Has anyone heard of a way of getting their money back, after backing this project? I'm wondering if contacting Xsolla and Kickstarter would warrant some type of results, due to SBS stating that they would release in 2017 (though realistically that was impossible). This is a serious inquiry and I know a question like this would start some kind of debate in the CoE forums, so here I am.
Kickstarter will not help you. It's an agreement between you and SBS.
I think your best bet of getting SBS return your money would be their Kickstarter promise (taken from their Kickstarter page) "Soulbound Studios promises to: ... Publish & update our schedule on the CoE website"
If you've backed through Kickstarter you could e-mail them complaining that they're in violation of their Kickstarter agreement to update that schedule and give them some timeframe (eg. one month) to publish updated schedule how long the delivery of your Kickstarter rewards is estimated to take.
Then if they fail to publish updated schedule, you could inform them that you're terminating the agreement because they continue to violate that agreement, and refund must be provided within 14 days.
Something like this wouldn't be a good bet, but it might be better than trying to complain about the missed 2017 release date 2 years after they missed it.
I believe the best bet with Kickstarter would be to take the position that the Kickstarter campaign was fraudulent and point to the Kickstarter rule that says the money asked for must equal the full amount to complete the project and then point to Caspien's interview (during or shortly after) the Kickstarter on MassivelyOP where he states he will need something like $3.5M to complete the game.
I am not advocating doing so. I am just pointing out the tactic that I think would have the best chance of success with Kickstarter. Especially since Kickstarter recently used this justification to cancel an MMORPG that was about to fund a day later. I think they know they have a vulnerability here due to their failure to enforce the posted rules.
Overall I think the best path to success is actually a chargeback on your credit card based on non-delivery of items. I only did that once in my life. It was for Mortal Online and basically I only did it because the community moderator pretty much said "Yeah what they did was shitty but there's nothing you can do about it. Just suck it up and move on". I just thought that was bullshit so I decided to go get my cash back and I did.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Has anyone heard of a way of getting their money back, after backing this project? I'm wondering if contacting Xsolla and Kickstarter would warrant some type of results, due to SBS stating that they would release in 2017 (though realistically that was impossible). This is a serious inquiry and I know a question like this would start some kind of debate in the CoE forums, so here I am.
This has been discussed to death. The end result is that Kickstarter makes it clear that you are backing a project with no promise of success, so you have to do your due diligence before you invest. The only requirement that Kickstarter has, is that they use the money towards completing the project.
Their Success or total failure of a client is of not consequence to Kickstarter, and they will not refund your money if you invested it in stupid people that had no idea what they were doing.
Kickstarter wins no matter what. Even if a project is a complete fraud, Kickstarter still makes money.
You absolve them of any and all responsibility with the click of a mouse.
I appreciate the advice. I will consider my options and move along from there. Thank you.
Keep in mind if you try to Chargeback, Kickstarter WILL fight you. They flat out say this.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Keep in mind if you try to Chargeback, Kickstarter WILL fight you. They flat out say this.
Should I pursue that course of action, it'll be fine. Should I need to, I can lawyer up if it comes to that. Again, I'm considering which options are available to me and currently documenting transactions made throughout my time following and supporting Chronicles of Elyria. Should none of these avenues bear any fruit, so be it. At least I tried.
Keep in mind if you try to Chargeback, Kickstarter WILL fight you. They flat out say this.
Should I pursue that course of action, it'll be fine. Should I need to, I can lawyer up if it comes to that. Again, I'm considering which options are available to me and currently documenting transactions made throughout my time following and supporting Chronicles of Elyria. Should none of these avenues bear any fruit, so be it. At least I tried.
When I said Kickstarter will fight you, I don't mean they will send lawyers after you or challenge you to a fight, or even bring you to court, they will simply contact your Bank and challenge your Chargeback. Given this is a part of how they run a business, they know the ins and outs as such there is a better than good chance they will win, and you will not only need to pay the money, you will take a huge hit to your credit score.
Just saying.
But you know, if you could lawyer up anyway.. you might want to just call the Lawyer now and see what they suggest.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
As someone who worked at a call centre for a credit card company that handled calls that initiated disputes on charges you are probably SOL for a couple reasons.
Most credit card companies give you 90 days to in initiate a dispute on a charge. Kickstarter projects for MMOs take years.
It's important you file the dispute correctly the first time and keep documentation on any calls or correspondence. Ask for names and id numbers and statements and write it all down with dates and times or record it yourself.
Good luck.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
The Kickstarter thing has been done to death, I get that, But have any of you thought that Kickstarter has already written this project off as a complete failure?
Now understand Kickstarter only requires that the recipient make an earnest effort, and use the money towards the product, not that they succeed on any level, and say what you will, Caspian has in fact met those 2 requirements.
Now, Caspian and SBS said they were gonna make it by 2017, and let's put this out.. they failed, and they failed hard.
We are 2 years after their due date, and they flat out failed to make a game, or anything resembling a game for that matter, they have spent all the KS money, and by all rights, totally sunk this project.
If Caspian and SBS are somehow getting funds from other sources and still trying, that's nice and all, but it does not involve Kickstarter.
The Kickstarter said 2017, and boy did SBS fail that one.
Just something to keep in mind when you opt to cry to Kickstarter, they very well may have washed their hands with this one and said "Welp, another one failed" like thousands of other projects have failed, and will use that against you, that past 2017 (the due date), the project is now officially classified as failed by them, and your money is 2 years past being officially gone.
Just saying is all.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Has anyone heard of a way of getting their money back, after backing this project? I'm wondering if contacting Xsolla and Kickstarter would warrant some type of results, due to SBS stating that they would release in 2017 (though realistically that was impossible). This is a serious inquiry and I know a question like this would start some kind of debate in the CoE forums, so here I am.
Kickstarter will not help you. It's an agreement between you and SBS.
I think your best bet of getting SBS return your money would be their Kickstarter promise (taken from their Kickstarter page) "Soulbound Studios promises to: ... Publish & update our schedule on the CoE website"
If you've backed through Kickstarter you could e-mail them complaining that they're in violation of their Kickstarter agreement to update that schedule and give them some timeframe (eg. one month) to publish updated schedule how long the delivery of your Kickstarter rewards is estimated to take.
Then if they fail to publish updated schedule, you could inform them that you're terminating the agreement because they continue to violate that agreement, and refund must be provided within 14 days.
Something like this wouldn't be a good bet, but it might be better than trying to complain about the missed 2017 release date 2 years after they missed it.
I believe the best bet with Kickstarter would be to take the position that the Kickstarter campaign was fraudulent and point to the Kickstarter rule that says the money asked for must equal the full amount to complete the project and then point to Caspien's interview (during or shortly after) the Kickstarter on MassivelyOP where he states he will need something like $3.5M to complete the game.
I am not advocating doing so. I am just pointing out the tactic that I think would have the best chance of success with Kickstarter. Especially since Kickstarter recently used this justification to cancel an MMORPG that was about to fund a day later. I think they know they have a vulnerability here due to their failure to enforce the posted rules.
Overall I think the best path to success is actually a chargeback on your credit card based on non-delivery of items. I only did that once in my life. It was for Mortal Online and basically I only did it because the community moderator pretty much said "Yeah what they did was shitty but there's nothing you can do about it. Just suck it up and move on". I just thought that was bullshit so I decided to go get my cash back and I did.
Kickstarter might be liable for damages if they continued project with the knowledge that it's breaking rules. Once they know it, they must stop their co-operation with the project to avoid that liability.
After the project is over and money has been deposited to project creator, Kickstarter isn't co-operating with him any more and they're unlikely react to problems with project unless they get a court order to do so.
Has anyone heard of a way of getting their money back, after backing this project? I'm wondering if contacting Xsolla and Kickstarter would warrant some type of results, due to SBS stating that they would release in 2017 (though realistically that was impossible). This is a serious inquiry and I know a question like this would start some kind of debate in the CoE forums, so here I am.
Kickstarter will not help you. It's an agreement between you and SBS.
I think your best bet of getting SBS return your money would be their Kickstarter promise (taken from their Kickstarter page) "Soulbound Studios promises to: ... Publish & update our schedule on the CoE website"
If you've backed through Kickstarter you could e-mail them complaining that they're in violation of their Kickstarter agreement to update that schedule and give them some timeframe (eg. one month) to publish updated schedule how long the delivery of your Kickstarter rewards is estimated to take.
Then if they fail to publish updated schedule, you could inform them that you're terminating the agreement because they continue to violate that agreement, and refund must be provided within 14 days.
Something like this wouldn't be a good bet, but it might be better than trying to complain about the missed 2017 release date 2 years after they missed it.
I believe the best bet with Kickstarter would be to take the position that the Kickstarter campaign was fraudulent and point to the Kickstarter rule that says the money asked for must equal the full amount to complete the project and then point to Caspien's interview (during or shortly after) the Kickstarter on MassivelyOP where he states he will need something like $3.5M to complete the game.
I am not advocating doing so. I am just pointing out the tactic that I think would have the best chance of success with Kickstarter. Especially since Kickstarter recently used this justification to cancel an MMORPG that was about to fund a day later. I think they know they have a vulnerability here due to their failure to enforce the posted rules.
Overall I think the best path to success is actually a chargeback on your credit card based on non-delivery of items. I only did that once in my life. It was for Mortal Online and basically I only did it because the community moderator pretty much said "Yeah what they did was shitty but there's nothing you can do about it. Just suck it up and move on". I just thought that was bullshit so I decided to go get my cash back and I did.
Kickstarter might be liable for damages if they continued project with the knowledge that it's breaking rules. Once they know it, they must stop their co-operation with the project to avoid that liability.
After the project is over and money has been deposited to project creator, Kickstarter isn't co-operating with him any more and they're unlikely react to problems with project unless they get a court order to do so.
Yeah it looks like the MassivelyOP interview was in September and the Kickstarter ended in June.
Has anyone heard of a way of getting their money back, after backing this project? I'm wondering if contacting Xsolla and Kickstarter would warrant some type of results, due to SBS stating that they would release in 2017 (though realistically that was impossible). This is a serious inquiry and I know a question like this would start some kind of debate in the CoE forums, so here I am.
Kickstarter will not help you. It's an agreement between you and SBS.
I think your best bet of getting SBS return your money would be their Kickstarter promise (taken from their Kickstarter page) "Soulbound Studios promises to: ... Publish & update our schedule on the CoE website"
If you've backed through Kickstarter you could e-mail them complaining that they're in violation of their Kickstarter agreement to update that schedule and give them some timeframe (eg. one month) to publish updated schedule how long the delivery of your Kickstarter rewards is estimated to take.
Then if they fail to publish updated schedule, you could inform them that you're terminating the agreement because they continue to violate that agreement, and refund must be provided within 14 days.
Something like this wouldn't be a good bet, but it might be better than trying to complain about the missed 2017 release date 2 years after they missed it.
I believe the best bet with Kickstarter would be to take the position that the Kickstarter campaign was fraudulent and point to the Kickstarter rule that says the money asked for must equal the full amount to complete the project and then point to Caspien's interview (during or shortly after) the Kickstarter on MassivelyOP where he states he will need something like $3.5M to complete the game.
I am not advocating doing so. I am just pointing out the tactic that I think would have the best chance of success with Kickstarter. Especially since Kickstarter recently used this justification to cancel an MMORPG that was about to fund a day later. I think they know they have a vulnerability here due to their failure to enforce the posted rules.
Overall I think the best path to success is actually a chargeback on your credit card based on non-delivery of items. I only did that once in my life. It was for Mortal Online and basically I only did it because the community moderator pretty much said "Yeah what they did was shitty but there's nothing you can do about it. Just suck it up and move on". I just thought that was bullshit so I decided to go get my cash back and I did.
Kickstarter might be liable for damages if they continued project with the knowledge that it's breaking rules. Once they know it, they must stop their co-operation with the project to avoid that liability.
After the project is over and money has been deposited to project creator, Kickstarter isn't co-operating with him any more and they're unlikely react to problems with project unless they get a court order to do so.
Kickstarter does not oversee or get involved with any of the projects directly, they are just a means to connect creators with investors.
They transfer the money, and they walk away. The only time Kickstarter will get involved is if the money is misappropriated (IE: Not invested into the Project)
IE: Someone asked for a million to build a giant playground for kids with cancer and instead spent the money on ale and whores. Then.. you can bet Kickstarter would get involved.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
For purchases out of that limit, you can file a complaint with the BBB. Please note you’ll need a working US postal address and phone number. You can file your complaint here:
Comments
I am not advocating doing so. I am just pointing out the tactic that I think would have the best chance of success with Kickstarter. Especially since Kickstarter recently used this justification to cancel an MMORPG that was about to fund a day later. I think they know they have a vulnerability here due to their failure to enforce the posted rules.
Overall I think the best path to success is actually a chargeback on your credit card based on non-delivery of items. I only did that once in my life. It was for Mortal Online and basically I only did it because the community moderator pretty much said "Yeah what they did was shitty but there's nothing you can do about it. Just suck it up and move on". I just thought that was bullshit so I decided to go get my cash back and I did.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
You absolve them of any and all responsibility with the click of a mouse.
Not a bad gig eh
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
When I said Kickstarter will fight you, I don't mean they will send lawyers after you or challenge you to a fight, or even bring you to court, they will simply contact your Bank and challenge your Chargeback. Given this is a part of how they run a business, they know the ins and outs as such there is a better than good chance they will win, and you will not only need to pay the money, you will take a huge hit to your credit score.
Just saying.
But you know, if you could lawyer up anyway.. you might want to just call the Lawyer now and see what they suggest.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Now understand Kickstarter only requires that the recipient make an earnest effort, and use the money towards the product, not that they succeed on any level, and say what you will, Caspian has in fact met those 2 requirements.
Now, Caspian and SBS said they were gonna make it by 2017, and let's put this out.. they failed, and they failed hard.
We are 2 years after their due date, and they flat out failed to make a game, or anything resembling a game for that matter, they have spent all the KS money, and by all rights, totally sunk this project.
If Caspian and SBS are somehow getting funds from other sources and still trying, that's nice and all, but it does not involve Kickstarter.
The Kickstarter said 2017, and boy did SBS fail that one.
Just something to keep in mind when you opt to cry to Kickstarter, they very well may have washed their hands with this one and said "Welp, another one failed" like thousands of other projects have failed, and will use that against you, that past 2017 (the due date), the project is now officially classified as failed by them, and your money is 2 years past being officially gone.
Just saying is all.
After the project is over and money has been deposited to project creator, Kickstarter isn't co-operating with him any more and they're unlikely react to problems with project unless they get a court order to do so.
https://massivelyop.com/2016/09/28/interview-chronicles-of-elyrias-jeromy-walsh-on-post-kickstarter-funding/
To me it's always seemed really scummy but since it was 3 months after the Kickstarter I guess it's not their problem.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
They transfer the money, and they walk away. The only time Kickstarter will get involved is if the money is misappropriated (IE: Not invested into the Project)
IE: Someone asked for a million to build a giant playground for kids with cancer and instead spent the money on ale and whores. Then.. you can bet Kickstarter would get involved.
Gut Out!
What, me worry?
https://help.xsolla.com/#contactUs
For purchases out of that limit, you can file a complaint with the BBB. Please note you’ll need a working US postal address and phone number. You can file your complaint here:
https://www.bbb.org/local-bbb/bbb-northwest-pacific