Reason for the massive delays?

Slapshot1188 · February 2020

If you recall waaaaay back in Jan 2018 when they announced they were dropping SpatialOS (what they touted as the fabric the game would be built on) we were told that they had the replacement solution. A key part of that was using RabbitMQ, NodeJS and Docker. Now it seems that they are scraping all of that and once again in search of a solution. I hate to say I told you so (not really), but this is EXACTLY what Harbingers questioned years ago. That it was NOT so easy to just recreate SpatialOS with 3 guys working with off the shelf components. It's not about getting the game to run with a tiny area and a few people. It's about getting a game to run that will support 100,000 players on a server. It was blown off as naysaying... but this is pretty much ALL that Camelot Unchained has worked on for 7 years and > double the money CoE has raised and they STILL do not have it locked down.

Jan 2018:

Image: http://puu.sh/z0Xim/dcc4ad1919.png

Image: http://puu.sh/z0XkP/b3ba88c5ba.png

Caspian ☁Today at 6:52 PM

We're doing investigation into using C++, C#, or Rust now for our platform. We were previously using NodeJS, but the process overhead and large memory footprint of NodeJS made it unsuitable for the large scale world we're creating.

Caspian ☁Today at 6:43 PM

@Corimak the Dull We use Docker. Our initial implementation was with Docker Swarm, but we're likely moving to Kubernetes.

Caspian ☁Today at 6:46 PM

We're also doing R&D on various programming languages for our service mesh.

Caspian ☁Today at 6:49 PM

@Zardoz Our first implementation used RabbitMQ as a pub/sub messaging protocol. We're experimenting with alternatives right now.

---------------

That they are once again going back to such items should scare the crap out of anyone that wants to see this game release in some form.

IMHO the backers should be having a shit-fit right now after what they were told back in 2017/2018.

EponyxDamor · February 2020

SBS: We aren't using SpatialOS/Docker/NodeJS/RabbitMQ/PC anymore, but we've got it all figureed out.

Narrator: They didn't have it all figured out, though.

Slapshot1188 · February 2020

EponyxDamor said:

SBS: We aren't using SpatialOS/Docker/NodeJS/RabbitMQ/PC anymore, but we've got it all figureed out.

Narrator: They didn't have it all figured out, though.

How many times do you get to change "the fabric that our game is being built on" (using other people's money) before you admit you have failed? I mean. This is utterly ridiculous news, and nary a peep over in fantasy land the official forums.

Maybe it's time for one of @Kyleran Grapevine posts over there. The level of mental gymnastics that will be displayed to make this a positive will be stunning.

Kyleran · February 2020

I'm not surprised, these folks at SBS have no idea what they are doing.

They try something, fail, try again, fail , now for round 3 using new tech they don't understand, what could go wrong?

Too bad they didn't listen to the armchair developers years ago, could have saved a lot of time and money.

Some projects just aren't worth continuing after the POC fails....twice.

Torrsk · February 2020

The best part of Caspian saying that is the aftermath. The community doesn't even care. They just go back to making random jokes.

I then read before all that started. Someone asking more "hard" questions and Caspian saying the same thing he always does "Trust me this year will be awesome!".

I do wonder at this point though: Caspian Yesterday at 10:16 AM We're in the process of interviewing new Community Managers, a Marketing Manager, and several web developers and engineers.

This seems to be more people they are hiring. I wouldn't have thought 1 million would really stretch this far. They are paid what again? 80-100k? That won't really last long, with the amount of people they have. Makes me curious if they are in talks with some investor.

Slapshot1188 · February 2020

Or people have left

Kyleran · February 2020

So I did share this info on the SBS forums in as neutral a post as possible, with no inferences on their potential impacts to anything. Likely will be furiously downvoted, all of my posts start with an automatic -2 from my "fans" and usually head further south from there.

Slapshot1188 · February 2020

Kyleran said:

So I did share this info on the SBS forums in as neutral a post as possible, with no inferences on their potential impacts to anything. Likely will be furiously downvoted, all of my posts start with an automatic -2 from my "fans" and usually head further south from there.

I think the scariest part is that they are just researching stuff. As far as I can tell, this means that their current solution does not work, and they are not sure how to proceed.

Like when they announced they were ditching SpatialOS at least he had a stated plan. Now we said that the plan was bullshit and wouldn't work, but at least he said he had one. This time it's just... well, we are researching alternatives to pretty much everything we said we had covered but I'm sure it will be fine...

Downright scary.

Kyleran · February 2020

Slapshot1188 said:

Kyleran said:

So I did share this info on the SBS forums in as neutral a post as possible, with no inferences on their potential impacts to anything. Likely will be furiously downvoted, all of my posts start with an automatic -2 from my "fans" and usually head further south from there.

I think the scariest part is that they are just researching stuff. As far as I can tell, this means that their current solution does not work, and they are not sure how to proceed.

Like when they announced they were ditching SpatialOS at least he had a stated plan. Now we said that the plan was bullshit and wouldn't work, but at least he said he had one. This time it's just... well, we are researching alternatives to pretty much everything we said we had covered but I'm sure it will be fine...

Downright scary.

I know, right? He goes into the various benefits and drawbacks between C++, C# and Rust, but never mentions the challenge of getting the team up to speed whenever a new language is employed.

Piece o' cake I guess when you are surrounded by a crack development team.

goldboyy45 · February 2020

Yup, i was in discord yesterday when Caspian casually dropped this bombshell. I love the people in the 10K forums and EA forums downplaying this info and basically saying "so what? some of us knew this already"....absolutely shocking, no pre-elyria, every deadline missed, who the hell knows how much cash is left of that 8M over 4 years...no settlers of elyria, no state of elyria, shinies have devolved into literally single pictures of concepts from years ago....I really don't know what is going on over at Soulbound Studios but I will have my popcorn ready to slowly see this failed experiment play out.

It doesn't matter how many times Caspian changes directions/visions, the ivory tower is alive and well and will defend him till the very end...i mean they have to, spending thousands of dollars and building up their imaginary settlements over the past 3-4 years.

Caspian "We're doing R&D......We're experimenting".....I don't think any of us realize how far behind they really are. Do people think they burn like 2000$ a month and can develop this game for the next 10 years? Newsflash, with the recent hires and Caspian saying he wants ~30 ppl at the studios, you're looking at LEAST 2.5M/year in costs, if not much much more. Who do you think will give him this money?

Relampago · February 2020

Horse...dead...kicking

Slapshot1188 · February 2020

Kyleran said:

So I did share this info on the SBS forums in as neutral a post as possible, with no inferences on their potential impacts to anything. Likely will be furiously downvoted, all of my posts start with an automatic -2 from my "fans" and usually head further south from there.

What is absolutely funny (although predicted) is that they ignore the actual content which shows that the ship is at sea without a map and instead have apparently decided that because you have an MMORPG.COM account you are the issue.

You simply cannot make this stuff up.

The head of their project just stated that their 2 year old replacement for SpatialOS (what the game was fundamentally built on) does not work and they are researching other coding languages and programs to switch to.

And these guys ignore that and complain about your MMORPG.COM post count.

You honestly cannot make this stuff up. IMHO it's gone to diehard cult level nonsense.

goldboyy45 · February 2020

Slapshot1188 said:

Kyleran said:

So I did share this info on the SBS forums in as neutral a post as possible, with no inferences on their potential impacts to anything. Likely will be furiously downvoted, all of my posts start with an automatic -2 from my "fans" and usually head further south from there.

What is absolutely funny (although predicted) is that they ignore the actual content which shows that the ship is at sea without a map and instead have apparently decided that because you have an MMORPG.COM account you are the issue.

You simply cannot make this stuff up.

The head of their project just stated that their 2 year old replacement for SpatialOS (what the game was fundamentally built on) does not work and they are researching other coding languages and programs to switch to.

And these guys ignore that and complain about your MMORPG.COM post count.

You honestly cannot make this stuff up. IMHO it's gone to diehard cult level nonsense.

100% agree with you, who tf cares if kyleran has a mmorpg.com account or not? Unbelievable. The lack of transparency from SbS is staggering. Why are none of the backers even raising the question what sort of setback this switch by Caspian going to have on this project? I really have no answers, it's absolutely disgusting. Perhaps we will get more info on this when Caspian decides to write the State of Elyria...Probably in March, just like the 2019 one.

Here is a chuckle for you...so apparently Caspian said the song for 2020 is Rise:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB8TyLTD7EE

Slapshot1188 · February 2020

goldboyy45 said:

100% agree with you, who tf cares if kyleran has a mmorpg.com account or not? Unbelievable. The lack of transparency from SbS is staggering. Why are none of the backers even raising the question what sort of setback this switch by Caspian going to have on this project? I really have no answers, it's absolutely disgusting. Perhaps we will get more info on this when Caspian decides to write the State of Elyria...Probably in March, just like the 2019 one.

Here is a chuckle for you...so apparently Caspian said the song for 2020 is Rise:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB8TyLTD7EE

So their 2020 theme song is literally taken from another online game? Why does that not surprise me? (Thinking of the Mood Piece / Pinterest copy paste fiasco).

Maybe he can fund the next 8 years of this by selling the rights to a comedic TV series based on video game development. Kind of like The Office - SbS Edition

Regarding the backend switch, based on the posts I read I am thinking most of them just have no freaking idea what any of that means so they just assume it's no big deal.

goldboyy45 · February 2020

Caspian ☁Yesterday at 6:35 PM

My goal is for this year to be the year where we can demonstrate what we're capable of. To reach out and grab the crown. I anticipate we've got a lot of battles to fight this year. But my team and I aren't backing down. We aren't giving up. We're going to work to create a product we're proud of, that our backers are excited about, and rise above the imagine we created for ourselves last year. This year won't be easy. But it'll be worth it.

Caspian ☁Yesterday at 6:32 PM

I mentioned a week or so ago that I have a personal theme song each year to help inspire me. Last year's theme song was Thunder, by Imagine Dragons. This year my theme song is RISE by League of Legends. There's so much to the lyrics of that song that rings true to me right now.

Kyleran · February 2020

Tierless said:

So what explanation has he ever offered for his launch date being off my several years?

None that I'm aware of, unless shared privately under the 10K forum.

Slapshot1188 · February 2020

Tierless said:

So what explanation has he ever offered for his launch date being off my several years?

Dwelling in the past is for Trolls.
Much better to just post a State of Elyria and list the new stuff that is going to come in the future. Who cares if they never did what they said they would do last year...

goldboyy45 · February 2020

Tierless said:

So what explanation has he ever offered for his launch date being off my several years?

The last state of elyria from March 2019 stated Pre-Elyria should be completed around the end of summer 2019. That deadline has since passed, Caspian has not said why this was delayed or the current status of it.

December 2019, Caspian said he would release a state of elyria around the 3rd week of December of 2019 detailing the roadmap for the project.

2 Months later, Caspian has not released the write up.

You can extrapolate from that

Slapshot1188 · February 2020

Remember how they went from ElyriaMud to VoxElyria to now Pre-Elyria? And nobody has played it?
Well now they went from SpatialOS to homemade effort 1 and now to homemade effort #2

See a pattern?

lahnmir · February 2020

goldboyy45 said:

Caspian ☁Yesterday at 6:35 PM
My goal is for this year to be the year where we can demonstrate what we're capable of. To reach out and grab the crown. I anticipate we've got a lot of battles to fight this year. But my team and I aren't backing down. We aren't giving up. We're going to work to create a product we're proud of, that our backers are excited about, and rise above the imagine we created for ourselves last year. This year won't be easy. But it'll be worth it.

Caspian ☁Yesterday at 6:32 PM
I mentioned a week or so ago that I have a personal theme song each year to help inspire me. Last year's theme song was Thunder, by Imagine Dragons. This year my theme song is RISE by League of Legends. There's so much to the lyrics of that song that rings true to me right now.

Welcome to the wild, no heroes and villains
Welcome to the war, we've only begun, so
Pick up your weapon and face it
There's blood on the crown, go and take it
You get one shot to make it out alive, so

Higher and higher you chase it
It's deep in your bones, go and take it
This is your moment, now is your time, so

Prove yourself and
Rise, rise
Make 'em remember you
Rise
Push through hell and
Rise, rise
They will remember you
Rise

Welcome to the climb up, reach for the summit
Visions pray that one false step lead the end, so

Higher and higher you chase it
It's deep in your blood, go and take it
This is your moment, take to the skies

Go and prove yourself and
Rise, rise
Make 'em remember you
Rise
Push through hell and
Rise, rise
They will remember you
Rise

So get along,…

I literally can’t stop laughing.

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

Kyleran · February 2020

Slapshot1188 said:

Remember how they went from ElyriaMud to VoxElyria to now Pre-Elyria? And nobody has played it?
Well now they went from SpatialOS to homemade effort 1 and now to homemade effort #2

See a pattern?

All roads lead to no where?

Torrsk · February 2020

The best part of Caspian talking on discord is this beauty:

Caspian ☁12/03/2019 I know the...release schedule for next year. And it's pretty packed. It's going to be an amazingly busy year for you guys.

It's almost like he hasn't learnt that saying this stuff on discord, will just come back to bite him later on. So we are into the second month on the year and what is happening? Where's this packed year?

BrotherMaynard · February 2020

goldboyy45 said:

Caspian ☁Yesterday at 6:35 PM
My goal is for this year to be the year where we can demonstrate what we're capable of.

Personally, I would say this is a goal for the year you first go public and launch your Kickstarter campaign.

But that's just me, I guess...

Scot · February 2020

It is the same reason for all the CF MMOs that look like there are going to take ten years to develop...biting of more than you can chew.

Copperfield · February 2020

these guys of this project talk so much... without showing anything substantial

i feel sorry for the people that backed this up... because i believe these guys are nothing more then talk

frostymug · February 2020

Tierless said:

So what explanation has he ever offered for his launch date being off my several years?

He was (on vacation/sick/spending time with family) and his team (failed/let him down/didn't follow his directions/couldn't complete anything on time), but now he's (giving up his personal time/handling things while sick) so don't worry (amazing/incredible/exciting) progress is now being made that he cannot (talk about/show) right now, but will hopefully be able to (very) soon.

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Reason for the massive delays?

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Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Caspian ☁Yesterday at 6:35 PM

Caspian ☁Yesterday at 6:32 PM

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Caspian ☁Yesterday at 6:35 PM

Caspian ☁Yesterday at 6:32 PM

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Caspian ☁Yesterday at 6:35 PM

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Reason for the massive delays?

Caspian ☁Today at 6:52 PM

Caspian ☁Today at 6:43 PM

Caspian ☁Today at 6:46 PM

Caspian ☁Today at 6:49 PM

Comments

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Caspian ☁Yesterday at 6:35 PM

Caspian ☁Yesterday at 6:32 PM

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Caspian ☁Yesterday at 6:35 PM

Caspian ☁Yesterday at 6:32 PM

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Caspian ☁Yesterday at 6:35 PM