2. What's the power gaps between levels, percentage wise? And how many levels will there be in the first (chapter, was it?), and ultimately?
3. I don't understand how you will be handling group quests/story lines in an open world without instances. Lets say I'm already in a place where another group has a "point B" in their quest, they come in and supposedly have content for their story, what will I see and what will I be able to interact with? Will a BOSS pop in for them? Will I be able to help them? What happens to my normal content in the meantime? How's this work?
4. You call this a Sandbox. But I have a feeling that players will be restricted to content based on their levels to quite an extent, and that wouldn't actually be a Sandbox world. That's not bad, just bad for me, lol. Can you address this?
#1: Nope. It was never first person. We just didn't have third-person POV in for the first couple of years of pre alpha as it wasn't a priority and we wanted to play around with first person POV first from a design standpoint.
The myth of us being first-person only was fake news, despite us even having a blog post talking about our plans for third-person even back when we were still doing first person testing. Which was more than three years ago.
#2: There are no levels. There are no experience points. Instead, there are skills and skill lines called masteries. https://sagaoflucimia.com/game/faq
#3 & #4: Refer back to early EQ, early EQ2, and Vanguard for how games operate in non-instanced environments.
Ok, so big power gaps, and not really a Sandbox game. But you must have a reason to call it "Sandbox", and that leaves me wondering what that is. Are you having lots of worldly interaction? That's "levers on steroids". Makeshift battering rams? Breaking down stone doors? Releasing water to drain pools? Stacking objects to climb? What's your thinking here?
This doesn't sound like a game I want. But there's a lot of gamers out there with all kinds of ideals. Good luck.
Clearly, you've not read anything about our game, nor even bothered to read the aformentioned FAQ page.
Best of luck out there!
Ren, I have read your FAQ, as well as the last Blog, and spent a little time in your forums. I'm just asking, because there is no clarity that I've found yet. Your response is unsatisfactory, but I have no wish to derail your game. I'll wait and see how things turn out.
Thanks. That's probably one of the best-written things I've seen here on MMORPG.com in all the years I've been coming here.
I would dispell one thing, however. In terms of our launch. I know it might seem as though we may beat some of the "bigger" games with celebrity behind them to the punch in terms of a launch date, but I know for a fact that our game won't have the same visual polish as theirs will.
Games like Star Citizen, Camelot Unchained, even Pantheon, are focused on creating a "feature complete", or near feature complete, experience for their players, and that's something we know for a fact just isn't possible or realistic with an MMORPG.
Games as a service evolve. EQ1 revamped their character models several years in. Added instancing later on. Added guild halls later on. WoW is a case study in a game continually evolving (for better or worse). Elder Scrolls Online didn't launch with housing. Neither did Lord of the Rings Online. DDO didn't have mounts for, what was it, 10 years? These were all features added in later.
We fully recognize that what we view as an acceptable launch product, and what many others view as acceptable, won't match.
We've looked at small teams with big dreams who launched their products in early stages, but then grew them up over time. Gloria Victus. Warframe. Path of Exile, just to name a few.
I don't personally enjoy some of those games for various reasons. But the teams behind them are what we pay attention to. Their games launched, in some cases in rough states, but through hard work, perseverance, and sheer dedication from both the fans and the developers, built them up patch by patch, expansion by expansion, into where they are today.
Games that started with teams of 8 people, then grew to 18. Then grew to 30. Then grew to 50. And so on and so forth.
One of the benefits of being largely self-funded and backed by private investments is that we aren't being pressured to hit some ridiculously large numbers by a publisher who will pull the plug on us if we drop below a few million a month in revenue. We can take things slow, at our own pace, which is what we've always done since the beginning.
Our goal isn't to beat anyone to the finish line, persay. It was more the result of us sitting down as a team and saying look, if we don't set a publishing date it's never gonna happen. If we keep trying to look for the perfect launch, we'll be here forever. We have spouses and significant others who have been supporting our unpaid side hustle for the past six years, and we owe it to them, even more than our community to some degrees, to get something out the door so we can start drawing paychecks.
The other option would be to do what most of the other crowdfunded games are doing. Annual fundraising drives (or quarterly) to keep the lights on so they can keep working on things, but then continually adding new features or things that push the launch window out into some grey, unknown area.
And granted, we've certainly leveraged the pre-order store in the past. Certainly before we got private investors on board. And we will absolutely be leveraging them again from March 18th until our launch date (damn greedy developers!). But I'd like to think that we've proven ourselves over the past six years as a team who does what they say they will do, without any showmanship or overpromising, even if people don't necessarily think that our game will be for them.
My only objective is to launch a game that players will find to be fun, enjoyable, and then continue to build upon it leveraging the reputation of our team members for being hardworking, passionate developers who want to keep adding to things to make it better over time. We won't be perfect, we won't be a game for everyone, but we'll work bust our asses to make the best possible game we possibly can, and then sweat blood and tears until we can make it better.
We still won't offer refunds or ever put our product on Steam, though =P
Summary - our game will be an unfinished unpolished mess at "launch" by normal standards. Also graphics wont be great.
Also no refunds, no steam
But we are passionate and hard working!
You complain about companies not being honest about their products almost daily but when one does you mock them.
Agreed. I'm fine with what Renfail said, allows me to decide if I'm up for such an experience, I hate being surprised or promised that which can't be done, ever.
If I buy in you won't see me slagging on the graphics quality, bugs etc unless it is totally unplayable.
But hey, I enjoy and am still playing FO76, you have to be made of sterner stuff to do such.
I'm sure Wastelanders in April will be a shitshow, (early reports by those in beta are pointing to such) but I'll just shrug it off and try to find the fun in it somewhere.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
wow so only the 10 players who play teh game voted on it? never heard of it btw, even less when they made the votes
One of the devs posts here quite often and there have been plenty of news articles on it.
Console playing casuals and BR lovers aren't very likely to follow this game, I'm sure for most their eyes glaze over when mention is made of the group centric, cooperative design.
Mentioning the word "challenge" is often a non starter as well.
For me it's more the, "it will take you months before you can move into different content." This translates into you are going to be doing the same content over and over again for months before you can do anything new.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Agreed. I'm fine with what Renfail said, allows me to decide if I'm up for such an experience, I hate being surprised or promised that which can't be done, ever.
If I buy in you won't see me slagging on the graphics quality, bugs etc unless it is totally unplayable.
But hey, I enjoy and am still playing FO76, you have to be made of sterner stuff to do such.
I'm sure Wastelanders in April will be a shitshow, (early reports by those in beta are pointing to such) but I'll just shrug it off and try to find the fun in it somewhere.
Our weak point at the moment is we lack a graphics programmer. So there's a lot we'd love to do in terms polish, but until we find the right person to hire, we're limited in that department. We had someone lined up, but it didn't work out, so we've just sort of bypassed that part of the game for now.
Which is to directly say, polish on things like lighting, shaders, and etc. But we also aren't hugely worried about that stuff because it's literally ALL polish that can be done later on. But we'd love to hire someone now, rather than later; just haven't found the right candidate.
We're also lacking in the animation polish department, and VFX; two other areas we are hiring for.
Other than that? We're pretty much set. We can totally launch without "amazeballs" VFX and we can totally launch without super-amazing animations. The game is playable, bugs aren't really an issue (we crush them weekly), and we add new features on a regular basis.
Polish is something that can wait. We're still in alpha. Not a priority issue until beta, really.
For me it's more the, "it will take you months before you can move into different content." This translates into you are going to be doing the same content over and over again for months before you can do anything new.
Nothing worthwhile can be done by yourself in a matter of minutes. The best things in life, and games, are those that take time + effort to overcome.
Whether or not something takes someone months depends on their playstyle, but nothing we are designing is meant to be accomplished in a single play session.
There are plenty of other games out there where you can find instant gratification.
wow so only the 10 players who play teh game voted on it? never heard of it btw, even less when they made the votes
One of the devs posts here quite often and there have been plenty of news articles on it.
Console playing casuals and BR lovers aren't very likely to follow this game, I'm sure for most their eyes glaze over when mention is made of the group centric, cooperative design.
Mentioning the word "challenge" is often a non starter as well.
For me it's more the, "it will take you months before you can move into different content." This translates into you are going to be doing the same content over and over again for months before you can do anything new.
For me it's more the, "it will take you months before you can move into different content." This translates into you are going to be doing the same content over and over again for months before you can do anything new.
Nothing worthwhile can be done by yourself in a matter of minutes. The best things in life, and games, are those that take time + effort to overcome.
Whether or not something takes someone months depends on their playstyle, but nothing we are designing is meant to be accomplished in a single play session.
There are plenty of other games out there where you can find instant gratification.
What you said and what I said are not the same thing. Not even close.
There is a reason why people hate dailies, why people always ask for new dungeons. Repeating content/mobs/dungeons you have already beaten gets old very very fast.
Taking months or years to level is fine. Repeating the same content is just bad. Even old games had many different areas and mobs to level in at any particular level to keep things varied.
Post edited by VengeSunsoar on
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
wow so only the 10 players who play teh game voted on it? never heard of it btw, even less when they made the votes
One of the devs posts here quite often and there have been plenty of news articles on it.
Console playing casuals and BR lovers aren't very likely to follow this game, I'm sure for most their eyes glaze over when mention is made of the group centric, cooperative design.
Mentioning the word "challenge" is often a non starter as well.
For me it's more the, "it will take you months before you can move into different content." This translates into you are going to be doing the same content over and over again for months before you can do anything new.
Perhaps this isn't the genre for ... nevermind.
Why. Even the original games that started the genre had varied content at any level.
Taking months or years to level is fine. Twisting the same content is just had. Even old games had mentioned different areas and mobs to level in at any particular level to keep things varied.
Maybe the genre isn't for you.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
What you said and what I said are not the same thing. Not even close.
There is a reason why people hate dailies, why people always ask for new dungeons. Repeating content/mobs/you dungeons you have already beaten gets old very very fast.
Taking months or years to level is fine. Twisting the same content is just had. Even old games had mentioned different areas and mobs to level in at any particular level to keep things varied.
Good thing we don't have quest hubs, zero dailies, no experience points, and dungeons that are EQ1 style in size/scope and meant to take weeks/months to fully explore rather than 15-minute instances that people put on repeat every day.
EQ was what I was thinking about when I wrote my post. It had a great many varied areas to explore and most of their dungeons did not take weeks or months to fully explore. Actually none did (leveling dungeons, I can't comment on raids because I don't do it). Some of their dungeons did have some areas that you could not go back to until you were significantly higher though.
Staying in the same area doing the same things against the same mobs for weeks and months is just bad design.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
EQ was what I was thinking about when I wrote my post. It had a great many varied areas to explore and most of their dungeons did not take weeks or months to fully explore. Actually none did (leveling dungeons, I can't comment on raids because I don't do it). Some of their dungeons did have some areas that you could not go back to until you were significantly higher though.
Staying in the same area doing the same things against the same mobs for weeks and months is just bad design.
You and I played very different versions of EQ1. But you admit that you didn't do raids, so that's probably why. My guild spent three months in Kael when Velious came out. Another three months in Velk's Labyrinth. All gearing up for the Velious raids, which was a good year of our game time.
We didn't "move on" from dungeons and come back later. We went in at the starting level, and we worked our way through, night after night, session after session, week after week, until we had leveled our way through an entire place, sometimes spending two to three months in a single dungeon before we moved on.
The way they were designed to be played.
Castle Mistmoore is a *great* example; you can start in the late teens and it can take you all the way to the late 40s. Been a long time ago, but I remember this being one of the longest, around four months, and we cleared every nook and cranny.
The Hole. Chardok. Howling Stones. Veksar. Temple of Droga. Greig's End. The Deep.
I could go on. So many dungoens that had level spans of 15-20 levels that were designed to maintain a group for many, many, many sessions as they worked their way through.
Our SoL gaming community even went back to Project 1999 in, I think it was 2016, as a social experiment that we streamed on Twitch. We went straight to Befallen at level 8-10, and then played over the next three weeks, 3-4 times per week, 2-3 hour sessions, and leveled to around 25.
Three weeks, without ever leaving the same dungeon, and that being in the modern era when we had maps, knew all the key locations, and didn't have to explore and figure things out.
Not interested in some pro rated streamers hype up a game,matter of fact i am losing more interest by the day to streamers in general,they are all sell outs for money.
Narcissistic, irritating sell-outs, at that. Honestly, they're like clones of each other... same "cool" (AKA: fake) attitude, same tedious presentation style and all they do is pander to the lowest common denominator just to make a few bucks and get ratings. I wouldn't trust any of them to tell me what day of the week it is.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
I'm just asking, because there is no clarity that I've found yet.
Your response is unsatisfactory, but I have no wish to derail your game.
I'll wait and see how things turn out.
Once upon a time....
"My Fantasy is having two men at once...
One Cooking and One Cleaning!"
---------------------------
"A good man can make you feel sexy,
strong and able to take on the whole world...
oh sorry...that's wine...wine does that..."
If I buy in you won't see me slagging on the graphics quality, bugs etc unless it is totally unplayable.
But hey, I enjoy and am still playing FO76, you have to be made of sterner stuff to do such.
I'm sure Wastelanders in April will be a shitshow, (early reports by those in beta are pointing to such) but I'll just shrug it off and try to find the fun in it somewhere.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Gut Out!
What, me worry?
Which is to directly say, polish on things like lighting, shaders, and etc. But we also aren't hugely worried about that stuff because it's literally ALL polish that can be done later on. But we'd love to hire someone now, rather than later; just haven't found the right candidate.
We're also lacking in the animation polish department, and VFX; two other areas we are hiring for.
Other than that? We're pretty much set. We can totally launch without "amazeballs" VFX and we can totally launch without super-amazing animations. The game is playable, bugs aren't really an issue (we crush them weekly), and we add new features on a regular basis.
Polish is something that can wait. We're still in alpha. Not a priority issue until beta, really.
So we've got time
New stream will go live on March 18th on our Twitch and you can see the latest.
Whether or not something takes someone months depends on their playstyle, but nothing we are designing is meant to be accomplished in a single play session.
There are plenty of other games out there where you can find instant gratification.
There is a reason why people hate dailies, why people always ask for new dungeons. Repeating content/mobs/dungeons you have already beaten gets old very very fast.
Taking months or years to level is fine. Repeating the same content is just bad. Even old games had many different areas and mobs to level in at any particular level to keep things varied.
Taking months or years to level is fine. Twisting the same content is just had. Even old games had mentioned different areas and mobs to level in at any particular level to keep things varied.
Maybe the genre isn't for you.
https://sagaoflucimia.com/game/faq/
Staying in the same area doing the same things against the same mobs for weeks and months is just bad design.
We didn't "move on" from dungeons and come back later. We went in at the starting level, and we worked our way through, night after night, session after session, week after week, until we had leveled our way through an entire place, sometimes spending two to three months in a single dungeon before we moved on.
The way they were designed to be played.
Castle Mistmoore is a *great* example; you can start in the late teens and it can take you all the way to the late 40s. Been a long time ago, but I remember this being one of the longest, around four months, and we cleared every nook and cranny.
The Hole. Chardok. Howling Stones. Veksar. Temple of Droga. Greig's End. The Deep.
I could go on. So many dungoens that had level spans of 15-20 levels that were designed to maintain a group for many, many, many sessions as they worked their way through.
Our SoL gaming community even went back to Project 1999 in, I think it was 2016, as a social experiment that we streamed on Twitch. We went straight to Befallen at level 8-10, and then played over the next three weeks, 3-4 times per week, 2-3 hour sessions, and leveled to around 25.
Three weeks, without ever leaving the same dungeon, and that being in the modern era when we had maps, knew all the key locations, and didn't have to explore and figure things out.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
When in first appears it gets spashed in all of your ads, but once it drops off it's an award of no consequence.
Oh wait, you guys don't run ads....
Nevermind
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon