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Star Citizen (jointly) wins coveted award for worst MMO business model

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Comments

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,317
    We are not paying to do testing. All this is volunteer work.

    We paid, because it is a crowdfunding project. It is in the very nature of crowdfunding that the backers pay for the development. You ARE familiar with the basic idea of crowdfunding, are you not?

    And you do not have to pay a single buck for Star Citizen if you do not want to. There have been many free fly events, where you can check it out for free.

    "..produced nothing..." That may be your opinion. I am playing almost daily with a lot of friends in that "nothing" you speak of. Very much enjoying it too.

    I tend to disagree with your assessment ;-) And i DO own the game and DO play the Alpha - I have one medium sized ship (Constellation) and one account.


    Have fun
    botrytis
  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,502
    edited December 2019
    Erillion said:
    Well it has been 7 years, saying it is not fixed yet is probably not the best defense :confounded:
    But it is. Because its the truth.
    And there is no defense necessary. The project is the way it is.
    Have fun
    So deep.
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630
    edited December 2019
    Erillion said:

    And i DO own the game ....
    No. In this regard, SC is the same as any other online game. At most you own a license. 
    botrytisGdemami

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,502
    Erillion said:
    We are not paying to do testing. All this is volunteer work.

    We paid, because it is a crowdfunding project. It is in the very nature of crowdfunding that the backers pay for the development. You ARE familiar with the basic idea of crowdfunding, are you not?

    And you do not have to pay a single buck for Star Citizen if you do not want to. There have been many free fly events, where you can check it out for free.

    "..produced nothing..." That may be your opinion. I am playing almost daily with a lot of friends in that "nothing" you speak of. Very much enjoying it too.

    I tend to disagree with your assessment ;-) And i DO own the game and DO play the Alpha - I have one medium sized ship (Constellation) and one account.


    Have fun
    In the spirit of full disclosure you should mention that you pay a subscription for the last 6 years as well. I don't know if that is the $10 or $20 option but it is another $720 - $1440 on top of your $300 ship either way.
    botrytisGdemamiKefo
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,317
    In the spirit of full disclosure you should mention that you pay a subscription for the last 6 years as well. I don't know if that is the $10 or $20 option but it is another $720 - $1440 on top of your $300 ship either way.

    I am not an employee so no "full disclosure" is necessary, but i have already mentioned it here so no problem. I do have the voluntary "Centurion" subscription (thats the smaller one for 12 $) since the program exists. And never regretted it as i am a great fan of the "Jump Point" magazine and especially the short stories published therein. Could i get "Jump Point" for free? Sure i could. But i dont. I think a lot of good stuff for the community was created using the subscription support




    Have fun
    rpmcmurphy
  • botrytisbotrytis Member RarePosts: 3,363
    edited December 2019
    Erillion said:
    We are not paying to do testing. All this is volunteer work.

    We paid, because it is a crowdfunding project. It is in the very nature of crowdfunding that the backers pay for the development. You ARE familiar with the basic idea of crowdfunding, are you not?

    And you do not have to pay a single buck for Star Citizen if you do not want to. There have been many free fly events, where you can check it out for free.

    "..produced nothing..." That may be your opinion. I am playing almost daily with a lot of friends in that "nothing" you speak of. Very much enjoying it too.

    I tend to disagree with your assessment ;-) And i DO own the game and DO play the Alpha - I have one medium sized ship (Constellation) and one account.


    Have fun
    Sure you are. Can someone who doesn't pay actually test? I don't think so.

    You are biased and that is an issue. 

    You are totally invested in this game without having any objective look at what is really going on. 

    Game companies get hit for limiting games, so they can get them out. There is a reason for that. With unlimited ideas, the development can go on forever without producing anything.

    250 million dollars is a lot of money for, shall we say, a little bit of fluff. But only for 1500 dollars you can have this new ship we drew.

    A scam is a scam.
    ErillionGdemami


  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,317
    Amathe said:
    Erillion said:

    And i DO own the game ....
    No. In this regard, SC is the same as any other online game. At most you own a license. 

    If you like the exact wording, here you are (wall of text in legalese):


    I own a pledge package. What this means EXACTLY you can read in that link.

    Go ahead. You know you want it.



    Have fun


    Gdemami
  • olepiolepi Member EpicPosts: 3,017
    Babuinix said:
    olepi said:
    Star Citizen doesn't really have a business model yet. They don't have a product, they don't have sales of a product, they have no return on investment, they have no schedule for any of these things.

    A business model implies a business, where the business has a product or service and sells it. SC doesn't have a product and isn't selling anything. The website makes it clear you aren't buying anything if you make a donation.

    It would be interesting to know how all the money is counted. Does SC pay income tax? Is the money considered income? What is the tax on $300 million?
    Wrong. All Of It. Just plain wrong.

    Not only they have a business model but a thriving one, not only they have a product but a very unique and sought after one that not only keeps getting better but making more people eager for it. Cloud Imperium has made a business of selling the possibility to support and try their product in advance to make it come to fruition. B)

    The project was announced in the end of 2012 and playable demo's have been available to try since 2013, those have been updated and improved ever since providing unique gameplay experiences that players have been enjoying and searching for as it's shown by the constant increase of players and funding showcased every year.

    And it's really only getting started :) As the game gets more and more and more fleshed and polished the more players will join the fun!

    This year might have been arecord year, but 2020 will be even better B)

    Everything I said was 100% correct. Go to their webpage, you will see that nothing is for sale. You can make a donation, but you cannot BUY anything. There are demos, alphas, etc, but no sellable product.

    Hence, no business plan yet. Perhaps they have something in mind if they ever do have a product for sale. But that isn't today.
    Gdemami

    ------------
    2024: 47 years on the Net.


  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,317
    botrytis said:

    Sure you are. Can someone who doesn't pay actually test? I don't think so.

    You are biased and that is an issue. 

    You are totally invested in this game without having any objective look at what is really going on. 

    Game companies get hit for limiting games, so they can get them out. There is a reason for that. With unlimited ideas, the development can go on forever without producing anything.

    250 million dollars is a lot of money for, shall we say, a little bit of fluff. But only for 1500 dollars you can have this new ship we drew.

    A scam is a scam.

    >>>>
    You are biases and that is an issue. Please stop posting.
    >>>>
    (in before you changed the text ;-) )


    "Please stop posting. " ... You wish :-D



    Have fun

    PS:
    This IS a Star Citizen subforum. It is the PURPOSE to talk about Star Citizen here. Fans are allowed to meet here and talk about the game that this subforum was made for. Its perfectly OK for fans to be biased. ;-)

    PPS:
    To "get the new ship they drew" i do not need 1500 dollars at all. I can just wait til after launch and get it with in game money. Not a single real world buck needed beyond a basic pledge package. I am a multi-billionaire in EVE. I am a multi-billionaire in Elite Dangerous. It is not hard to get all the money you want in game in a space game once you understand the underlying game systems. Soon you could buy every ship you want. They will usually just sit in the hangar anyway, collecting dust.

    botrytisnewbismx
  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,502
    Erillion said:
    In the spirit of full disclosure you should mention that you pay a subscription for the last 6 years as well. I don't know if that is the $10 or $20 option but it is another $720 - $1440 on top of your $300 ship either way.

    I am not an employee so no "full disclosure" is necessary, but i have already mentioned it here so no problem. I do have the voluntary "Centurion" subscription (thats the smaller one for 12 $) since the program exists. And never regretted it as i am a great fan of the "Jump Point" magazine and especially the short stories published therein. Could i get "Jump Point" for free? Sure i could. But i dont. I think a lot of good stuff for the community was created using the subscription support




    Have fun
    You don't have to be an employee for full disclosure. It is a widely recognised phenomenon that the more money a person has spent on something the more positively they tend to view it. And there is quite some difference between $300 and $1100+

    I do think it's quite admirable spending your money on the community orientated stuff rather than buying P2W ships though.
    GdemamiTom_Neverwinter
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,317
    olepi said:

    Everything I said was 100% correct. Go to their webpage, you will see that nothing is for sale. You can make a donation, but you cannot BUY anything. There are demos, alphas, etc, but no sellable product.

    Hence, no business plan yet. Perhaps they have something in mind if they ever do have a product for sale. But that isn't today.

    The business plan - since day 1:

    • Sales of Squadron 42 and mission discs

    • Starter packages

    • Skins and cosmetics items

    • Limited amount of UEC

    • merchandise and voluntary subscriptions ("Jump Point" magazine etc.)

    That is the plan from the very beginning. Has not changed.

    Easily found on Google too, if you care to do a basic search for "Star Citizen business plan" ;-)


    Have fun


  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630
    Erillion said:
    Amathe said:
    Erillion said:

    And i DO own the game ....
    No. In this regard, SC is the same as any other online game. At most you own a license. 

    If you like the exact wording, here you are (wall of text in legalese):


    I own a pledge package. What this means EXACTLY you can read in that link.

    Go ahead. You know you want it.



    Have fun


    Article IV

    You do not purchase anything ....


    Article IX

    "This clause explains the general nature of in-game items (ships, weapons etc.) as virtual goods, and to what extent you may gift them to another player. You do not become owner of the virtual goods but you receive a license to use them."

    Article XII(C)

    RSI grants to you a non-exclusive, limited license to use the RSI Software solely for the purpose stated by RSI at the time the RSI Software is made available to you.

    That language is in there again and again. 
    Tom_NeverwinterErillion

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • botrytisbotrytis Member RarePosts: 3,363
    For Profit companies DO NOT NEED DONATIONS. PERIOD. 

    I invest in things that I will get money back from. Since this game has been in development how much return on investment have people received? Just asking (enjoyment I get but I can get cheaper and easier).

    I just think it is sad, so many bought into this scam. As it is, that is all I can see it as.
    Tom_NeverwinterGdemami


  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630
    edited December 2019
    There is also the EULA:

    Subject to your agreement and continuing compliance with the RSI Terms, RSI hereby grants to you a limited, personal, non-exclusive, non-transferable, non-assignable and fully revocable license ....

    https://robertsspaceindustries.com/eula

    By the way, that is why it is called an End User LICENSE Agreement.
    Tom_Neverwinter

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • botrytisbotrytis Member RarePosts: 3,363
    Erillion said:
    olepi said:

    Everything I said was 100% correct. Go to their webpage, you will see that nothing is for sale. You can make a donation, but you cannot BUY anything. There are demos, alphas, etc, but no sellable product.

    Hence, no business plan yet. Perhaps they have something in mind if they ever do have a product for sale. But that isn't today.

    The business plan - since day 1:

    • Sales of Squadron 42 and mission discs

    • Starter packages

    • Skins and cosmetics items

    • Limited amount of UEC

    • merchandise and voluntary subscriptions ("Jump Point" magazine etc.)

    That is the plan from the very beginning. Has not changed.

    Easily found on Google too, if you care to do a basic search for "Star Citizen business plan" ;-)


    Have fun


    That is not a business plan. That is bullet points in a presentation. A business plans talks about how to get money (monetization), employees, how long to publishing, etc.

    Sorry, that is not a business plan.

    https://www.sba.gov/business-guide/plan-your-business/write-your-business-plan


    AmathenewbismxGdemamiErillionKefo


  • newbismxnewbismx Member UncommonPosts: 276
    botrytis said:
    Erillion said:
    olepi said:

    Everything I said was 100% correct. Go to their webpage, you will see that nothing is for sale. You can make a donation, but you cannot BUY anything. There are demos, alphas, etc, but no sellable product.

    Hence, no business plan yet. Perhaps they have something in mind if they ever do have a product for sale. But that isn't today.

    The business plan - since day 1:

    • Sales of Squadron 42 and mission discs

    • Starter packages

    • Skins and cosmetics items

    • Limited amount of UEC

    • merchandise and voluntary subscriptions ("Jump Point" magazine etc.)

    That is the plan from the very beginning. Has not changed.

    Easily found on Google too, if you care to do a basic search for "Star Citizen business plan" ;-)


    Have fun


    That is not a business plan. That is bullet points in a presentation. A business plans talks about how to get money (monetization), employees, how long to publishing, etc.

    Sorry, that is not a business plan.

    https://www.sba.gov/business-guide/plan-your-business/write-your-business-plan


    If your 'business' is about milking the gullible and living the high life as long as possible- They have a solid plan.  
    Tom_Neverwinterbotrytis
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 4,442
    olepi said:
    Everything I said was 100% correct. Go to their webpage, you will see that nothing is for sale. 
    100% Wrong :)

    https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/merchandise

    Tom_NeverwinterErillion
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630
    edited December 2019
    Babuinix said:
    olepi said:
    Everything I said was 100% correct. Go to their webpage, you will see that nothing is for sale. 
    100% Wrong :)

    https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/merchandise

    You are both right, and you are both wrong.

    What is for sale are limited, revocable licenses.

    And I am not saying that is something fraudulent. Nearly all online videogames sell a licensed product, and many sell licensed virtual goods as well.

    There are other things about SC of which I am critical. But the use of licensing is not one.

    Oh and btw, I am not counting t-shirts and shit like that.
    Tom_Neverwinter

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member EpicPosts: 3,465
    If you get charged tax on it, it is not a donation....
    TillerKefoPhaserlightGdemami

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 11,449
    edited December 2019
    If you get charged tax on it, it is not a donation....
    Yes, buying into Star Citizen is legally not a not a donation of any kind; I kind I wonder if CR is paying all the taxes he should be. Hmmmm
    Tom_NeverwinterGdemami
    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
     
  • Tom_NeverwinterTom_Neverwinter Member UncommonPosts: 30
    edited December 2019
    Tiller said:
    If you get charged tax on it, it is not a donation....
    Yes, buying into Star Citizen is legally not a not a donation of any kind; I kind I wonder if CR is paying all the taxes he should be. Hmmmm
    considering they were already investigated...... yup. 

    this has been covered.... please use google.

    https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14433-VAT-Change-Announcement

    the EU branch's taxes are publicly posted every year.... 
    even their US holdings have been dropped during the annihilation of cryengine...

    GG crytek.... trying to sue over a license you sold to amazon..... then failing XD
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgZTmvB3buQ

    seriously.... google... your material is so old and outdated its stupid...
    BabuinixErillionrpmcmurphy
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Tiller said:
    If you get charged tax on it, it is not a donation....
    Yes, buying into Star Citizen is legally not a not a donation of any kind; I kind I wonder if CR is paying all the taxes he should be. Hmmmm
    considering they were already investigated...... yup. 

    this has been covered.... please use google.

    https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14433-VAT-Change-Announcement

    the EU branch's taxes are publicly posted every year.... 
    even their US holdings have been dropped during the annihilation of cryengine...

    GG crytek.... trying to sue over a license you sold to amazon..... then failing XD
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgZTmvB3buQ

    seriously.... google... your material is so old and outdated its stupid...
    Lol maybe you need to take your own advice over what exactly Crytek is suing over
    rpmcmurphy
  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,916
    Well in case anyone is interested...

    A guy spent 30,000 on Star Citizen.


    And someone spent 20,000 on SWTOR.


    Is what a quick google for "spent on (gamename)" came up with.



    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

    Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/ 

  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,973
    Nilden said:
    Well in case anyone is interested...

    A guy spent 30,000 on Star Citizen.


    And someone spent 20,000 on SWTOR.


    Is what a quick google for "spent on (gamename)" came up with.
    I don't think this award is just about how much you've spent.

    With SWTOR the stuff is delivered immediately and you'll usually know precisely what you got by the time you make your next purchase, whereas with Star Citizen you get a kind of unfinished demo of what they'll eventually deliver to you, and end up in a situation where if RSI doesn't keep getting constantly more funding you'll never get the actual game.

    A customer buying stuff for a released game is in a much better position to evaluate whether his prior purchase was worth it before making further purchases, and isn't asked to take similar risks of not getting his stuff.
    GdemamiArglebargle
     
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Vrika said:
    Nilden said:
    Well in case anyone is interested...

    A guy spent 30,000 on Star Citizen.


    And someone spent 20,000 on SWTOR.


    Is what a quick google for "spent on (gamename)" came up with.
    I don't think this award is just about how much you've spent.

    With SWTOR the stuff is delivered immediately and you'll usually know precisely what you got by the time you make your next purchase, whereas with Star Citizen you get a kind of unfinished demo of what they'll eventually deliver to you, and end up in a situation where if RSI doesn't keep getting constantly more funding you'll never get the actual game.

    A customer buying stuff for a released game is in a much better position to evaluate whether his prior purchase was worth it before making further purchases, and isn't asked to take similar risks of not getting his stuff.
    Don’t forget in that example you will have an idea of what you could get in SWTOR (didn’t click the link but I assume loot boxes) while in SC you are mostly buying a jpeg and CI is free to change it how they see fit (even if it means deviating from the original purpose) and you are not entitled to a refund. It also seems the newer ships coming out are made to be better then the current existing ship so congrats you already have “gear” progression before the game has left pre alpha. 
    Gdemami
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