While I hate loot boxes and micro transactions in games, I don't think more government control is the answer. There is too much of that already. If they need to pass something, make every game that using loot boxes or has MTX have a M rating and require the odds be posted. I know it's a novel concept, but how about letting parents actually "parent". That isn't the governments job.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
While I hate loot boxes and micro transactions in games, I don't think more government control is the answer. There is too much of that already. If they need to pass something, make every game that using loot boxes or has MTX have a M rating and require the odds be posted. I know it's a novel concept, but how about letting parents actually "parent". That isn't the governments job.
What do you think the answer is when the industry refuses to self regulate, and instead aggressively pushes psychological manipulation techniques on everyone (not just children, they just happen to be the most vulnerable).
The industry had it's chance to rein their greed, but not only refused, but gone the complete opposite way. If anything, they were left unchecked for way too long.
All the places that dabble in gambling have strictly imposed rules. Why do you thing these were set in place and why would the digital space should be exempt from them?
Would you argue that making your game 18+ effectively eludes this bill? As it states that it'll be applied on games for minors only.
This is a good point, someone talked about focusing on minors credit cards, you only have to go on you tube to find kids playing games they are clearly under age for. They, their parents, the gaming company and You Tube clearly don't care.
And that's exactly what I would be doing if I was their age, it is a badge of honour with your mates to get round your parents and security measures to play what you want to. You need to understand that to know how tough it will be to impact. Legislation won't be enough, that's often the case, it is more like damage limitation than a solution.
If lootboxes and P2W are banned by law, millions of gamers will be absolutely furious, because it will mean the end of "F2P" gaming !
Each player will have to pay their OWN way, no more playing for "free" while someone else pays for your gaming...
This is the core point. Gamers want a Free Game, and it's not going to happen.
I hope the next move is to go back to the Turbine Model, where companies let you play like 20% of the game as a free trial, and you need to either pay a sub or buy access to the content to access the other 80% of the game.
They will cry.. but hey.. they will have their vaunted Sub back.. which they will cry about.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
What they really need to do is turn away from PC games and get the grotesque mobile gaming space under control. They make PC games' mechanics look like nothin'. Let's face it: Kids play mobile games more than PC so the legislation needs to take them on aggressively.
I agree mobile games are a dark pit of monitization but I'm always leery of Congress poking their noses into things they rarely understand. This falls into the category of "be careful what you wish for..." It would be better if we as a gaming community simply refused to succumb to the allure of these PTW nuggets and parents kept their kids from purchasing as well. At least approaching this from the context of limiting minors from purchasing seems to be the right path forward if we must involve Congress.
I hope it passes. Maybe then game companies will concentrate on making great games again that sell well instead of ones that are mediocre at best just to make money from micro transactions.
Say what you like about who should he responsible, it's much easier to effectively address the issue via manipulating the behavior of a relative few companies, as opposed to changing the habits of millions of consumers.
yeah because every single time a goverment put his little paw on something they make things so much better.
and this bill not even passed and i'm thinking on 5 ways to bypass such law, so please go own, ask the big brother to take care of things
When was the last time you had to sincerely guess whether your lunch meat was gonna poison you?
But yes: REGOOLAYSHUNZ IZ BAD.
every single day, since law don't prevent bad practices, and last place I had to eat and find thing on food I leave and never will go back, so anything else?
It's not about coming to your rescue or to the rescue of those not needing it. It's more about curbing bad practices that companies practice.
It's like drinking...you can't walk around drinking while driving or while sitting in a public place etc etc.
It's the same kind of thing otherwise we would have people doing parties in public parks making bonfires and hiring strippers and selling bootleg booze when your kids are trying to go play ball..now for some people this wouldn't be an issue but for some it is. It's like this, has nothing to do with the govment trying to be our mommies and saving us.
It comes down to what is acceptable in our society and what isn't. The wild wild west days are long gone unless you're a redneck living off grid deep in the mountains somewhere.
-------
What of the bad practices of government? Do we want government taking the place of family and community? This site and community is an example of how to problem solve. Want to know if a game nickels and dimes you? Come here. Want to know if a game is a money sponge? Come here
We do not need government with all of its baggage attempting to address problems which should be handled on a personal basis. This site is a much better means of addressing game design issues than any government legislation.
Will all problems go away with freedom? Nope. Do all problems go away with government intervention? Nope. What do you prefer? Freedom or authoritarianism?
-------
Parks can have rules of use whether private or public. Private is likely a better model.
Should it be acceptable that we all are treated as monolithic people with the same values? Why is it acceptable in our society for a slim majority to dictate to the minority?
Why use force against bad habits? Whose bad habits? Who decides what is a bad habit? Should all gaming be banned as a bad habit? It is far better to convince people, you know...talk about it, than to use force.
Banning loot boxes is not government being a mommy? A mommy does not demand better habits? A mommy does not teach values? The problem with mommy government is that it uses force and not much teaching.
Learning better values is an education thing, not a force thing.
Letting people make mistakes is important as it also allows people to do great and inventive things. Collectively we are all better off when we can make decisions for ourselves. The idea that the world will be so much better when we make enough law and make government force the determiner of all values is a bad idea.
Say what you like about who should he responsible, it's much easier to effectively address the issue via manipulating the behavior of a relative few companies, as opposed to changing the habits of millions of consumers.
yeah because every single time a goverment put his little paw on something they make things so much better.
and this bill not even passed and i'm thinking on 5 ways to bypass such law, so please go own, ask the big brother to take care of things
When was the last time you had to sincerely guess whether your lunch meat was gonna poison you?
But yes: REGOOLAYSHUNZ IZ BAD.
every single day, since law don't prevent bad practices, and last place I had to eat and find thing on food I leave and never will go back, so anything else?
Lol. Stop lying dude.
You don't live in genuine fear of the food products you buy on a daily basis because the processing and packaging conditions are monitored and regulated by the government.
Your pretending to do so only shows how pitiful the general "regulations are bad" statement is. Regulations are merely tools. How good or bad they are comes down to how they're implemented, not some nature you wish to ascribe to them.
The Entertainment Software Association has said that it is looking "forward to sharing with the senator the tools and information the industry already provides that keeps the control of in-game spending in parents' hands."
And once they make a donation to his reelection campaign all of this will just quietly go away.
Sadly, you are probably correct.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Bro... kickstand on the loot boxes, and microtransactions for now. We'll live.
Just FYI, this will have no effect on Loot Boxes, or mincrotarsnions in the game, in regards to adults. This is all about the children, and a means by which they will not be able to spend their parents money without their parents knowing about it.
Will it work better than parental lock/parental control features?
I wager it will be different, as those features don't stop your kid from buying something on a phone game, after you set them up a purchasing account.
I get the vibe this is a situation where, if the phone is flagged as a Minors Phone, no purchases can me made in any game, even after a payment system has been set up, without the parents approval for each transaction.
100% ignorant. WTF would anybody leave a kid with a purchasing account where they can make transactions without any guardian approval? Even the worst parents don't want some rugrat wiping their credit card clean.
Also iPhone and Androids have family management tools, hell so do game systems, so does Steam, so do routers.
I'm not one of those "do gudder at parenting" guys when it comes to corporate abuses, but in this instance they're kinda right. Right now, part of being a household leader means being an IT person for your family. If it's too much work, remove the tech. Invoking ignorance isn't a good excuse.
I just think chasing a bill like this RIGHT NOW on a federal level is like trying to fix pH levels of faucet water during a biblical flood.
If your kid keeps banging your credit card because they have a lootbox problem, I think the immediate and safer bet is to maybe manage your credit card and peripherals so it doesn't happen again. Waiting for a bill to pass in todays climate with minors well being in the balance isn't wise.
The mental retard population of the US can't even get to common sense fire arm restrictions. They'd rather walk around with civil liberty rifles in front of unarmed Americans or suck Wayne La'Pierres beef for a 20% discount. Frankly, who things happen to and where = chickens coming home to roost.
I'm sorry for the rant, but politicians priorities are annoying AF man.
In case you didn't know this, which you know, maybe you didn't if you don't play Mobile games.
But, mobile games are often set up so that once you buy something from them, it's set up so you have a one button purchase in the future, because they discovered that the more they allow you to think about the purchase the less impulse it is, and this decrease the sales. So this was not in their best interest to make it harder for you to spend money with them.
While this is all fine and good to do to adult, when it comes to children, who may not even be aware of how much they are spending or it's overall value, in the span of minutes your child can rack up a bill easily in the thousands, simply because you processed a 5 dollar booster pack purchase 10 minutes ago, and didn't jump through the hoops to remove the credit card info before making dinner, because.. well hell.. your child can't be that stupid, after all.. that's YOUR genes at work there.. right.
Well anyway.. I think it is a good idea to have mobile game accounts flagged as minor's accounts, so that these one-button sales are not enabled on those devices, as one thing I have learned working in construction for over 25 years.. there are a LOT of stupid people.. and most of them think they are far Smarter than they really are, and any time you wanna talk about regulations out the ass.. work in construction.
First, what I meant to type was "I'm 100% ignorant" as to dealing with kids having autonomy with anything. It wasn't a shot at you, I apologize if you took it as such.
I understand everything you're saying, but what I'm not getting is why everyone is behaving as if simply disallowing/blocking mobile games isn't a viable option or removing the types of hardware that allow anything beyond communication. It's like giving a kid a Leapfrog instead of an iPad Pro, why is that such contentious idea?
Regardless, I wouldn't be surprised if companies like Tencent don't already have a bag of money rammed up the behinds of the Senate majority through Super Pacs. This is a fight that gets waged when we're in a reasonable climate not when 1+1 = 5, notarized documents = fake, "i just said this" = "i didn't say that".
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
I don't have much experience with games I felt were p2w or I felt pressure to spend real money in the game's shop. The only game I did feel like was P2W and felt like I had to spend money to progress was Neverwinter Online. But I've played tons of games people told me where P2W, but almost all them had shops with absolutely nothing that interests me or I would ever spend a dime on.
With Neverwinter Online I just stopped playing. I really don't see the need for regulation. I do hope that if it is regulated the games that relied on loot boxes and microtransactions for development, which all the people who seem to like and crave, either stop being made or cost a ton more and really screw all the authoritarians looking to the government to save them from themselves.
And I agree with you. Shady business models, basic fraud, a lot of reason the Federal Gov is going to start sticking its nose into gaming, more and more. Failure to regulate yourself invites outside help, and the U.S. Government isn't exactly known as the people that make things better.
Not to mention, when they set up their Internet Police, taxes will have to be implemented to pay for that. I am sure some sort of universal user identification will be required because you know, little Johnny is so damn stupid he eats tide pods, we need to make sure he can't just move around freely on the Net.
Keep playing the asshole, the government will be the dick and we will see who gets fucked.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
What do you think the answer is when the industry refuses to self regulate, and instead aggressively pushes psychological manipulation techniques on everyone (not just children, they just happen to be the most vulnerable).
That happens all the time in advertising. Look at preorder sales. Even though there is no need for them since most distribution is now done digitally, people can’t wait, and will pay extra, to be scammed first.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
And I agree with you. Shady business models, basic fraud, a lot of reason the Federal Gov is going to start sticking its nose into gaming, more and more. Failure to regulate yourself invites outside help, and the U.S. Government isn't exactly known as the people that make things better.
Not to mention, when they set up their Internet Police, taxes will have to be implemented to pay for that. I am sure some sort of universal user identification will be required because you know, little Johnny is so damn stupid he eats tide pods, we need to make sure he can't just move around freely on the Net.
Keep playing the asshole, the government will be the dick and we will see who gets fucked.
Watch how many of these companies push it even harder to cash in as much as possible before any regulation comes into effect.
Don't give your kid a credit card, don't let him/her buy anything online without your supervision. if they somehow get it with your money without your approval. get the belt ffs. soft parents=soft kids.
Comments
Just loot boxes and mythical p2w? LOLZ
Not only it sounds stupid, but there are alot of other ways to scam/cash grab. (Its only kids like to shout "P2W!" everywhere)
At this point they just wanna piece of pie :P
Like i said before, its only good on paper, but its not gonna work cause the whole "game" industry exist right now on fooling kids.
P.S. Pagan ONLINE.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
The industry had it's chance to rein their greed, but not only refused, but gone the complete opposite way. If anything, they were left unchecked for way too long.
All the places that dabble in gambling have strictly imposed rules. Why do you thing these were set in place and why would the digital space should be exempt from them?
seriously? am i the only one seeing the irony here?
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
And that's exactly what I would be doing if I was their age, it is a badge of honour with your mates to get round your parents and security measures to play what you want to. You need to understand that to know how tough it will be to impact. Legislation won't be enough, that's often the case, it is more like damage limitation than a solution.
Each player will have to pay their OWN way, no more playing for "free" while someone else pays for your gaming...
I hope the next move is to go back to the Turbine Model, where companies let you play like 20% of the game as a free trial, and you need to either pay a sub or buy access to the content to access the other 80% of the game.
They will cry.. but hey.. they will have their vaunted Sub back.. which they will cry about.
Seaspite
Playing ESO on my X-Box
You don't live in genuine fear of the food products you buy on a daily basis because the processing and packaging conditions are monitored and regulated by the government.
Your pretending to do so only shows how pitiful the general "regulations are bad" statement is. Regulations are merely tools. How good or bad they are comes down to how they're implemented, not some nature you wish to ascribe to them.
Sadly, you are probably correct.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
I self identify as a monkey.
I understand everything you're saying, but what I'm not getting is why everyone is behaving as if simply disallowing/blocking mobile games isn't a viable option or removing the types of hardware that allow anything beyond communication. It's like giving a kid a Leapfrog instead of an iPad Pro, why is that such contentious idea?
https://families.google.com/familylink/
https://www.qustodio.com/en/
Regardless, I wouldn't be surprised if companies like Tencent don't already have a bag of money rammed up the behinds of the Senate majority through Super Pacs. This is a fight that gets waged when we're in a reasonable climate not when 1+1 = 5, notarized documents = fake, "i just said this" = "i didn't say that".
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
With Neverwinter Online I just stopped playing. I really don't see the need for regulation. I do hope that if it is regulated the games that relied on loot boxes and microtransactions for development, which all the people who seem to like and crave, either stop being made or cost a ton more and really screw all the authoritarians looking to the government to save them from themselves.
"It's not a matter of if, It's a matter of when"
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Not to mention, when they set up their Internet Police, taxes will have to be implemented to pay for that. I am sure some sort of universal user identification will be required because you know, little Johnny is so damn stupid he eats tide pods, we need to make sure he can't just move around freely on the Net.
Keep playing the asshole, the government will be the dick and we will see who gets fucked.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
It's self fulfilling.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
This bill and very thread being a prime example.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯