Just kill WoW and make WoW 2. Stop putting resources into a dying/outdated game and instead give us the next blockbuster MMORPG.
The old Blizzard is dead. Almost everyone from the old garde is gone.
Even if they wanted to, they won't be able to pull it off. They aren't even able to release a proper expansion to WoW anymore without royally messing it up and Diablo 3 hasn't got anything meaningful for years now.
And anyone having their hopes up for WoW Classic should severely reign in their expectations, as I am pretty sure they will be able to mess that one up as well somehow.
All they currently seem to care about is that stupid Diablo Mobile game. Activision is pulling all the strings now.
Oh and as far as a "level squish" would it matter if you shot yourself in the foot whether someone wrote 60 or 120 on the band aid?
Maybe they should have thought about it when it was relevant before giving people millions of hitpoints and damage numbers that looked like a calculator just got mashed by a 2 year old.
They could have capped the levels and done a horizontal progression at any time. Now they have ridiculous numbers.
I don't think the numbers matter as much as the actual game play. Pacing, challenge, risk vs reward, balance, accessibility vs social and community features...
You know what maybe some of these current WoW devs should go play Classic to see what's up.
It wasn't because the level cap was 60 instead of 120.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
"By reducing the number of levels a player has to attain, talents can be redistributed so that players are actually feeling stronger through gaining new skills and with fewer gaps between "big" increases in power thanks to talents."
Did anyone else not find this hilarious to read when the last time your class actually gains something is at level 100....? 101 to 120 gives your character absolutely nothing (unless you're a demon hunter, so good on them...?) yet Ion has the nerve to say "fewer gaps between talents."
they will do it , ppl has asked before why there is a huge gap from lvl 100 to 120 w/o talents , 20 lvls ganing NOTHING , yeah at 110 u gain some passive crap but meh.
seriously, when the design team starts contemplating such changes, I think it's safe to say that the game has run its course and it's time to start anew. *ahem*, *Classic*, *ahem*
Well I thought "leveling" your artifact weapon was the way to go or the changing of armor with different stat/ability bonuses. Give people more choices on where they can focus by continuing with a leveling scheme to weapons/armor instead of one with characters themselves.
I guess that's my suggestion, instead of dealing with a big back lash to squishing the levels.
This creates more relevant content for veteran players and removes a barrier to entry for new players or returning players by not needed to grind out tons of levels. This is the GW2: Releasing new content without new levels because at some point it becomes unnecessary to increase level cap. All content in GW2 is relevant to someone and by playing in any of the zones will yield you positive results for whatever goals you are aiming to achieve.
If a guild wants to farm XYZ raid content from 5 years ago, let them. And let those items and epics stand up against more recently released content/epic items.
seriously, when the design team starts contemplating such changes, I think it's safe to say that the game has run its course and it's time to start anew. *ahem*, *Classic*, *ahem*
I definitely agree with you, and I am actually excited about classic even though I don't play WoW anymore.
BUT...if they then need to release Classic because levels are now pointless, I think its time for WoW 2 instead or a new game. WoW is still profitable but its been on a decline for many years. So what if its the biggest MMO if people aren't staying subbed for months or years on end like they used to. Hell, ESO is close to WoW's concurrent playerbase numbers but no one likes to acknowledge that.
Only one thing will make WoW better, listen to your f'ing customers and stop making stupid changes no one wants. They ask questions like this, but even if 99% of players say no they will do it anyway.
To be fair, a lot of the reason retail is what it is today is because they catered to the customers, their requests and demand for more reward from less time/effort. The continuous QOL additions snowballed out of control and left us with something so far disconnected from the game of 10+ years ago. You now walk around as a living God, making most all achievements trivial with little to no sense of accomplishment. We are completely numb from all the free handouts and hand holding.
I think Blizzard is taking notes from classic now and trying to reel retail back a bit with a level squish in an attempt to increase that sense of accomplishment, more difficult zones in 8.2 to bring back that sense of danger, some gold sinks to try to fix the economy, etc.
Classic was a dangerous world, accidentally pulling an extra mob often lead to death. The economy was living and professions mattered, every item was important and you cherished each silver you had so you could possibly afford your first mount at 40 (forget about the 60 mount right away at 60 lol). You had to make hard decisions and sacrifices often choosing to skip training most of your skills to afford that illustrious mount or x,y,z. The lack of cross realm and LFG/LFR meant reputation and social interactions mattered, it stimulated friendships, rivalry and a sense of community. Gear and mounts granted a sense of status, especially without transmogs. In PvP, you can visually assess and know what you saw is what they are wearing and what you are getting into. The general immersion was unprecedented, much of which is thanks to how vast the world felt with only 60/100% ground mounts(if you can afford), lack of and slower flight paths, etc.
TLDR: Blizzard is trying to fix retail via some notes from classic but its too far gone.
Just kill WoW and make WoW 2. Stop putting resources into a dying/outdated game and instead give us the next blockbuster MMORPG.
They can't at this point, Its like asking the people who made the Ghostbusters remake to give us something bigger and better of the Original Ghostbusters. Its not happening, Would you really want the current people in charge of WOW , The same people who butchered a once great MMO to remake another carbon copy of the shit they are putting out now ?
Back on point of the thread, They must be getting real desperate if they are asking the community for advice, this is very Un Blizzard like. They have been in the mindset for years now "the team" knows whats best for the player and not the other way around.
Only one thing will make WoW better, listen to your f'ing customers and stop making stupid changes no one wants. They ask questions like this, but even if 99% of players say no they will do it anyway.
What the bloody hell are you talking about?
They are asking because the customers have been asking for this and they are trying to gauge if its a vocal minority or a majority.
You obviously have absolutely NO idea what the WoW playerbase is like or what they want but here you are using this is as an excuse to bash Blizzard. Good job, did it make you feel better? Did it make the hurt inside go away for a second?
To me, the only thing that will make WoW retail worth playing again is for them to go back to catering to an adult audience. Unique, non-homogenized classes and roles, an actual good rpg system again with stats that do the exact same thing for class, good talent trees that are complex, meaty, and reward advanced knowledge of the minutia of the system, etc.
I would also be great if they went back to a slower, more deliberate sort of play for all content, especially dungeons. No AoE clearing. You want CC classes to sheep, sap, freeze trap, etc, to increase your change of success. Remove the ability to plow through content without a thought, and having iLvl be king of everything. Completely revamp the itemization system and devalue item tiers to favor thoughtful, good play, and good builds. Devalue strict role adherence in raids with cookie cutter ultra role focused builds. Add random AI so you have no idea what to expect in a raid so want everyone to have more survivable builds, want healers to be able to dps some, and want more tanks, etc. Make it so you don't want x amount of tanks with x ilvl, x amount of healers, x amount of ilvl dps. Make it so you want all the actual good and skillful, knowledgeable players you can get regardless of role, spec, ilvl. You want people who can play well, survive, and contribute - not people who watch videos and have all the time in the world to mimic pre-defined moves with their predefined spec and pre-defined item choices.
Stop being so formulaic and bland. Make it an actual rpg with an actual sensible rpg focus - stop focusing on the dummies and the superficial people who think transmog and other such nonsense are rpg enhancing features.
Actually... this leads right into a WoW Classic....
Release WoW Classic.... then release new expansion but squish the levels of that expansion. You can even add new expansions that are new content catered around the squished expansion.
Removing levels? Has any other MMORPG done this? I don't think so, but I'm curious if I missed something.
An announcement like this makes me think the current development team is bored. Maybe they simply ran out of ideas, or want to move on to other projects. Even working on an amazing project like WoW for 10+ years has got to become monotonous at some point. Is there level bloat in current WoW? Almost certainly. Does it need condensing? Only if they are willing to undermine players' historic time commitments and under value the rewards of long term gameplay.
Such a move could seriously crush loyal customer's spirit if presented in an insensitive way. I know a number of EQ1 loyalists. Cutting their character levels from 110 back to 60 would devastate them, and possibly do more to cause them to abandon their 20 year old characters than the sale to Daybreak did.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I've been thinking for a while that it would be a good idea to cut max level to 60 and then to double the XP requirement. 120 levels are way too many, IMO.
Comments
Even if they wanted to, they won't be able to pull it off. They aren't even able to release a proper expansion to WoW anymore without royally messing it up and Diablo 3 hasn't got anything meaningful for years now.
And anyone having their hopes up for WoW Classic should severely reign in their expectations, as I am pretty sure they will be able to mess that one up as well somehow.
All they currently seem to care about is that stupid Diablo Mobile game. Activision is pulling all the strings now.
I didn't think much of gnomes until I saw the creepy bodies of those mecha-gnomes.....I wish I could un-see such a sight.....
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Did anyone else not find this hilarious to read when the last time your class actually gains something is at level 100....? 101 to 120 gives your character absolutely nothing (unless you're a demon hunter, so good on them...?) yet Ion has the nerve to say "fewer gaps between talents."
If they completely remake the mechanics they risk losing all of their players. No guarantee that people would want to play it.
If they keep the same mechanics then what was the point? Other than, perhaps different art design or graphics.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/I guess that's my suggestion, instead of dealing with a big back lash to squishing the levels.
This creates more relevant content for veteran players and removes a barrier to entry for new players or returning players by not needed to grind out tons of levels. This is the GW2: Releasing new content without new levels because at some point it becomes unnecessary to increase level cap. All content in GW2 is relevant to someone and by playing in any of the zones will yield you positive results for whatever goals you are aiming to achieve.
If a guild wants to farm XYZ raid content from 5 years ago, let them. And let those items and epics stand up against more recently released content/epic items.
BUT...if they then need to release Classic because levels are now pointless, I think its time for WoW 2 instead or a new game. WoW is still profitable but its been on a decline for many years. So what if its the biggest MMO if people aren't staying subbed for months or years on end like they used to. Hell, ESO is close to WoW's concurrent playerbase numbers but no one likes to acknowledge that.
WoW 2 would be nice
To be fair, a lot of the reason retail is what it is today is because they catered to the customers, their requests and demand for more reward from less time/effort. The continuous QOL additions snowballed out of control and left us with something so far disconnected from the game of 10+ years ago. You now walk around as a living God, making most all achievements trivial with little to no sense of accomplishment. We are completely numb from all the free handouts and hand holding.
I think Blizzard is taking notes from classic now and trying to reel retail back a bit with a level squish in an attempt to increase that sense of accomplishment, more difficult zones in 8.2 to bring back that sense of danger, some gold sinks to try to fix the economy, etc.
Classic was a dangerous world, accidentally pulling an extra mob often lead to death. The economy was living and professions mattered, every item was important and you cherished each silver you had so you could possibly afford your first mount at 40 (forget about the 60 mount right away at 60 lol). You had to make hard decisions and sacrifices often choosing to skip training most of your skills to afford that illustrious mount or x,y,z. The lack of cross realm and LFG/LFR meant reputation and social interactions mattered, it stimulated friendships, rivalry and a sense of community. Gear and mounts granted a sense of status, especially without transmogs. In PvP, you can visually assess and know what you saw is what they are wearing and what you are getting into. The general immersion was unprecedented, much of which is thanks to how vast the world felt with only 60/100% ground mounts(if you can afford), lack of and slower flight paths, etc.
TLDR: Blizzard is trying to fix retail via some notes from classic but its too far gone.
More like a day or two.
Back on point of the thread, They must be getting real desperate if they are asking the community for advice, this is very Un Blizzard like. They have been in the mindset for years now "the team" knows whats best for the player and not the other way around.
Aloha Mr Hand !
What the bloody hell are you talking about?
They are asking because the customers have been asking for this and they are trying to gauge if its a vocal minority or a majority.
You obviously have absolutely NO idea what the WoW playerbase is like or what they want but here you are using this is as an excuse to bash Blizzard. Good job, did it make you feel better? Did it make the hurt inside go away for a second?
I would also be great if they went back to a slower, more deliberate sort of play for all content, especially dungeons. No AoE clearing. You want CC classes to sheep, sap, freeze trap, etc, to increase your change of success. Remove the ability to plow through content without a thought, and having iLvl be king of everything. Completely revamp the itemization system and devalue item tiers to favor thoughtful, good play, and good builds. Devalue strict role adherence in raids with cookie cutter ultra role focused builds. Add random AI so you have no idea what to expect in a raid so want everyone to have more survivable builds, want healers to be able to dps some, and want more tanks, etc. Make it so you don't want x amount of tanks with x ilvl, x amount of healers, x amount of ilvl dps. Make it so you want all the actual good and skillful, knowledgeable players you can get regardless of role, spec, ilvl. You want people who can play well, survive, and contribute - not people who watch videos and have all the time in the world to mimic pre-defined moves with their predefined spec and pre-defined item choices.
Stop being so formulaic and bland. Make it an actual rpg with an actual sensible rpg focus - stop focusing on the dummies and the superficial people who think transmog and other such nonsense are rpg enhancing features.
Release WoW Classic.... then release new expansion but squish the levels of that expansion. You can even add new expansions that are new content catered around the squished expansion.
Call it now, that is what they do.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
CP levels increase, but the world content is still built around the cp160 soft cap.
This puts a situation where players have some minor progression to attain, but it's mostly about broadening the content.
*Hint hint Blizz*
Seems they already did something similar to stats. Now they just want to do it to levels.
Honestly, seems like a bandaid on a poor game design. I'm not really knocking the design, it just wasn't really thought about lasting for 15+ years.
I think it's time to just move on to WoW 2.0