For anyone that wants in-game footage there is plenty out there and refusing to look at it is just wilful ignorance.
Here is a pre-alpha stream (about 40 mins of real gameplay) from 6 months ago:
As for the racials, I feel that any 'balance' discussion at this stage is pointless (i.e. what is 10 skill points truly worth?) ... but I would rather have them than not. Case in point: FFXIV, a fun game, but so shallow (and getting shallower), all in the name of 'balance', that it's not worth playing for more than a few days after each content patch.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
At first glance, Dark Myr and Halflings racials look TERRIBLE.
I disagree. Let me try to explain my position.
First of all, I do understand why you think they are bad and I also understand why min/max point of view on these things is probably a majority opinion.
For me though, passive combat stat increases like STR, Crit dmg etc. are completely useless and pointless in a mainly PvE environment. Why? Very simple, no MMO content ever requires you to min/max to complete it. I like to thing I'm a pretty decent player. I know how to gear my characters well and I know how to work my skills and rotations. I'm confident I'll be able to complete any content without a slight dmg boost simply by playing and gearing well, that makes such passives meaningless to me. I much rather prefer to have passives either for flavor or to help me in other combat unrelated parts of the game. Dark Myr passives seem amazing to me.
@Sovrath - non-combat buffs or attributes will make races useless and undesired. The game is about combat and those are the only real attributes that matter to people. I suppose there could be crafting racials, but those nearly always end up being useless as crafted takes back seat at end game.
Well, that's kind of a shame. Don't get me wrong, I love combat. But when a game is solely about combat it takes away a bit of the feeling that you are in a world. Additionally, you then get people just having to be x race in order to be y class otherwise they are useless.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Still, the whole idea of racial abilities is old. Why not change around the whole thing and have the gods the character worships give specific abilities? They could even make them the same as what they've given the various races. Additionally, gods could also give different abilities based on class -- tanks get one type of ability, dps get different abilities, casters and healers each get different abilities. This simple method changes the character system giving more flexibility and removes the need for race/class restrictions that so many dislike. Moreover, it could introduce the possibility of changing gods and not a one-time only decision.
So what? An ogre wants to worship a god of intelligence and become an enchanter? I'm not gonna argue with them; it's still an ogre.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Still, the whole idea of racial abilities is old. Why not change around the whole thing and have the gods the character worships give specific abilities? They could even make them the same as what they've given the various races. Additionally, gods could also give different abilities based on class -- tanks get one type of ability, dps get different abilities, casters and healers each get different abilities. This simple method changes the character system giving more flexibility and removes the need for race/class restrictions that so many dislike. Moreover, it could introduce the possibility of changing gods and not a one-time only decision.
So what? An ogre wants to worship a god of intelligence and become an enchanter? I'm not gonna argue with them; it's still an ogre.
Possibly but it then becomes just another way to add stats. Like everyone wearing earrings. Might as well just include nipple rings.
If one could worship gods and then if they changed they fell out of favor with those gods and received a "negative" and maybe even tasks they had to do while they converted then that could at least be interesting.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Still, the whole idea of racial abilities is old. Why not change around the whole thing and have the gods the character worships give specific abilities?
Good news! The Dwarves get their abilities from being in the presence of their celestial father.
To those saying there aren't videos, uhm there are lots of videos you just have to look... jezuz it's not that hard.
I think they know there are videos as many of have commented on posts that actually touted videos.
Their point might be more along the lines of "ok, it's been a while since those last videos, what have you done?"
The problem is that they might not get it or they think these small studios are the same as large studios with "all the funding!"
They want time tables like well established studios can bring.
What's probably more the truth is that they only have "so much money" they are probably getting some of their developers part time or even free as time allows.
They probably did the math, thought that they were going to be able to have enough money given their initial estimates but then realized it would take longer.
Of course they did say, once their kickstarter failed and they had to go back to the drawing board, that they were going ahead with development but had to remake their team AND that development would be at a slower pace. That could have meant a few months but it could have meant a few years.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Still, the whole idea of racial abilities is old. Why not change around the whole thing and have the gods the character worships give specific abilities? They could even make them the same as what they've given the various races. Additionally, gods could also give different abilities based on class -- tanks get one type of ability, dps get different abilities, casters and healers each get different abilities. This simple method changes the character system giving more flexibility and removes the need for race/class restrictions that so many dislike. Moreover, it could introduce the possibility of changing gods and not a one-time only decision.
So what? An ogre wants to worship a god of intelligence and become an enchanter? I'm not gonna argue with them; it's still an ogre.
Possibly but it then becomes just another way to add stats. Like everyone wearing earrings. Might as well just include nipple rings.
If one could worship gods and then if they changed they fell out of favor with those gods and received a "negative" and maybe even tasks they had to do while they converted then that could at least be interesting.
Adding stats is all that racial defined abilities do. The method I suggested is more flexible, and allows players to make that choice independent of what their character looks like. And like you pointed out, change.
Abilities for races is exactly the same technique that Brad used before. That mechanic was almost completely abandoned as the game evolved. Something different would be more than welcome.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Still, the whole idea of racial abilities is old. Why not change around the whole thing and have the gods the character worships give specific abilities? They could even make them the same as what they've given the various races. Additionally, gods could also give different abilities based on class -- tanks get one type of ability, dps get different abilities, casters and healers each get different abilities. This simple method changes the character system giving more flexibility and removes the need for race/class restrictions that so many dislike. Moreover, it could introduce the possibility of changing gods and not a one-time only decision.
So what? An ogre wants to worship a god of intelligence and become an enchanter? I'm not gonna argue with them; it's still an ogre.
Possibly but it then becomes just another way to add stats. Like everyone wearing earrings. Might as well just include nipple rings.
If one could worship gods and then if they changed they fell out of favor with those gods and received a "negative" and maybe even tasks they had to do while they converted then that could at least be interesting.
Adding stats is all that racial defined abilities do. The method I suggested is more flexible, and allows players to make that choice independent of what their character looks like. And like you pointed out, change.
Abilities for races is exactly the same technique that Brad used before. That mechanic was almost completely abandoned as the game evolved. Something different would be more than welcome.
Yes, the method you suggested is more flexible. I'm arguing for a less flexible solution or at least one that allows for positives and negatives.
Racials allow for positives and negatives. The only problem is that when they are tied to combat that then makes those negatives deal breakers for varying races.
So yeah, gods would be great (or spirits, demons, whatever) but I'd want to see positives and negatives as well as consequences for changing gods. Otherwise we might as well go with the nipple rings.
Post edited by Sovrath on
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
To be honest there is too much criticism around what VR does.
I know is not a popular opinion, but I bet that Pantheon will released earlier than any other MMO in production, and it will be of better quality.
Time will tell, but I like the way VR is working.
Will all depend on whether the fanbase continues to fund their efforts or they secure additional investor funding.
You may have noted this latest video kicked off with a reminder of pledge pack availability and a plea to consider supporting their efforts.
Good move IMO, if you looked at some of the viewer chatter there were people pleading for VR to sell them things, such as model figurines and so forth.
I believe their reason for the recent increased communications including this new bi-monthly video newsletter is in part to encourage and even ramp up donations which likely fell off in recent months.
They don't live in a vacuum, I'm sure they are well aware of how enthusiastically SC and even COE backers have spent on additional items to fund development and we've already seen some of this last month with the new store and I expect more "opportunities" will be forthcoming.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Still, the whole idea of racial abilities is old. Why not change around the whole thing and have the gods the character worships give specific abilities? They could even make them the same as what they've given the various races. Additionally, gods could also give different abilities based on class -- tanks get one type of ability, dps get different abilities, casters and healers each get different abilities. This simple method changes the character system giving more flexibility and removes the need for race/class restrictions that so many dislike. Moreover, it could introduce the possibility of changing gods and not a one-time only decision.
So what? An ogre wants to worship a god of intelligence and become an enchanter? I'm not gonna argue with them; it's still an ogre.
Possibly but it then becomes just another way to add stats. Like everyone wearing earrings. Might as well just include nipple rings.
If one could worship gods and then if they changed they fell out of favor with those gods and received a "negative" and maybe even tasks they had to do while they converted then that could at least be interesting.
Adding stats is all that racial defined abilities do. The method I suggested is more flexible, and allows players to make that choice independent of what their character looks like. And like you pointed out, change.
Abilities for races is exactly the same technique that Brad used before. That mechanic was almost completely abandoned as the game evolved. Something different would be more than welcome.
Not sure why you feel it should be either/or. If dieties are added to the game, why couldn't it be both ? It's been done before in other games. Would also give more flexibility for the people who want choices, and would (probably) give another clear cut direction for the min/maxers. Everybody wins. And people like to win.
At first glance, Dark Myr and Halflings racials look TERRIBLE.
Why would that be?
They look fine. Dark Myr has an awareness of the environment around them which is a huge help considering that "noticing things" is part of how the quests and lore get disseminated. Also, noticing stealthed opponents is a huge help.
Better Pressure acclimation and swim speed is a plus for underwater exploration (well, this is assuming they have underwater exploration which seems to be a part of their plan for having different biomes with different requirements)
If people are looking for "combat" racials for everyone then that's a different story. I'd much more prefer racials that make the races unique in the world as well as having strengths (and weaknesses) in combat.
Yeah, if I didn't look at any of the other races innates I might think that too. You're not going to convince me that's just as good as immunity, resists, + bonuses, etc. How much time are you planning to spend underwater? Dark Myr racials are already a meme on Pantheon forums. I'm all for unique racials but unique just for the sake of unique is boring and useless.
Gnomes get +3% dodge? Lolwut? The ONLY race with no tanking classes get the dodge bonus. MAKES SENSE TO ME! Halflings got totally screwed on that one. They should have got the dodge bonus. There is ZERO reason to make Halfling warrior unless dagger-tanking wraiths will be in high demand.
At first glance, Dark Myr and Halflings racials look TERRIBLE.
I disagree. Let me try to explain my position.
First of all, I do understand why you think they are bad and I also understand why min/max point of view on these things is probably a majority opinion.
For me though, passive combat stat increases like STR, Crit dmg etc. are completely useless and pointless in a mainly PvE environment. Why? Very simple, no MMO content ever requires you to min/max to complete it. I like to thing I'm a pretty decent player. I know how to gear my characters well and I know how to work my skills and rotations. I'm confident I'll be able to complete any content without a slight dmg boost simply by playing and gearing well, that makes such passives meaningless to me. I much rather prefer to have passives either for flavor or to help me in other combat unrelated parts of the game. Dark Myr passives seem amazing to me.
Well, most players aren't min/max but that isn't my concern. Things like immunities and resists are game changing, especially when it comes to healing and tanking. A tank or heals that can't be stunned is game changing. A tank that can't be knocked back is game changing. A healer that can't be interrupted or silenced is game changing. A tank with disarm immunity is game changing. These are all clearly superior options just to name a few.
Abilities for races is exactly the same technique that Brad used before. That mechanic was almost completely abandoned as the game evolved. Something different would be more than welcome.
It's all about making long or short term choices.
For example, if you choose an ability that lets you see in the dark, that's going to be worthwhile the whole game.
if you choose +5 to stamina, that will help a lot when you first start, but it will soon become trivial.
If you choose 5% more stamina, that will always be good.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
All of these add a little something to a class, and that is what I lo e about racials.
you can give your class even more benefits by picking racials that compliment what it already does, or you can diversify and give it something that the class lacks.
The game still looks boring as hell to me, but I’m such an old school D&D nerd that something as fundamental as racists in this day and age gets me excited....
At first glance, Dark Myr and Halflings racials look TERRIBLE.
I disagree. Let me try to explain my position.
First of all, I do understand why you think they are bad and I also understand why min/max point of view on these things is probably a majority opinion.
For me though, passive combat stat increases like STR, Crit dmg etc. are completely useless and pointless in a mainly PvE environment. Why? Very simple, no MMO content ever requires you to min/max to complete it. I like to thing I'm a pretty decent player. I know how to gear my characters well and I know how to work my skills and rotations. I'm confident I'll be able to complete any content without a slight dmg boost simply by playing and gearing well, that makes such passives meaningless to me. I much rather prefer to have passives either for flavor or to help me in other combat unrelated parts of the game. Dark Myr passives seem amazing to me.
Well, most players aren't min/max but that isn't my concern. Things like immunities and resists are game changing, especially when it comes to healing and tanking. A tank or heals that can't be stunned is game changing. A tank that can't be knocked back is game changing. A healer that can't be interrupted or silenced is game changing. A tank with disarm immunity is game changing. These are all clearly superior options just to name a few.
and I'm sure these will be achievable through other means as well. I highly doubt any of these passives by themselves will be a difference between a kill and a wipe. That means they are not game changing to me.
Gnomes get +3% dodge? Lolwut? The ONLY race with no tanking classes get the dodge bonus. MAKES SENSE TO ME! Halflings got totally screwed on that one. They should have got the dodge bonus. There is ZERO reason to make Halfling warrior unless dagger-tanking wraiths will be in high demand.
For rogues and bards the dodge is for those classes.
Gnomes get +3% dodge? Lolwut? The ONLY race with no tanking classes get the dodge bonus. MAKES SENSE TO ME! Halflings got totally screwed on that one. They should have got the dodge bonus. There is ZERO reason to make Halfling warrior unless dagger-tanking wraiths will be in high demand.
For rogues and bards the dodge is for those classes.
Comments
For anyone that wants in-game footage there is plenty out there and refusing to look at it is just wilful ignorance.
Here is a pre-alpha stream (about 40 mins of real gameplay) from 6 months ago:
As for the racials, I feel that any 'balance' discussion at this stage is pointless (i.e. what is 10 skill points truly worth?) ... but I would rather have them than not. Case in point: FFXIV, a fun game, but so shallow (and getting shallower), all in the name of 'balance', that it's not worth playing for more than a few days after each content patch.
Hey there youngster
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I disagree. Let me try to explain my position.
First of all, I do understand why you think they are bad and I also understand why min/max point of view on these things is probably a majority opinion.
For me though, passive combat stat increases like STR, Crit dmg etc. are completely useless and pointless in a mainly PvE environment. Why? Very simple, no MMO content ever requires you to min/max to complete it. I like to thing I'm a pretty decent player. I know how to gear my characters well and I know how to work my skills and rotations. I'm confident I'll be able to complete any content without a slight dmg boost simply by playing and gearing well, that makes such passives meaningless to me. I much rather prefer to have passives either for flavor or to help me in other combat unrelated parts of the game. Dark Myr passives seem amazing to me.
I know is not a popular opinion, but I bet that Pantheon will released earlier than any other MMO in production, and it will be of better quality.
Time will tell, but I like the way VR is working.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
If one could worship gods and then if they changed they fell out of favor with those gods and received a "negative" and maybe even tasks they had to do while they converted then that could at least be interesting.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Their point might be more along the lines of "ok, it's been a while since those last videos, what have you done?"
The problem is that they might not get it or they think these small studios are the same as large studios with "all the funding!"
They want time tables like well established studios can bring.
What's probably more the truth is that they only have "so much money" they are probably getting some of their developers part time or even free as time allows.
They probably did the math, thought that they were going to be able to have enough money given their initial estimates but then realized it would take longer.
Of course they did say, once their kickstarter failed and they had to go back to the drawing board, that they were going ahead with development but had to remake their team AND that development would be at a slower pace. That could have meant a few months but it could have meant a few years.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Racials allow for positives and negatives. The only problem is that when they are tied to combat that then makes those negatives deal breakers for varying races.
So yeah, gods would be great (or spirits, demons, whatever) but I'd want to see positives and negatives as well as consequences for changing gods. Otherwise we might as well go with the nipple rings.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
You may have noted this latest video kicked off with a reminder of pledge pack availability and a plea to consider supporting their efforts.
Good move IMO, if you looked at some of the viewer chatter there were people pleading for VR to sell them things, such as model figurines and so forth.
I believe their reason for the recent increased communications including this new bi-monthly video newsletter is in part to encourage and even ramp up donations which likely fell off in recent months.
They don't live in a vacuum, I'm sure they are well aware of how enthusiastically SC and even COE backers have spent on additional items to fund development and we've already seen some of this last month with the new store and I expect more "opportunities" will be forthcoming.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
For example, if you choose an ability that lets you see in the dark, that's going to be worthwhile the whole game.
if you choose +5 to stamina, that will help a lot when you first start, but it will soon become trivial.
If you choose 5% more stamina, that will always be good.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I like racials like:
underwater breathing
swim speed increase
dodge%
stamina%
stealth that breaks if you move
self/group cleanse on a cd
resist/reduce x damage type
All of these add a little something to a class, and that is what I lo e about racials.
you can give your class even more benefits by picking racials that compliment what it already does, or you can diversify and give it something that the class lacks.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.