It's OK to destroy your enemies, just don't tell them in advance

Kyleran · September 2019

So apparently the recent flurry of posts in the COE forums by various "nobles" threatening random Counts who might knowingly or unknowingly select a territory without permission are against the new, previously never mentioned "house rules" against threatening backers outside of the game with what you will do to them in game.

Its OK to kill them in game, just don't threaten them in advance that you plan to do so if they piss you off. Weird.

Caspian revealed these new rules on Saturday afternoon kicking off a furious debate.

Caspian wrote:

Hey All,

Just a couple friendly reminders:

There's no such thing as in-game mechanics to prevent out-of-game bullying. That's something that is dealt with using a Terms of Service and Code of Conduct. But we do have out-of-game mechanics to deal with those problems, and the moderators and admins can use them if necessary to protect the safety and well-being of our players.
We created two sets of rules, the aforementioned CoC and ToS, as well as the mechanics of D&SS. The mechanics of D&SS say that 50% of the domains can be reserved by nobility to help preserve the community-building they've done thus far and 50% of the domains will be filled by anyone and everyone who wants to be in that domain. Those are the rules.

To reference what Vye said in her blog post, showing up to a game of Texas Hold'em with cards in hand isn't "playing the game the way you want to play it," that's just called cheating. In any game of Texas Hold'em you're expected to leverage the private cards you were given and make the best of the community cards available, or don't play the game.

Additionally, if you were invited over by a friend to play a competitive board game and you started growling at people, glaring at them, or using "out-of-game" methods of intimidation in order to discourage certain behavior, you didn't break any rules of the game, but you might have broken the rules of the house.It would be completely within the rights of the friend that invited you, or the owner, to say "Yo, you need to treat people better if you want to play with us, no more of that stuff."

Chronicles of Elyria, like any game, has its rules and mechanics, as does Domain & Settlement Selection, but those are not the only rules that apply. We have our house rules as well, and everyone is expected to follow them.

And in case there's any question, threatening, intimidating, or harassing other players, or in any way communicating that you intend to make their play experience poorer as a result of their D&SS pick is not the Dance of Dynasties. That's simply bullying and is viewed as a violation of our ToS and CoC.

Note: Nowhere have I said that people cannot use the in-game mechanics to try and force people out of their domain, only that everyone needs to be free to make their picks without hostile intervention.

The drama just keeps getting better and better, too bad the same can't be said for the actual game.

https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/32926/the-dance-of-domains?page=4#46

bcbully · September 2019

If they are able to make it they win. Period.

Galadourn · September 2019

Very interesting, I wonder to what other extremes CoE will go in order to hide the fact that there is no game coming anytime soon...

Slapshot1188 · September 2019

I think it's interesting that they publicize and send out PR about how a few Dukes decided to split from the King and revolt, obviously, all stuff decided on forums out of character. Ruining the plans for people that signed up for the Kingdom, yet they object to other Dukes and Counts saying that if unknown people claim land in their territory they will attack them. That's not allowed and is considered out of game bullying. His word.... bullying. In a PvP game... about territory control.

Crazy...

OrangeBoy · September 2019

They should be able to do whatever they want to the people in their land, as per their King title and the understanding of the risks of selecting a town at random without consulting with the King/Queen.

These kings posting "let me know or I'll run your shit" is kinda stupid, like why on earth would you even say that, it's such a bad rep on your Kingdom. Neckbeard Adam has made it clear SbS either shut the fuck up or ban him and everyone else. LOL.

But the fact SbS made it clear that they look forward to drama and "story" and are now restricting something that was completely valid and was never forbidden is sort of stupid and shows how the premise of the game is slowly falling apart from it's "tough luck" banner.

Xanzo · September 2019

Don't tell your enemy your're about to kill them before you kill them. Lipstick Taser!

Torrsk · September 2019

The problem with all this is, some counts have got DMs from dukes personally threatening them. There is a dude within that thread claiming that. So while giving a general message saying they will fuck up randoms is one thing. Taking it to backdoor channels to basically bully someone from even thinking about picking there, that's another ball game to me.

Of course this is all a pointless post anyway. SBS has stated they refuse to do anything about someone, if it's said through DM/another discord. So as long as you threat them, out of the public view. No one cares.

While as someone pointed out in that thread. This has nothing to do with bullying. It has to do with people feeling they can't give more money. If someone doesn't know the community they landed in, plan to destroy them come launch. They will naturally give money. While if they do know it, who would honestly spend anything else?

Vornair coming out making that threat is beyond pointless anyway. Every kingdom/community I have been apart of, plans to kill randoms. Not everyone within those communities, but enough that it's going to happen anyway.

Vornair just like showing off. Like how they have around 30 capitals in a biome that can't support them in the first place.

AnOldFart · September 2019

Torrsk said:

The problem with all this is, some counts have got DMs from dukes personally threatening them. There is a dude within that thread claiming that. So while giving a general message saying they will fuck up randoms is one thing. Taking it to backdoor channels to basically bully someone from even thinking about picking there, that's another ball game to me.

Of course this is all a pointless post anyway. SBS has stated they refuse to do anything about someone, if it's said through DM/another discord. So as long as you threat them, out of the public view. No one cares.

While as someone pointed out in that thread. This has nothing to do with bullying. It has to do with people feeling they can't give more money. If someone doesn't know the community they landed in, plan to destroy them come launch. They will naturally give money. While if they do know it, who would honestly spend anything else?

Vornair coming out making that threat is beyond pointless anyway. Every kingdom/community I have been apart of, plans to kill randoms. Not everyone within those communities, but enough that it's going to happen anyway.

Vornair just like showing off. Like how they have around 30 capitals in a biome that can't support them in the first place.

Whilst I have seen this happen in many areas.

In my duchy we have all agreed in out first choices and won't take them from each other, if our choice is taken by a random we have all agreed to find a 2nd choice from the spare duchies.
We will then welcome the randoms into the fold to work for the betterment of the duchy.

Problem with this game is too many entitled people buying too much

bcbully · September 2019

AnOldFart said:

Torrsk said:

The problem with all this is, some counts have got DMs from dukes personally threatening them. There is a dude within that thread claiming that. So while giving a general message saying they will fuck up randoms is one thing. Taking it to backdoor channels to basically bully someone from even thinking about picking there, that's another ball game to me.

Of course this is all a pointless post anyway. SBS has stated they refuse to do anything about someone, if it's said through DM/another discord. So as long as you threat them, out of the public view. No one cares.

While as someone pointed out in that thread. This has nothing to do with bullying. It has to do with people feeling they can't give more money. If someone doesn't know the community they landed in, plan to destroy them come launch. They will naturally give money. While if they do know it, who would honestly spend anything else?

Vornair coming out making that threat is beyond pointless anyway. Every kingdom/community I have been apart of, plans to kill randoms. Not everyone within those communities, but enough that it's going to happen anyway.

Vornair just like showing off. Like how they have around 30 capitals in a biome that can't support them in the first place.

Whilst I have seen this happen in many areas.

In my duchy we have all agreed in out first choices and won't take them from each other, if our choice is taken by a random we have all agreed to find a 2nd choice from the spare duchies.
We will then welcome the randoms into the fold to work for the betterment of the duchy.

Problem with this game is too many entitled people buying too much

Kill them until they fold.

TiamatRoar · September 2019

Caspien's just too cheap to hire grief counselors for these people that got pre-emptively destroyed.

anemo · September 2019

If a count realizes that their land is “doomed” anyways, no point in tossing more money at it. Makes good finical sense.

Kyleran · September 2019

anemo said:

If a count realizes that their land is “doomed” anyways, no point in tossing more money at it. Makes good finical sense.

For the developers, absolutely, for the hapless fleecee....er player not so much.

Slapshot1188 · September 2019

As the “threatening” posts are still up as of yesterday I assume this is all just another case of hot wind by Caspien. He in my opinion, lacks the fortitude to actually take on a big backer like the “King” of Vornair. Even when Adam and the other “King” Detherus went on a live steam and essentially (and in some cases literally) called Caspien and his Serpentus liars, shady, untrustworthy, etc... Caspien seemed to just put his head in the sand and hoped it went away.

Same here. He made a single post and then ignored all the questions about it and never actioned the actually threatening posts. Before you know it, DSS will be over, he will have raked in hundreds of thousands of dollars, moved on to his next sale, and all will be forgotten until these folks get destroyed when(if) the game releases.

Kyleran · September 2019

Well, it will present a great cash shop opportunity, players can buy themselves protection from attacks from allies or something.

Caspian is resourceful, he will find a way to monetize it, I'm sure of it.

Hashbrick · September 2019

This guys "ego" will kill the game. If he thinks he should have anything to do with the outside world he's a fuckin idiot and he will destroy all the pillars around him doing so. Social media will destroy him and the remnant of his little "amazing vision" will fade out.

FlyByKnight · September 2019

Can't they just have an announcement board or some kind of "here ye" town cryer or messenger mechanic that doesn't break immersion? This will allow players to make a decry without overstepping boundaries.

Iselin · September 2019

TiamatRoar said:

Caspien's just too cheap to hire grief counselors for these people that got pre-emptively destroyed.

You probably just gave him an idea for something else he can sell right now before there's a game.

TiamatRoar · September 2019

Kyleran said:

Well, it will present a great cash shop opportunity, players can buy themselves protection from attacks from allies or something.

Caspian is resourceful, he will find a way to monetize it, I'm sure of it.

....you know, I totally forgot that every mobile city-building game (which is probably the closest analogue to how politics etc are supposed to work out in CoE, even if the gameplay will be different) has a "feature" like that.

That'd be pretty hilarious if various countries were polluted with unattackable territories owned by players constantly putting cash shop shields up.

It's not really something new either (again, EVERY mobile city-building game with warefare in it has it). Caspien might as well go full-hog and sell things like resource packs and hourglasses that speed up building and production too while he's at it. And teleportion items (for both players/troops and for cities like many mobile games do)

Sure, he'd probably be breaking a hundred promises or so if he did that, but eh, that's nothing new too.

Amathe · September 2019

"But we do have out-of-game mechanics to deal with those problems, and the moderators and admins can use them if necessary to protect the safety and well-being of our players."

What an odd statement.

If a prospective player's safety is at risk (as in physical harm), the remedy for that is law enforcement (assuming you can get them to take the threat seriously). But I don't think anyone is claiming that something that serious has happened. So, once again, this game creates dramatic mountains out of pitiful little mole hills.

Well being? Some mod is going to use out of game mechanics to enforce "well being"? This has a decidedly Barney Fife ring to it.

Iselin · September 2019

Torval said:

Iselin said:

TiamatRoar said:

Caspien's just too cheap to hire grief counselors for these people that got pre-emptively destroyed.

You probably just gave him an idea for something else he can sell right now before there's a game.

He should have sold $7 refrigerators like Bethesda. Word is those are big with the hapless fleecees (or is that feces). Have you ever noticed how some of the biggest critics of some games are also the biggest knob gobblers and shills for others?

Not speaking of you specifically, but seeing your comment here reminded of the virtue signalling in the Bethesda thread. I've seen the flip-flop a lot lately in various threads. It's funny.

Well my conscience is clear: I hate all of this shit equally. Although I have to say I do give the small studios with honest F2P games a bit of a pass because I get it's do or die for them.

Big studios like Bethesda with B2P + MTX can suck it. And so can the vast majority of KS MMO projects like this one that have absolutely no integrity about the game they may eventually put out or they're too stupid to get the harm that tiered perks does to the starting state of their game which ALWAYS should start with as even a playing field as possible.

It's why I've never backed any of them. I could afford some of their upper tiers and set myself up to start with special status or advantage but what's the fucking point? That in and of itself is shit game design.

To paraphrase Groucho, I'd never play a game that would have me as a Count

JeffSpicoli · September 2019

I don't know what the heck this game is or what the heck this post is about but i think i need this Online MMO drama in my boring life. What game is this ?

Mendel · September 2019

Iselin said:

Torval said:

Iselin said:

TiamatRoar said:

Caspien's just too cheap to hire grief counselors for these people that got pre-emptively destroyed.

You probably just gave him an idea for something else he can sell right now before there's a game.

He should have sold $7 refrigerators like Bethesda. Word is those are big with the hapless fleecees (or is that feces). Have you ever noticed how some of the biggest critics of some games are also the biggest knob gobblers and shills for others?

Not speaking of you specifically, but seeing your comment here reminded of the virtue signalling in the Bethesda thread. I've seen the flip-flop a lot lately in various threads. It's funny.

Well my conscience is clear: I hate all of this shit equally. Although I have to say I do give the small studios with honest F2P games a bit of a pass because I get it's do or die for them.

Big studios like Bethesda with B2P + MTX can suck it. And so can the vast majority of KS MMO projects like this one that have absolutely no integrity about the game they may eventually put out or they're too stupid to get the harm that tiered perks does to the starting state of their game which ALWAYS should start with as even a playing field as possible.

It's why I've never backed any of them. I could afford some of their upper tiers and set myself up to start with special status or advantage but what's the fucking point? That in and of itself is shit game design.

To paraphrase Groucho, I'd never play a game that would have me as a Count

Is there such a thing as an inappropriate Groucho quote?

The whole "buy your way to the top" thing that COE uses is completely baffling to me. What happened to "earn your way"? But, SBS is committed to the purchase route.

Really, how different would this game be for all players to start at the same level, say an unlanded knight, with titles and lands to be conquered along the way once you depose the NPC owner.

anemo · September 2019

JeffSpicoli said:

I don't know what the heck this game is or what the heck this post is about but i think i need this Online MMO drama in my boring life. What game is this ?

It's like mixing EVE, Screeps, and Star Citizen. But placing it in a feudal world, with a Pitchford like CEO, and a obsessed Discord.

Take a seat and enjoy. I know I have been, even as a non funder. Even if they release as just a graphical MUD I'll probably still buy an account or two if they also release with the character offline programming stuff.

Iselin · September 2019

Mendel said:

Really, how different would this game be for all players to start at the same level, say an unlanded knight, with titles and lands to be conquered along the way once you depose the NPC owner.

That would make it a game worth considering where Counts and Kings would deserve some respect because you know they earned their title.

That Steam review by the disgruntled SotA player (which was deleted but can still be seen on the Wayback Machine) had everything anyone needs to know about how buying your way to the top plays out after an MMO with that shit is released. They're just pathetic shit shows waiting to happen.

Amathe · September 2019

JeffSpicoli said:

I don't know what the heck this game is or what the heck this post is about but i think i need this Online MMO drama in my boring life. What game is this ?

It's not a game yet. It's one allegedly being made that is mostly off the rails. But that won't stop them from selling you things in it.

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