What shampoo did Jeffrey Dahmer use? (he was a serial killer that ate his victims)
<snip>
ahem... your age is showing
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Even WoW classic and CoH rogue servers are not 100% faithful renditions. They don't count because they've got "enhanced" features like UI/Graphics improvements, QoL things that weren't there, etc etc.
For me, I stopped playing FFXI which was the first MMO I played for an extended period because they went totally whacko with Abyssea and just threw the baby out with the bath water.
After that, I figured I would look at more modern games. After all, If my favorite game is down the toilet I might as well find something shiny and new to enjoy if I have to find a replacement.
I'd go play the heck out of Anarchy Online again if it came out with modern/updated graphics, DAoC too
They did a graphics update but I don't think it improved it much...Not enough to where it felt like a 2019 game, but maybe more like a 2004 game instead of 2002 lol
Always a hot topic on MMORPG.....old school vs modern MMOs, right?
Playing devil's advocate here...because I am one who thinks the old school model was better. If Everquest or DAOC were released tomorrow in their original state but with 2019 graphics, user interface, bug free.....holy crap.
Someone asked me "if Dark Age of Camelot was so great, why did you stop playing?" I was like....good question lol. Why did I stop? Well for one I tried going back and playing some of these again and they just weren't the same games they used to be. Daoc has had modern features infused with it and it just felt bad. Not to mention it just looks/feels bad for a 2019 game now. I am a little bit of a graphics whore....guilty.
I do recall when I left it was more because of the direction the game went. But I don't believe If I am being honest, would not go back and play Daoc in its classic release state in 2019 due to ancient UI, graphics, and animations. But if it were all modernized I think I would.
I still believe the old school model was better because MMORPG's back in the day were all about community and the social experience. Not that you can't have that today, but back then the model really fostered those things more so than the modern MMO which to me is mostly a solo game with a chat room.
Any thoughts?
Just curious, is there a reason your survey entirely limits respondents to people who have stopped playing classic MMORPG's entirely?
Graphics is probably the biggest one for me. I can get past the quirks, as long as the systems are deep and the game looks good.
Graphics and a lot to immersion. Yeah they will never be as good as what I saw in my mind as kid reading books and playing rpgs. They should do their best to represent though.
Lets see. UO Fucked up with Pub 16 which made resist useless, and my 85 Provoke like my Provoke was 50. Today UO is a waste land of emptiness. I tried to play again but honestly as someone who loves to craft no one would buy my shit like when the servers were full, housing was very expensive and the population was 250K.
SWG is dead, they fucked that game up with Jedi. After the Jedi came out and everyone was grinding for a Jedi the game sucked. Then they did the CU update which screwed shit more. Even the private servers are dead, yea 2000 people online at one time great but there is not enough people overall to sustain a server.
FFXI - Not the same game it was Pre-WOW when you had to have a group all the time to level.
This is why I have hope for classic WOW, UO, Ashes and Pantheon.
Always a hot topic on MMORPG.....old school vs modern MMOs, right?
Playing devil's advocate here...because I am one who thinks the old school model was better. If Everquest or DAOC were released tomorrow in their original state but with 2019 graphics, user interface, bug free.....holy crap.
Someone asked me "if Dark Age of Camelot was so great, why did you stop playing?" I was like....good question lol. Why did I stop? Well for one I tried going back and playing some of these again and they just weren't the same games they used to be. Daoc has had modern features infused with it and it just felt bad. Not to mention it just looks/feels bad for a 2019 game now. I am a little bit of a graphics whore....guilty.
I do recall when I left it was more because of the direction the game went. But I don't believe If I am being honest, would not go back and play Daoc in its classic release state in 2019 due to ancient UI, graphics, and animations. But if it were all modernized I think I would.
I still believe the old school model was better because MMORPG's back in the day were all about community and the social experience. Not that you can't have that today, but back then the model really fostered those things more so than the modern MMO which to me is mostly a solo game with a chat room.
Any thoughts?
Just curious, is there a reason your survey entirely limits respondents to people who have stopped playing classic MMORPG's entirely?
The question targets people like myself who always talk up Daoc and other old school games but don't play them anymore. The obvious question is well if they were so great, why aren't you still playing them? I didn't know how to answer and wondered how others in the same position addressed the same question. Nothing more or less than that.
Much of it is the same reason I can't play Baldud's Gate after experiencing Pillars of Eternity; lessons learned in UI means it's infinitely easier to grasp the complex system in Pillars than it is Baldur's.
Go back to Phoenix DAoC, then compare that to things like WoW's UI today: delivering feedback to the player quickly, accurately, and easily is a paramount design goal. It can go too far of course, but in general, players being able to grasp the underlying mechanics determining the end result of their efforts is generally considered a pro.
Graphics are another, as is bandwagoning and social proof. Marketing dollars also differ highly, which likely contributes as much as any other individual factor.
SWG is dead, they fucked that game up with Jedi. After the Jedi came out and everyone was grinding for a Jedi the game sucked. Then they did the CU update which screwed shit more. Even the private servers are dead, yea 2000 people online at one time great but there is not enough people overall to sustain a server.
2000 players online at one time has sustained the few popular SWG private servers just fine. You keep being cute tho.
i was really excited when they announced eqnext until i saw they were going the cartoon root .id be happy tho if they made EQ2 with 2019 graphics so yeah its the graphics and the populations that make me stop playing ,sure the latest mmos have many quality of life improvements which is to be expected but they have no soul apart from Eso but i just cant play that for long periods so maybe its just me getting older and a feeling of been their done that
Graphics are not an issue for me, I still think EQ1 graphics are good enough.
Several reasons to stop playing...
1. Too many people stopped playing so the games had to cater to smaller populations.
2. Content still pushed out making old content pointless. (I think this is why fresh start and classic servers do well--- gives people a clean slate to start at the same level as everyone else and they can end when they did all they wanted or... when everyone else does.
3. Time. When I was 9-15 I could sit on EQ leveling up in basically a giant chat room video game. Can't really do that with a job/family/other hobbies.
I do still play EQ emu, but I can start and stop without getting too far behind since content is not pushed out as frequently and most servers do not use all the content that is readily available. But on the downside, doing the same content over and over does get boring, so I take frequent breaks.
Modern MMO's I tend to lean more towards PvP since people beat the content of the game in no time and the devs abandon the games before coming out with any more meaningful content.... pvp at least keeps me interested for a bit.
Correctly: If old school games were more popular, they could be considered better games.
They were not better.
By that "logic" (quotes intended), McDonalds makes the best damn burgers in the world!
What a crock thinking "popular" means "great" or even "good."
By the way, did you know old school MMORPGs were popular in their day? Hundreds of thousands of players played them.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Currently playing ESO so I will use it as an example.
Hit Dungeon Queue button Teleport to random dungeon with 1-3 random players Champion Point 1000 Players run through dungeon destroying everything in their path. Get loot Get 100k XP for finishing random dungeon with random players Never a word of communication was exchanged between the players.
Progress?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
By that "logic" (quotes intended), McDonalds makes the best damn burgers in the world!
...
By the way, did you know old school MMORPGs were popular in their day? Hundreds of thousands of players played them.
And indeed they do.
Do you know where those hundreds of thousands of players go? They were popular until something better came out, thus point in case they were not better.
If they were, MMO design would take vastly different path.
Currently playing ESO so I will use it as an example.
Hit Dungeon Queue button Teleport to random dungeon with 1-3 random players Champion Point 1000 Players run through dungeon destroying everything in their path. Get loot Get 100k XP for finishing random dungeon with random players Never a word of communication was exchanged between the players.
Progress?
That describes random pick-up group dungeon runs as they have existed for more than 10 years in any game with LFG tools and extra rewards for daily randoms. Because of those daily rewards a lot of players treat it like a chore they want to get off their to-do list as quickly as humanly possible and why you see the high CP, geared to teeth DPS charge ahead and skip bosses.
Totally different experience in ESO or any other modern MMO when you do the same but in a guild run using voice chat or when it's 4 low level players new to that dungeon.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Old MMORPGs weren't better, but they had some good designs and features. We're not seeing those implemented to the same effect in modern games. I think a lot of the appeal had to do with the social (internet) and technological dynamic at the time and that can't be replicated. Those early designs promoted revenue generation via grind. Those have evolved to have an even greater focus on making money through diverse streams (sub, cash shop, RMT currencies, etc).
Classic MMOs are in an impossible position. Any change or content update transforms the game into something new. It stops being "vanilla" or classic. So does a game stay static and dead and vanilla forever and never change or does it add content and evolve as a "living" system? You can't have both. Is a new MMO supposed to stay vanilla or add content? Every update will disenfranchise a portion of players.
The best solution in my opinion is to design an MMO for a shorter lifespan scope and build the entire progression and narrative around that, then stop. Just stop bolting additional crap onto it to try as an artificial life support strategy.
For example Pantheon would have a 5 year content window. They would design the progression curve around that to be 'capped' out at the 5 year mark. No additional level, skills, gear power, or anything like that. That power curve would be broken up over the 5 years and released with expansions. The story and power curve would conclude at the end of 5 years. The servers would stay open, but the game world wouldn't keep getting content and l
Indefinite or infinite progression is a lie. An unending narrative is a lie. We need to stop trying to make MMO progression and story indefinite, then we could start experimenting with mechanics and difficulty curves and bring real challenge back into the genre.
When an MMO has given me something to do that I truly enjoyed doing I couldn't have given less of a crap about whether they added new content or not. I felt that way about RvR in DAoC and I actually dreaded their expansions because I feared they would eventually change the game too much and screw it up... which they eventually did of course.
Like anyone else I do get bored at some point doing even things I enjoy but expansions and new content patches have never been a factor in whether I stick around or leave.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
By that "logic" (quotes intended), McDonalds makes the best damn burgers in the world!
And indeed they do.
If you were raised on Spam I can see you thinking that but holy shit your taste in burgers sucks. Anyone in NA with a backyard grill can beat McDonald's hamburgers... and then there are the thousands of restaurants that have real burgers and not the generic McShit.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
If you were raised on Spam I can see you thinking that but holy shit your taste in burgers sucks. Anyone in NA with a backyard grill can beat McDonald's hamburgers... and then there are the thousands of restaurants that have real burgers and not the generic McShit.
...and yet, very same people prefer to grab a burger at McDonalds for lunch rather than driving home to their backyard grill to make burgers that supposedly beat MC burgers.
I think I missed the old school bandwagon, WoTLK/LOTRO being when I started. I'm done with WoW until WoTLK classic servers, and still playing LOTRO until I'm bored and will sink my teeth into ESO.
There's so much to play right now in other genres, that I'll keep to LOTRO/ESO until something new comes along.
If you were raised on Spam I can see you thinking that but holy shit your taste in burgers sucks. Anyone in NA with a backyard grill can beat McDonald's hamburgers... and then there are the thousands of restaurants that have real burgers and not the generic McShit.
...and yet, very same people prefer to grab a burger at McDonalds for lunch rather than driving home to their backyard grill to make burgers that supposedly beat MC burgers.
Apparently, they don't beat them.
Once again you're confusing popularity because of convenience with best... par for the course for you.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Comments
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/For me, I stopped playing FFXI which was the first MMO I played for an extended period because they went totally whacko with Abyssea and just threw the baby out with the bath water.
After that, I figured I would look at more modern games. After all, If my favorite game is down the toilet I might as well find something shiny and new to enjoy if I have to find a replacement.
Graphics and a lot to immersion. Yeah they will never be as good as what I saw in my mind as kid reading books and playing rpgs. They should do their best to represent though.
SWG is dead, they fucked that game up with Jedi. After the Jedi came out and everyone was grinding for a Jedi the game sucked. Then they did the CU update which screwed shit more. Even the private servers are dead, yea 2000 people online at one time great but there is not enough people overall to sustain a server.
FFXI - Not the same game it was Pre-WOW when you had to have a group all the time to level.
This is why I have hope for classic WOW, UO, Ashes and Pantheon.
The question targets people like myself who always talk up Daoc and other old school games but don't play them anymore. The obvious question is well if they were so great, why aren't you still playing them? I didn't know how to answer and wondered how others in the same position addressed the same question. Nothing more or less than that.
Go back to Phoenix DAoC, then compare that to things like WoW's UI today: delivering feedback to the player quickly, accurately, and easily is a paramount design goal. It can go too far of course, but in general, players being able to grasp the underlying mechanics determining the end result of their efforts is generally considered a pro.
Graphics are another, as is bandwagoning and social proof. Marketing dollars also differ highly, which likely contributes as much as any other individual factor.
Correctly:
If old school games were more popular, they could be considered better games.
They were not better.
Several reasons to stop playing...
1. Too many people stopped playing so the games had to cater to smaller populations.
2. Content still pushed out making old content pointless. (I think this is why fresh start and classic servers do well--- gives people a clean slate to start at the same level as everyone else and they can end when they did all they wanted or... when everyone else does.
3. Time. When I was 9-15 I could sit on EQ leveling up in basically a giant chat room video game. Can't really do that with a job/family/other hobbies.
I do still play EQ emu, but I can start and stop without getting too far behind since content is not pushed out as frequently and most servers do not use all the content that is readily available. But on the downside, doing the same content over and over does get boring, so I take frequent breaks.
Modern MMO's I tend to lean more towards PvP since people beat the content of the game in no time and the devs abandon the games before coming out with any more meaningful content.... pvp at least keeps me interested for a bit.
What a crock thinking "popular" means "great" or even "good."
By the way, did you know old school MMORPGs were popular in their day? Hundreds of thousands of players played them.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Hit Dungeon Queue button
Teleport to random dungeon with 1-3 random players
Champion Point 1000 Players run through dungeon destroying everything in their path.
Get loot
Get 100k XP for finishing random dungeon with random players
Never a word of communication was exchanged between the players.
Progress?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Do you know where those hundreds of thousands of players go? They were popular until something better came out, thus point in case they were not better.
If they were, MMO design would take vastly different path.
Totally different experience in ESO or any other modern MMO when you do the same but in a guild run using voice chat or when it's 4 low level players new to that dungeon.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Like anyone else I do get bored at some point doing even things I enjoy but expansions and new content patches have never been a factor in whether I stick around or leave.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Apparently, they don't beat them.
There's so much to play right now in other genres, that I'll keep to LOTRO/ESO until something new comes along.
Gut Out!
What, me worry?
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
It is rather simple.
A customer has a choice between McDonald burger and home made burger.
Customers chose McDonald. Period.
It is customers who decide what products are better, not you and your arbitrary qualifiers.