I must admit I find these types of threads difficult to understand. I've played SWG and WoW when in beta and when they launched and a few more of the popular original MMO's. They were good in some ways but also bad in some ways just like today's MMO's. WoW and SWG forums had all kinds of drama going on in them and complaints about game play, balance issues, gold sellers, bots, grouping, pvp, pve, and other players just like today. I really don't think all that much has changed.
People complained about games back then pretty much like they complain about them now. The issues they complained about back then other players didn't have a problem with and even liked just like today.
SWG's forums were archived the last time I checked and would be pretty easy to talk about the complaints from back then about the game pre and post cu.
I can understand complaining about things in a game that aren't compatible with your playstyle but implying mmo's were in a golden age back then is something different.
I also played both in beta (or tried SWG beta a little since I didn't like it). I never complained on either's forums about anything.
For a lot of people who loved SWG it stopped being SWG after the new player experience or whatever that overhaul was called. I'm in the super minority of people who actually liked it more after that patch. But, since I realized I am not an emperor and the world doesn't revolve around me I never went the forum and told everyone they are wrong for being angry their game was changed from one they wanted to play into one I wanted to play.
The opposite happened to me in WoW during cataclysm when they gutted absolutely everything that made WoW WoW to me.
The question isn't if the game's forum will be filled with awful, whiney people - that's a given. The sentiment is we want an mmorpg that will interest us to be made and we will all assume it will definitely have forums filled with awful whiney people demanding it be morphed into something else.
My original MUD was a special experience but it took an mmorpg to recreate parts of the experience I had in my original MUD. In a similar fashion it will take something far more advanced to recreate my mmorpg experience.
The other part of the problem is that I spent lots of hours per week playing both MUD and mmorpg, with sense of community being such a large part of my experience I really can't commit the same time on it.
The moment I get retired I will have lots and lots of time playing something in the same vein of mmorpg and its a rather long time til that happens. By that time I seriously hope the gameplay has advanced because I would rather stare at a wall in a retirement home than spend more time playing just another leveling simulator.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
I must admit I find these types of threads difficult to understand. I've played SWG and WoW when in beta and when they launched and a few more of the popular original MMO's. They were good in some ways but also bad in some ways just like today's MMO's. WoW and SWG forums had all kinds of drama going on in them and complaints about game play, balance issues, gold sellers, bots, grouping, pvp, pve, and other players just like today. I really don't think all that much has changed.
People complained about games back then pretty much like they complain about them now. The issues they complained about back then other players didn't have a problem with and even liked just like today.
SWG's forums were archived the last time I checked and would be pretty easy to talk about the complaints from back then about the game pre and post cu.
I can understand complaining about things in a game that aren't compatible with your playstyle but implying mmo's were in a golden age back then is something different.
I also played both in beta (or tried SWG beta a little since I didn't like it). I never complained on either's forums about anything.
For a lot of people who loved SWG it stopped being SWG after the new player experience or whatever that overhaul was called. I'm in the super minority of people who actually liked it more after that patch. But, since I realized I am not an emperor and the world doesn't revolve around me I never went the forum and told everyone they are wrong for being angry their game was changed from one they wanted to play into one I wanted to play.
The opposite happened to me in WoW during cataclysm when they gutted absolutely everything that made WoW WoW to me.
The question isn't if the game's forum will be filled with awful, whiney people - that's a given. The sentiment is we want an mmorpg that will interest us to be made and we will all assume it will definitely have forums filled with awful whiney people demanding it be morphed into something else.
I played SWG off and on until the day the server closed. Still login to SWG Legends from time to time for play sessions. Which is how I get my fix for the old days.
I do think the forums illustrated what was happening in the game itself at the time. Back then and to this day if there's a problem with gameplay, I'll go to the forums and express my thoughts.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
We're going down a path where games will become more and more MMORPG like. It's all based on publishers "needing" to be more Games As A Service-y, and competing with every other publisher being more GAAS focused. And frankly the most MMO like games as a service will be the one that has the most apparent value to players in whatever genre it's playing as (read as having the most unlimited play loop, and most access to your friends/ability to make friends).
We need some sort of cycle to keep players going. Leveling mechanics are now in pretty much all games now.
Players go through content too fast for that to be the retention mechanic. Solution need Player Interaction mechanics.
PvP alone is not enough to keep people in the game. Need to have more social mechanics.
Cosmetics are for the most part only thing players will tolerate in the most monetize-able thing (loot boxes). We need to get players in front of other players more often to increase the apparent value of cosmetics.
Funny part is you can see Anthem struggling through all of those stages laughably enough. Leveling is obvious enough, raids are in for player interaction, guilds are a high priority update, and they shoddily put together a multiplayer social hub before launch for the last one.
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
Good post Delete. I was able to finish it and understand your point.
What you wish is a feeling that comes with novelty, wonder, and excitement, first mmos were like going to disney world as a kid or when you first drove on your own when you got a license.
You are not going to get that back.
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Most of you don’t see it, but Mordhau might is the type of miracle mmoRPGS need. It will bring younger players into the genre.
The genre wont be what you remember, but it will be alive. It will be your choice if you choose to adapt and grow, or get left behind.
MMORPG? How is Mordhau in any way an MMO or an RPG, forget being both. Looks like a great game, but not relevant to this conversation.
I didn’t say it was. I think you miss understood. The MMO part can be debated as you know but I won’t.
I see it as a gateway game. The combat, the charter building. Those are the type of RPG lite elements that can peak the interest of this younger generation of gamers and lead them to true mmorpgs.
But after half a decade or maybe a whole ten years, they will come back because people really do want to have huge worlds to explore, build and quest in.
I must admit I find these types of threads difficult to understand. I've played SWG and WoW when in beta and when they launched and a few more of the popular original MMO's. They were good in some ways but also bad in some ways just like today's MMO's. WoW and SWG forums had all kinds of drama going on in them and complaints about game play, balance issues, gold sellers, bots, grouping, pvp, pve, and other players just like today. I really don't think all that much has changed.
People complained about games back then pretty much like they complain about them now. The issues they complained about back then other players didn't have a problem with and even liked just like today.
SWG's forums were archived the last time I checked and would be pretty easy to talk about the complaints from back then about the game pre and post cu.
I can understand complaining about things in a game that aren't compatible with your playstyle but implying mmo's were in a golden age back then is something different.
the difference is todays mmos are all dumbed down can be finished inside 3 months ,and so many of them have cash shops .yes there were problems with the older mmos but the addictiveness was their ,if you released the likes of swg and eq1/2 today im not sure if todays players would like them at all but the interest in Pantheon gives me hope and maybe im wrong
Good post Delete. I was able to finish it and understand your point.
What you wish is a feeling that comes with novelty, wonder, and excitement, first mmos were like going to disney world as a kid or when you first drove on your own when you got a license.
You are not going to get that back.
Yeah, I can still remember the first time my character first landed in SWG. It was wonderful. I couldn't understand anything in most of the chat bobbles because you had to learn the languages of all the different species. You could buy them from a trainer but you had no money. Another player saw I was brand new and taught all the languages to me right of the bat., just as someone had taught him.
People for the most part were eager to help. Even a week before the game shut down players were running around giving away their most valuable stuff to strangers so they got a chance to try them out being unable to obtain them. Good times...
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Since 2012 when the F2P and cash shop games were first gaining ground, it showed how the future of games were pretty much heading to a dead end where we are at now. We as real gamers lost... F2P and cash shop, now loot box games won and now we are here with nothing but crap. I got a few bans here for battling pro F2P backers here on this forum back then about how it was going to change and ruin the game market as we know it. It was obvious and now we get to reap what the majority has sown in this new age of how much can we make from milking our players instead of how much can we engage our audience in this game.
I understand people are waiting for a game that is amazing. But I don't think a lot of gamers want their "hand held" so to speak like what has been mentioned above. I was an avid player of WoW when it was interesting to me, but it has definitely gotten easier over the years to play and do what you want to do. I don't think it's hand holding but what I think it is, is that a developer has taken into consideration that old school players like myself do not have the time to invest as much as we used to. People have to get up early and go to work to get bills paid and some jobs you just can't go and nap at. I used to play as long as 10+ hours through a raid boss to try and get a kill to see that sweet loot, but those days are long gone for me unfortunately. But I don't think it's a case of hand holding; by making an MMO with different stages of difficulty is nice for a variety of players and that's the best option for a large player base. No matter what game is created, you're always going to have people complain.
Ah I don't believe you'd like it, You wouldn't like it here There ain't no entertainment And the judgments are severe The Maestro says it's Mozart But it sounds like bubble gum When you're waiting For the miracle, for the miracle to come
Waiting for the miracle There's nothing left to do
Post edited by ConstantineMerus on
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
Good post Delete. I was able to finish it and understand your point.
What you wish is a feeling that comes with novelty, wonder, and excitement, first mmos were like going to disney world as a kid or when you first drove on your own when you got a license.
You are not going to get that back.
Without brain washing/ erasing memories type of technology and also time travel to replicate the playerbase from 20 years ago....yep never gonna get that back.
But many players still wish for the impossible /shrug
The only thing you have going on is this: Short lived games is all thats left. Short easy 30 day games without a need for community. It's all that is left. mmorpg's have not been made for over 10 years to prove opposite.
I have yet to see you or someone like you answer this question: If something is taken away, how do you know it's still wanted or not ?
Companies took mmorpgs away. If all food companies took away apples, what prof is their that people like apples ?
It seems when ever someone confronts you with a question that you DON'T like to answer, you simply ignore it.
You also seem to have a selfish way about your post. If you no longer have time to play, then no one has time to play.
Comments
For a lot of people who loved SWG it stopped being SWG after the new player experience or whatever that overhaul was called. I'm in the super minority of people who actually liked it more after that patch. But, since I realized I am not an emperor and the world doesn't revolve around me I never went the forum and told everyone they are wrong for being angry their game was changed from one they wanted to play into one I wanted to play.
The opposite happened to me in WoW during cataclysm when they gutted absolutely everything that made WoW WoW to me.
The question isn't if the game's forum will be filled with awful, whiney people - that's a given. The sentiment is we want an mmorpg that will interest us to be made and we will all assume it will definitely have forums filled with awful whiney people demanding it be morphed into something else.
The other part of the problem is that I spent lots of hours per week playing both MUD and mmorpg, with sense of community being such a large part of my experience I really can't commit the same time on it.
The moment I get retired I will have lots and lots of time playing something in the same vein of mmorpg and its a rather long time til that happens. By that time I seriously hope the gameplay has advanced because I would rather stare at a wall in a retirement home than spend more time playing just another leveling simulator.
I do think the forums illustrated what was happening in the game itself at the time. Back then and to this day if there's a problem with gameplay, I'll go to the forums and express my thoughts.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
The genre wont be what you remember, but it will be alive. It will be your choice if you choose to adapt and grow, or get left behind.
MMORPG? How is Mordhau in any way an MMO or an RPG, forget being both. Looks like a great game, but not relevant to this conversation.
What you wish is a feeling that comes with novelty, wonder, and excitement, first mmos were like going to disney world as a kid or when you first drove on your own when you got a license.
You are not going to get that back.
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
I see it as a gateway game. The combat, the charter building. Those are the type of RPG lite elements that can peak the interest of this younger generation of gamers and lead them to true mmorpgs.
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
People for the most part were eager to help. Even a week before the game shut down players were running around giving away their most valuable stuff to strangers so they got a chance to try them out being unable to obtain them. Good times...
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
SWG was the best ever till they ruined it and ignored our 500k signed petition.
GW2 wvw if fun but after rank 2k or so there is nothing to gain.
You wouldn't like it here
There ain't no entertainment
And the judgments are severe
The Maestro says it's Mozart
But it sounds like bubble gum
When you're waiting
For the miracle, for the miracle to come
There's nothing left to do
Short lived games is all thats left. Short easy 30 day games without a need for community. It's all that is left. mmorpg's have not been made for over 10 years to prove opposite.
I have yet to see you or someone like you answer this question:
If something is taken away, how do you know it's still wanted or not ?
Companies took mmorpgs away.
If all food companies took away apples, what prof is their that people like apples ?
It seems when ever someone confronts you with a question that you DON'T like to answer, you simply ignore it.
You also seem to have a selfish way about your post. If you no longer have time to play, then no one has time to play.