I hope nobody believes this story about better freedom.
This is all about money and how deep down the rabbit hole it goes,nobody knows. We should be reminded of Epstein leaves Columbus Nova then buys it ...lol,then SOE is sold to Nova but not really ,Epstein owns it.However there is a LOT more to the entire picture,like so much more it makes my head spin.
We are talking in the billions ,maybe trillions of dollars and why anyone and everyone tried to separate themselves from Viktor the Ogliarch because he was being investigated and assets frozen.
Yeah sure there is some,like a very small something going on with Epstein and some of the sketchy investments,but are they really investments or is there much more to it?
IMO when you are talking very big players,very big $$$ signs,there is a very long trail of corruption.
DBG will exist because the big players want it to not because they need it to or hope it makes it big as a gaming business.It will continue to look like a legit gaming business for likely quite some time.I just hope i am still alive one day to read the final story behind all of this because this will be a journalists wet dream,a very big story one day.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I'm just speculating here but... the company isn't making much profit, and now they split into three studios located in high cost states.
Brace for impact.
I speculate that’s where you’re wrong, “Daybreak” is a private equity company through and through. The have been stripping what the want and killing what they don’t from day one... from daybreak?
Does anyone really know who DBG is and what their intent is?
What this business is on paper could be miles away from what is really going on OR what has gone on in the past with departures,hiring,partners etc etc.When we are talking Columbus Nova/Epstein,ties to Donald Trump's lawyer,other hush money,many other big players there is a long list of $$$$ moving about all over the place.
Most,maybe ALL of these ties/businesses are sketchy,claimed to be run by Americans but are being used to move money around for various reasons.
NOBODY can tell me the Ogliarch was involved and these other players are not somehow on the sketchy side of things not knowing or understanding who they were in cahoots with. These big players/businesses know exactly who and what kind of money is moving around and for what purposes.NONE of these people are innocent ANGEL investors,just lending a helping hand to needy businesses.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
It just means they'll be able to shutter one studio/section at a time.
This is all my opinion
Dimensional Ink Games gonna be the first to go, followed by Rogue Planet, and then they'll probably bobble along riding the coattails Darkpaw.
This was just a measure to extend some life and discard the games that are not making money - just my 2c
Your statement is not incorrect.... but we are not there yet.
This is an attempt to unwind the abysmal cost accounting that was done by SOE/Daybreak. Separating the assets into stand alone studios is an effort to finally get the costs of operations and development for each product under control. (At this time) this is more about changing the culture and management style for these companies. If they cant change, they will end up being closed.
Yes ...... and no.
When DBG was created a cost focused culture will have been introduced. Why EQN was closed for example.
With only c. 250 staff though shared services will probably have been maintained. Finance, HR, Corporate (the CEO salary etc.). These costs - known as indirects - will have been covered by all the games.
As games closed though the % of the indirect costs borne by the remaining games will - ultimately - have gone up. Assume the CEO's salary was covered by 10 games say each paying 10%. Then 2 of the games closed. CEO will still expect to be paid - so the 8 left will have to pay 12.5%.
Splitting into 3 "companies" means the "indirect" shared services will be split between the remaining game units and the costs will become direct.
A good thing? With only c. 250 employees after the takeover sharing the costs probably made sense. If HR needs 4 people, say, then each unit could cover the costs for 1.33 people. If HR costs become direct - each unit may have to cover 2 people.
On Holly's FB post she mentioned the Darkpaw staff actually growing. I hope this is true.
Out of the people still alive who could head up EQ I am glad it's Holly.
What does this mean though?
If previously - see above - there were X people working directly on Everquest and Y people working indirectly in support of Everquest then:
- see above - splitting the indirect staff (HR, Finance etc.) between the game units will increase the number of direct staff from X to (nominally) X+Y.
So the Darkpaw (i.e. EQ) staff will go up. The total number of people though may not - or could even have gone down.
I'm just speculating here but... the company isn't making much profit, and now they split into three studios located in high cost states.
Brace for impact.
I speculate that’s where you’re wrong, “Daybreak” is a private equity company through and through. The have been stripping what the want and killing what they don’t from day one... from daybreak?
Not exactly. DBG isn't a private equity company of course simply bought by - lets say a private equity company/person. (The saga of did CN but it etc.)
Nothing to strip though. Basically a case of close what was obviously loss making on day 1 then close the rest as they ceased to be profitable. If, at the end of the day, the purchaser(s) make more than they paid Sony and then some obviously its a win.
While naysayers have their rightful opinions, I view this as only good. If they are restructuring assets to make them easier to sell and more appealing to buyers, that's good... If they are finally providing the attention and funding their franchises deserve, that's also good.
The EQ franchise hiring more developers can only be a good thing... even if the end result is a mobile game (which is horribly unlikely).
I think this would put them in a good spot to sell off certain "studios" that aren't doing well. Id love to see the studio managing EQ sold off, id imagine that would be a viable asset to make $$ off of and a solid buy for someone.
It just means they'll be able to shutter one studio/section at a time.
This is all my opinion
Dimensional Ink Games gonna be the first to go, followed by Rogue Planet, and then they'll probably bobble along riding the coattails Darkpaw.
This was just a measure to extend some life and discard the games that are not making money - just my 2c
Well aren't you cynical.
Buying a game studio so that you can shut it down doesn't seem like a very good way to make money. So I'm pretty sure that that wasn't their intention in purchasing SOE.
While naysayers have their rightful opinions, I view this as only good. If they are restructuring assets to make them easier to sell and more appealing to buyers, that's good... If they are finally providing the attention and funding their franchises deserve, that's also good.
The EQ franchise hiring more developers can only be a good thing... even if the end result is a mobile game (which is horribly unlikely).
You will find that very few people here discuss/argue from a foundation of fact. It's all speculation, wild conjecture, and of course opinions. I am a pro DBG gamer, although I did lose a lot of faith when they started development on the most recent debacle. I hope this news means good things however, like some I am not as optimistic as I once was.
Sort of hope for the best, expect the worst situation I guess is what I am saying.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
I was only surprised they split the companies by IP, and not by whatever flavor-of-the-month game genre was hot at the moment. How many different directions did H1Z1 take? Or maybe that was just SOE/Smedley at the helm...
Come to think of it, since being aquired by DBG, everything seems to have quieted way down and they are no longer chasing whatever FOTM cash cow is out there.... or maybe it's just because they are already on the Battle Royale gravy train and Auto Chess hasn't picked up enough for them to develop for yet.
It just means they'll be able to shutter one studio/section at a time.
This is all my opinion
Dimensional Ink Games gonna be the first to go, followed by Rogue Planet, and then they'll probably bobble along riding the coattails Darkpaw.
This was just a measure to extend some life and discard the games that are not making money - just my 2c
Well aren't you cynical.
Buying a game studio so that you can shut it down doesn't seem like a very good way to make money. So I'm pretty sure that that wasn't their intention in purchasing SOE.
They already own all 3 games - they just separated each product into its own studio entity.
Usually when companies do this its tor for fiscal accountability- as in the other 2 games cant bail out one failing game - which allows them to shutter one down without impacting others.
I mean... This isn't true. Unless you believe they have a 5 year old doing their accounting.
From a semi-cynical business point of view, making this move now makes it easier for Daybreak to allocate investment based on performance without outright shutting down titles that are under performing. Essentially it's a situation where if planetside is making money, then planetside gets the benefits of that, while DCUO doesn't. It also probably makes it easier for Daybreak to divest business units later on - for example if they decided they wanted to cash out on the EQ franchise and sell it to someone else at some point.
As to whether this is good or bad for Daybreak's games - I honestly don't know. While I think it's great that the new sub-studios are going to be focused on specific franchises, will they have the financial freedom to do what they feel is needed? And more importantly, will they have the capital to fund new development within their franchises?
We seem to be on the cusp of a resurgence of new development in MMORPG markets - led by the indie studios like VR and others, but even the bigger established studios are starting to announce new games recently. If the people at Darkpaw, etc. aren't working on new titles to try and secure their future over the next few years, they're likely to eventually get left behind.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It just means they'll be able to shutter one studio/section at a time.
This is all my opinion
Dimensional Ink Games gonna be the first to go, followed by Rogue Planet, and then they'll probably bobble along riding the coattails Darkpaw.
This was just a measure to extend some life and discard the games that are not making money - just my 2c
Well aren't you cynical.
Buying a game studio so that you can shut it down doesn't seem like a very good way to make money. So I'm pretty sure that that wasn't their intention in purchasing SOE.
Your mistake is in thinking they bought a "game studio". You need to think as "the buyer previously known as CN" will have done.
Some made up but right ball park numbers to illustrate.
Under Sony: Revenue $45M. Operating costs $25M, development costs $25M. Loss $5M. Note: Made up numbers but Sony did write off $20M game development costs incurred over c. 3 prior years, mostly attributed to SoE, in their formal results, just before they sold SoE.
CN look at the books. Simple plan: cut development to almost zero, streamline operations, close games as they cease to be profitable.
They game theory future possibilities and come up with: Year 1 revenue falls to $38; costs cut to $25M. Year 2 revenue $30M; costs $20M Year 3 revenue $20M, costs $15M Year 4 revenue $12M; costs $10M Year 5 revenue $8M; costs $7M
Based on this they agree to buy SoE for $7M. (A number banded around at the time).
Based on: expected profit over 5 years after cost of purchase: $24M Risk: very low - purchase cost recovered in c. 6 months. - studio can be closed if it starts to lose money Potential upsides: - year of EQN etc. new cheap mobile games etc - IP possibilities, subject to any clauses agreed with Sony - possible sale of studio.
And we know that staff were cut to low 200s after take over, games have been closed, more staff have been let go.
Yes it won't be as simple as laid out above but whilst they won't have bought SoE to "simply" close it down first and foremost they will have bought it for its revenue stream. And the potential ROI. And with no serious development planned and the intent of closing games down as they stop making money the closure of the studio - that will result in the demise of the studio. And if a phoenix rises - well that is part of the upside bonus profit.
And these recent changes - probably doing away with "all" indirect costs - fits the big picture. Unlike Sony "CN" will not run up a loss - this move underlines this.
It just means they'll be able to shutter one studio/section at a time.
This is all my opinion
Dimensional Ink Games gonna be the first to go, followed by Rogue Planet, and then they'll probably bobble along riding the coattails Darkpaw.
This was just a measure to extend some life and discard the games that are not making money - just my 2c
Well aren't you cynical.
Buying a game studio so that you can shut it down doesn't seem like a very good way to make money. So I'm pretty sure that that wasn't their intention in purchasing SOE.
They already own all 3 games - they just separated each product into its own studio entity.
Usually when companies do this its tor for fiscal accountability- as in the other 2 games cant bail out one failing game - which allows them to shutter one down without impacting others.
I mean... This isn't true. Unless you believe they have a 5 year old doing their accounting.
What @DMKano means is "greater fiscal accountability".
As you imply there will have been accountability before. Each "game grouping" will (probably) have been responsible for the costs of the people working directly on the game and will have shared the costs of people working indirectly on the game.
You share some costs because potentially its cheaper. Why - for example - the studios were moved early on into a single building. One lease cheaper than many leases!
Despite these earlier savings, and game closures, and efficiencies the teams will have been asked to make if revenue has fallen, the "central pot" out of which all costs are paid must be looking empty. Potentially DBG could start to make a loss.
Setting up "mini-companies" responsible for all - ? - their own costs is the ultimate put feet to the fire test. Now your revenue pays your salaries. Come up with a way to do your job and that of the person you are sat next to if you still want to get paid. Fail - you have only yourself to blame for the studio closing.
I cannot forgive or forget what Daybreak did to Landmark and its amazing community .
They will be forgiven only if they bring back the EQ2/Landmark project.
Well if Landmark was making $ - it would be around, the thing is it wasn't.
You can have a good/decent game that is not popular - and that's the kiss of death.
Devs would rather have a popular shite game - that is making $$$ that a good game that nobody plays.
Actually Landmark was supposed to be a testbed to the EQNext project. So when they canceled EQNext, Landmark went along with it. It's not a fact as to whether or not it was making money to them, even tho people actually bought founders packs and other things from the cash store. As an old player of Landmark it makes me hate Daybreak.
It just means they'll be able to shutter one studio/section at a time.
This is all my opinion
Dimensional Ink Games gonna be the first to go, followed by Rogue Planet, and then they'll probably bobble along riding the coattails Darkpaw.
This was just a measure to extend some life and discard the games that are not making money - just my 2c
Your statement is not incorrect.... but we are not there yet.
This is an attempt to unwind the abysmal cost accounting that was done by SOE/Daybreak. Separating the assets into stand alone studios is an effort to finally get the costs of operations and development for each product under control. (At this time) this is more about changing the culture and management style for these companies. If they cant change, they will end up being closed.
Yep I agree with this - the thing is when you are scraping by - the only way to operate at a break even is to scale down staff.
Scaling down staff is the vulture capitalist way of doing business. Back in the day, companies used to make a real effort to improve product and service quality in order to improve income. Now, executives are too worried about paying investors every last dime of profits and saving for golden parachutes to give a damn about the quality or longevity of their companies.
Instead of shutting it down all at once they can do it in sections now. Awesome. Cheaper to run too as I had to do a similar thing in my non gaming related stuff but same concept.
But I saw the work recruit in there and that usually means good things for the future. Time will tell.
It just means they'll be able to shutter one studio/section at a time.
This is all my opinion
Dimensional Ink Games gonna be the first to go, followed by Rogue Planet, and then they'll probably bobble along riding the coattails Darkpaw.
This was just a measure to extend some life and discard the games that are not making money - just my 2c
Your statement is not incorrect.... but we are not there yet.
This is an attempt to unwind the abysmal cost accounting that was done by SOE/Daybreak. Separating the assets into stand alone studios is an effort to finally get the costs of operations and development for each product under control. (At this time) this is more about changing the culture and management style for these companies. If they cant change, they will end up being closed.
Yes ...... and no.
When DBG was created a cost focused culture will have been introduced. Why EQN was closed for example.
With only c. 250 staff though shared services will probably have been maintained. Finance, HR, Corporate (the CEO salary etc.). These costs - known as indirects - will have been covered by all the games.
As games closed though the % of the indirect costs borne by the remaining games will - ultimately - have gone up. Assume the CEO's salary was covered by 10 games say each paying 10%. Then 2 of the games closed. CEO will still expect to be paid - so the 8 left will have to pay 12.5%.
Splitting into 3 "companies" means the "indirect" shared services will be split between the remaining game units and the costs will become direct.
A good thing? With only c. 250 employees after the takeover sharing the costs probably made sense. If HR needs 4 people, say, then each unit could cover the costs for 1.33 people. If HR costs become direct - each unit may have to cover 2 people.
So this is probably not good news going forward.
Sadly this is not true. When DBG was created they were forced to drop some of their 'speculative' publishing/development, and to focus on a much smaller list of products, that had business plans that could be more easily explained/justified. However, the 'culture' of the company was still one of a very fluid environment, where assets (and budgets) were 'borrowed' from one product, and used on another.
For a while now there has been a lot of issues around this, and the decision was finally made to separate the companies, and to more rigidly enforce said separation. This is NOT something that is popular within the companie(s), but it is something that needs to be done in order to meet the requirements of the investors. It will take a little while to settle out (and some people are likely going to leave), but eventually it will result in each product being accountable for its own operations and development costs.... which can then be tied to each bottom line.
Comments
This is all about money and how deep down the rabbit hole it goes,nobody knows.
We should be reminded of Epstein leaves Columbus Nova then buys it ...lol,then SOE is sold to Nova but not really ,Epstein owns it.However there is a LOT more to the entire picture,like so much more it makes my head spin.
We are talking in the billions ,maybe trillions of dollars and why anyone and everyone tried to separate themselves from Viktor the Ogliarch because he was being investigated and assets frozen.
Yeah sure there is some,like a very small something going on with Epstein and some of the sketchy investments,but are they really investments or is there much more to it?
IMO when you are talking very big players,very big $$$ signs,there is a very long trail of corruption.
DBG will exist because the big players want it to not because they need it to or hope it makes it big as a gaming business.It will continue to look like a legit gaming business for likely quite some time.I just hope i am still alive one day to read the final story behind all of this because this will be a journalists wet dream,a very big story one day.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
When DBG was created a cost focused culture will have been introduced. Why EQN was closed for example.
With only c. 250 staff though shared services will probably have been maintained. Finance, HR, Corporate (the CEO salary etc.). These costs - known as indirects - will have been covered by all the games.
As games closed though the % of the indirect costs borne by the remaining games will - ultimately - have gone up. Assume the CEO's salary was covered by 10 games say each paying 10%. Then 2 of the games closed. CEO will still expect to be paid - so the 8 left will have to pay 12.5%.
Splitting into 3 "companies" means the "indirect" shared services will be split between the remaining game units and the costs will become direct.
A good thing? With only c. 250 employees after the takeover sharing the costs probably made sense. If HR needs 4 people, say, then each unit could cover the costs for 1.33 people. If HR costs become direct - each unit may have to cover 2 people.
So this is probably not good news going forward.
If previously - see above - there were X people working directly on Everquest and Y people working indirectly in support of Everquest then:
- see above - splitting the indirect staff (HR, Finance etc.) between the game units will increase the number of direct staff from X to (nominally) X+Y.
So the Darkpaw (i.e. EQ) staff will go up. The total number of people though may not - or could even have gone down.
Nothing to strip though. Basically a case of close what was obviously loss making on day 1 then close the rest as they ceased to be profitable. If, at the end of the day, the purchaser(s) make more than they paid Sony and then some obviously its a win.
Not sure even Gamigo would buy these.
(DCUO will be more complex game since it involves DC Comics and WarnerBros - a joint venture.)
The EQ franchise hiring more developers can only be a good thing... even if the end result is a mobile game (which is horribly unlikely).
Buying a game studio so that you can shut it down doesn't seem like a very good way to make money. So I'm pretty sure that that wasn't their intention in purchasing SOE.
Sort of hope for the best, expect the worst situation I guess is what I am saying.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Come to think of it, since being aquired by DBG, everything seems to have quieted way down and they are no longer chasing whatever FOTM cash cow is out there.... or maybe it's just because they are already on the Battle Royale gravy train and Auto Chess hasn't picked up enough for them to develop for yet.
From a semi-cynical business point of view, making this move now makes it easier for Daybreak to allocate investment based on performance without outright shutting down titles that are under performing. Essentially it's a situation where if planetside is making money, then planetside gets the benefits of that, while DCUO doesn't. It also probably makes it easier for Daybreak to divest business units later on - for example if they decided they wanted to cash out on the EQ franchise and sell it to someone else at some point.
As to whether this is good or bad for Daybreak's games - I honestly don't know. While I think it's great that the new sub-studios are going to be focused on specific franchises, will they have the financial freedom to do what they feel is needed? And more importantly, will they have the capital to fund new development within their franchises?
We seem to be on the cusp of a resurgence of new development in MMORPG markets - led by the indie studios like VR and others, but even the bigger established studios are starting to announce new games recently. If the people at Darkpaw, etc. aren't working on new titles to try and secure their future over the next few years, they're likely to eventually get left behind.
"But Kyle" you say, "there are no successful game developers that have ever done similar."
Uhh, yeah, there's a reason for that.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Your mistake is in thinking they bought a "game studio". You need to think as "the buyer previously known as CN" will have done.
Some made up but right ball park numbers to illustrate.
Under Sony: Revenue $45M. Operating costs $25M, development costs $25M. Loss $5M.
Note: Made up numbers but Sony did write off $20M game development costs incurred over c. 3 prior years, mostly attributed to SoE, in their formal results, just before they sold SoE.
CN look at the books. Simple plan: cut development to almost zero, streamline operations, close games as they cease to be profitable.
They game theory future possibilities and come up with:
Year 1 revenue falls to $38; costs cut to $25M.
Year 2 revenue $30M; costs $20M
Year 3 revenue $20M, costs $15M
Year 4 revenue $12M; costs $10M
Year 5 revenue $8M; costs $7M
Based on this they agree to buy SoE for $7M. (A number banded around at the time).
Based on: expected profit over 5 years after cost of purchase: $24M
Risk: very low
- purchase cost recovered in c. 6 months.
- studio can be closed if it starts to lose money
Potential upsides:
- year of EQN etc. new cheap mobile games etc
- IP possibilities, subject to any clauses agreed with Sony
- possible sale of studio.
And we know that staff were cut to low 200s after take over, games have been closed, more staff have been let go.
Yes it won't be as simple as laid out above but whilst they won't have bought SoE to "simply" close it down first and foremost they will have bought it for its revenue stream. And the potential ROI. And with no serious development planned and the intent of closing games down as they stop making money the closure of the studio - that will result in the demise of the studio. And if a phoenix rises - well that is part of the upside bonus profit.
And these recent changes - probably doing away with "all" indirect costs - fits the big picture. Unlike Sony "CN" will not run up a loss - this move underlines this.
MAGA
As you imply there will have been accountability before. Each "game grouping" will (probably) have been responsible for the costs of the people working directly on the game and will have shared the costs of people working indirectly on the game.
You share some costs because potentially its cheaper. Why - for example - the studios were moved early on into a single building. One lease cheaper than many leases!
Despite these earlier savings, and game closures, and efficiencies the teams will have been asked to make if revenue has fallen, the "central pot" out of which all costs are paid must be looking empty. Potentially DBG could start to make a loss.
Setting up "mini-companies" responsible for all - ? - their own costs is the ultimate put feet to the fire test. Now your revenue pays your salaries. Come up with a way to do your job and that of the person you are sat next to if you still want to get paid. Fail - you have only yourself to blame for the studio closing.
Actually Landmark was supposed to be a testbed to the EQNext project. So when they canceled EQNext, Landmark went along with it. It's not a fact as to whether or not it was making money to them, even tho people actually bought founders packs and other things from the cash store. As an old player of Landmark it makes me hate Daybreak.
But I saw the work recruit in there and that usually means good things for the future. Time will tell.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
For a while now there has been a lot of issues around this, and the decision was finally made to separate the companies, and to more rigidly enforce said separation. This is NOT something that is popular within the companie(s), but it is something that needs to be done in order to meet the requirements of the investors. It will take a little while to settle out (and some people are likely going to leave), but eventually it will result in each product being accountable for its own operations and development costs.... which can then be tied to each bottom line.