So, am I looking forward to any games in this Universe? Maybe, but not a survival game. I've pretty much had it with endless punching trees and bashing barrels for resources to build these crazy bases, just to have the server reset every two weeks. ... It's not really a playable setting. It's a dead planet in the ass end of nowhere that humanity wouldn't stop to take a shit on if there wasn't spice.
Awesome, now you can continue with the books
Mostly agree, especially the part above. That's why I typed it wouldn't be fit for an Exiles-like game... and if they try to shoehorn it in somehow, the lore and the Dune feeling will be lost.
That's the problem with Dune. That's why some people call it the hardest book to translate to screen. Because literally anyone's interpretation is "correct". From David Lynch, to Jodorowsky to the sci-fi channel to Villeneuve. Any of them can put anything they want on the screen and you can't go back to the source material and say "Yep, that's what he described".
Agree with the assessment, but not the with the starting point, I believe that's one of the strengths of Dune.
Herbert was more interested on building a living world and telling a story in it, than the tiny details most writers spend pages to detail. It has the drawback of being hard to present on screen, but the big ones of that era were writers at first (Asimov, Clarke, etc. but could cite fantasy too, we all know how LotR movies turned out...), unlike the following generation of defected TV screenwriters (right, George? ) with more "screen-fitted" writing.
Honestly, the only two types of games I could see enjoying in this setting would be a 4x empire building game or a game that tells a relatively linear story with decision points along the way like "The Last of Us"
There could be MMORPGs easily as well...
I'd make a sandpark, with similar setting as LotRO has around the Fellowship. For me Dune is mainly the story, and the whole world is built in a way no player characters can fill any important roles in it, just work alongside it like in LotRO.
A nameless fremen, from a sietch (multiple starting locations, some near cities alongside the shield wall, more on the trading, others deeper in the flats, more on the worms tending), living in the sand would be the sandbox part, while the events unfolding around Paul which would slowly change the game to more focus on the story, all through the rule of Alia.
The other, EVE-like version Kyleran mentioned I'd place to the time of Paul's jihad, several Houses as starting locations, or the Guild for players who prefer hauling in EVE.
Kinda like corps in EVE, players work on the planet, with elected leaders among themselves, trading with other Houses (or backstabbing them), but everything with the jihad in mind.
Let's say one planet each month, randomly selected, gets scorched by the fedaykin. Those players affected can fight to hold back the attack long enough for the House to relocate onto an allied planet - if they have allies... and then keep working together. And new planets/Houses appear frequently for the new players.
Since EVE players tend to "break" games I assume they'd try to build up a force large enough to stop the jihad
ed: actually that wouldn't much different from the current EVE with the invasion, so maybe it's pointless to waste the IP on it... let's stick to my sandpark idea instead.
Honestly DUNE universe makes the most sense as a survival game anyway. MMORPG would be lame as hell.
I'm on the opposite opinion, and not only because I'm into the MMORPG fanclub and dislike all these newer game modes which try to water down the genre...
There were occasional threads in the past few years about IPs missing the MMORPG market yet, and/or which IPs would be good for a game, and Dune was always mentioned, for a good reason. It's a massive IP and in good hands it could be the base of a great MMORPG.
A mere survival? Not so much. Especially not in the form of a reskinned Exiles, which will be most likely the case... since the sandy environment is already there, and Funcom is lazy
But that pops up the design question, what is the time, and what to survive? Arrakis has a couple cities (well settled, traders, nobles, not much survival options there) and the sand, where only the fremens dare to go. So, probably players are fremens.
Back to square one, an Exiles-like survival just doesn't work with fremens... nothing to gather besides spice and water, nothing to build (have to live in sietches and only go out with clear goals), nothing to craft (besides a handful of items, since you live the nomadic life) and nothing to pvp with (besides that one water stealing tribe, and occasional duels, all fremens are in a brotherhood).
So, unless they pick a time around or after the terraforming, which they won't, since all the nice sand they already have in Exiles it would be a pretty boring survival, with almost no gathering, no building, minimal crafting, and almost no combat besides the pvp. Hell, even the start would be problematic, they can't just drop out the players with the usual "go, survive", without proper equipment (and knowledge) you die within a day.
The fremen life is about survival, but mostly revolving around the water and its cycle.
I get the desire to want an MMORPG one. I love MMORPGs. I love dune. I just see dune as mostly a struggle for resources and power, which is what most survival games are. I don't really see being able to make many unique classes around the dune universe. It's not great literature for that.
I don't like survival games either, but it makes the most sense.
I see this the same way. I have not read Dune, but did play the snot out of the old boardgame and saw the David Lynch movie when it released. I just don't see a lot of MMORPG aspects in it.
The setting to me seems to fit survival more than RPG. There really are not many "jobs/tasks" in the universe. I'm a Freman, or from The Guild, or a Bene Gesuit, or an Emperial. OK. What does that mean? How does that translate into RPG gameplay?
Maybe a realm vs realm vs realm vs realm vs realm vs realm (is that enough, or too many?) PvP game? There is spice to control.
As I said, I have not read the books, so my ignorance may be shining through here
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Having been given a Perma Ban by funcom for asking when Bar room brawling was gonna be put into AOC I am not a fan of anything coming from Funcom, I would caution let the buyer beware.
" Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Those Who Would Threaten It " MAGA
As I said, I have not read the books, so my ignorance may be shining through here
A good point, I also have to admit being on the other side, haven't played a lot of survivals (since I don't like it), and what I did play I was left behind fairly soon.
So, maybe I'm wrong with my original line of thought, due to my ignorance on that.
My ramblings before were all based on what I believe -alike H0urg1ass- is the essence of survivals: "endless punching trees and bashing barrels for resources to build these crazy bases" as he described it accurately.
Like their Exiles, where you start with nothing, punch trees and bushes and rocks, gather stuff, then craft stuff to be able for harder punches on trees and bushes and rocks, you punch the wildlife (crocs, rhinos, etc. in Exiles), you build a base and expand it further and further, you punch other players too and take their harvested stuff. Basically a harvest/craft/build treadmill, with some combat.
As said earlier, that just won't work in Dune. Unless of course they ravage the lore just to hear the lamentation of its women - if the lore is married.
On Arrakis there are no trees, bushes to punch. Nothing to build on the sand, since that's the realm of the worm. No wildlife to punch or to be threatened by (trouts are fodder, worms you can't punch). There's a small chance/array of crafting, but not from harvested stuff (since, nothing to harvest besides spice), but from trading. No pvp (again, unless they twist the lore heavily).
I fail to see how can fit for an Exiles-like game, but it's Funcom. As great they were on making good games, as hard they've fallen in the last few years. They can, and will butcher the lore if that's in their interest.
Or, there's also the chance of my ignorance and total misunderstanding of survivals...
Honestly DUNE universe makes the most sense as a survival game anyway. MMORPG would be lame as hell.
I'm on the opposite opinion, and not only because I'm into the MMORPG fanclub and dislike all these newer game modes which try to water down the genre...
There were occasional threads in the past few years about IPs missing the MMORPG market yet, and/or which IPs would be good for a game, and Dune was always mentioned, for a good reason. It's a massive IP and in good hands it could be the base of a great MMORPG.
A mere survival? Not so much. Especially not in the form of a reskinned Exiles, which will be most likely the case... since the sandy environment is already there, and Funcom is lazy
But that pops up the design question, what is the time, and what to survive? Arrakis has a couple cities (well settled, traders, nobles, not much survival options there) and the sand, where only the fremens dare to go. So, probably players are fremens.
Back to square one, an Exiles-like survival just doesn't work with fremens... nothing to gather besides spice and water, nothing to build (have to live in sietches and only go out with clear goals), nothing to craft (besides a handful of items, since you live the nomadic life) and nothing to pvp with (besides that one water stealing tribe, and occasional duels, all fremens are in a brotherhood).
So, unless they pick a time around or after the terraforming, which they won't, since all the nice sand they already have in Exiles it would be a pretty boring survival, with almost no gathering, no building, minimal crafting, and almost no combat besides the pvp. Hell, even the start would be problematic, they can't just drop out the players with the usual "go, survive", without proper equipment (and knowledge) you die within a day.
The fremen life is about survival, but mostly revolving around the water and its cycle.
I get the desire to want an MMORPG one. I love MMORPGs. I love dune. I just see dune as mostly a struggle for resources and power, which is what most survival games are. I don't really see being able to make many unique classes around the dune universe. It's not great literature for that.
I don't like survival games either, but it makes the most sense.
I see this the same way. I have not read Dune, but did play the snot out of the old boardgame and saw the David Lynch movie when it released. I just don't see a lot of MMORPG aspects in it.
The setting to me seems to fit survival more than RPG. There really are not many "jobs/tasks" in the universe. I'm a Freman, or from The Guild, or a Bene Gesuit, or an Emperial. OK. What does that mean? How does that translate into RPG gameplay?
Maybe a realm vs realm vs realm vs realm vs realm vs realm (is that enough, or too many?) PvP game? There is spice to control.
As I said, I have not read the books, so my ignorance may be shining through here
Do yourself the favor and read the books at some point! You've got the gist of it though. It's a political power struggle for resources. The RTS version was pretty cool but that genre also works much better than an RPG.
Having been given a Perma Ban by funcom for asking when Bar room brawling was gonna be put into AOC I am not a fan of anything coming from Funcom, I would caution let the buyer beware.
I got banned for asking when they were going to refund my double charge to my bank account from the AO progression server launch. After 3 months I just asked them on discord and got banned immediately. Had to chargeback resulting in my account(15+ years old) being terminated.
Do yourself the favor and read the books at some point! You've got the gist of it though. It's a political power struggle for resources. The RTS version was pretty cool but that genre also works much better than an RPG.
It really does, the first game was an adventure/RPG hybrid and was really good. Already had some of the strategy elements too, which later Westwood put into the focus of the game, but you still organised the harvest yourself, flying there, and not just give orders from a high-above overview.
I liked it more than Dune II, but clearly the latter was the more popular on the long run.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Having been given a Perma Ban by funcom for asking when Bar room brawling was gonna be put into AOC I am not a fan of anything coming from Funcom, I would caution let the buyer beware.
I got banned for asking when they were going to refund my double charge to my bank account from the AO progression server launch. After 3 months I just asked them on discord and got banned immediately. Had to chargeback resulting in my account(15+ years old) being terminated.
I always open several accounts each for the game I am currently playing even if I have other games with the same developer. I do this to avoid problems with the current game resulting in my other games being affected.
Having been given a Perma Ban by funcom for asking when Bar room brawling was gonna be put into AOC I am not a fan of anything coming from Funcom, I would caution let the buyer beware.
I got banned for asking when they were going to refund my double charge to my bank account from the AO progression server launch. After 3 months I just asked them on discord and got banned immediately. Had to chargeback resulting in my account(15+ years old) being terminated.
I always open several accounts each for the game I am currently playing even if I have other games with the same developer. I do this to avoid problems with the current game resulting in my other games being affected.
When my account was created AO was their only game.
This is great news Conan exiles is awesome and this gives me something to look forward to.
Bah, go punch some bushes or something out in your yard.
To me this concept is so funny since it would be way easier to just place a simple animation for grabbing something and instead of punching something you just 'collect'. Yet all those survival games does the same bush-punching (with exception of Salem, of course)... it's so absurd.
I wonder if Minecraft's "punch harvesting/mining" had any influence...
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
This is great news Conan exiles is awesome and this gives me something to look forward to.
Bah, go punch some bushes or something out in your yard.
To me this concept is so funny since it would be way easier to just place a simple animation for grabbing something and instead of punching something you just 'collect'. Yet all those survival games does the same bush-punching (with exception of Salem, of course)... it's so absurd.
I wonder if Minecraft's "punch harvesting/mining" had any influence...
Probably, seems like most survival games have been thrown together on the cheap just like Minecraft was so it's more of a cost factor to not bother with multiple animations for various activities.
So mining, you punch, chop wood, more punching, get some water, punch some more etc.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Ah yes when one hears of dune they think back to how in the books the children made their huts out of square blocks and oddly shaped walls and paunched rocks until they got the minerals they needed to go after the spice.
I mean seriously..Dune is the least survivor centric story ever. Like fk the whole universe thing. Let's do RUST ONLY IT'S DUNE!
I wonder if Minecraft's "punch harvesting/mining" had any influence...
Probably, since this cobbled up "genre", the survivals, are basically Minecraft with combat mode, plus the health micromanagement from early MUDs... (or, by a more modern approach from mods like DayZ)
I like the building part though, I was really into Landmark for example, until they fucked it up with weapons and combat...
My main gripe with Exiles is that too, it has the crafting which AoC should've received, since it was in development for more than 3 years - just so they could say at the end:
sorry but we have to cancel AoC's crafting revamp, but on a totally unrelated news we'll do a Conan survival! And if you see any similarities in there with the stuff we've presented during the previous years about the crafting revamp... well, that's surely just a coincidence.
Meh. So it's gonna be like Fallout76. No private servers (without paying through the nose for them) and dealing with exploiting douches the whole time. They can keep their "GaaS" then xD
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
Meh. So it's gonna be like Fallout76. No private servers (without paying through the nose for them) and dealing with exploiting douches the whole time. They can keep their "GaaS" then xD
Sigh, $12.99 / mo isn't "paying through the nose."
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Meh. So it's gonna be like Fallout76. No private servers (without paying through the nose for them) and dealing with exploiting douches the whole time. They can keep their "GaaS" then xD
Sigh, $12.99 / mo isn't "paying through the nose."
Sigh, $12.99 / mo isn't "paying through the nose."
Still a bad precedent, especially if you look at Todd's lamentation about how players play Skyrim and Fallout 4 for years without a single dime above the box purchase... and in light of how Rockstar milks GTA through online while ignores the actual game.
Luckily the game a$$ service flagship Stadia apparently stranded for a bit, but I personally don't want to see an in-between solution around Fallout First, because I play MMORPGs for online, and single-player games for offline.
I already use a cracked V, since I had enough of even without an Online character and the client set to offline it always went to online and downloaded several Gb of updates for nothing... "Look at these awesome updates we did for GTA:O, yep, you don't play it, BUT and IF you will later, it will be available right away" The install size has nearly doubled over the years, while the game was exactly the same since they only update their "Precciouss" Online.
With the crack it works just as all games should: you start the game, and the game starts. No logins, no pointless downloads, no mandatory online, etc.
So, I really don't want to Todd or a similar smartass come up with the "brilliant" idea of switching the two sides, and say it's an online game first and formost (and with it don't complain about the constant downloads and always online), but there's a singleplayer part of it - for money. Every month. In four months you pay a box price, but just keep paying more...
Just. No.
(I know it ain't fit for 76's private server mode since it ain't a full-value singleplayer game.
Meh. So it's gonna be like Fallout76. No private servers (without paying through the nose for them) and dealing with exploiting douches the whole time. They can keep their "GaaS" then xD
Sigh, $12.99 / mo isn't "paying through the nose."
Wasn't Fallout's private server thing more expensive than that though? Or did they change something?
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
Meh. So it's gonna be like Fallout76. No private servers (without paying through the nose for them) and dealing with exploiting douches the whole time. They can keep their "GaaS" then xD
Sigh, $12.99 / mo isn't "paying through the nose."
Wasn't Fallout's private server thing more expensive than that though? Or did they change something?
People often quoted the annual price of $100, a decent deal but I've not played any game steady for more than 6.months these past three years, so I pay monthly.
Also, in addition to private worlds the sub includes 1500 Atoms, an unlimited crafting box (life saver for we hoarders) and some free, unique FO1st cosmetics.
Yet MassivelyOP gave this a tie with SC as the "worst" monetization model of 2019.
Paying for things goes against their grain I guess.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Also, in addition to private worlds the sub includes 1500 Atoms, an unlimited crafting box (life saver for we hoarders) and some free, unique FO1st cosmetics.
Yet MassivelyOP gave this a tie with SC as the "worst" monetization model of 2019.
For the record I only ranted against the (hopefully not followed by many games) method of charging extra for the single player part.
I too wrote before that, for players who like and play Fallout '76 the First is a decent offer.
Don't how how it would tie with Chris' SC (.am ) but if they really want to "tie" something to it, I'd suggest the anniversary bundle of STO... now that reeks the SC method all around.
Selling a bundle of ships for hundreds of dollars, sounds familiar?
look at Todd's lamentation about how players play Skyrim and Fallout 4 for years without a single dime above the box purchase... and in light of how Rockstar milks GTA through online while ignores the actual game.
I wanted to add to this.
Todd hamstrung himself by going exclusively through Steam. I have bought Morrowind (which I still play) at a brick and mortar. Twice, since I lost my original discs. Then, I bought it on Steam when they go it. Finally, it came to GoG and I bought it yet, again. I bought Morrowind 4 times. It is a GREAT game and I don't mind it at all
PS: Bethesda did garner some goodwill by giving owners of the original Skyrim the HD version for free. They could have made more money, but chose not to.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Dune is about the conflict between various factions: the Houses, the Emperor, the Fremen, smugglers, the various religious groups, the Guild. I could see a MMORPG made from this.
I can't see it as a survival game, there was almost none of that in Dune.
Comments
The setting to me seems to fit survival more than RPG. There really are not many "jobs/tasks" in the universe. I'm a Freman, or from The Guild, or a Bene Gesuit, or an Emperial. OK. What does that mean? How does that translate into RPG gameplay?
Maybe a realm vs realm vs realm vs realm vs realm vs realm (is that enough, or too many?) PvP game? There is spice to control.
As I said, I have not read the books, so my ignorance may be shining through here
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
MAGA
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
So mining, you punch, chop wood, more punching, get some water, punch some more etc.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I mean seriously..Dune is the least survivor centric story ever.
Like fk the whole universe thing. Let's do RUST ONLY IT'S DUNE!
FFS like six people want survival games still.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The install size has nearly doubled over the years, while the game was exactly the same since they only update their "Precciouss" Online.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
Also, in addition to private worlds the sub includes 1500 Atoms, an unlimited crafting box (life saver for we hoarders) and some free, unique FO1st cosmetics.
Yet MassivelyOP gave this a tie with SC as the "worst" monetization model of 2019.
Paying for things goes against their grain I guess.
Weird.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Todd hamstrung himself by going exclusively through Steam. I have bought Morrowind (which I still play) at a brick and mortar. Twice, since I lost my original discs. Then, I bought it on Steam when they go it. Finally, it came to GoG and I bought it yet, again. I bought Morrowind 4 times. It is a GREAT game and I don't mind it at all
PS: Bethesda did garner some goodwill by giving owners of the original Skyrim the HD version for free. They could have made more money, but chose not to.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.