@deniter Now I understand better what you're saying. Do you think it's possible that they will tune things to a higher level than originally found to compensate for the higher level gear?
Yep, that's exactly what Blizzard is doing.
They gonna implement the things that most Vanilla players hate about retail and post WOTLK which is, TOKEN gear. Gear that becomes obsolete after 2 levels, replaced with more gear that will become obsolete after other 2 levels. If that's the case I am out already.
I want gear I can remember the name of, and that can last for weeks/months, I don't want gear to become trivial. The catch up gear is a game breaker for me, and I suspect for many who asked for Vanilla in the first place.
@deniter How do you figure they can erase people's memories of the tactics and mechanics of the raids they experienced already and that there are 100s of guides for these days? That's what the post is saying. You can't unlearn what you already know.
So do tell how they "could have recreated the original vanilla experience".
Well, they could change around how the spells bosses used then, so those that will use the Glider/Honor Buddy type software won't even trivialize classic content.
But considering Blizzard wants "whales" so bad that classic would have "catch up mechanisms" too, EXPECT the worst to return (and this time selling runs for cash, forget gold).
I doubt there would be many 30 to 40 year-olds who can grind vanilla style in classic anyway. Any grind mechanic there it WILL have bots. It's like piracy, better the game more will try to "break in" to play it issues.
Yet we get asshats like you continue to argue the tinted goggles bullshit. How about shutting the fuck up instead? If Blizzard does a pure vanilla experience and doesn't fuck with things, they will have several hundred thousand people that will consistently play for decades to come becuse not everyone gives two shits about how old the 3d engine is or how dead people think the games is. They just want it back. Figure it out.
WHAT?
Gamers today don't have the time nor do they even want to grind even 3 months in games for a reward. So a very over the top defense of that play style flies in the face of REALITY.
Just look at the metrics of current WoW: m-a-n-y play for one month and then leave. They might return for patches, or worse, during the "catch up mechanisms" later in the game.
HOW do you think that will match up in vanilla considering it's the exact same player base?
Oh, it won't be pretty. It may have a nice opening splash, but once most hit level 60 and all that's left is THE GRIND (more so considering the run sellers for cash will make sure e-v-e-r-y-o-n-e raids [when less than 10% got even to do Molten Core in vanilla]) , yeah, give it 6 months and you'll see the exact same drop of players on classic servers.
Classic already isn't Vanilla anyway. So keep smoking that pipe, reality is going to hit hard for the "run and gun" players needing instant "I'm elite" avenues for "success".
@deniter Now I understand better what you're saying. Do you think it's possible that they will tune things to a higher level than originally found to compensate for the higher level gear?
If you don't think they will do so, or will do so badly, I can understand your concern. It would make the leveling process laughably easy and irrelevant and make dungeons/raids far too simple.
I really hope they will do some compensation with all mobs, not just raid bosses but i'm not holding my breath. It's easier for them to pick a patch and implement it to classic as it was in the original game. Items also had more interesting stats but all this made the game very easy, which worked as intended to prepare people for the expansion. However, this time around there won't be an expansion, just Classic with lvl 60 as a level cap.
And as i've understood, we're not getting patches 1.5 or 1.9 and all the stuff with different stats. Classic will have a fixed 1.12 patch as a backbone of the game with corresponding itemization. Sadly, without re-tuning the game will be only a drive-through for the most of the people.
I am not sure what to do with the new Anarchy Online server and the CoX servers I don't think I can spare any time for vanilla. I would say poor timing for these servers from the look of things. It's odd that all these developments are going to offer us these old school games and we are spoilt for choice. What a time to be a gamer. I am truly happy.
@deniter How do you figure they can erase people's memories of the tactics and mechanics of the raids they experienced already and that there are 100s of guides for these days? That's what the post is saying. You can't unlearn what you already know.
So do tell how they "could have recreated the original vanilla experience".
By creating entirely new content, durhay. All they have to do is spend millions of dollars and several years on development, on what would still then not be a classic server ...... wait.
By the way, although Blizzard will never announce any such intention, the poll made by Mark Kern about Classic and how the community viewed its outlook had yielded some very interesting finds about a significant majority wishing to experience future content (i.e. from other expansions) adapted to the Classic ruleset. If Blizzard sees any such potential, I'm sure they'll go after it.
I sware we had Talent Points and a list of skills in vanilla or I just dreamed it or it was really early alpha / beta build and it got cut out. I definately remember 60 man raids. Maybe a different game I don't know. Anyways, I must be one of those weird people that actually don't mind the MC / BW Lair runs that don't drop loot so I can do it again next time. Or just good memories of the old days that would actually suck reliving it. Who knows.
Maybe I'm in the minority for thinking this, but it shouldn't be the developers' job to build community but for the community to build itself up....Making things 'easier for people to catch up' deteriorates that. Not everyone is supposed to be at the same place at the same time, that's the problem with current wow. Its the community's responsible to help each other progress. This also works to make it seem like the game is longer than it really is because the people at the 'top' is really small in reality given that there is usually a lot of backtracking involved. Just leave things as they were. They worked for a reason. If the current development team really understood their community, they wouldn't be having as many problems with the live game.
What you mentioned is kind of hard to do when they made every new expansion void all the "work" you did in a previous expansion. They decided to treat expansions as seasons and that decision was made long ago when the original big boi WoW devs were there so Ion can't really be blamed for that. The more you think about it he kind of inherited the phuckfest that is >>>every new expansion is practically a new WoW and is powerless to do anything about it. Who wouldn't get tired of that game model where what you worked for over years is reduced to nothing? WoW players leave then maybe come back for the first 3 months of an expansion then leave again which is the same amount of time for "seasons" in other games. It was a good test but overall when it comes to persistence like other MMO's have that makes you want to stick around WoW's format does not work IMO.
How do expansions relate to wow classic? People wanting Classic....want vanilla, as in no tbc, where yes your stuff in vanilla was pretty much void. But before then? No. People who wanted these servers wanted them as is. Why? Because there's too many things EVERYONE would want to change, resulting in the game in its current state, which wasn't the point of playing vanilla. There were things people liked and didn't. There was stuff people could do and just couldn't. The game made people realize that they had to exist with others and look out for the interests of others to further their own. If you know your main tank needs stuff before you and you just so happen to be the same class, you'll pass. Why? Because it also helps you get stuff faster if your main tank isn't dying all the time and waiting to get better gear. The only place you'll see this way of thinking in the current game now is mythic raiding because it requires a team focus, not an individual focus. People who stop at heroic are always thinking how they can do things to improve themselves. Which is also why I dont like their being so many modes for content. Would it be slower overall if the community had to rely on themselves to push content? No kidding. But guess what, content lasts longer as a result as well as people indirectly caring for others.
Classic doesn't need to be 'modernized.' It would be nice if people could go back to just accepting there are things that just aren't for them and either deal with or move on instead of trying to assimilating every facet of everything to make it acceptable for 'everyone.' When you do that, you end up again with the current state of the game. People do the 'endgame' once and quit because people forget that all you do in 'endgame' is the same stuff over and over, so if you dilute that process, it just loses meaning.
Maybe I'm in the minority for thinking this, but it shouldn't be the developers' job to build community but for the community to build itself up....Making things 'easier for people to catch up' deteriorates that. Not everyone is supposed to be at the same place at the same time, that's the problem with current wow. Its the community's responsible to help each other progress. This also works to make it seem like the game is longer than it really is because the people at the 'top' is really small in reality given that there is usually a lot of backtracking involved. Just leave things as they were. They worked for a reason. If the current development team really understood their community, they wouldn't be having as many problems with the live game.
What you mentioned is kind of hard to do when they made every new expansion void all the "work" you did in a previous expansion. They decided to treat expansions as seasons and that decision was made long ago when the original big boi WoW devs were there so Ion can't really be blamed for that. The more you think about it he kind of inherited the phuckfest that is >>>every new expansion is practically a new WoW and is powerless to do anything about it. Who wouldn't get tired of that game model where what you worked for over years is reduced to nothing? WoW players leave then maybe come back for the first 3 months of an expansion then leave again which is the same amount of time for "seasons" in other games. It was a good test but overall when it comes to persistence like other MMO's have that makes you want to stick around WoW's format does not work IMO.
wasn't the idea of vanilla server to never had to deal with this expansion again?
@deniter How do you figure they can erase people's memories of the tactics and mechanics of the raids they experienced already and that there are 100s of guides for these days? That's what the post is saying. You can't unlearn what you already know.
So do tell how they "could have recreated the original vanilla experience".
By creating entirely new content, durhay. All they have to do is spend millions of dollars and several years on development, on what would still then not be a classic server ...... wait.
By the way, although Blizzard will never announce any such intention, the poll made by Mark Kern about Classic and how the community viewed its outlook had yielded some very interesting finds about a significant majority wishing to experience future content (i.e. from other expansions) adapted to the Classic ruleset. If Blizzard sees any such potential, I'm sure they'll go after it.
Not seeing how that would work honestly. They gutted and tried to rework classes for example every expansion. They would have to add to the talent trees and balance around that along with adjust raiding for 40 man teams if it was within the classic ruleset. Thats a big investment.
Pretty much and the classic 'dev team' isn't really a real dev team compared to live so that's pretty much out of the cards in itself. The only option would be to move people from live to classic and lets be honest, especially given the current state of live, does anyone REALLY want that? Granted most of the failures over the years have been because of the top, so maybe they would let the current head of classic just have the people; all of it is just unrealistic for too many reasons, the main one being no one has experienced all of classic yet, so no one can say if they want more of it or not.
You don't understand the classic community, this is really important to know. If they didn't touch up on this topic there would be forum posts flooding the forums, and basically gets asked once a day anyways.
New user here (Sorry about my english, I am still learning) I have been reading the news since a couple of months and honestly love this webpage.
Now, related to WoW Classic, I honestly think that they should create a new mmorpg using the same system of WoW Vanilla but with new graphics and in an entire new world (Diablo mmorpg maybe?). So we would not have this problem saying "We know the mechanics of the bosses of Vanilla and TBC". If the system works and the problem is how we were interacting with the community...
Why not to create something with the old system but also with the facelift of this days? Something fresh with the taste of the old school (And the community interaction) mmorpgs is what we need.
Yet we get asshats like you continue to argue the tinted goggles bullshit. How about shutting the fuck up instead? If Blizzard does a pure vanilla experience and doesn't fuck with things, they will have several hundred thousand people that will consistently play for decades to come becuse not everyone gives two shits about how old the 3d engine is or how dead people think the games is. They just want it back. Figure it out.
WHAT?
Gamers today don't have the time nor do they even want to grind even 3 months in games for a reward. So a very over the top defense of that play style flies in the face of REALITY.
Just look at the metrics of current WoW: m-a-n-y play for one month and then leave. They might return for patches, or worse, during the "catch up mechanisms" later in the game.
HOW do you think that will match up in vanilla considering it's the exact same player base?
Oh, it won't be pretty. It may have a nice opening splash, but once most hit level 60 and all that's left is THE GRIND (more so considering the run sellers for cash will make sure e-v-e-r-y-o-n-e raids [when less than 10% got even to do Molten Core in vanilla]) , yeah, give it 6 months and you'll see the exact same drop of players on classic servers.
Classic already isn't Vanilla anyway. So keep smoking that pipe, reality is going to hit hard for the "run and gun" players needing instant "I'm elite" avenues for "success".
The whole point of us fighting for vanilla to return is because of those things ... if they don't give that to us ... we fought for nothing and the entire thing won't get us to come back. You can keep smoking that pipe dream. Do you realize that everquest 1 is still being played?
We fought to get vanilla back ... if they don't give it to us, we will just create a private server again with the REAL vanilla on it. Period. Or we just go to pantheon ... the only REAL mmorpg. Not these instant gratification bullshit games were no one really values anything. Ever since mobile games have come out, this has become the norm because regular people play these shitty ass games. Now it gets forced on hardcore gamers... what a joke. The hardcore gamers were the ones that made these companies great and known and now they are abandoning these fans.
They don't seem to understand that these normal people don't give a rats ass about their product. Because the moment that instant gratification is filled, they just walk away. While hardcore gamers stick to a game and fight for them because we DO care.
all they had to do was launch the original experience with visual enhancements they've made over the years... that's it and they cant even do that right tells you everything you need to know about blizzard or what little is left of it.
I give this server a year, two at most before it ends up abandoned. To many people are looking thru rose tinted glasses at this. There will be no xpacs, no new raids, nothing new. Only the things that many like myself ran into the ground because we loved the game back then. I myself miss the older style content where you have to had diverse groups and CC to even handle trash mobs in instances, where there was no real group them up and just AoE them down. How many people though are going to have hours on end like the used to do to do that one BRD run that takes 2+ hours to complete.
I hope those that are really looking forward to this get what they wanted an it does last for them, just can't see it myself.
It will definitely last more than an year because most people will take more than 1-2 months just to hit 60, especially on PvP servers also gearing was a lot slower than now, so definitely more than a year. As for how long after that it will last... even if it lasts only 2 years that's what? 23 months more than the last expansion did
If they are smart later they will add competitions/races to spice things up and at some point if the vanilla servers are actually successful enough I don't see any reason not to add new "original" content aka alternative expansion to TBC. Considering how bad they've been doing with the expansions the last few years I think this is worth trying.
I give this server a year, two at most before it ends up abandoned. To many people are looking thru rose tinted glasses at this. There will be no xpacs, no new raids, nothing new. Only the things that many like myself ran into the ground because we loved the game back then. I myself miss the older style content where you have to had diverse groups and CC to even handle trash mobs in instances, where there was no real group them up and just AoE them down. How many people though are going to have hours on end like the used to do to do that one BRD run that takes 2+ hours to complete.
I hope those that are really looking forward to this get what they wanted an it does last for them, just can't see it myself.
It will definitely last more than an year because most people will take more than 1-2 months just to hit 60, especially on PvP servers also gearing was a lot slower than now, so definitely more than a year. As for how long after that it will last... even if it lasts only 2 years that's what? 23 months more than the last expansion did
If they are smart later they will add competitions/races to spice things up and at some point if the vanilla servers are actually successful enough I don't see any reason not to add new "original" content aka alternative expansion to TBC. Considering how bad they've been doing with the expansions the last few years I think this is worth trying.
"However, players will find that when new
things are added to the loot tables, there will be "a deliberate effort
to provide catch-up gear and/or to provide new goals for players who had
exhausted an existing reward structure"."
Highly doubtful on things being as slow as they were in vanilla. This is Activision-Blizzard after all....They were just Blizzard back in vanilla.
The #nochanges brigade will be spitting blood and giving birth to 5 headed goats in reaction outrage.
At this point ActiBlizz might as well just put the new character models in and rebrand Classic as "WoW 2.0".
It'll probably be GG if they announce that they are keeping the mount journal thing from live. 6 months after launch they'll probably just add heirlooms because "...there will be "a deliberate effort
to provide catch-up gear and/or to provide new goals for players who had
exhausted an existing reward structure"...." etc." I mean the whole "people just dont have as much time as they used to" excuse is wearing thin. The whole point was because it wasn't meant for everyone. Just go play on live if you want things catered to you, freaking simple.
The #nochanges brigade will be spitting blood and giving birth to 5 headed goats in reaction outrage.
At this point ActiBlizz might as well just put the new character models in and rebrand Classic as "WoW 2.0".
It'll probably be GG if they announce that they are keeping the mount journal thing from live. 6 months after launch they'll probably just add heirlooms because "...there will be "a deliberate effort
to provide catch-up gear and/or to provide new goals for players who had
exhausted an existing reward structure"...." etc." I mean the whole "people just dont have as much time as they used to" excuse is wearing thin. The whole point was because it wasn't meant for everyone. Just go play on live if you want things catered to you, freaking simple.
Oh agreed, it will be interesting to see what choice the players make, Classic or Live BFA. It may even lead to an existential crisis of WoW if they can't decide properly because of a blurring instead of a complete separation between the two games.
The #nochanges brigade will be spitting blood and giving birth to 5 headed goats in reaction outrage.
At this point ActiBlizz might as well just put the new character models in and rebrand Classic as "WoW 2.0".
It'll probably be GG if they announce that they are keeping the mount journal thing from live. 6 months after launch they'll probably just add heirlooms because "...there will be "a deliberate effort
to provide catch-up gear and/or to provide new goals for players who had
exhausted an existing reward structure"...." etc." I mean the whole "people just dont have as much time as they used to" excuse is wearing thin. The whole point was because it wasn't meant for everyone. Just go play on live if you want things catered to you, freaking simple.
Oh agreed, it will be interesting to see what choice the players make, Classic or Live BFA. It may even lead to an existential crisis of WoW if they can't decide properly because of a blurring instead of a complete separation between the two games.
One Subscription to play them both. I think a lot of players will try Vanilla, maybe even fully level up a character and will be hit by endgame. You as player will have to be pro-active and entertain yourself. You'll need to find 39 others to do raids. You'll need to start farming/grinding materials (for hours) to make consumables. You'll need to take turns on receiving loot. You'll need to run to dungeon/raid instances. You'll be spending a lot time on drinking/eating between fights. You'll be alt-tabbed a lot when travelling by flightpath or waiting for boats.
Then people will start playing BFA and love the QOL improvements. Restarting their lone-wolf mindset and join that raidfinder.
Damn Blizzard is dumb AF! What are they working so hard for?
They already have an extremely successful classic server in their grasp. All they need to do is recreate the Nostalrius server and run it the exact same way. That will be a guaranteed success, but instead it seems like they think they know better and plan to doit their way. I have a feeling that their classic isn't something many people will enjoy.
Comments
They gonna implement the things that most Vanilla players hate about retail and post WOTLK which is, TOKEN gear.
Gear that becomes obsolete after 2 levels, replaced with more gear that will become obsolete after other 2 levels.
If that's the case I am out already.
I want gear I can remember the name of, and that can last for weeks/months, I don't want gear to become trivial.
The catch up gear is a game breaker for me, and I suspect for many who asked for Vanilla in the first place.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
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.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
And as i've understood, we're not getting patches 1.5 or 1.9 and all the stuff with different stats. Classic will have a fixed 1.12 patch as a backbone of the game with corresponding itemization. Sadly, without re-tuning the game will be only a drive-through for the most of the people.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
You don't understand the classic community, this is really important to know. If they didn't touch up on this topic there would be forum posts flooding the forums, and basically gets asked once a day anyways.
Now, related to WoW Classic, I honestly think that they should create a new mmorpg using the same system of WoW Vanilla but with new graphics and in an entire new world (Diablo mmorpg maybe?). So we would not have this problem saying "We know the mechanics of the bosses of Vanilla and TBC". If the system works and the problem is how we were interacting with the community... Why not to create something with the old system but also with the facelift of this days? Something fresh with the taste of the old school (And the community interaction) mmorpgs is what we need.
The whole point of us fighting for vanilla to return is because of those things ... if they don't give that to us ... we fought for nothing and the entire thing won't get us to come back. You can keep smoking that pipe dream. Do you realize that everquest 1 is still being played?
We fought to get vanilla back ... if they don't give it to us, we will just create a private server again with the REAL vanilla on it. Period. Or we just go to pantheon ... the only REAL mmorpg. Not these instant gratification bullshit games were no one really values anything. Ever since mobile games have come out, this has become the norm because regular people play these shitty ass games. Now it gets forced on hardcore gamers... what a joke. The hardcore gamers were the ones that made these companies great and known and now they are abandoning these fans. They don't seem to understand that these normal people don't give a rats ass about their product. Because the moment that instant gratification is filled, they just walk away. While hardcore gamers stick to a game and fight for them because we DO care.
It will definitely last more than an year because most people will take more than 1-2 months just to hit 60, especially on PvP servers also gearing was a lot slower than now, so definitely more than a year. As for how long after that it will last... even if it lasts only 2 years that's what? 23 months more than the last expansion did
If they are smart later they will add competitions/races to spice things up and at some point if the vanilla servers are actually successful enough I don't see any reason not to add new "original" content aka alternative expansion to TBC. Considering how bad they've been doing with the expansions the last few years I think this is worth trying.
At this point ActiBlizz might as well just put the new character models in and rebrand Classic as "WoW 2.0".
You as player will have to be pro-active and entertain yourself.
You'll need to find 39 others to do raids.
You'll need to start farming/grinding materials (for hours) to make consumables.
You'll need to take turns on receiving loot.
You'll need to run to dungeon/raid instances.
You'll be spending a lot time on drinking/eating between fights.
You'll be alt-tabbed a lot when travelling by flightpath or waiting for boats.
Then people will start playing BFA and love the QOL improvements. Restarting their lone-wolf mindset and join that raidfinder.