And because it can another sphere of gaming. Next to PvE / Crafting / Farming / ... whatever other areas you have; for example Vanguard also had Diplomacy.
There was also Fishing though I hated that with a passion because absolutely batshit superboring. Watching paint dry is about the same level of fun. Plus, thanks to my poor ping (having to play from Europe on the last remaining US server) I stood no chance for success anyway.
And theres many variants of PvP. You can have open world PvP, arena/battlegrounds, castle sieges (see Lineage 2), ...
I am not aware theres any PvP only players. In most games you have to level PvE first.
Not true in EVE, and I've met several who only ever PVPd
They just traded PLEX for ISK to fund their activities.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Any style of PvP whether open world, full loot or anything that actually promotes griefing instead of fair encounters is specifically designed for sociopaths. That being said, I enjoy PvP when it's designed properly, such as Dark Age of Camelot. The moment I hear people complain about not being able to murder other players when and where ever they so choose, I suspect deep antisocial and unempathetic issues.
um no.
That's not to say that there aren't sociopaths who play them. Just like video games aren't just for man boys who live in some basement getting fat off junk food. Oh sure, there are some, but they appeal to reasonable people as well.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Any style of PvP whether open world, full loot or anything that actually promotes griefing instead of fair encounters is specifically designed for sociopaths. That being said, I enjoy PvP when it's designed properly, such as Dark Age of Camelot. The moment I hear people complain about not being able to murder other players when and where ever they so choose, I suspect deep antisocial and unempathetic issues.
um no.
That's not to say that there aren't sociopaths who play them. Just like video games aren't just for man boys who live in some basement getting fat off junk food. Oh sure, there are some, but they appeal to reasonable people as well.
Define reasonable people who enjoy griefing? The irony within that argument.
Not everyone who plays an open world pvp griefs. That's the issue with your argument. Just because there is a group of people who take advantage of that doesn't mean everyone does.
Hope that helps.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
And because it can another sphere of gaming. Next to PvE / Crafting / Farming / ... whatever other areas you have; for example Vanguard also had Diplomacy.
There was also Fishing though I hated that with a passion because absolutely batshit superboring. Watching paint dry is about the same level of fun. Plus, thanks to my poor ping (having to play from Europe on the last remaining US server) I stood no chance for success anyway.
And theres many variants of PvP. You can have open world PvP, arena/battlegrounds, castle sieges (see Lineage 2), ...
I am not aware theres any PvP only players. In most games you have to level PvE first.
The players who look for hard-core full loot PvP sandboxes don't seem to be interested at all in PvE
mostly? challenge, against someone else things get impredictable, unless he do pvp like he do his "raids" following the script and holding the macro button, with mostly are easy to deal with
things with pve is always or is a cheap move or is huge numbers, be hp or number of mobs, pvp at the very least, with orgazined people you need to worry about some random attack
That's definitely the state of things at the moment I think but is it intrinsecally tied to PvE or PvP? Does PvE really need to be predictable, based on bosses that takes forever to be killed by doing the same rotation without messing up?
I think something different, without thinking about crazy quantum computer technologies and stuff like that, could be done.
My main "problem" is not against grievers, toxic people etc (even if these issues exist).
Maybe I don't have enough faith in the players to keep creating and playng something in a fun way and not trying to push the system.
In my (not that big) experience of PvP with capture points etc I've seen many times that people prefer to run in opposite direction to conquer points and avoiding direct fights with the other team/ faction, this is a specific issue that could probably be resolved in many ways but its core make me think that without some guidance from "the system" expecting a game to work well is something of a gamble.
I don't know where you live, but here in Italy soccer is very popular and groups of friends, who usually start playng in a team when they're very young and quit in their late teens, they develop the habit of organizing soccer matches among friends, maybe once a week.
Traditional soccer is played 11 vs 11, the most popular version played by friends is the 5 vs 5, which is still hard to organize and prone to failure.
Imagine having a decent game with a decent number of players with the right attitude, that can play it with a certain level of constance, are somehow able to fight and cooperate properly.
Imagine now that you have tho triple that to make a 3 factions open world PvP (cause 2 is not enough and you risk unbalance etc) and make it work for everybody.
It's not utopia, people tell me it's been done greatly in Daoc and Planetside iirc, but it's still a gamble.
Had played EVE for many years started way back at launch, and in that game and only game made my heart race when I was in a PVP battle or small scale skirmish, you can never get that feeling from fighting NPCs.
Played PVP in many MMOs but only in EVE I got that rush.
Had played EVE for many years started way back at launch, and in that game and only game made my heart race when I was in a PVP battle or small scale skirmish, you can never get that feeling from fighting NPCs.
Played PVP in many MMOs but only in EVE I got that rush.
I'm asking PvP fans who actively seek open world PvP: what if a game put at the core of the game an open PvE system, very little instanced content, good AI with mobs that provide challenge (not in the way big raid bosses have done to this day) dynamic events where the mobs actually seek to destroy you and conquer your territories, while you are also able to conquer their base etc, meaningful death penalty.
Does this type of game still (which doesn't exist I think) not appeal to you?
Let me know what you think
I'm already playing one like this: there are a few factions of "Hive" and NPC pirates that will expand and take over territory unless pressured by players.
The Robotic Hive will develop strongholds over areas that are rich in resources needed for manufacturing. Some of the weaker bastions can be taken on single handedly, but to go after bigger targets you really need to group up with other players. The strength of these 'nerve centers' depends on how much territory they control: you have to be somewhat picky about your battles. Going right for a decapitating strike will easily backfire if you haven't subverted the enemy's foundation, first.
NPC pirates ("unrats") will lay ambushes along choke points in unmonitored space, and will wreak havoc on poorly defended shipping endeavors. Their AI is such that they will run back to their hidden mothership if you give them a "shellacking"; you can then follow them to discover the location of their fleet, and "dive bomb" their carrier with Raptors and the like. If you are successful, space becomes much safer for a time.
Fighting the unrats isn't like fighting the Hive; different strategies are required.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
Had played EVE for many years started way back at launch, and in that game and only game made my heart race when I was in a PVP battle or small scale skirmish, you can never get that feeling from fighting NPCs.
Played PVP in many MMOs but only in EVE I got that rush.
Was it the real fear of losing stuff / progress?
Yes it was, and I have played several full loot pvp games before but none of them gave the same fear of losing a fight like EVE did.
Any style of PvP whether open world, full loot or anything that actually promotes griefing instead of fair encounters is specifically designed for sociopaths. That being said, I enjoy PvP when it's designed properly, such as Dark Age of Camelot. The moment I hear people complain about not being able to murder other players when and where ever they so choose, I suspect deep antisocial and unempathetic issues.
um no.
That's not to say that there aren't sociopaths who play them. Just like video games aren't just for man boys who live in some basement getting fat off junk food. Oh sure, there are some, but they appeal to reasonable people as well.
Define reasonable people who enjoy griefing? The irony within that argument.
Not everyone who plays an open world pvp griefs. That's the issue with your argument. Just because there is a group of people who take advantage of that doesn't mean everyone does.
Hope that helps.
It doesn't have to be everyone. One person that uses PvP to grief others spoils it for all. It tarnishes the representation that you make FOR PvP because it is BAD for those that do not like to be griefed.
Look, I am not against PvPers. I am against griefers. If PvP had a way to police those that grief just to grief I would be fully on the side of the PvP coin. Since I have yet to see any sort or policing of griefers, I just can't get fully behind PvP.
Any style of PvP whether open world, full loot or anything that actually promotes griefing instead of fair encounters is specifically designed for sociopaths. That being said, I enjoy PvP when it's designed properly, such as Dark Age of Camelot. The moment I hear people complain about not being able to murder other players when and where ever they so choose, I suspect deep antisocial and unempathetic issues.
um no.
That's not to say that there aren't sociopaths who play them. Just like video games aren't just for man boys who live in some basement getting fat off junk food. Oh sure, there are some, but they appeal to reasonable people as well.
Define reasonable people who enjoy griefing? The irony within that argument.
Not everyone who plays an open world pvp griefs. That's the issue with your argument. Just because there is a group of people who take advantage of that doesn't mean everyone does.
Hope that helps.
Sure, but as one of those types of PvPers, I have NEVER found an open world PvP MMO or PvP anything that didn't have a plethora of toxic trolls or cheaters. Which means there must be a reason those types of games attract so many deviants. Oh that's right, player freedom. If there is one thing that will ALWAYS screw up a good PvP game, it's the players.
you say it like there was not asses on a pve game, I stoped playing in pve only servers when the pve peeps started to agro mobs to toss then on you, or when they block your path so you can't kill mobs and almost dieing because of it, at the very least on pvp you can kill the idiot later and then camp and grief him or his body just to piss him, since he was nice to start this sh!t, against the pve peeps you kinda couldn't do much
Any style of PvP whether open world, full loot or anything that actually promotes griefing instead of fair encounters is specifically designed for sociopaths. That being said, I enjoy PvP when it's designed properly, such as Dark Age of Camelot. The moment I hear people complain about not being able to murder other players when and where ever they so choose, I suspect deep antisocial and unempathetic issues.
um no.
That's not to say that there aren't sociopaths who play them. Just like video games aren't just for man boys who live in some basement getting fat off junk food. Oh sure, there are some, but they appeal to reasonable people as well.
Define reasonable people who enjoy griefing? The irony within that argument.
Not everyone who plays an open world pvp griefs. That's the issue with your argument. Just because there is a group of people who take advantage of that doesn't mean everyone does.
Hope that helps.
Sure, but as one of those types of PvPers, I have NEVER found an open world PvP MMO or PvP anything that didn't have a plethora of toxic trolls or cheaters. Which means there must be a reason those types of games attract so many deviants. Oh that's right, player freedom. If there is one thing that will ALWAYS screw up a good PvP game, it's the players.
you say it like there was not asses on a pve game, I stoped playing in pve only servers when the pve peeps started to agro mobs to toss then on you, or when they block your path so you can't kill mobs and almost dieing because of it, at the very least on pvp you can kill the idiot later and then camp and grief him or his body just to piss him, since he was nice to start this sh!t, against the pve peeps you kinda couldn't do much
There's several issues with grief in non-PvP games like that. UO had kill stealing, loot robbing (there was a macro that allowed them to take it all before you could grab anything), messing up events with spamming and all sorts of idiot tactics, dragging Demons through Gates into cities where AFK players were eaten as they slept, blocking door ways in NPC shops, all sorts of things.
That's one reason to have PvP available. But how do you allow open PvP and not have massive griefing? A solid Justice System that basically allows a few "kills" per week, a quota of sorts. And then, beyond that, the Justice is meted out with a heavy hand.
Sure, but as one of those types of PvPers, I have NEVER found an open world PvP MMO or PvP anything that didn't have a plethora of toxic trolls or cheaters. Which means there must be a reason those types of games attract so many deviants. Oh that's right, player freedom. If there is one thing that will ALWAYS screw up a good PvP game, it's the players
I don't disagree but over the years I've found out that there are pve players who also fall into that same bucket.
I've had, in lord of the rings online of all things, players get pissy and just wipe out all the mobs in my area (was a champion and I play a guardian so my killing speed is a lot slower) because they insisted that this was "their" area.
I had a group of players come through (same game) and do the same thing just for kicks.
I've grouped with people who were just there for me to do the work. Then they would, I suppose, walk away from their keyboard, once for 30 minutes.
There are bad people in all these games. The nerd rage whether you are a pvp player or a pve player can get pretty strong. If you want to say that pvp games attract that type of player I'll raise you that statement and say that video games attract that sort of person. ? ? ? Maybe video games quicken "The Dorkening?" Or ...
... is it that there are just bad players/people no matter what type of game you play or activity you pursue.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Sure, but as one of those types of PvPers, I have NEVER found an open world PvP MMO or PvP anything that didn't have a plethora of toxic trolls or cheaters. Which means there must be a reason those types of games attract so many deviants. Oh that's right, player freedom. If there is one thing that will ALWAYS screw up a good PvP game, it's the players
I don't disagree but over the years I've found out that there are pve players who also fall into that same bucket.
I've had, in lord of the rings online of all things, players get pissy and just wipe out all the mobs in my area (was a champion and I play a guardian so my killing speed is a lot slower) because they insisted that this was "their" area.
I had a group of players come through (same game) and do the same thing just for kicks.
I've grouped with people who were just there for me to do the work. Then they would, I suppose, walk away from their keyboard, once for 30 minutes.
There are bad people in all these games. The nerd rage whether you are a pvp player or a pve player can get pretty strong. If you want to say that pvp games attract that type of player I'll raise you that statement and say that video games attract that sort of person. ? ? ? Maybe video games quicken "The Dorkening?" Or ...
... is it that there are just bad players/people no matter what type of game you play or activity you pursue.
Well, I'm sure we are both speaking from experience and I agree, assholes exist in every gaming format. I just find PvP games tend to attract more of them than PvE games.
I would offer that there are probably the same amount of people it's just that pvp games allow for those people to inflict themselves on others much easier.
And "yeah" I think the Archeage system should be expanded as it was a step in the right direction
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Sure, but as one of those types of PvPers, I have NEVER found an open world PvP MMO or PvP anything that didn't have a plethora of toxic trolls or cheaters. Which means there must be a reason those types of games attract so many deviants. Oh that's right, player freedom. If there is one thing that will ALWAYS screw up a good PvP game, it's the players
I don't disagree but over the years I've found out that there are pve players who also fall into that same bucket.
I've had, in lord of the rings online of all things, players get pissy and just wipe out all the mobs in my area (was a champion and I play a guardian so my killing speed is a lot slower) because they insisted that this was "their" area.
I had a group of players come through (same game) and do the same thing just for kicks.
I've grouped with people who were just there for me to do the work. Then they would, I suppose, walk away from their keyboard, once for 30 minutes.
There are bad people in all these games. The nerd rage whether you are a pvp player or a pve player can get pretty strong. If you want to say that pvp games attract that type of player I'll raise you that statement and say that video games attract that sort of person. ? ? ? Maybe video games quicken "The Dorkening?" Or ...
... is it that there are just bad players/people no matter what type of game you play or activity you pursue.
Well, I'm sure we are both speaking from experience and I agree, assholes exist in every gaming format. I just find PvP games tend to attract more of them than PvE games. There were games, such as ArcheAge who introduced the Crime and Justice system. It wasn't a perfect system by any means, but definitely a step in the right direction. Problem is, game developers are SUPER lazy and don't want to invest time and resources into something like this. I just view fans of PvP enjoying it because of the added freedom, to be criminals or murderers. The problem is, most games have no avenue of repercussion for the victims, other than gathering up a group of players capable of dealing with the situation which ends up feeling like you need to hire a babysitter just to play the game.
Anyhow, systems like what ArcheAge had in place in my opinion are crucial elements to not only create a more fair game, but also a game that's far more realistic. This is why I said current open world and full loot PvP games are designed for sociopaths. There's literally no justice system or means to combating the type of asinine behavior that makes up a decent portion of the PvP community.
I'm not sure what their system was like, but it sounds like it's in the right direction. Most of the earlier versions had some system that actually played into the PvPers game. Jail, for example, always had "escape." Designers seem to have a soft spot for the PvPers, which is ok, except that it ignores the game killing problems it brings.
Why did Cain kill Abel? Why do hunters shoot animals with high powered riflescat very long range? Who can explain the sociopaths amongst us?
You aren't really trying to assert that Hunters are sociopaths...are you? you're smarter than that.
But for discussion purposes, hunters also use Bows, which I prefer, but being perfectly honest, I feel a lot better about all the humans I have shot through the course of my life than the animals.
To the actual point of the thread, I enjoy PvP for the challenge I do not, however, look down upon people that prefer PvE, different strokes for different folks.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
PvP went from something fun on the weekends, to lame e-sports garbage or cheaters. Most games there is little to fight for but epeen bragging rights, or it's repetitive. I liked base busting in SWG, each profession played a key role in in the event. I think a game should build off that concept and take it a bit further than the survival game lite.
I can only speak as a fan of faction PvP. I like realm loyalty and epic large scale wars. It's not so much that it's PvP, but rather that all of these people are interacting and fighting an unpredictable foe that shares their objectives. And the faction politics are interesting. It gives these games life, and serves as a great pacebreaker when the PvE side grows repetitive. Most importantly, it's an experience that you cannot find in any other genre. You can get better PvE in a single player RPG. You can grief people in a trash survival game. Even dynamic PvE content is becoming a staple of the MMO-lite space. Realm vs. Realm PvP is unique to the MMO.
I'm not a fan of arena PvP (usually), because the objectives don't tend to be compelling like they are for a MOBA.
I'm not a fan of free for all PvP, because non-consensual PvP isn't competitive; it's inconvenient at best and outright harassment at worst.
As for your concept of PvE-only faction wars, I'd certainly enjoy that. It's not an entirely new idea. Just an uncommon one. Firefall tried it (until it changed its mind).
I pretty much agree and think this sums up all the same reasons for me. The only difference being that I do like arena PVP games like CS:GO, RainbowSix:Siege, etc.
I only pvp if the game's pve is boring. I don't want story lines like everyone else. Stories are cliche. Yep good guy vs villain again yawn. Wish I could play some real dnd shyt like the first three novels of RA Salvator's Drizzt series. That is what I love about drow. No one is the good guy. It's ashole against ashole and may the biggest hole win. Every game has a boring story that makes me hate the main characters more. Just shut up and let me play. Don't make me hate my own character by dragging it into your story. So yeah pvp I hate but I'll do it when a game makes me do dumbass pve stuff.
I only pvp if the game's pve is boring. I don't want story lines like everyone else. Stories are cliche. Yep good guy vs villain again yawn. Wish I could play some real dnd shyt like the first three novels of RA Salvator's Drizzt series. That is what I love about drow. No one is the good guy. It's ashole against ashole and may the biggest hole win. Every game has a boring story that makes me hate the main characters more. Just shut up and let me play. Don't make me hate my own character by dragging it into your story. So yeah pvp I hate but I'll do it when a game makes me do dumbass pve stuff.
I also think it's hard to create a good and coherent main story in an MMO, so I'd gladly skip that and have a "world story" where nobody is the main character
Any style of PvP whether open world, full loot or anything that actually promotes griefing instead of fair encounters is specifically designed for sociopaths. That being said, I enjoy PvP when it's designed properly, such as Dark Age of Camelot. The moment I hear people complain about not being able to murder other players when and where ever they so choose, I suspect deep antisocial and unempathetic issues.
um no.
That's not to say that there aren't sociopaths who play them. Just like video games aren't just for man boys who live in some basement getting fat off junk food. Oh sure, there are some, but they appeal to reasonable people as well.
Define reasonable people who enjoy griefing? The irony within that argument.
Not everyone who plays an open world pvp griefs. That's the issue with your argument. Just because there is a group of people who take advantage of that doesn't mean everyone does.
Hope that helps.
Sure, but as one of those types of PvPers, I have NEVER found an open world PvP MMO or PvP anything that didn't have a plethora of toxic trolls or cheaters. Which means there must be a reason those types of games attract so many deviants. Oh that's right, player freedom. If there is one thing that will ALWAYS screw up a good PvP game, it's the players.
you say it like there was not asses on a pve game, I stoped playing in pve only servers when the pve peeps started to agro mobs to toss then on you, or when they block your path so you can't kill mobs and almost dieing because of it, at the very least on pvp you can kill the idiot later and then camp and grief him or his body just to piss him, since he was nice to start this sh!t, against the pve peeps you kinda couldn't do much
There's several issues with grief in non-PvP games like that. UO had kill stealing, loot robbing (there was a macro that allowed them to take it all before you could grab anything), messing up events with spamming and all sorts of idiot tactics, dragging Demons through Gates into cities where AFK players were eaten as they slept, blocking door ways in NPC shops, all sorts of things.
That's one reason to have PvP available. But how do you allow open PvP and not have massive griefing? A solid Justice System that basically allows a few "kills" per week, a quota of sorts. And then, beyond that, the Justice is meted out with a heavy hand.
I think an in-game Justice system is basically a farce. I came to this conclusion after a lot of studying the problem in the early 2000s. Nothing really has changed since then. Most every system can be easily defeated by logging to an alt, or simply logging off. Every Justice system I've ever heard of punishes the character but not the player (person). Therefore, there can be no real in-game punishment and has no social weight, since the player (person) exists outside the game. You can lock up a character all you like, but the perpetrator is happily working the same mischief with another character. Punishment to the character does not serve as a detriment to anti-social behavior; there is no hand heavy enough.
The only way I could think of to actually punish bad behavior of the player (person) was to go out-of-game -- put an automatic per incident charge on the perpetrator's credit card. This requires several specific requirements, requiring a valid credit card every time they log on. In order to keep from being able to switch accounts, the game would need to go through some gymnastics, by polling the credit card provider for the billing address (which all cards require and usually can't be a PO Box) then doing duplicate address rejection. One person may have several cards, but they usually are going to have a single residence.
It's not a foolproof system. There are ways around this system if someone is really determined to circumvent this system. This kind of basic system should put some real teeth into a 'Justice' system, as it directly associated a real-world fiscal punishment with in-game activity.
I even toyed with the idea of splitting the charge between the 'victim' and the company. I never really came up with a good system for dealing with families wanting to play together. Ultimately, this entire idea was dropped, as I thought it would be unpopular. However, with the prevalence of whales and the market's leniency with far less straightforward transactions (things which I never dreamed of in 2002-2003), it might actually be workable.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Any style of PvP whether open world, full loot or anything that actually promotes griefing instead of fair encounters is specifically designed for sociopaths. That being said, I enjoy PvP when it's designed properly, such as Dark Age of Camelot. The moment I hear people complain about not being able to murder other players when and where ever they so choose, I suspect deep antisocial and unempathetic issues.
um no.
That's not to say that there aren't sociopaths who play them. Just like video games aren't just for man boys who live in some basement getting fat off junk food. Oh sure, there are some, but they appeal to reasonable people as well.
Define reasonable people who enjoy griefing? The irony within that argument.
Not everyone who plays an open world pvp griefs. That's the issue with your argument. Just because there is a group of people who take advantage of that doesn't mean everyone does.
Hope that helps.
Sure, but as one of those types of PvPers, I have NEVER found an open world PvP MMO or PvP anything that didn't have a plethora of toxic trolls or cheaters. Which means there must be a reason those types of games attract so many deviants. Oh that's right, player freedom. If there is one thing that will ALWAYS screw up a good PvP game, it's the players.
you say it like there was not asses on a pve game, I stoped playing in pve only servers when the pve peeps started to agro mobs to toss then on you, or when they block your path so you can't kill mobs and almost dieing because of it, at the very least on pvp you can kill the idiot later and then camp and grief him or his body just to piss him, since he was nice to start this sh!t, against the pve peeps you kinda couldn't do much
There's several issues with grief in non-PvP games like that. UO had kill stealing, loot robbing (there was a macro that allowed them to take it all before you could grab anything), messing up events with spamming and all sorts of idiot tactics, dragging Demons through Gates into cities where AFK players were eaten as they slept, blocking door ways in NPC shops, all sorts of things.
That's one reason to have PvP available. But how do you allow open PvP and not have massive griefing? A solid Justice System that basically allows a few "kills" per week, a quota of sorts. And then, beyond that, the Justice is meted out with a heavy hand.
I think an in-game Justice system is basically a farce. I came to this conclusion after a lot of studying the problem in the early 2000s. Nothing really has changed since then. Most every system can be easily defeated by logging to an alt, or simply logging off. Every Justice system I've ever heard of punishes the character but not the player (person). Therefore, there can be no real in-game punishment and has no social weight, since the player (person) exists outside the game. You can lock up a character all you like, but the perpetrator is happily working the same mischief with another character. Punishment to the character does not serve as a detriment to anti-social behavior; there is no hand heavy enough.
The only way I could think of to actually punish bad behavior of the player (person) was to go out-of-game -- put an automatic per incident charge on the perpetrator's credit card. This requires several specific requirements, requiring a valid credit card every time they log on. In order to keep from being able to switch accounts, the game would need to go through some gymnastics, by polling the credit card provider for the billing address (which all cards require and usually can't be a PO Box) then doing duplicate address rejection. One person may have several cards, but they usually are going to have a single residence.
It's not a foolproof system. There are ways around this system if someone is really determined to circumvent this system. This kind of basic system should put some real teeth into a 'Justice' system, as it directly associated a real-world fiscal punishment with in-game activity.
I even toyed with the idea of splitting the charge between the 'victim' and the company. I never really came up with a good system for dealing with families wanting to play together. Ultimately, this entire idea was dropped, as I thought it would be unpopular. However, with the prevalence of whales and the market's leniency with far less straightforward transactions (things which I never dreamed of in 2002-2003), it might actually be workable.
Mendel, there is no way a company can punish the player outside of the game, or access to the game. Just can't do something like that legally. But you can punish the character, and that will work, IF YOU DON'T GIVE THEM WAYS OUT OF THE PUNISHMENT. NO one has done that. Not one game. Jails have escapes, stat loss has workarounds. It's been the biggest detriment to OW PvP, allowing rampant PKing to drive masses of players away from the games, and the hurt bottom line says remove OW PvP, or else the company's bottom line continues to suffer.
I've told the story of UO many times. It almost worked, and I saw it almost work, and you were around here to read that story. It was one element away, something that was supposed to be there but wasn't, and I firmly believe that an internal difference of opinion was the cause. Not a bug as claimed.
Just like you, there are many others, people who simply refuse to see the answer. I have no comprehension of that, why, how, that gamers just won't see it. Not "can't", WON'T. Just WON'T. And I'm not going to explain the evidence again, screw it. It's a done story that won't change unless someone has the balls to do it. And there seems to be none like that in the MMO world.
So we all will live with either the ganking, or the cheap griefing, or the current status quo of hard walls that break immersion. There is no other option. And that's on all of you. (Not that any of you care.)
Comments
They just traded PLEX for ISK to fund their activities.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
That's not to say that there aren't sociopaths who play them. Just like video games aren't just for man boys who live in some basement getting fat off junk food. Oh sure, there are some, but they appeal to reasonable people as well.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Hope that helps.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Does PvE really need to be predictable, based on bosses that takes forever to be killed by doing the same rotation without messing up?
I think something different, without thinking about crazy quantum computer technologies and stuff like that, could be done.
Maybe I don't have enough faith in the players to keep creating and playng something in a fun way and not trying to push the system.
In my (not that big) experience of PvP with capture points etc I've seen many times that people prefer to run in opposite direction to conquer points and avoiding direct fights with the other team/ faction, this is a specific issue that could probably be resolved in many ways but its core make me think that without some guidance from "the system" expecting a game to work well is something of a gamble.
I don't know where you live, but here in Italy soccer is very popular and groups of friends, who usually start playng in a team when they're very young and quit in their late teens, they develop the habit of organizing soccer matches among friends, maybe once a week.
Traditional soccer is played 11 vs 11, the most popular version played by friends is the 5 vs 5, which is still hard to organize and prone to failure.
Imagine having a decent game with a decent number of players with the right attitude, that can play it with a certain level of constance, are somehow able to fight and cooperate properly.
Imagine now that you have tho triple that to make a 3 factions open world PvP (cause 2 is not enough and you risk unbalance etc) and make it work for everybody.
It's not utopia, people tell me it's been done greatly in Daoc and Planetside iirc, but it's still a gamble.
The Robotic Hive will develop strongholds over areas that are rich in resources needed for manufacturing. Some of the weaker bastions can be taken on single handedly, but to go after bigger targets you really need to group up with other players. The strength of these 'nerve centers' depends on how much territory they control: you have to be somewhat picky about your battles. Going right for a decapitating strike will easily backfire if you haven't subverted the enemy's foundation, first.
NPC pirates ("unrats") will lay ambushes along choke points in unmonitored space, and will wreak havoc on poorly defended shipping endeavors. Their AI is such that they will run back to their hidden mothership if you give them a "shellacking"; you can then follow them to discover the location of their fleet, and "dive bomb" their carrier with Raptors and the like. If you are successful, space becomes much safer for a time.
Fighting the unrats isn't like fighting the Hive; different strategies are required.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
Yes it was, and I have played several full loot pvp games before but none of them gave the same fear of losing a fight like EVE did.
Look, I am not against PvPers. I am against griefers. If PvP had a way to police those that grief just to grief I would be fully on the side of the PvP coin. Since I have yet to see any sort or policing of griefers, I just can't get fully behind PvP.
Let's party like it is 1863!
you say it like there was not asses on a pve game, I stoped playing in pve only servers when the pve peeps started to agro mobs to toss then on you, or when they block your path so you can't kill mobs and almost dieing because of it, at the very least on pvp you can kill the idiot later and then camp and grief him or his body just to piss him, since he was nice to start this sh!t, against the pve peeps you kinda couldn't do much
1) It is human nature to compare ourselves to other people.
2) Fight or flight. It is basic human nature to be the hunter or the gatherer.
UO had kill stealing, loot robbing (there was a macro that allowed them to take it all before you could grab anything), messing up events with spamming and all sorts of idiot tactics, dragging Demons through Gates into cities where AFK players were eaten as they slept, blocking door ways in NPC shops, all sorts of things.
That's one reason to have PvP available. But how do you allow open PvP and not have massive griefing?
A solid Justice System that basically allows a few "kills" per week, a quota of sorts.
And then, beyond that, the Justice is meted out with a heavy hand.
Once upon a time....
I've had, in lord of the rings online of all things, players get pissy and just wipe out all the mobs in my area (was a champion and I play a guardian so my killing speed is a lot slower) because they insisted that this was "their" area.
I had a group of players come through (same game) and do the same thing just for kicks.
I've grouped with people who were just there for me to do the work. Then they would, I suppose, walk away from their keyboard, once for 30 minutes.
There are bad people in all these games. The nerd rage whether you are a pvp player or a pve player can get pretty strong. If you want to say that pvp games attract that type of player I'll raise you that statement and say that video games attract that sort of person. ? ? ? Maybe video games quicken "The Dorkening?" Or ...
... is it that there are just bad players/people no matter what type of game you play or activity you pursue.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
And "yeah" I think the Archeage system should be expanded as it was a step in the right direction
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Most of the earlier versions had some system that actually played into the PvPers game.
Jail, for example, always had "escape." Designers seem to have a soft spot for the PvPers, which is ok, except that it ignores the game killing problems it brings.
Once upon a time....
But for discussion purposes, hunters also use Bows, which I prefer, but being perfectly honest, I feel a lot better about all the humans I have shot through the course of my life than the animals.
To the actual point of the thread, I enjoy PvP for the challenge I do not, however, look down upon people that prefer PvE, different strokes for different folks.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
I pretty much agree and think this sums up all the same reasons for me. The only difference being that I do like arena PVP games like CS:GO, RainbowSix:Siege, etc.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Just can't do something like that legally.
But you can punish the character, and that will work, IF YOU DON'T GIVE THEM WAYS OUT OF THE PUNISHMENT.
NO one has done that. Not one game. Jails have escapes, stat loss has workarounds.
It's been the biggest detriment to OW PvP, allowing rampant PKing to drive masses of players away from the games, and the hurt bottom line says remove OW PvP, or else the company's bottom line continues to suffer.
I've told the story of UO many times. It almost worked, and I saw it almost work, and you were around here to read that story. It was one element away, something that was supposed to be there but wasn't, and I firmly believe that an internal difference of opinion was the cause. Not a bug as claimed.
Just like you, there are many others, people who simply refuse to see the answer. I have no comprehension of that, why, how, that gamers just won't see it. Not "can't", WON'T. Just WON'T.
And I'm not going to explain the evidence again, screw it. It's a done story that won't change unless someone has the balls to do it. And there seems to be none like that in the MMO world.
So we all will live with either the ganking, or the cheap griefing, or the current status quo of hard walls that break immersion. There is no other option. And that's on all of you. (Not that any of you care.)
That's my gift of honesty. Merry XMas.
Once upon a time....