But it isn’t, abandonware requires its developer not to have discontinued the product. That is not the case here.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
"It can refer to a product that is no longer available for legal purchase..."
If you still have a copy of the client software it is fully-functional. But useless without NCsoft's servers. It's the literal definition of abandoned.
All those crying about "stolen code" need to crawl back under their bridges.
But it isn’t, abandonware requires its developer not to have discontinued the product. That is not the case here.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
"It can refer to a product that is no longer available for legal purchase..."
If you still have a copy of the client software it is fully-functional. But useless without NCsoft's servers. It's the literal definition of abandoned.
All those crying about "stolen code" need to crawl back under their bridges.
Cheers!
I literally took the requirement I posted out of your own link, it talks about abandonware versus discontinued support on products. NCSoft discontinued the support and thereby made the game unplayable. By the definition you yourself brought up it isn’t abandonware but a discontinued product which isn’t the same.
Instead of referring to another topic, the code being stolen or not that is, and linking that to trolls it would perhaps be better to provide more suitable evidence to support your cause next time.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
But it isn’t, abandonware requires its developer not to have discontinued the product. That is not the case here.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
"It can refer to a product that is no longer available for legal purchase..."
If you still have a copy of the client software it is fully-functional. But useless without NCsoft's servers. It's the literal definition of abandoned.
All those crying about "stolen code" need to crawl back under their bridges.
Cheers!
I literally took the requirement I posted out of your own link, it talks about abandonware versus discontinued support on products. NCSoft discontinued the support and thereby made the game unplayable. By the definition you yourself brought up it isn’t abandonware but a discontinued product which isn’t the same.
Instead of referring to another topic, the code being stolen or not that is, and linking that to trolls it would perhaps be better to provide more suitable evidence to support your cause next time.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
I don't think that's accurate. For example: Microsoft discontinues support on Windows XP. A person can still use Windows XP and get functionality out of it. Your CoH/CoX discs are useless. There is no way to get functionality from them, unless something like a private server is created. The company who used to provide services for this game no longer does, and has abandoned their community. To me this qualifies as abandonware.
But it isn’t, abandonware requires its developer not to have discontinued the product. That is not the case here.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
"It can refer to a product that is no longer available for legal purchase..."
If you still have a copy of the client software it is fully-functional. But useless without NCsoft's servers. It's the literal definition of abandoned.
All those crying about "stolen code" need to crawl back under their bridges.
Cheers!
I literally took the requirement I posted out of your own link, it talks about abandonware versus discontinued support on products. NCSoft discontinued the support and thereby made the game unplayable. By the definition you yourself brought up it isn’t abandonware but a discontinued product which isn’t the same.
Instead of referring to another topic, the code being stolen or not that is, and linking that to trolls it would perhaps be better to provide more suitable evidence to support your cause next time.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
I don't think that's accurate. For example: Microsoft discontinues support on Windows XP. A person can still use Windows XP and get functionality out of it. Your CoH/CoX discs are useless. There is no way to get functionality from them, unless something like a private server is created. The company who used to provide services for this game no longer does, and has abandoned their community. To me this qualifies as abandonware.
We can most definitely debate that, I was just referring to the definition quoted which clearly states:
A difference between abandonware and a discontinued product is that the manufacturer has not officially 'discontinued' the software, but only ended their official efforts at technical support.
NCSoft most definitely officially discontinued the product, they didn't "just" stop to technically support it. Because in that case you could still play the game, there just wouldn't be anymore bug solving, new content, forum help etc.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
So someone 'stole' the server code or reverse engineered it (highly unlikely) and the community is in support of this illegal behavior? HAHAHAHAHA!!!
There is ALWAYS several ways to look at things in life,i will try and spell this one out to make it obvious.
Imagine you buy a car ,need a part but the manufacturer shuts down.Then what scrap the car?Oh but wait,some other manufacturer is going to copy those parts and sell them so you can continue to drive the car you PURCHASED and paid taxes on. [mod edit no politics]
If you or i buy something,we 100% fully expect to use it,we do not ever want our purchase to be held hostage by anyone,not a developer,publisher,anyone.If somehow we are INTERFERING with that business,then yeah there is a big argument however as noted>>DISBANDED games.Very few places in this world is our purchase held hostage by some legal lawyer crap involving copyright and licenses.
If i had a choice,a vote i would strike the term license completely out of the equation because it is a one way street here,protect the developer but not the consumer.In my books and in the eye of people with common sense,we OWN these games we bought with real money,to us these are NOT licenses,so yeah a LOT needs to change inside of law.
Post edited by MikeB on
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
This is a grey area, just because players want to play CoH does not make this right. I can but hope this makes NCSoft see that there is potential for CoH once again.
I tried it out and remembered why i didn't like it more than Champions Online. The early levels are so slow and just bad and the enhancement system was bad to me. But good luck to people still playing it. Can't wait to see what NCsoft does about their stolen IP.
But it isn’t, abandonware requires its developer not to have discontinued the product. That is not the case here.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
"It can refer to a product that is no longer available for legal purchase..."
If you still have a copy of the client software it is fully-functional. But useless without NCsoft's servers. It's the literal definition of abandoned.
All those crying about "stolen code" need to crawl back under their bridges.
Cheers!
I literally took the requirement I posted out of your own link, it talks about abandonware versus discontinued support on products. NCSoft discontinued the support and thereby made the game unplayable. By the definition you yourself brought up it isn’t abandonware but a discontinued product which isn’t the same.
Instead of referring to another topic, the code being stolen or not that is, and linking that to trolls it would perhaps be better to provide more suitable evidence to support your cause next time.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
I don't think that's accurate. For example: Microsoft discontinues support on Windows XP. A person can still use Windows XP and get functionality out of it. Your CoH/CoX discs are useless. There is no way to get functionality from them, unless something like a private server is created. The company who used to provide services for this game no longer does, and has abandoned their community. To me this qualifies as abandonware.
We can most definitely debate that, I was just referring to the definition quoted which clearly states:
A difference between abandonware and a discontinued product is that the manufacturer has not officially 'discontinued' the software, but only ended their official efforts at technical support.
NCSoft most definitely officially discontinued the product, they didn't "just" stop to technically support it. Because in that case you could still play the game, there just wouldn't be anymore bug solving, new content, forum help etc.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
No one was ever able to run the server code. It was never sold to any individual or organization outside of the NCSoft umbrella. It was a private corporate asset, and is the major part of the COH IP. To my knowledge, that IP has not transferred ownership.
This isn't an emulation, or reverse-engineered version of the COH server code. It was stolen. That is piracy.
Playing this stolen version of the game directly supports piracy, as does discussions like this. The parties that stole this code are getting free advertising from this discussion. (Yes, I hate myself for contributing).
If I were a lawyer (I'm not, you can tell by the fact that I'm not charging MMORPG.com anything for this advice), I'd suggest closing this discussion and others concerning this stolen code. It's ethically wrong, and NCSoft might have legal recourse against this site for advertising this. Besides, who knows what NCSoft is actually going to do, or when.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
But it isn’t, abandonware requires its developer not to have discontinued the product. That is not the case here.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
"It can refer to a product that is no longer available for legal purchase..."
If you still have a copy of the client software it is fully-functional. But useless without NCsoft's servers. It's the literal definition of abandoned.
All those crying about "stolen code" need to crawl back under their bridges.
Cheers!
I literally took the requirement I posted out of your own link, it talks about abandonware versus discontinued support on products. NCSoft discontinued the support and thereby made the game unplayable. By the definition you yourself brought up it isn’t abandonware but a discontinued product which isn’t the same.
Instead of referring to another topic, the code being stolen or not that is, and linking that to trolls it would perhaps be better to provide more suitable evidence to support your cause next time.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
I don't think that's accurate. For example: Microsoft discontinues support on Windows XP. A person can still use Windows XP and get functionality out of it. Your CoH/CoX discs are useless. There is no way to get functionality from them, unless something like a private server is created. The company who used to provide services for this game no longer does, and has abandoned their community. To me this qualifies as abandonware.
We can most definitely debate that, I was just referring to the definition quoted which clearly states:
A difference between abandonware and a discontinued product is that the manufacturer has not officially 'discontinued' the software, but only ended their official efforts at technical support.
NCSoft most definitely officially discontinued the product, they didn't "just" stop to technically support it. Because in that case you could still play the game, there just wouldn't be anymore bug solving, new content, forum help etc.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
No one was ever able to run the server code. It was never sold to any individual or organization outside of the NCSoft umbrella. It was a private corporate asset, and is the major part of the COH IP. To my knowledge, that IP has not transferred ownership.
This isn't an emulation, or reverse-engineered version of the COH server code. It was stolen. That is piracy.
Playing this stolen version of the game directly supports piracy, as does discussions like this. The parties that stole this code are getting free advertising from this discussion. (Yes, I hate myself for contributing).
If I were a lawyer (I'm not, you can tell by the fact that I'm not charging MMORPG.com anything for this advice), I'd suggest closing this discussion and others concerning this stolen code. It's ethically wrong, and NCSoft might have legal recourse against this site for advertising this. Besides, who knows what NCSoft is actually going to do, or when.
Dear lord, pearl clutch much?
Nothing NCsoft can do. The code is out in the wild. Anyone can create private servers. AFAIC it's all fair game since NCsoft abandoned it in 2012.
You don't have to play if you are bothered with the grey area morality of this, no one will miss you while they are having fun.
I think it has more to do with the emotional entitlement some display then with people just playing. Or perhaps the snarky attitude, or not knowing the difference between abandoned or discontinued. Or, my favourite, saying it is perfectly fine because of “those evil companies.”
Its a grey area definitely but lets not make up reasons why it is perfectly okay to do what you do. Just be a man about it and say ‘F this, I don’t care if its legal or not, I just want to play.’
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
This is a grey area, just because players want to play CoH does not make this right. I can but hope this makes NCSoft see that there is potential for CoH once again.
It's only a grey area if you subscribe to corporate copyright and that they have the right to own code. I don't believe in that. I believe that ideas should be shared through copy left licensing (like the GPL). Copyright and patents were created to give an inventor or creator some time to benefit from their idea before others could jump in. It was never designed to hold them hostage.
edit: Besides, this stuff is a derail of the topic. Mike actually wrote a really useful starter guide with pitfalls to avoid and tips to use. He deserves some credit for that not have his thread dumped on and derailed by a bunch of virtue signalers.
If I invent something I would expect to have that copyrighted to me unless I decided to give it up. Which I actually have to do as a matter of public record. So I don't agree. However the inventions can be "licensed" to other individuals what we have here is no license being issued. That's their right, I understand copyright it is a minimum of 70 years? Though it does rather resemble a child who won't lend his toys.
I am still holding out that NCsoft wakes up and decides to look at CoH again, here I may be hopelessly optimistic. By the way I think this may only be the second time in my life I have been called a virtue signaller.
Scrapper is a fun archetype. Nice balance between offense and defense. Good for soloing and in groups.
I'd go with Brute myself, unless they have changed them a lot, the way their attacks increase their damage is addictive, and somewhat dangerous as addictions are XD
Scrapper is a fun archetype. Nice balance between offense and defense. Good for soloing and in groups.
I'd go with Brute myself, unless they have changed them a lot, the way their attacks increase their damage is addictive, and somewhat dangerous as addictions are XD
I rolled a Brute, been fun so far. He's Average Joe, and is a skinny dude with "super strength" via manipulation of his own kinetic and potential energy (energy armor).
There's never been an MMORPG inspire the RPer in me more than CoH.
Having a blast with my Ninja/Dark Miasma MM. Hopefully NCSoft works out some official means for hosting. After my vanilla Wow experience, it's clear that official license/hosting is the only resolution.
If I invent something I would expect to have that copyrighted to me unless I decided to give it up. Which I actually have to do as a matter of public record. So I don't agree. However the inventions can be "licensed" to other individuals what we have here is no license being issued. That's their right, I understand copyright it is a minimum of 70 years? Though it does rather resemble a child who won't lend his toys.
I am still holding out that NCsoft wakes up and decides to look at CoH again, here I may be hopelessly optimistic. By the way I think this may only be the second time in my life I have been called a virtue signaller.
I don't think things are that black and white. The rules for copyright favour the owners heavily because people with money have made sure it's that way. To me, NC Soft may own it, but they chose to shut it down because the studio they created pulled some shenanigans (apparently). They haven't done much with the IP aside from throw some of the major characters into a different type of game, and that game is gone now too. So I don't care if they own it. They could have done something with the game to avoid this situation.
If I were them I'd start the game back up again as a hosted community project. Start the old servers back up, charge some minimal subscription fee or allow content creators to sell their creations through an NC run store and they take a cut. The community would support and take care of any new development, NC would only need to do some oversight.
Scrapper is a fun archetype. Nice balance between offense and defense. Good for soloing and in groups.
I'd go with Brute myself, unless they have changed them a lot, the way their attacks increase their damage is addictive, and somewhat dangerous as addictions are XD
I rolled a Brute, been fun so far. He's Average Joe, and is a skinny dude with "super strength" via manipulation of his own kinetic and potential energy (energy armor).
There's never been an MMORPG inspire the RPer in me more than CoH.
For sure on the RP thing, I noticed on homecoming there are Vigilante and . . . one other pseudo villain option on their discord, not sure if that is a solely RP thing, or if there are any actual in-game mechanics. The macro system and text bubble options are great for RP too. I used to have a bunch of macros to link animated emotes with text. You could attach a battle cry like "Spoon!" to one of your attacks too
I tried it out and remembered why i didn't like it more than Champions Online. The early levels are so slow and just bad and the enhancement system was bad to me. But good luck to people still playing it. Can't wait to see what NCsoft does about their stolen IP.
Game isn't meant to be soloed especially the first few levels. Get into a sewer team and bam! You will be 10 in no time. The enhancement system is quite brilliant and allows for a great deal of customization. It requires a lot of research to find which invention enhancements will suit your playstyle. Game is so much fun in a group. One of the few games I never want to solo. The wonderful synergy between so many powers is so much fun and the Holy Trinity is completely disregarded if you play smartly. Only the clueless ask for heals when looking for team mates.
The writing is very good especially for the Rogue and Villain sides. The story arcs are thrilling. I absolutely love this game and am so glad it is back.
Speaking in inventions, I stopped playing CoH shortly after they were added... At what level should I be looking to add invention enhancements as opposed to the regular ole enhancements that drop?
Speaking in inventions, I stopped playing CoH shortly after they were added... At what level should I be looking to add invention enhancements as opposed to the regular ole enhancements that drop?
Well at lower levels they are not worth it but at about 25 the basic inventions will give a good enough boost to be better than the Single Origin ones especially because they never expire and stay at the same potency. I start using them at level 15 when I do the tutorial where you get the standard IO, one of them for free. I do this because I dislike buying the double origins but the AH has the double origins sometimes even cheaper than the shops.
As for the special IOs that give bonuses when you use a set you can start using them at around 20 or so but some of them have every expensive ingredients. I think may be saving for them and getting them later might be a better idea but I enjoy getting them because if I have the ingredients and influence/infamy I just make them. At 20 though the SOs may be more beneficial in terms of percentages. I like having the bonuses from the sets .
Comments
"It can refer to a product that is no longer available for legal purchase..."
If you still have a copy of the client software it is fully-functional. But useless without NCsoft's servers. It's the literal definition of abandoned.
All those crying about "stolen code" need to crawl back under their bridges.
Cheers!
Instead of referring to another topic, the code being stolen or not that is, and linking that to trolls it would perhaps be better to provide more suitable evidence to support your cause next time.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
A difference between abandonware and a discontinued product is that the manufacturer has not officially 'discontinued' the software, but only ended their official efforts at technical support.
NCSoft most definitely officially discontinued the product, they didn't "just" stop to technically support it. Because in that case you could still play the game, there just wouldn't be anymore bug solving, new content, forum help etc.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Imagine you buy a car ,need a part but the manufacturer shuts down.Then what scrap the car?Oh but wait,some other manufacturer is going to copy those parts and sell them so you can continue to drive the car you PURCHASED and paid taxes on.
[mod edit no politics]
If you or i buy something,we 100% fully expect to use it,we do not ever want our purchase to be held hostage by anyone,not a developer,publisher,anyone.If somehow we are INTERFERING with that business,then yeah there is a big argument however as noted>>DISBANDED games.Very few places in this world is our purchase held hostage by some legal lawyer crap involving copyright and licenses.
If i had a choice,a vote i would strike the term license completely out of the equation because it is a one way street here,protect the developer but not the consumer.In my books and in the eye of people with common sense,we OWN these games we bought with real money,to us these are NOT licenses,so yeah a LOT needs to change inside of law.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Dear lord, pearl clutch much?
Nothing NCsoft can do. The code is out in the wild. Anyone can create private servers. AFAIC it's all fair game since NCsoft abandoned it in 2012.
Its a grey area definitely but lets not make up reasons why it is perfectly okay to do what you do. Just be a man about it and say ‘F this, I don’t care if its legal or not, I just want to play.’
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
I am still holding out that NCsoft wakes up and decides to look at CoH again, here I may be hopelessly optimistic. By the way I think this may only be the second time in my life I have been called a virtue signaller.
I'd go with Brute myself, unless they have changed them a lot, the way their attacks increase their damage is addictive, and somewhat dangerous as addictions are XD
There's never been an MMORPG inspire the RPer in me more than CoH.
Just a time sink until Classic Wow but welcomed.
You stay sassy!
If I were them I'd start the game back up again as a hosted community project. Start the old servers back up, charge some minimal subscription fee or allow content creators to sell their creations through an NC run store and they take a cut. The community would support and take care of any new development, NC would only need to do some oversight.
As for the special IOs that give bonuses when you use a set you can start using them at around 20 or so but some of them have every expensive ingredients. I think may be saving for them and getting them later might be a better idea but I enjoy getting them because if I have the ingredients and influence/infamy I just make them. At 20 though the SOs may be more beneficial in terms of percentages. I like having the bonuses from the sets .