It's irrelevant. I'm more against having race locked classes, particularly if the race looks like Lalafell from FFXIV, or the like. But even that barely registers.
Not a fan of gender locking unless it for some lore related reason.... that said most gender locking is due to devs being too lazy to create male and female assets so to speak. I also dislike race locking classes...it's so...meh.
I think it just speaks to lazy half arsed design to save on $$$.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
And again my old schoolteachers are proven wrong: there ARE stupid questions.
The question is clearly not "why am I against genderlocked classes".
The question is obviously "why the frak would you tolerate genderlocked classes".
And theres no good reason to.
Its an arbritary and stupid restriction that implies female characters probably get very idiotic and revealing outfits and cannot play any of the cool classes, only stuff like rogue or healer, while males get the stereotypical male classes ...
etc etc etc
Its so obvious why do I bother writing it down.
I would NOT tolerate genderlocked classes.
I know no game with genderlocked classes that I would even consider a RPG.
Heck I know plenty of games that dont actually qualify for being a RPG and still dont have genderlocked classes. For example the Diablo line of games.
P.s.: A female only Valkyr class would be OK. They are handpicked by a goddess and get special abilities like riding unicorns, so it makes sense that they can only be females.
One could also base a class on being eunuch, then that one would be male only.
Other than virgins/unicorns and eunuchs, I cant think of anything else that would really qualify though.
And I wouldnt tolerate it however if somebody would make a generic
class like Paladin, Necromancer etc limited to a single gender. That
just doesnt fly with me.
And please dont bore me with "but in medieval times ...". I play FANTASY, not medieval times, thank you very much. Sure, fantasy is often inspired by medieval times, but its not at all medieval times. They didnt actually have magic or dragons or elves etc back then. And I dont want to play a medieval times simulation, like this bugfest of Gothic games was, because first of all OH MY GOD those times have been depressing and second of all it tells me absolutely nothing.
P.p.s.: For example in Vanguard my class, race and gender choices have been:
Warrior - male Lesser Giant
Paladin - female Highelf
Dread Knight - female Qaliathari (Arab Human)
Ranger - Halfling, female
Cleric - male Darkelf
Shaman - male Goblin
Disciple - (multiple of different races and genders)
Blood Mage - male Darkelf
Sorcerer - female Darkelf
Necromancer - female Qalathari (Arab Human)
Each of these also had a name I carefully chose to make it appropiate. For example my arab humans really got arabic names, my Darkelves got actual drow names, etc.
I also had backstories to them. I had created them as a wholesome person.
There is no way I would do the same in a game that has genderlocked classes. There is no way I would tolerate that in any game I would want to play longterm, such as a MMO.
P.p.p.s.: Oh and yes that was the status in the late game, when I had yielded and gotten a second account, so I could have more characters. Before I could only have eight of them, at maximum. Also later they allowed up to 16 (or maybe 20? dont remember exactly anymroe) characters per account, if you "bought" additional slots through the fremium shop. Never bought any of this ingame money myself, but as a subscribed player, I got a certain amount of this ingame money every month and spent it mostly on getting these additional slots, so I had a real army of level 10 characters in the end.
I prefer race and sex locked classes. It adds flavor and uniqueness to the world.
In Warhammer online, it annoyed me to no end that there were female Knights and dwarfs, and male sorcerers. I suppose I should be grateful we didn't get something even more absurd like female orcs or male Witch Elves.
Shadowbane had a lot of race and sex restrictions on classes and disciplines. It created unique builds and kept things interesting. If anything I wish there had been more restrictions.
AS folks said: if there is lore, then lore dictates. Example: Dwarves in Lotro can be males only. Just because females are too rare and mostly do not travel. Beornings may be both, but when in bear form - probably all are alike.
If there was game telling that Hunter can be only Grumpy Elf female and Warlock - only Minotaur Male, I would wonder, yet agree.
No problems with it, but I hear it's a pretty hot social topic. If it's not based on Earth, with earth based humans, why would I care?
I feel the same about "evil" or "good" locked races/creatures. Different origins, different history, different belief/religious systems.
It's a made up worldfor goodness sake.
The customization folks I can understand. The social INequality folks, not.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
It doesn't bother me....99% of the time we only see the back anyway....
ESPECIALLY then it is important! Nothing beats a pretty bum
/Cheers, Lahnmir
It's many times why I play a female character
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I prefer the distinction that specific gender, race or faction locking adds. Just think about The Wheel Of Time game. When it comes out I envision Aes Sedai to always be female. If they put in the ability for a guy to be one just in the name of diversity they will utterly ruin the game.
Let games create a rich background of societies and cultures.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I prefer the distinction that specific gender, race or faction locking adds. Just think about The Wheel Of Time game. When it comes out I envision Aes Sedai to always be female. If they put in the ability for a guy to be one just in the name of diversity they will utterly ruin the game.
Let games create a rich background of societies and cultures.
That would be a lore reason tbh..also there were male's they were just killed or locked away until Rand created the black tower and cleaned the taint from the source.
Let's be real though more often than not, in video games, gender locking is due to trying to save money or simply lazy development and not to enrich the lore or background societies and culture.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
I hate gender-locked things. Lore-based or not, they are institutionalized sexism. You always see them in a cluster with other sexism or heteronormative problems, like when a game only allows male-female marriages, or when a game only allows male characters to carry a passenger on their mounts, or when female armor is all chainmail bikinis while male armor is all full-coverage, and the same piece of gear looks completely different on male vs. female characters... yuck. Oh, or games where female characters only come in slender hourglass shape, while men come in muscleman, dwarf, and maaaybe skinny mage or rogue. Ugh.
I want to help design and develop a PvE-focused, solo-friendly, sandpark MMO which combines crafting, monster hunting, and story. So PM me if you are starting one.
In cases of games where "Graphics Matter", it does a good job of identifying underfunded teams. Especially true of the K-MMO genre, if the team can't afford to double up on character models then they can't afford to keep you entertained.
Some games I've played have had very Dimorphic races. Or have reversed roles like Drow stereotypically do. It's mostly just a story and flavor thing that's more interesting than annoying usually.
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
Gender locking nameless faceless classes, especially if you can change their appearance and give them a name that you choose - Utter bullshit.
Gender locking specific characters with back stories - Welllll, duh.
Now, that being said, I have some caveats to the first one. If there's a really good story reason why there are only male and females of that class, then I'm on board with it. Maybe the Knight's of the Red Crescent come from a civilization that looks down on females, treat them like second class citizens and don't allow them to serve in their ranks. Ok, that's a good lore reason.
Maybe the Sisters of the Golden Dawn are a witch coven that kills any man who enters their sacred grove and no one but women can learn their secrets. Ok, that's a good lore reason.
But Only Non-Descript females with no back stories are allowed to use long bows in our game because *reasons*. Bullshit. I wouldn't play your game with someone else's free time.
I hate gender-locked things. Lore-based or not, they are institutionalized sexism. You always see them in a cluster with other sexism or heteronormative problems, like when a game only allows male-female marriages, or when a game only allows male characters to carry a passenger on their mounts, or when female armor is all chainmail bikinis while male armor is all full-coverage, and the same piece of gear looks completely different on male vs. female characters... yuck. Oh, or games where female characters only come in slender hourglass shape, while men come in muscleman, dwarf, and maaaybe skinny mage or rogue. Ugh.
This is not sexism. Men cannot be pregnant. If they could, there will not be men and women anymore. All the people will be one sex. As for the gender lock in the games. The gender is RP. So it is completely fine to be locked to certain abilities, skins and skills. And the locking is everywhere. I do not see why you notice it only in the gender. Check armor skins, you may like certain skills and stats related to your gear, but completely to dislike the look. This is more common and much bigger problem in the games than locking of the gender, but nobody complains. Players just want the best gear. Then the publishers notice that, and ask developers for more ugly skins.
I'm not sure why pregnancy is relevant, since MMO characters in general cannot be pregnant. Have you ever seen a graphical MMO where player characters could get pregnant? But lore-wise in a fantasy or science fiction game there's no reason why men couldn't be pregnant, no reason there couldn't be a race where everyone is a hermaphrodite, no reason why there couldn't be a race with 3 or 4 sexes. Look at Rift, they have a race of fish-people called Skelf, and all skelf are born male, then they compete until one establishes dominance and, as a biological consequence, turns female and becomes the new queen of the race. This is based on the fact that some actual fish species have this reproductive pattern.
As far as gear, you must be thinking of older games; most recent games have some kind of costume or tailoring system allowing a player to wear one piece of gear for its stats but change the appearance. I would certainly complain if there was a game where all mage gear was pretty and all rogue gear was ugly, or something like that.
I want to help design and develop a PvE-focused, solo-friendly, sandpark MMO which combines crafting, monster hunting, and story. So PM me if you are starting one.
I hate gender-locked things. Lore-based or not, they are institutionalized sexism. You always see them in a cluster with other sexism or heteronormative problems, like when a game only allows male-female marriages, or when a game only allows male characters to carry a passenger on their mounts, or when female armor is all chainmail bikinis while male armor is all full-coverage, and the same piece of gear looks completely different on male vs. female characters... yuck. Oh, or games where female characters only come in slender hourglass shape, while men come in muscleman, dwarf, and maaaybe skinny mage or rogue. Ugh.
And I quote from my previous post: "It's a made up worldfor goodness sake."
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I hate gender-locked things. Lore-based or not, they are institutionalized sexism. You always see them in a cluster with other sexism or heteronormative problems, like when a game only allows male-female marriages, or when a game only allows male characters to carry a passenger on their mounts, or when female armor is all chainmail bikinis while male armor is all full-coverage, and the same piece of gear looks completely different on male vs. female characters... yuck. Oh, or games where female characters only come in slender hourglass shape, while men come in muscleman, dwarf, and maaaybe skinny mage or rogue. Ugh.
So your saying you want fat ugly people to play...there are games out there you can do that.
I'm not sure where to even begin responding to this Okay let's start with the fact that attractiveness is not some unified objective thing, and fat absolutely does no equal ugly. "Skiny hourglass" is not the only attractive female shape; it's quite common to hear men express a preference for someone who is thicc (i.e. moderately fat in a curvy way) or has a big booty. There are also men who like petite delicate looking women and men who like strong athletic looking women.
And yes, there are some games out there where NPCs have assorted body types and the player can too. But MMORPGs, as games which tend to have a heavy focus on appearance customization, should logically include body type customization since they are already doing hair, skin, tattoos, clothing, mounts, houses...
I want to help design and develop a PvE-focused, solo-friendly, sandpark MMO which combines crafting, monster hunting, and story. So PM me if you are starting one.
I hate gender-locked things. Lore-based or not, they are institutionalized sexism. You always see them in a cluster with other sexism or heteronormative problems, like when a game only allows male-female marriages, or when a game only allows male characters to carry a passenger on their mounts, or when female armor is all chainmail bikinis while male armor is all full-coverage, and the same piece of gear looks completely different on male vs. female characters... yuck. Oh, or games where female characters only come in slender hourglass shape, while men come in muscleman, dwarf, and maaaybe skinny mage or rogue. Ugh.
And I quote from my previous post: "It's a made up worldfor goodness sake."
The game's systems, such as making gear look different on male vs. female characters or a global bias against skimpy male armor or against full-coverage female armor aren't generally going to be the result of any of the fictional cultures portrayed in a game. Most MMOs contain at least 3 or 4 different cultures which would logically be expected to disagree with each other about fashion and gender stereotypes.
I want to help design and develop a PvE-focused, solo-friendly, sandpark MMO which combines crafting, monster hunting, and story. So PM me if you are starting one.
I hate gender-locked things. Lore-based or not, they are institutionalized sexism. You always see them in a cluster with other sexism or heteronormative problems, like when a game only allows male-female marriages, or when a game only allows male characters to carry a passenger on their mounts, or when female armor is all chainmail bikinis while male armor is all full-coverage, and the same piece of gear looks completely different on male vs. female characters... yuck. Oh, or games where female characters only come in slender hourglass shape, while men come in muscleman, dwarf, and maaaybe skinny mage or rogue. Ugh.
And I quote from my previous post: "It's a made up worldfor goodness sake."
The game's systems, such as making gear look different on male vs. female characters or a global bias against skimpy male armor or against full-coverage female armor aren't generally going to be the result of any of the fictional cultures portrayed in a game. Most MMOs contain at least 3 or 4 different cultures which would logically be expected to disagree with each other about fashion and gender stereotypes.
Kind of like ALL the years prior to 1960? You do realize that biologically, males and females ARE different, yes? Look at the physical differences between male record holders in sports and female record holders. There is a noticeable discrepancy.
Also, prior to the 7 billion inhabiting the planet now, population was a grave concern. Since women can only produce 1 baby in 9 months, they were held precious and protected. This is a commonality among OLD cultures. Gays did not reproduce. They cannot, without intervention.
Please, leave your "Earth World" baggage at all games' login screen
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
It depends entirely on the implementation, world, and lore. Diablo 2 had gender-locked classes and I did not mind it back then, as it was thematic and appropriate given the world and lore. In Diablo 3 they unlocked the gender of most of those classes, and I did not necessarily think it was an improvement by itself. Gender-locked classes affect a player's ability to customize their gameplay experience and character's aesthetics. Does anyone question Link's from The Legend of Zelda's gender-lock? However, with all of that said...when it comes to Role-Playing Games, specifically MMORPGs we have come to expect a level of customization during character creation.
I won't assume that there is any conscious sexist intent when it comes to gender locked classes. But I won't rule out it could exist, nor that unconscious sexism should go unrecognized.
More likely though, IMO, this more often has to do with cutting budget corners on animations, skins, armor, weapons, etc. Call me against it if you insist, but if a game can't be bothered to do what most games do just on basic gaming principal, then I'm not interested in the game.
Comments
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
ARPG = im fine with it
MMO = cant have gender locked
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
http://www.mmoblogg.wordpress.com
I feel the same about "evil" or "good" locked races/creatures. Different origins, different history, different belief/religious systems.
It's a made up world for goodness sake.
The customization folks I can understand. The social INequality folks, not.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Let games create a rich background of societies and cultures.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
Gender locking specific characters with back stories - Welllll, duh.
Now, that being said, I have some caveats to the first one. If there's a really good story reason why there are only male and females of that class, then I'm on board with it. Maybe the Knight's of the Red Crescent come from a civilization that looks down on females, treat them like second class citizens and don't allow them to serve in their ranks. Ok, that's a good lore reason.
Maybe the Sisters of the Golden Dawn are a witch coven that kills any man who enters their sacred grove and no one but women can learn their secrets. Ok, that's a good lore reason.
But Only Non-Descript females with no back stories are allowed to use long bows in our game because *reasons*. Bullshit. I wouldn't play your game with someone else's free time.
As far as gear, you must be thinking of older games; most recent games have some kind of costume or tailoring system allowing a player to wear one piece of gear for its stats but change the appearance. I would certainly complain if there was a game where all mage gear was pretty and all rogue gear was ugly, or something like that.
"It's a made up world for goodness sake."
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
And yes, there are some games out there where NPCs have assorted body types and the player can too. But MMORPGs, as games which tend to have a heavy focus on appearance customization, should logically include body type customization since they are already doing hair, skin, tattoos, clothing, mounts, houses...
Also, prior to the 7 billion inhabiting the planet now, population was a grave concern. Since women can only produce 1 baby in 9 months, they were held precious and protected. This is a commonality among OLD cultures. Gays did not reproduce. They cannot, without intervention.
Please, leave your "Earth World" baggage at all games' login screen
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR