This isn't about politics, it's about another country using their financial influence (by way of their corporations) to silence any sentiments against their government IN OTHER COUNTRIES.
You can do the whole "RULES ARE RULES" thing, but if you're writing off the patterns as merely coincidence you're obtuse as hell.
The only people making this political are the mentally regressed who don't even know WTF to do with themselves because they're ideologically warped to where common sense is in opposition to their views.
Regardless of your political leanings, EXTERNAL INFLUENCE on YOUR COUNTRIES platforms is a BAD THING. It defeats the whole f#$%ing purpose of having a country in the first place. The only people who think that's OK are the ones who need to get Thanos snapped from existence.
Geez man.
Yeah.. because that has never been done by anyone ever before..? Why we expect that China should act different to any other place when it comes to putting pressure on governments... I do not know. Heck financial pressure to "guide" is the bloody home field of the US after all.
No i do not agree with the totalitarian regime or outright xenophobia that China is selling. Yes i agree that the Hong Kong issue need more publicity. But let´s not pretend that what China is doing is something new or exclusive to them.
First, why is your tone insinuating that I think China is the first country to put pressure on other governments?
Lastly, Blizzard, Riot Games, The NBA, originate from where again? In recent history what country has put their foot on American corporations necks to control narrati... wait a minute...
Well... Shall we list the times the US has levied financial restrictions against others as a way to force co-operations...? Anyway why is insinuated that this was news to you is because the language you use indicates that this is something scandalous and uncommon.
I´d guess you are pissed because it is the US that is on the other side of the fence this time...
The rest of the world are pretty used to this type of tactics... mostly from the US.
It is scandalous and uncommon, against PRIVATE citizens, in the United States and other places that aren't even communist. You're the one who keeps up bringing up things the USA has done to GOVERNMENTS like A) Someone has condoned that It's the same thing
Do governments play WoW? Are governments GMs of basketball teams on Twitter? What governments stream titles from Riot games?
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
I got a kick out of this. Calpheon rioters hold up signs with the guild emblem of whatever guild controls the territory. Today it's topical.
You can walk around the Free Hong Kong protest West of the Calpheon bank if you want to show your esupport. Or kill the rioters. Whatever, I'm not your mom. Do what you want.
The player broke the rules. Blizzard enforced the rules. The Internet is making it all about politics, which it is not.
No actually Mike B posted in one of the thread that they are allowed to post articles with politics in them, or of a political bent but we are not allowed to discuss politics
Do you OWN MMORPG.com? If not, live by THEIR rules. You have ZERO freedom of speech by anything here. If they want to shut you up or shut you down, they can.
Either live with it, or take your arrogant "everything is America" mindset to political boards that talk about games. The American Constitution is not written for businesses, or the rest of the world, for that matter.
Drop the attitude and take a chill pill there mate , was just answering the question as explained by MikeB as your explanation had bugger all to do with the why and why not.
Really maybe you can take YOUR anti America prejudice and leave it out of your replies it only makes you look bad. I think this second paragraph just showed your true nature.
For the record I have no problem with mmorpg.com not wanting political discussions on the boards, I do however think it's kind of hypocritical to then allow editorials/articles on it.
Sorry 'bout that overreaction. What the player said was political. What Blizzard did was not. But people can't see past their own agendas to realize that. It matters not if you agree or not with what he said.
Would the outcry be the same if he had said "Kill all gays!"? Blizzard would be heralded as saints, then. And the message again lost: that he broke the rules.
The story is NOT a political one.
I need to leave the thread. I should have stayed out of this one, too
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
To be honest, MMORPG.COM is probably connected to large MMO development companies, hence why they disallow such discussions from happening. Otherwise, why would a private business disallow political discussions which are inherently part of gaming these days? Censorship never makes sense unless "you have a dog in the game".
To be fair, all large forums on the web connected to corporations are like that. I once participated in an online fitness forum, where talking trash about supplements (which were sold on one of their affiliate) got you an immediate ban. They are all hypocritical like that, it's the money talking. Ironic that the private sector can as hard on censorship as a totalitarian state.
As to the Blizzard issue, who is really outraged by this, or surprised? Blizzard is a public company that has been growing its business for about 5+ years on the back of the Chinese gaming market (hence why they even created Diablo Immortal). They are paying lip service to the Chinese government, because the Chinese government can shut down possibly 50% of their profit with one switch as they have control over what gets online in China (and could turn WoW and other Blizzard games off for Chinese gamers).
Honestly this is why I never played any Blizzard games after Vanilla WoW and their great older games. This is not a company that gives a shit about their classic old Western male customer base anymore. And it's normal. Business is a cold hard game, and the Chinese mobile gaming market makes the Western PC market look like dinosaurs.
Honestly these days I play European RPGs like Witcher franchise. Only games where I don't feel disparaged.
Either live with it, or take your arrogant "everything is America" mindset to political boards that talk about games. The American Constitution is not written for businesses, or the rest of the world, for that matter.
Perfectly stated. Allot of people here in America don't even understand the constitution and what it was written to protect. They think it gives them the right to open their mouth anywhere at anytime on any platform. Completely false.
America & China are two monsters anyway these days (no offense to individual Americans). Look who banned that player, who was it, China? No it was an American public company. Both countries feed each other. Big American Business makes tons of profit in China and in return pay lip service to Chinese government. It's like a devil's bargain, just like US dealings with Saudi Arabia and other messed up country.
We have an enormous democratic deficit in the West, it's just less obvious than in China. Think about it, what can an individual do against an American multi-billion dollar publicly traded corporation? You shut your mouth and buy their products. And if you don't, the masses will, so they don't care about you anyhow.
If you think China is creating infrastructure for military goals, then you really aren't paying attention. China has created infrastructure all resource rich location through out the world , resources used for manufacturing of things like Cellphones, computer components, LCD displays, LED's . This been happening since 1990's throughout Africa and other poor areas of the world with rich resources assets.
Unlike a majority of people babbling on , I've actually know somethings about it. Welcome to the present.
we are all guilty.
You sure took one facetious sentence in response to another out for an assumption ride didn't you?
The point is China has heavily invested in areas where others could have and should have but didn't, and that's why they're able to flex their muscle the way they do now. Thus the honey not vinegar statement. Despite what they do in their own country, they have a better standing just a couple hours outside of Florida and it ain't just electronics. That's a fact.
But by all means, use you deductive skills to pinpoint exactly what I'm talking about and then go on to tell ME about it.
Sincerely, If you're not from where I'm speaking of AND have family in government there, it's a good idea to get back on your Enterprise and obey your prime directive ensign.
Post edited by FlyByKnight on
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
What would people have wanted Blizzard to have done about the China Thing?
Here's the thing. Like half of Blizzard's playerbase is in China. That's a large chuck of their revenue. China has a big history of banning things for the smallest of reasons. Losing that revenue would be a large internal recession leading to mass firing of employees as money coming in goes down.
Now on the other hand, they could do what they did and ban a player who comes out with an important political statement against China's politics. This would lead to a lot of backlash in the west. Many will boycott your product. As more people leave you will get less money and will have to start firing employees, etc etc.
Seem kind of lose lose situation to me. Not saying they are right for what they did, but what should have been the proper solution?
If you think China is creating infrastructure for military goals, then you really aren't paying attention. China has created infrastructure all resource rich location through out the world , resources used for manufacturing of things like Cellphones, computer components, LCD displays, LED's . This been happening since 1990's throughout Africa and other poor areas of the world with rich resources assets.
Unlike a majority of people babbling on , I've actually know somethings about it. Welcome to the present.
we are all guilty.
You sure took one facetious sentence in response to another out for an assumption ride didn't you?
The point is China has heavily invested in areas where others could have and should have but didn't, and that's why they're able to flex their muscle the way they do now. Thus the honey not vinegar statement. Despite what they do in their own country, they have a better standing just a couple ours outside of Florida and it ain't just electronics. That's a fact.
But by all means, use you deductive skills to pinpoint exactly what I'm talking about and then go on to tell ME about it.
Sincerely, If you're not from where I'm speaking of AND have family in government there, it's a good idea to get back on your Enterprise and obey your prime directive ensign.
Maybe he's just taking your words at face value and not picking up your double entendre.
America & China are two monsters anyway these days (no offense to individual Americans). Look who banned that player, who was it, China? No it was an American public company. Both countries feed each other. Big American Business makes tons of profit in China and in return pay lip service to Chinese government. It's like a devil's bargain, just like US dealings with Saudi Arabia and other messed up country.
We have an enormous democratic deficit in the West, it's just less obvious than in China. Think about it, what can an individual do against an American multi-billion dollar publicly traded corporation? You shut your mouth and buy their products. And if you don't, the masses will, so they don't care about you anyhow.
What really hurts my soul is that the people/party that supposedly were against huge corporate oligarchies now embrace it and use it to further their political ends (i.e. all the democrat candidates calling on twitter to silence their political opponent, and Warren threatening multinational megacorps that don't support her or side with her). How about hate them because they are huge, evil monopolies that hate free speech, autonomy, liberty, us peasants, and us having our own thoughts and political freedom? Not side with me and we can prosper together like CCP and Chinese companies (and google and apple).
I don't have a cell phone and people think I'm weird for not having one, but I don't want to support Apple or Google, who I see as pure evil. More evil than any company in any movie or setting cast as the bad guys, from Shadowrun to whoever made Salient Green (or whatever that was called).
I almost gave in and bought a windows phone but I read windows is stopping the support and production of windows phones. And and MS phone wouldn't have made me do cartwheels, but MS is the least bad of the three. Now its just two companies and Satan would have a hard time determining who is more evil between them.
If you think China is creating infrastructure for military goals, then you really aren't paying attention. China has created infrastructure all resource rich location through out the world , resources used for manufacturing of things like Cellphones, computer components, LCD displays, LED's . This been happening since 1990's throughout Africa and other poor areas of the world with rich resources assets.
Unlike a majority of people babbling on , I've actually know somethings about it. Welcome to the present.
we are all guilty.
You sure took one facetious sentence in response to another out for an assumption ride didn't you?
The point is China has heavily invested in areas where others could have and should have but didn't, and that's why they're able to flex their muscle the way they do now. Thus the honey not vinegar statement. Despite what they do in their own country, they have a better standing just a couple ours outside of Florida and it ain't just electronics. That's a fact.
But by all means, use you deductive skills to pinpoint exactly what I'm talking about and then go on to tell ME about it.
Sincerely, If you're not from where I'm speaking of AND have family in government there, it's a good idea to get back on your Enterprise and obey your prime directive ensign.
Maybe he's just taking your words at face value and not picking up your double entendre.
Maybe I can get some senators to help me out and tell everybody "he wasn't serious" or "he didn't literally mean that" or do I need to run for office first? I'm getting confused with all the goal post moving by everybody. I'M SORRY!
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
I almost gave in and bought a windows phone but I read windows is stopping the support and production of windows phones. And and MS phone wouldn't have made me do cartwheels, but MS is the least bad of the three. Now its just two companies and Satan would have a hard time determining who is more evil between them.
I'm only going to tell you the following because I see it's important to you and not to derail the thread.
MS isn't any better. If you have Windows 10, install Wireshark. Learn how to use it and what information you're looking at (sniffing packets, TCP traffic, etc). You'll find 24 services on your computer reporting to Microsoft servers. It's also why they offer free OneDrive service to put all your documents onto their servers, same with Skype.
Also, Microsoft is trying to push SaaS for OSs, like they did already with Office. Basically, they can make you pay a fee to use your own computer for the privilege of using Windows under copyright laws.
It's not just tech companies. All auto manufacturers have got together and lobbied Congress for copyright laws on vehicles. What that means is, if your vehicle needs maintenance or repair, you cannot buy a part and do it yourself. You have to take it to a dealership and pay for their parts, at their markup price and cost for labor. They want to change copyright laws to do this.
What would people have wanted Blizzard to have done about the China Thing?
Here's the thing. Like half of Blizzard's playerbase is in China. That's a large chuck of their revenue. China has a big history of banning things for the smallest of reasons. Losing that revenue would be a large internal recession leading to mass firing of employees as money coming in goes down.
Now on the other hand, they could do what they did and ban a player who comes out with an important political statement against China's politics. This would lead to a lot of backlash in the west. Many will boycott your product. As more people leave you will get less money and will have to start firing employees, etc etc.
Seem kind of lose lose situation to me. Not saying they are right for what they did, but what should have been the proper solution?
How about going back to good old Blizzard that made Diablo 1, Diablo 2, Warcraft, etc? I know...I'm crazy.
If you think China is creating infrastructure for military goals, then you really aren't paying attention. China has created infrastructure all resource rich location through out the world , resources used for manufacturing of things like Cellphones, computer components, LCD displays, LED's . This been happening since 1990's throughout Africa and other poor areas of the world with rich resources assets.
Unlike a majority of people babbling on , I've actually know somethings about it. Welcome to the present.
we are all guilty.
You sure took one facetious sentence in response to another out for an assumption ride didn't you?
The point is China has heavily invested in areas where others could have and should have but didn't, and that's why they're able to flex their muscle the way they do now. Thus the honey not vinegar statement. Despite what they do in their own country, they have a better standing just a couple hours outside of Florida and it ain't just electronics. That's a fact.
But by all means, use you deductive skills to pinpoint exactly what I'm talking about and then go on to tell ME about it.
Sincerely, If you're not from where I'm speaking of AND have family in government there, it's a good idea to get back on your Enterprise and obey your prime directive ensign.
As someone who in the military. no.
I know I know bro. You'll be alright. No hard feelings. *Pats on the back*
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
What would people have wanted Blizzard to have done about the China Thing?
Here's the thing. Like half of Blizzard's playerbase is in China. That's a large chuck of their revenue. China has a big history of banning things for the smallest of reasons. Losing that revenue would be a large internal recession leading to mass firing of employees as money coming in goes down.
Now on the other hand, they could do what they did and ban a player who comes out with an important political statement against China's politics. This would lead to a lot of backlash in the west. Many will boycott your product. As more people leave you will get less money and will have to start firing employees, etc etc.
Seem kind of lose lose situation to me. Not saying they are right for what they did, but what should have been the proper solution?
How about going back to good old Blizzard that made Diablo 1, Diablo 2, Warcraft, etc? I know...I'm crazy.
Starcraft is here and can be banned. WoW is their biggest game of all. Spawned a movie and all that. Half its players are IN China. Banning it would lead to mass layoffs at blizzard. You all say Blizzard is in the wrong but if they had to do a mass layoff after a China ban then what?
I was reading a topic on reddit and it says Blizzard revenue from "asia pacific" is only 15% of their total revenue.
People's argument is since only very tiny potion of Blizzard revenue come from china, they shouldn't try to please china.
I don't know the accuracy of the argument, since some people say the data is false since China's revenue come under loyalties on the financial statement.
It's not just tech companies. All auto manufacturers have got together and lobbied Congress for copyright laws on vehicles. What that means is, if your vehicle needs maintenance or repair, you cannot buy a part and do it yourself. You have to take it to a dealership and pay for their parts, at their markup price and cost for labor. They want to change copyright laws to do this.
Some years ago in Massachusetts there was legislature to force people into bringing their car only to authorized brand shops for maintenance. Thankfully, it was voted down. I don't even know how shit like that is even considered.
Copyright is going crazy in general worldwide, like with Funcom and Conan. The fact that they made a video game now nullifies public domain? Its insanity. The same with Disney, et al, and copyrights now no longer entering public domain 50 years after the death of the creator. Everything is getting worse, more megacorpy, more authoritarian, and everyone seems to love it and cheer it on.
And the fact that there is no sane, actual liberal, and liberty loving party for people like us to join is the saddest part. The LP party has been taken over by war loving "progressive" cultists, no different than the Ds. There just is nowhere to go and no resistance for all the actual big issues while the main parties fight over bathrooms, rubbish, and utter nonsense.
I was reading a topic on reddit and it says Blizzard revenue from "asia pacific" is only 15% of their total revenue.
People's argument is since only very tiny potion of Blizzard revenue come from china, they shouldn't try to please china.
I don't know the accuracy of the argument, since some people say the data is false since China's revenue come under loyalties on the financial statement.
It's not just the current revenue that's important but also projections for the future. If you study the nature of China as a country and its economy, you will see that essentially they are becoming as wealthy as the West in the next decades (per capita), long story short it's going to become the biggest gaming market in the world, at least for mobile games and games like WoW, which for some reason Chinese love. I think it strongly has to do with the nature of the mainland Chinese gamer, who has a very hard life and just wants an "easy" game to let off some steam daily. Also I read that Chinese gamers often dont have their own computers, majority plays in internet cafés. WoW is installed on the internet café PCs. So basically its the type of game that can be installed massively on many cheap PCs unlike the very intensive high end games that Westerners play with the latest graphic cards and processors.
If you think in terms of lootboxes, mobile games, theme park MMOs...China is like a jackpot waiting to happen. I'd probably sell my soul for a million dollar bonus if I was a Blizzard exec too. I hate to say that but its true.
And hillariously, it looks like Blizzard is going to have to explain themselves now or face possible human rights violations. Looks like the Blizzard train is not only derailed, but on fire.
And hillariously, it looks like Blizzard is going to have to explain themselves now or face possible human rights violations. Looks like the Blizzard train is not only derailed, but on fire.
They may have overextended their hand, especially as the current US admin seems to take an anti-China slant (as opposed to the previous admins).
China's been gobbling up business ownership and real-state in the US for years, and giving our government Credit Cards with no limits, what did we think was going to happen at some point?
Comments
Do governments play WoW? Are governments GMs of basketball teams on Twitter? What governments stream titles from Riot games?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Would the outcry be the same if he had said "Kill all gays!"? Blizzard would be heralded as saints, then. And the message again lost: that he broke the rules.
The story is NOT a political one.
I need to leave the thread. I should have stayed out of this one, too
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Perfectly stated. Allot of people here in America don't even understand the constitution and what it was written to protect. They think it gives them the right to open their mouth anywhere at anytime on any platform. Completely false.
Look who banned that player, who was it, China? No it was an American public company.
Both countries feed each other. Big American Business makes tons of profit in China and in return pay lip service to Chinese government. It's like a devil's bargain, just like US dealings with Saudi Arabia and other messed up country.
We have an enormous democratic deficit in the West, it's just less obvious than in China. Think about it, what can an individual do against an American multi-billion dollar publicly traded corporation? You shut your mouth and buy their products. And if you don't, the masses will, so they don't care about you anyhow.
The point is China has heavily invested in areas where others could have and should have but didn't, and that's why they're able to flex their muscle the way they do now. Thus the honey not vinegar statement. Despite what they do in their own country, they have a better standing just a couple hours outside of Florida and it ain't just electronics. That's a fact.
But by all means, use you deductive skills to pinpoint exactly what I'm talking about and then go on to tell ME about it.
Sincerely,
If you're not from where I'm speaking of AND have family in government there, it's a good idea to get back on your Enterprise and obey your prime directive ensign.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
What would people have wanted Blizzard to have done about the China Thing?
Here's the thing. Like half of Blizzard's playerbase is in China. That's a large chuck of their revenue. China has a big history of banning things for the smallest of reasons. Losing that revenue would be a large internal recession leading to mass firing of employees as money coming in goes down.
Now on the other hand, they could do what they did and ban a player who comes out with an important political statement against China's politics. This would lead to a lot of backlash in the west. Many will boycott your product. As more people leave you will get less money and will have to start firing employees, etc etc.
Seem kind of lose lose situation to me. Not saying they are right for what they did, but what should have been the proper solution?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
I don't have a cell phone and people think I'm weird for not having one, but I don't want to support Apple or Google, who I see as pure evil. More evil than any company in any movie or setting cast as the bad guys, from Shadowrun to whoever made Salient Green (or whatever that was called).
I almost gave in and bought a windows phone but I read windows is stopping the support and production of windows phones. And and MS phone wouldn't have made me do cartwheels, but MS is the least bad of the three. Now its just two companies and Satan would have a hard time determining who is more evil between them.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
MS isn't any better. If you have Windows 10, install Wireshark. Learn how to use it and what information you're looking at (sniffing packets, TCP traffic, etc). You'll find 24 services on your computer reporting to Microsoft servers. It's also why they offer free OneDrive service to put all your documents onto their servers, same with Skype.
Also, Microsoft is trying to push SaaS for OSs, like they did already with Office. Basically, they can make you pay a fee to use your own computer for the privilege of using Windows under copyright laws.
It's not just tech companies. All auto manufacturers have got together and lobbied Congress for copyright laws on vehicles. What that means is, if your vehicle needs maintenance or repair, you cannot buy a part and do it yourself. You have to take it to a dealership and pay for their parts, at their markup price and cost for labor. They want to change copyright laws to do this.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
People's argument is since only very tiny potion of Blizzard revenue come from china, they shouldn't try to please china.
I don't know the accuracy of the argument, since some people say the data is false since China's revenue come under loyalties on the financial statement.
Copyright is going crazy in general worldwide, like with Funcom and Conan. The fact that they made a video game now nullifies public domain? Its insanity. The same with Disney, et al, and copyrights now no longer entering public domain 50 years after the death of the creator. Everything is getting worse, more megacorpy, more authoritarian, and everyone seems to love it and cheer it on.
And the fact that there is no sane, actual liberal, and liberty loving party for people like us to join is the saddest part. The LP party has been taken over by war loving "progressive" cultists, no different than the Ds. There just is nowhere to go and no resistance for all the actual big issues while the main parties fight over bathrooms, rubbish, and utter nonsense.
If you study the nature of China as a country and its economy, you will see that essentially they are becoming as wealthy as the West in the next decades (per capita), long story short it's going to become the biggest gaming market in the world, at least for mobile games and games like WoW, which for some reason Chinese love. I think it strongly has to do with the nature of the mainland Chinese gamer, who has a very hard life and just wants an "easy" game to let off some steam daily. Also I read that Chinese gamers often dont have their own computers, majority plays in internet cafés. WoW is installed on the internet café PCs. So basically its the type of game that can be installed massively on many cheap PCs unlike the very intensive high end games that Westerners play with the latest graphic cards and processors.
If you think in terms of lootboxes, mobile games, theme park MMOs...China is like a jackpot waiting to happen. I'd probably sell my soul for a million dollar bonus if I was a Blizzard exec too. I hate to say that but its true.
Gut Out!
What, me worry?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design