SBS claims to be cooperating with State and Federal Law Enforcement due to threats

Slapshot1188 · August 2019

This was just part of a forum post from their community manager (emphasis is mine):

Unfortunately, Caspian is one of the developers on our team that has been receiving inappropriate messages from community members, including messages that border on death threats. That sort of hostility has a real human impact, and it makes it difficult to maintain a healthy dialogue with the community. It also contributes to situations like the one you’re describing, because it’s hard to be at our best when we’re trying to figure out how to react to these things.

For all our community members that are reading this, we ask that you to take a moment to consider the impact of such events. Most of us generally don’t go to work expecting people to tell us “we should kill ourselves”. When this happens – especially in a climate where violence and harassment are a frequent occurrence – it becomes difficult to brush this off and go on being productive. We hope our entire community would join us in saying that aggressive or threatening communication isn’t the kind of norm we should be accepting. We’ve taken steps to manage such events going forward, including cooperating with State and Federal Law Enforcement in reporting and investigating threats of violence, as well as limiting communication with affected team members in any such incident.

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I would be interested in knowing the actual details of this. There is absolutely no room for death threats or threats of violence of any kind but I would be interested in seeing the actual State and Federal complaints (if they actually exist).

jahlon · August 2019

Wow....

That's over the top.

Next thing you know people will be doing real world background checks on them to get information. Its a fucked up world man.

KnightFalz · August 2019

Messages that border on death threats....

It depends on how large those borders were as to the genuine severity of the situation. The details would be needed to establish that.

bcbully · August 2019

I’m not saying any names, but if they were offering a reward for tips. There’s a certain poster on these forums I drop a dime on

Slapshot1188 · August 2019

bcbully said:

I’m not saying any names, but if they were offering a reward for tips. There’s a certain poster on these forums I drop a dime on

Please do name names... anyone who makes death threats or threats of physical violence has gone far beyond the line. Same as people who would DDOS a server. If you actually know of such instances you should speak up and take action.

RenGinGin · August 2019

Aren't things like this public record? If you knew where to look, you could identify what the complaint was about, right? Since it at a State and Federal level.

Does anyone know anything more?

Utinni · August 2019

Damn. I don't even know that this game had launched and here people are giving death threats. Must be a pretty hardcore fanbase.

DerryFH · August 2019

Rhoklaw said:

Does this mean the game is going to be delayed?

Not delayed .. cancelled .. not because of lack of any progress, funds gone and so, but because studio cares about safety of their employees (the right thing to do) and cannot ask them to work in a situation when their life is endangered.

NorseGod · August 2019

So...

What did that dev say to prompt these "threats"?

Hatefull · August 2019

bcbully said:

I’m not saying any names, but if they were offering a reward for tips. There’s a certain poster on these forums I drop a dime on

Shhhhhhh

Marcus323 · August 2019

Caspian mentioned the threats once in discord when he was being roasted for his handling of DSS and the delays. However, knowing Caspian these accusations are all made up and he is just seeking pity, as usual, from the knights who defend him from the big meanies who expect him to deliver something he promised and they paid thousands to experience. He is not CEO material. My CEO gets death threats right before every shareholder meeting. He requires police escorts to those meetings, but he doesn't cry about it.

In case any of you haven't noticed Caspian is a skilled victim.

TiamatRoar · August 2019

It's sad that death threats are normal for the gaming industry. But.... well, they are.

When people say "Gaming communities are toxic", they really aren't exaggerating. Of course, some members of those "communities" are more toxic than others but it still shouldn't be surprising in this day and age that having at least several that are THIS toxic is to be expected, sadly.

Of course, the world would be a better place if we could get rid of them somehow. They need to calm down.

Ltldogg · August 2019

I need more details to make an informed opinion. I know that some individuals are certainly capable of sending inappropriate messages, but I also know that some professionals are capable of lying and playing the part of the victim as a cover for work performance/product.

Both could be the case here, but so far I've only seen one forum post which is hearsay at this point. Regardless, either behavior is unacceptable and hopefully the truth will lead to proper action.

Mendel · August 2019

Death threats have no place in business. I do not believe that Caspian needs or deserves this kind of treatment from anyone.

However, I do wonder about this action. SBS announces the threat and the cooperation with state and federal authorities. What is the purpose of announcing that? An announcement that the law is involved would more likely hamper any investigation by causing whomever is sending these threats to desist. This action seem contrary to efforts to identify and catch the perpetrator.

Caspian hasn't shown himself to be above histrionic behavior before. I'd love to see these threats to determine that this isn't another case of childish behavior. We've seen "I'm taking my toys and going home", let's hope this isn't a case of "they're picking on me". Death threats are serious business, as well as reporting death threats to the authorities.

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DerryFH said:

Rhoklaw said:

Does this mean the game is going to be delayed?

Not delayed .. cancelled .. not because of lack of any progress, funds gone and so, but because studio cares about safety of their employees (the right thing to do) and cannot ask them to work in a situation when their life is endangered.

I think @DerryFH may have hit upon a possible exit strategy. I'd hate to see it come to that. Even though I've been a critic of this development project and wouldn't want to play this myself, the loss of any game remotely akin to an MMORPG for any reason is detrimental to the genre, and possibly the industry itself.

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Basic rule of thumb. Don't tell the bad guy "the police are tracing this call". Such activity will hurt any chance of finding the perpetrator of this criminal activity. Even Hollywood knows this.

Slapshot1188 · August 2019

Mendel said:

Death threats have no place in business. I do not believe that Caspian needs or deserves this kind of treatment from anyone.

However, I do wonder about this action. SBS announces the threat and the cooperation with state and federal authorities. What is the purpose of announcing that? An announcement that the law is involved would more likely hamper any investigation by causing whomever is sending these threats to desist. This action seem contrary to efforts to identify and catch the perpetrator.

Caspian hasn't shown himself to be above histrionic behavior before. I'd love to see these threats to determine that this isn't another case of childish behavior. We've seen "I'm taking my toys and going home", let's hope this isn't a case of "they're picking on me". Death threats are serious business, as well as reporting death threats to the authorities.

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DerryFH said:

Rhoklaw said:

Does this mean the game is going to be delayed?

Not delayed .. cancelled .. not because of lack of any progress, funds gone and so, but because studio cares about safety of their employees (the right thing to do) and cannot ask them to work in a situation when their life is endangered.

I think @DerryFH may have hit upon a possible exit strategy. I'd hate to see it come to that. Even though I've been a critic of this development project and wouldn't want to play this myself, the loss of any game remotely akin to an MMORPG for any reason is detrimental to the genre, and possibly the industry itself.

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Basic rule of thumb. Don't tell the bad guy "the police are tracing this call". Such activity will hurt any chance of finding the perpetrator of this criminal activity. Even Hollywood knows this.

That's kind of my take. Note that he posted "bordering on death threats". That's why I would love to see the actual "State and Federal" complaints... if they exist. I do not doubt that some customers that put in thousands (or tens of thousands) of dollars for a game that was advertised as having a full launch in Dec 17 send him some not so nice messages. But that is part of what happens when you take close to 6.5 million dollars from people and are over a year and a half late with very little to show for it and say NO REFUNDS. But there is a massive difference between mean messages and death threats. And IF there were actual threats of violence then those people should be prosecuted. I am just very doubtful that it happened.

Amathe · August 2019

We hope our entire community would join us in saying that aggressive or threatening communication isn’t the kind of norm we should be accepting.

This seems odd. It's not an issue that is up to the community to decide.

I'm certainly opposed to threats of violence, but the manner of the announcement seems more about getting people riled up than calming them down.

some-clueless-guy · August 2019

Am I reding too much between the lines, or is that post from SBS suggesting that "go kill yourself" is now to be considered a death threat?

SpottyGekko · August 2019

So this is why things are moving so slowly at SBS ? The team are so stressed-out by these almost death threats and continual DDOS attacks that they can't get anything done...

foppotee · August 2019

Nowadays, sadly these types of threats should be taken seriously. Even if it is a really low statistic that a threat will be followed-up on that could be someone's life!

Kyleran · August 2019

some-clueless-guy said:

Am I reding too much between the lines, or is that post from SBS suggesting that "go kill yourself" is now to be considered a death threat?

Probably along with DIAF.

lahnmir · August 2019

Almost death threats should be taken very seriously, just like almost developers and almost games.

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

Vrika · August 2019

some-clueless-guy said:

Am I reding too much between the lines, or is that post from SBS suggesting that "go kill yourself" is now to be considered a death threat?

It's not a death threat. A death threat is a plausible threat that you'd kill someone or cause his death.

Telling someone to go kill himself isn't legal, but it's just an insult.

Amathe · August 2019

If Caspian were to respond by saying "I'm rubber, you're glue, whatever bounces off of me sticks to you," would he be guilty of making a counter borderline threat?

Nubz_Unite · August 2019

It's a shame that the integrity of SBS has been so undermined due to Caspian's actions that we are left here questioning the legitimacy of death threats against Caspian. I was too lazy to quote but to address @Mendel thoughts. Personally I have never seen a news article announcing that there has ever been a conviction regarding someone sending death threats to a game studio mostly because it's sent through anonymous accounts like twitter, discord or forum alias. It's not easy to put an actual person to that. In some cases getting the people to desist or deter others from making death threats is a easier and more effective way of trying to deal with them then relying on law enforcement.

Torrsk · August 2019

Caspian brings this up a lot. I have seen him speak about this topic, many times over the past few months. I keep doubting him the more he talks about it, for some reason.

It is true, at one point you could DM him on discord. That has been turned off for awhile. No idea if those that did talk to him/send him a message. If there is a loophole where people can send him a message, if they did before he turned that feature off. Seems like a loophole that discord needs to fix, if true.

At this rate, it feels like an excuse to why things aren't going smoothly. Almost like he is honestly that stressed out by the whole thing. Which could be true for all I know. Yet if that was true, he shouldn't go onto discord again. Not able to emotionally deal with it.

While if it's all true. People sinking to that level, they need to be dealt with. I can only assume they are doing it on alt accounts. So can't just simply ban them, well their game accounts. Yet realistic, no one but hardcore fans would have sent him a message years back anyway.

I don't know, maybe I'm reading into the whole thing too much. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

Mendel · August 2019

Nubz_Unite said:

It's a shame that the integrity of SBS has been so undermined due to Caspian's actions that we are left here questioning the legitimacy of death threats against Caspian. I was too lazy to quote but to address @Mendel thoughts. Personally I have never seen a news article announcing that there has ever been a conviction regarding someone sending death threats to a game studio mostly because it's sent through anonymous accounts like twitter, discord or forum alias. It's not easy to put an actual person to that. In some cases getting the people to desist or deter others from making death threats is a easier and more effective way of trying to deal with them then relying on law enforcement.

I agree. Simply telling people to "stop" usually works.

However, law enforcement is already involved, according to the SBS posts. The feds are trying to find and track the parties responsible, that's their job. They have tools to track an active connection, I'd imagine. Connections are usually transient, posts and emails are permanent. If they identify the person behind this threat, then they can develop a legal case against that person.

Saying "stop" at this time isn't helping the feds; the investigation's success may be entirely dependent on a subsequent threat that they can actively monitor.

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SBS claims to be cooperating with State and Federal Law Enforcement due to threats

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SBS claims to be cooperating with State and Federal Law Enforcement due to threats

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Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV