I think it's pretty obvious that Classic will at least pay for itself. Play any of the free servers for Vanilla, look at OSRS. Even fifteen years after T2A released, there were tens of thousands of players across the vast number of UO free shards. The argument that everyone is there simply because there's no barrier to entry is patently untrue, and I think it's a very safe bet to assume that Classic WoW will hold up just fine.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
Will they implement group finder in classic? In my eyes that is what signaled the end of the game for me. In Burning Crusade you had many zones with captureable locations that were near the dungeons. People would flock around them and the pvp was excellent...
Classic WoW will be a huge success. I'm honestly unsure why people think otherwise.
You are basing your opinion on some pretty hefty assumptions. But I don't think you are considering the reality that Blizzard today is not the Blizzard of 20 years ago. I fear that Classic WoW is going to be exploited as a "Cash Grab"
It will do as well as the Rift Progression server did...
The problem here is, if you played classic, you already know the game like the back of your hand. It loses a lot of it's lustre because there is no wonder of the unknown. Classic was about finding your way around, working your way around the bugs, figuring out different combinations of skills, and maximizing macros.
By the end of classic, players had figured out everything there was to know about the game to the nth detail. These players are going to be playing it again knowing all that information this time around. Hell, anyone has access to that information with the way back machine... every macro, every build, every little detail there is to know.
Regarding the the Rift comment... Ignoring the numerous examples of MMOs where classic/progression servers are successful, cherry-picking one that (presumably) isn't doing well, and asserting it as the model of how WoW's will perform is really dishonest. It's textbook confirmation bias.
The rest of the quoted part, and rest of your post by extension is, in a word, projection.
As I and others have stated, there is and has been a notable demand for classic servers. The success of Nostalrius in particular proves this. That Blizzard decided to move forward with it, having been dismissive of it initially ("you think you do...") shows that they now see the potential in it as well.
Questioning if people will accept all the "issues" you list on a classic server is absurd. There's already proof that they would, because many of them already have been. You have to be willfully ignorant, or completely out of the loop to not realize this.
This is why I say that it comes down not to whether or not a classic WoW server could succeed. It already has. The question to me is can Blizzard manage to not screw it up with their own.
The 100% fact, truth, reality of it is, WoW from 2004 can never be recreated. No more than your birth can be recreated. It happens only once.
I beg to differ, WoW from 2004 can be recreated; it's one's memories/game experience that can't be recreated (what we casually in these fora call "nostalgia"). But the relaunch of Classic is not about nostalgia; it's a darn good game, that keeps you hooked for hours on end and the Nostalrius et. al experience showed that it has a playerbase significant enough for Blizzard to rethink its initial stance on the issue.
It will do as well as the Rift Progression server did...
The problem here is, if you played classic, you already know the game like the back of your hand. It loses a lot of it's lustre because there is no wonder of the unknown. Classic was about finding your way around, working your way around the bugs, figuring out different combinations of skills, and maximizing macros.
By the end of classic, players had figured out everything there was to know about the game to the nth detail. These players are going to be playing it again knowing all that information this time around. Hell, anyone has access to that information with the way back machine... every macro, every build, every little detail there is to know.
Regarding the the Rift comment... Ignoring the numerous examples of MMOs where classic/progression servers are successful, cherry-picking one that (presumably) isn't doing well, and asserting it as the model of how WoW's will perform is really dishonest. It's textbook confirmation bias.
The rest of the quoted part, and rest of your post by extension is, in a word, projection.
As I and others have stated, there is and has been a notable demand for classic servers. The success of Nostalrius in particular proves this. That Blizzard decided to move forward with it, having been dismissive of it initially ("you think you do...") shows that they now see the potential in it as well.
Questioning if people will accept all the "issues" you list on a classic server is absurd. There's already proof that they would, because many of them already have been. You have to be willfully ignorant, or completely out of the loop to not realize this.
This is why I say that it comes down not to whether or not a classic WoW server could succeed. It already has. The question to me is can Blizzard manage to not screw it up with their own.
The 100% fact, truth, reality of it is, WoW from 2004 can never be recreated. No more than your birth can be recreated. It happens only once.
I beg to differ, WoW from 2004 can be recreated; it's one's memories/game experience that can't be recreated (what we casually in these fora call "nostalgia"). But the relaunch of Classic is not about nostalgia; it's a darn good game, that keeps you hooked for hours on end and the Nostalrius et. al experience showed that it has a playerbase significant enough for Blizzard to rethink its initial stance on the issue.
Private servers have been around as long as WoW itself... in fact, they are still around. It's funny how the game is so much fun that those ousted from one server never regrouped on any of the other servers.
The game was the same...
What changed were the people.
Again... even Nost can't reinvent itself. Classic WoW will be no different.
The game that you claim is so good already exists and has existed for years... players refuse to play it because there is no sub? It's not run by Blizzard? Perhaps because deep down they already know that they can never go back.
I reiterate... Classic won't bring back those that left that game so long ago because the reason they left hasn't changed. Sure, some people go to their 50th high school renunion, the majority don't. And that's only a one night commitment.
I am sure classic will bring lots of people back into the game. The plus side is you will pay for the current wow and when bored you will get to play the original classic wow.
You also going to see people coming from private servers because NO the private servers are not stable at all. They have to reboot them at least once or twice a day and if everything goes well then every two days. That is something Blizzard does not need to do. So you don't get d/c in middle of a fight or raid etc. Not to say it won't occur at lunch because everyone know that a new server always have issues. But again it will be free to play if you have a monthly sub to the current game.
I really wish casual and mainstream gamers would stop projecting their views and ideas on what gamers like. You know what you and your kind like. And you have no idea what people like outside of casual and mainstream gaming.
WoW original had actual meaty rpg systems geared towards adults - it had talents, skills, trying, and thinking. No dual builds. Most people could not afford to respect their talents all the time for different activities. Most people didn't have the time build up huge sums of money, or play all day.
And the best thing is WoW classic will not appeal to the people who did since they are mostly unemployed mainstream players and are too busy playing Fortnight and other mainstream shit to play a game because it is actually a good game rather than the current it thing. No achievements will drive off another large group of idiots and kids. Etc.
The people I dislike and do not want to play with will either not try this or move on quickly. I truly hope this does not become some hip thing for all the mainstream and casual people, as that will be the only reason it deviates from being classic to having every loud mouth idiot and their brother screaming for it to become more and more modern wow.
We should make a peace - all you guys stick to your BRs, survival games, and modern wow - and we'll stick to classic wow and other real mmorpgs. You stop playing our games and telling us what we like and want, and we'll continue to silently be confused by all of you and we watch you in horror watch videos of other people playing video games and play games that utter crap and barely deserve the title of game, and definitely don't warrant the label of rpg.
Get of your high horse, you’re not making peace with anyone, you’re simply insulting the other group. Your bias and assumptions are a travesty and presenting your poorly disguised opinions as facts is laughable at best.
The people you talk about are 95% of the players out there, THEY are the gamers, not you. You are the minority, a loud and rude one to boot. Classic will fail to be the saviour of anything because the small demopgraphic they are targetting finds themselves way too important to see its just a niche project.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
I still remember the day achievements went live. It didn’t feel right. Soon after I hated and I knew why.
Before achievements anything was possible and more so if it was cool it was worthy. After achievements imagination vanished. If it wasn’t on blizzards list, it wasn’t worthy.
The Achievements system was one of the biggest blows to the rpg in mmorpg.
I really wish casual and mainstream gamers would stop projecting their views and ideas on what gamers like. You know what you and your kind like. And you have no idea what people like outside of casual and mainstream gaming.
WoW original had actual meaty rpg systems geared towards adults - it had talents, skills, trying, and thinking. No dual builds. Most people could not afford to respect their talents all the time for different activities. Most people didn't have the time build up huge sums of money, or play all day.
And the best thing is WoW classic will not appeal to the people who did since they are mostly unemployed mainstream players and are too busy playing Fortnight and other mainstream shit to play a game because it is actually a good game rather than the current it thing. No achievements will drive off another large group of idiots and kids. Etc.
The people I dislike and do not want to play with will either not try this or move on quickly. I truly hope this does not become some hip thing for all the mainstream and casual people, as that will be the only reason it deviates from being classic to having every loud mouth idiot and their brother screaming for it to become more and more modern wow.
We should make a peace - all you guys stick to your BRs, survival games, and modern wow - and we'll stick to classic wow and other real mmorpgs. You stop playing our games and telling us what we like and want, and we'll continue to silently be confused by all of you and we watch you in horror watch videos of other people playing video games and play games that utter crap and barely deserve the title of game, and definitely don't warrant the label of rpg.
Get of your high horse, you’re not making peace with anyone, you’re simply insulting the other group. Your bias and assumptions are a travesty and presenting your poorly disguised opinions as facts is laughable at best.
The people you talk about are 95% of the players out there, THEY are the gamers, not you. You are the minority, a loud and rude one to boot. Classic will fail to be the saviour of anything because the small demopgraphic they are targetting finds themselves way too important to see its just a niche project.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
I still remember the day achievements went live. It didn’t feel right. Soon after I hated and I knew why.
Before achievements anything was possible and more so if it was cool it was worthy. After achievements imagination vanished. If it wasn’t on blizzards list, it wasn’t worthy.
The Achievements system was one of the biggest blows to the rpg in mmorpg.
Agreed. In general, streamlining is killing imagination; be it itemization, quests, class role specialization... everything is assigned a checkbox that you either tick or untick.
Its not about finding other peoples taste shit, it is about the desperate need to actually tell other people that and then distancing yourself from that because " your" fun is being ruined.
You talk about poor taste, the likes of you, loud mouth idiots, the people I dislike etc. etc. etc. You couldn't be more condecending if you tried, THAT makes you an elitist. Enjoy Classic, I know I will, but when you want people to leave your fun alone, don't start pissing all over theirs like you have been doing up till now.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
I see. So tons of people claiming they know what I like and don't like and that I am not smart enough to realize it until I play a game they don't like isn't condescending at all. I should not be annoyed by that and respond accordingly at all. You having a mental breakdown and hissy fit over me pointing this out isn't condescending at all either. Condescending to you seems to mean the things people say that you don't like, and if called on it or replied to about your hissy fit in a rational and reasonable way with great examples you just move the goal post and change what you were having a hulk-inspired hissy fit about.
That's fine. Since I belong (according to you) in the super marginalized minority camp of only 5% of gamers, I guess I should expected to be treated like a subhuman.
Have fun with your anger, emotional, and logic/reasoning issues. But seriously, consider having a new professional look at and possibly adjust your meds.
Once those rose colored glasses are slapped off, crushed by reality and the population dwindles. I'll tell ya I told ya so.
so where are you thinking those people end up? retail? there are a lot of people that don't like retail and would much rather play on a "classic" server. its either that or don't play wow at all for a lot of people.
my reality is i can't stand wow retail, so the buck stops here if i ever want to play wow again., unless i go to a private server. i'm guessing i'm not alone, not by a long shot.
I think most of them will go back to doing what they were doing before. Playing other games. As we ancient Wow vets have been doing for years. Or back to the true vanilla rogue servers they can play on for free.
What other mmorpg is like wow vanilla? What I am doing now is waiting for wow classic and an mmorpg that interests me (so far it is only the two super hero ones being developed). So I will go back to waiting for wow classic instead of playing it? Thats just crazy.
And from talking to people on the blizzard classic discussion board most are like me - we don't understand or trust private servers. I only recently tried one and I just can't do it. It feels like even more of a waste of time than beta testing a game that most likely will never go live. Granted, official games I do like and am interested in can close down, like Wildstar, but generally I have zero anxiety playing an official game - my anxiety level was super high playing just a couple minutes on a private server. Private servers just aren't for me and a lot of other people.
I do not understand why pvp is such a big deal in Classic Wow. When Wow came out, pvp was lame, really lame for those there were used to pvp games. Respawn at the nearest graveyard made pvp a complete joke. It did not matter if you killed anyone, they would be back at it in a minute or so and that was when mounts were not available until 40.
I enjoyed Wow, but there are much better games out there today and Wow has not aged very well. I wish anyone playing on the classic servers to have fun. I just cannot bring myself to go back to those days.
That saying that you can never go back comes to mind. You cannot go back and recapture that feeling you had when you first played classic. Nor can you go back and ignore the QoL issues that were present or some of the more tedious gameplay mechanics that faked depth. There are some awesome things to go back and see for sure and I think for 6-12 months it will be very successful at least until the content dries up.
People already complain that leveling an alt takes to long. They have no idea what it was like. I think it burns bright for a bit then falls to a smaller community that will keep a few realms going but that will be it.
When the game was at it's peak it had it's original character development. It had a much slower leveling curve. It had only just introduced an LFG option. The game had PvP servers.
Today, WoW is minus several million subscribers, near 10! The leveling is obscenely fast, to the point that you hit max level in about a week of casual play, and only see a few zones of the main game, as well as skip whole expansions worth of content. Today you don't need to socialize, and boy do a lot of people take advantage that, not even if you want to raid. At it's peak something like 2% of the playerbase experienced raid content, today you can press a button and do it and the game has some 10 million fewer players.
If the changes they made to WoW were so great there wouldn't have been a big push for classic, and they wouldn't have shed something like 80% of their playerbase.
The only people fixated on feelings are people that make posts like the one you made. The people who wanted classic wanted it for the gameplay mechanics, slower pace, and need to actually socialize in a game you play with thousands of other people.
In the long term? I doubt it will be a big thing, but I've learned never to say never.
Now, the clever twist that Bliz might pull off is to take Classic as a foundation and then develop it in a completely different direction.
One could perhaps call it "Hardcore WoW" or "Old-school WoW" - something like what we might have hoped for once, long ago.
I think the core elements of Classic WoW are solid enough to expand upon, and I always loved the world building and the engine.
They could go crazy and turn it into a full-loot world PvP thing - or some kind of sandbox MMO set in the same world.
The sky would be the limit, but it obviously won't happen - as Blizzard was never really a creative company, and these days they're all but dead in terms of innovation or boldness.
The other thing I don't get about these servers though is that there's no avoiding the inevitable progression/end of the ride. Eventually the game you're playing will become the retail version.....so why bother? And even if it never moved beyond X or Y point.....you're not going to get new content then......so why bother?
This is the falsest of false dichotomies.
The way they are actually going to handle it (or so they've hinted) is this: When it's time to progress the timeline, they may leave out certain so-called "quality of life" changes, most importantly the ones that contributed to the overly casual nature of modern WoW that Classic players despise.
Just imagining the Legion expansion under a Classic ruleset seems amazing to me.
Just imagining the Legion expansion under a Classic ruleset seems amazing to me.
At first I though you are a bot, necro-ing this thread.
BUT, that line over there, for some reasons, brings me excitement. Legion for me, is one of the best x-pac. So yes! I'm all for it.
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy? Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
Comments
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
- had to be said
The game was the same...
What changed were the people.
Again... even Nost can't reinvent itself. Classic WoW will be no different.
The game that you claim is so good already exists and has existed for years... players refuse to play it because there is no sub? It's not run by Blizzard? Perhaps because deep down they already know that they can never go back.
I reiterate... Classic won't bring back those that left that game so long ago because the reason they left hasn't changed. Sure, some people go to their 50th high school renunion, the majority don't. And that's only a one night commitment.
been there, done that, moved on.
but it's good you kids can finally witness how it all started. maybe try playing AO next?
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
You also going to see people coming from private servers because NO the private servers are not stable at all. They have to reboot them at least once or twice a day and if everything goes well then every two days. That is something Blizzard does not need to do. So you don't get d/c in middle of a fight or raid etc. Not to say it won't occur at lunch because everyone know that a new server always have issues. But again it will be free to play if you have a monthly sub to the current game.
Before achievements anything was possible and more so if it was cool it was worthy. After achievements imagination vanished. If it wasn’t on blizzards list, it wasn’t worthy.
The Achievements system was one of the biggest blows to the rpg in mmorpg.
That's fine. Since I belong (according to you) in the super marginalized minority camp of only 5% of gamers, I guess I should expected to be treated like a subhuman.
Have fun with your anger, emotional, and logic/reasoning issues. But seriously, consider having a new professional look at and possibly adjust your meds.
/Enjoy,
Blamo
What other mmorpg is like wow vanilla? What I am doing now is waiting for wow classic and an mmorpg that interests me (so far it is only the two super hero ones being developed). So I will go back to waiting for wow classic instead of playing it? Thats just crazy.
And from talking to people on the blizzard classic discussion board most are like me - we don't understand or trust private servers. I only recently tried one and I just can't do it. It feels like even more of a waste of time than beta testing a game that most likely will never go live. Granted, official games I do like and am interested in can close down, like Wildstar, but generally I have zero anxiety playing an official game - my anxiety level was super high playing just a couple minutes on a private server. Private servers just aren't for me and a lot of other people.
I enjoyed Wow, but there are much better games out there today and Wow has not aged very well. I wish anyone playing on the classic servers to have fun. I just cannot bring myself to go back to those days.
When the game was at it's peak it had it's original character development. It had a much slower leveling curve. It had only just introduced an LFG option. The game had PvP servers.
Today, WoW is minus several million subscribers, near 10! The leveling is obscenely fast, to the point that you hit max level in about a week of casual play, and only see a few zones of the main game, as well as skip whole expansions worth of content. Today you don't need to socialize, and boy do a lot of people take advantage that, not even if you want to raid. At it's peak something like 2% of the playerbase experienced raid content, today you can press a button and do it and the game has some 10 million fewer players.
If the changes they made to WoW were so great there wouldn't have been a big push for classic, and they wouldn't have shed something like 80% of their playerbase.
The only people fixated on feelings are people that make posts like the one you made. The people who wanted classic wanted it for the gameplay mechanics, slower pace, and need to actually socialize in a game you play with thousands of other people.
In the long term? I doubt it will be a big thing, but I've learned never to say never.
Now, the clever twist that Bliz might pull off is to take Classic as a foundation and then develop it in a completely different direction.
One could perhaps call it "Hardcore WoW" or "Old-school WoW" - something like what we might have hoped for once, long ago.
I think the core elements of Classic WoW are solid enough to expand upon, and I always loved the world building and the engine.
They could go crazy and turn it into a full-loot world PvP thing - or some kind of sandbox MMO set in the same world.
The sky would be the limit, but it obviously won't happen - as Blizzard was never really a creative company, and these days they're all but dead in terms of innovation or boldness.
This is the falsest of false dichotomies.
The way they are actually going to handle it (or so they've hinted) is this: When it's time to progress the timeline, they may leave out certain so-called "quality of life" changes, most importantly the ones that contributed to the overly casual nature of modern WoW that Classic players despise.
Just imagining the Legion expansion under a Classic ruleset seems amazing to me.
BUT, that line over there, for some reasons, brings me excitement. Legion for me, is one of the best x-pac. So yes! I'm all for it.
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!