are looking for any excuse that they can find to not finish the game.
Comments
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
The sad part is, I'm not sure I will play Pantheon. I'll certainly look into it and watch what is happening, but there has to be more than the slow combat to get me interested. I don't play MMOs for the combat
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
There was plenty of money, they just misspent it.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I feel like MMORPGs are moving in the direction of niche's. They'll all appeal to their own small playerbases and that'll be it.
World of Warcraft being one of the largest, if not the largest, MMO's out there may make a comeback. FF14 has a new expansion coming out in summer(?) which will see a large chunk of it's playerbase returning.
I have faith in both WoW and FF14 to keep their large playerbases running for the next couple of years. But I'm not clairvoyant, I didn't think Blizzard would become so disconnected from their playerbase and FF14 got hella boring for me halfway through Stormblood...
How many different versions of chess does one need to enjoy chess? If you like chess, own a game of chess, that's all you need.
The very first MMOs weren't incredibly hyped or mass-marketed... people stumbled across them due to player word of mouth. There wasn't a need for a lot of them because people usually played just the one they happened to start at the time.
Game hopping became a thing as people bored of their chosen game. Now remember, chess is still chess no matter how you dress it up, so all that game hoping yielded exactly what one would expect... more boredom.
People used to think Pong was the end that beat all... who still plays it? Times change, people change, games and genres change. Oh sure, you can still find Monopoly or Chutes and Ladders still sold today, but they aren't any where near as popular as they once were. People toss them to the side just as easily and quickly as they do MMOs.
It has zero to do with how much money you throw at it, who is doing the work, the quality of the work... it has everything to do with burnout on the genre. Maybe it will come back like bell bottom pants and platform shoes in about 20 years or so... by then, you won't care, but the people born then will never have played one before... and that my friend, is the key ingredient to anything new... it has to be new to them. MMOs aren't new to you, no matter how many coats of paint they put on it.
The traditional themepark model has been beat to death so it needs innovation. Difficulty and expense being huge barrier without the needed risky innovation.
The revenue stream dipping into microtransactions is a boon and race to the bottom. It allows games that failed in the old model to survive by pleasing the rich and low enough barrier that the poor and young can play.
Problem is it was a market correction that has caused lingering market saturation. With a long development cycle we might not see new games for years. Not until these games get small enough or close.
You also have a ton of game hopping because arguably the barrier is too low. F2P also caused most games to comply to the competition. It also has effected the quality of games as they must compromise gameplay to sell cash shop items. You then have other genres rise up that do most of what MMORPG do better in pieces. Far easier to make and more direct.
Lots of things are working against the genre. I think finding away to have developer content being malleable in a sandbox way should be the future or MMORPG maker that can be done by small teams. Likely won't be a revival in less than 12-15 years.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
The MMORPG doesn't have to be an RPG in the sense of single player ones. It is more than a single player RPG. The persistent world and large number of players can set up unique gameplay. They can have roleplay by allowing people to play roles in a world.
Questing, gear, leveling... you know progression focused MMORPG are so shallow. I think people are so caught up with ths term RPG and what it must be. One reason why I think MMORPG is a bad description of what we play. Sets expectations and barriers mentally for developers and players.
These games are about persistent worlds and large number of players. That is all that is unique. The worlds have been neglected to chase single player gaming, combat and etc to be RPG. I think if people ever start focusing on things unique to MMO and stop being bad single player RPG we might have a revival.
I have the time (I am retired and pretty much house bound), I have the cash and I have the interest in playing a very large, very multiplayer high fantasy PvE game. But the games out there are either old favorites that have been FUBARed or 'action' twitchy games.
Now you can say "well your screwed" and I will have to scratch my ears and agree. Meanwhile back to playing "Hearts of Iron 2" (because 3 & 4 are total rubbish) a game from 2005 from another genre that also has pretty much ceased to exist.
I'm hoping that technology improves enough that a dev can throw out a fully featured MMO in no time...and thus more will be made. I have no hope that interest will improve enough that AAA devs want to spend 5 years making one.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon