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Subscription only MMOs are pay to win and its good they mostly died out

BaalzharonBaalzharon Member RarePosts: 514
in The Pub at MMORPG.COM
People complain of BDO pay to win. Except you can play 100% free (well you had to buy it, but no forced sub) and buy most stuff on marketplace

FFXIV? WoW? Both pay to win MMOs as two easy examples. In fact the only way to get the best gear or items is paying every month. You can't even begin to start winning without paying, and when you do pay it can take weeks or even months to get ahead or in WoW classic it took 1+ year

That is the ultimate pay to win. Not only can you not even start to win without paying, you just can't do anything without paying. Often having to buy a 40-60 USD box price+buy the expansions. BDO? Pay optional besides the very cheap entry price and never worry again. Same with many other buy to play/f2p MMOs. 

Its good the genre changed to be less pay to win and forcing the player to pay an obscene amount to play. BDO should however be 100% free, but its only 1 dollar or I saw it for 50 cents during black friday, literally on the cheapest sales if you get it from off-steam and the "shady" sites. pretty much free at that point.

But still, GW2 got rid of its forced entry price and much better. GW2 dont have to pay anything not even latest expansion cause can earn money in game and then buy it with game money through gems (which I did for path of fire).

These last hold out of pay to win sub MMOs are dying and its good, cause they are the ultimate example of pay to win.


acidbloodJakikMaurgrimparpinPsYcHoGBRsardaukar101MartianderRhiow-DarksteprpmcmurphyMarcus-and 47 others.
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Comments

  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 8,164
    Ahh a false premise not worth arguing over.
    zeroscloudPhaserlightMaddog666KyleranMyrdynn[Deleted User]XarkocheyaneKidRiskHatefull

  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,973
    Pay to win is a comparison to others who are playing the same game with you.
    angerbeaver
     
  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,617
    I find it mostly a subjective question which varies person to person and game to game.

    There are F2P games where I shell out 1000$/year, and there are F2P games where I spend 20$/year.

    needless for me to say I hope that game where I pay 1000$/year is subscription base, but I'm happy with the game I spend 20$/year being free to play.
    rpmcmurphy
  • krgwynnekrgwynne Member UncommonPosts: 119
    THIS IS THE DUMBEST POST IV EVER SEEN SUBSCRIPTION TO PLAY IS KING ,ALL THE GAMES WITH MICRO TRANSACTIONS HAVE RUINED THE MMO MARKET BY BEING FREE TO PLAY BUT IF YOU AINT A WHALE YOU WILL SUCK SINCE THEY ARE ALL PAYTOWIN. PRITTY SHORE THIS IS A TROLL POST ANYWAY.
    NL-Rikkertzeroscloud[Deleted User]KyleranXarkoGdemamiAethaerynultimateduckTinkerBellCommandoHatefulland 1 other.
  • acidbloodacidblood Member RarePosts: 878
    edited August 2019
    I won't defend every MMO being worth $15 a month, but I would much rather pay $15 a month and only $15 per month and be on an even playing field with those who put in the same level of effort than have to grind hundreds of hours just to keep up with someone who spends hundreds if not thousands of dollars in the cash shop.

    And as for sub MMOs 'dying'... FFXIV has more subscribers than ever, WoW Classic is highly anticipated, Ashes of Creation (promised to be a sub only MMO) was one of the highest funded kickstarters ever, and the main reason people are leaving WoW (retail) is because Blizzard has been sh*ting the bed for years.
    zeroscloud[Deleted User]Azaron_NightbladeultimateduckTinkerBellCommandoSinsai
  • KeladorKelador Member UncommonPosts: 129
    edited August 2019
    I would rather pay £60 a year subscription to get everything in the game for free and have the same opportunity as others playing that game than play a game that unless I pay thousands of pounds on getting the best micro-transactions I will always be at a disadvantage or miss out.

    Equality thats the main difference between subscription and f2p.
    NL-Rikkert[Deleted User]ultimateduckRueTheWhirl
  • XasapisXasapis Member RarePosts: 6,337
    The ultimate example of an even playing field is pay to win ... somehow.

    BDO, the game where your cash card can buy you top tier gear is somehow ... less pay to win.

    I'll let you in on a big secret OP. BDO needing 200€ per month to stay competitive is a far cry for the 12€ per month you seem unwilling to part with. Then again, you can pay nothing in BDO as you claim and be the fodder for the people that do pay to win.
    KyleranAzaron_NightbladeRhygarthultimateduckHatefull
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
      
                       Dee Dee DEE
    ceratop001Xarko
  • parpinparpin Member UncommonPosts: 220
    ESO business model in my opinion is best, both for developers and players.
    Tiller
  • AhnogAhnog Member UncommonPosts: 240
    The OP doesn't know what pay to win is. A subscription doesn't make it pay to win.

    NL-Rikkertrpmcmurphy[Deleted User]KyleranSteelhelmSirQuesterultimateduckTinkerBellCommandoSinsai

    Ahnog

    Hokey religions are no replacement for a good blaster at your side.

  • DreamionDreamion Member UncommonPosts: 287
    If you would take the majority of MMO's out there and compare them you would quickly see a disgusting pattern where the F2P games usually cater to the whales and there are many.
  • cielyciely Member UncommonPosts: 124
    krgwynne said:
    THIS IS THE DUMBEST POST IV EVER SEEN SUBSCRIPTION TO PLAY IS KING ,ALL THE GAMES WITH MICRO TRANSACTIONS HAVE RUINED THE MMO MARKET BY BEING FREE TO PLAY BUT IF YOU AINT A WHALE YOU WILL SUCK SINCE THEY ARE ALL PAYTOWIN. PRITTY SHORE THIS IS A TROLL POST ANYWAY.
    I CANT LOCATE PRITTY SHORE ON GOOGLE MAP
    Steelhelm
  • NL-RikkertNL-Rikkert Member UncommonPosts: 134
    Not sure if you're an awful troll or completely oblivious..
    Regardless, try opening a dictionary or talking to people who know what they are talking about.

    Even single player games have P2W mechanics nowadays.. 
    Don't understand why you would buy a game and then spend extra money so you can skip playing parts of that game. -_-

    STOOPID
    When someone does something so utterly moronic that it kills your brain cells at the very thought of it.

  • AkulasAkulas Member RarePosts: 3,028
    That's like saying everything is P2W because you have to pay for it.
    rpmcmurphy[Deleted User]Kyleran

    This isn't a signature, you just think it is.

  • XatshXatsh Member RarePosts: 451
    edited August 2019
    Technically the OP is right it is pure 100% p2w, cause if you do not pay you obviously cannot win. Since you cannot even log in.

    But it is also the most fair p2w. Everyone pays equal amount to win. Casuals, Midcores, hardcores, whales all pay the same $0.09-$0.13/hr to play the game. Your Strength is based on your dedication to the game and hours spent. Not Cash imputed.

    Much better then other games where you are expected to pay between $1.00-$2.50/hr to stay competitive. Yes to be competitive in a f2p game you will spend 10-20xs as much as a p2p game depending on the game... Archeage probably being the biggest culprit of ungodly amounts of p2w.

    B2P is not as bad, and honestly I will say GW2 model is not that bad. Still not a fan of any cashshops though and B2P games will need 1 for financial support.

    My anger is that P2P games are also having cashshop now. My sub is already paying for development... why am I paying for what I already damn paid for in the first place. Like paying extra for the meat patty in a hamburger. That is a big nono and a black mark on FFXIV and WoW... More so WoW then FFXIV since you can directly convert RL money into Game Money with their system through WoW Tokens.
  • kaeoltaekaeoltae Member UncommonPosts: 18
    edited August 2019
    Well the problem I have is  WTF is  "WIN" ???? there is nothing to win so how can it be a p2w???
    it is a pay to play  there is nothing to win......

    SirQuester
  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,502
    And every expansion that developers sell is also P2W right???????


    Come on....
  • DafAtRandomDafAtRandom Member UncommonPosts: 127
    Guess I just arrived at the bridge.
  • koboldfodderkoboldfodder Member UncommonPosts: 447
    Like the early console wars of the 1980s, there are too many games and not enough players.  If you look at all the MMOs you could play, of course there are no subscriptions.  You would easily be spending thousands of dollars buying these games, let alone paying a monthly fee.  They have to make their game a F2P game.

    There are very few instances where things were "better in the past".  But MMO gaming was one of them.  If you played those early subscription games that existed before WOW, you know exactly what I mean.

    Sorry, those days are over and you are stuck with whatever they are trying to shovel down your browser.  So for people who played and remembered those games, we can sit back and have a good chuckle at posts like these.
  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 3,075
    "Subscription only MMOs are pay to win"

    https://imgur.com/a/3RSbubi (Montoya.jpg)

    I'm not going to waste too much effort on this, but consider the following thought experiment: in a subscription only MMO, is it possible to gain advantages over other players by additional expenditures of cash?

    Short answer: no.  Subscription MMOs, as much as subscriptions kind of suck, tend to be very flat in terms of power curves versus expenditures of real-world currency.

    "The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance

  • ThaneThane Member EpicPosts: 3,534
    edited August 2019
    People complain of BDO pay to win. Except you can play 100% free (well you had to buy it, but no forced sub) and buy most stuff on marketplace

    FFXIV? WoW? Both pay to win MMOs as two easy examples. In fact the only way to get the best gear or items is paying every month. You can't even begin to start winning without paying, and when you do pay it can take weeks or even months to get ahead or in WoW classic it took 1+ year

    That is the ultimate pay to win. Not only can you not even start to win without paying, you just can't do anything without paying. Often having to buy a 40-60 USD box price+buy the expansions. BDO? Pay optional besides the very cheap entry price and never worry again. Same with many other buy to play/f2p MMOs. 

    Its good the genre changed to be less pay to win and forcing the player to pay an obscene amount to play. BDO should however be 100% free, but its only 1 dollar or I saw it for 50 cents during black friday, literally on the cheapest sales if you get it from off-steam and the "shady" sites. pretty much free at that point.

    But still, GW2 got rid of its forced entry price and much better. GW2 dont have to pay anything not even latest expansion cause can earn money in game and then buy it with game money through gems (which I did for path of fire).

    These last hold out of pay to win sub MMOs are dying and its good, cause they are the ultimate example of pay to win.


    you obviously have NO idea what pay 2 win means ^^

    either that, or you are simply trolling. pay 2 play != pay 2 win

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 3,075
    Xatsh said:
    Technically the OP is right it is pure 100% p2w, cause if you do not pay you obviously cannot win. Since you cannot even log in.
    No.  You cannot lose, either, if you choose not to play.  This is absurd.
    SteelhelmXarkorojoArcueid

    "The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance

  • JudgeUKJudgeUK Member RarePosts: 1,696
    edited August 2019
    OP you are confusing ptw with pay to play. The subscription model allows you to play, that is all.
    Whether you win or lose is then down to your ability.
    PhaserlightSandmanjwSirQuester
  • some-clueless-guysome-clueless-guy Member UncommonPosts: 227
    When the WTF reaction is not enough...
    ScorchienPhaserlightIselin[Deleted User]Xarko
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    edited August 2019
    Xatsh said:
    Technically the OP is right it is pure 100% p2w, cause if you do not pay you obviously cannot win. Since you cannot even log in.
    No.  You cannot lose, either, if you choose not to play.  This is absurd.
    The obvious they are also missing is that with sub model everyone pays equal and on a level playing field ..

    pure P2W games the field gets lopsided rather fast
    Post edited by Scorchien on
    Phaserlight
This discussion has been closed.