As the post mortem continues I wonder if anyone can answer what was for me the most baffling thing about the whole saga. A year or two back CoE issued a denouncement of the name a player had picked, apparently it was rather rude. This concerned them or maybe just Caspian so much that they issued an official statement about it. I can remember us all scratching our heads at the time and asking "they do know what players are like?"
There were further incidents later which made us question this again, this was a PvP MMO, do they realise how bad players can get? The impression I got was that Caspian was living in some sort of la la land where bad people do not exist. You don't have to be a grizzled gaming veteran like me to know players lie cheat and steal. In the real MMO land we learnt that all the way back in Ultima Online.
The only other explanation I can think of is that Caspian was trying to make a game for all players which seems the default template so much of gaming, not just MMOs is now built on. This one size fits all idea which has made gaming rather stale. I think he may have been trying to put out a PvP domain domination MMO but trying to appeal to PvE types who just want a carebear love in.
N.B. I should point out I am not a fan of open world PvP myself, Realm v Realm is the best way to do PvP.
Its true, Caspian never really understood the darker side of gamers/gaming, often believing those willing to pay big money to be part of the aristocracy would actually be "noble" in actions or deeds.
Character name picking order was based on the amount of "influence" a player had, meaning how much money they had spent.
When one of the highest level backers, a "king" I believe, intentionally "took" a name another high influence backer wanted (foolishly shared in public beforehand) Caspian was totally floored by the fact someone would do such a "dick" move.
He would be surprised again and again by the competitiveness and outright hostility "the community" would show outsiders.
Like during the DSS, multiple threads popped on the forums threatening any player who dared contemplate placing a Duke/Dutchy (or even a settlement) within "their" borders, (especially if they had a high picking order) without first consulting and getting permission from the "nobility" to do so.
It was clear most of the ivory tower had never really played kingdom conquest games like Lineage, Darkfall, Shadowbane, or EVE, including Caspian.
He spent a lot of time promising the "builders" an extensive system of controls would protect their "investment" from the ravaging hordes...yet in the end he had great hopes the masses would flock to COE and become willing vassals to the early aristocracy who he said could always be overthrown but then promised backers designs to make such difficult to actually do.
He was always talking out of both sides of his mouth, largely I think in order to keep the backer money flowing in, which he did manage to surprise me with how long it continued and how much they eventually gave him.
Yeah he seemed totally oblivious that many competitive gamers end up acting like clones of Sheldon Cooper when given control in a game world.
Given what went down with New World, the obliviousness of even seasoned developers no longer ceases to amaze me.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Terrible white knights in the coe community. Even now defending the company.
We got a Parkour Alpha 1 demo! Come buy more land! --- 1 week later we are quitting.
Caspian with his egg-head can not even apologize for his failure.
As the post mortem continues I wonder if anyone can answer what was for me the most baffling thing about the whole saga. A year or two back CoE issued a denouncement of the name a player had picked, apparently it was rather rude. This concerned them or maybe just Caspian so much that they issued an official statement about it. I can remember us all scratching our heads at the time and asking "they do know what players are like?"
There were further incidents later which made us question this again, this was a PvP MMO, do they realise how bad players can get? The impression I got was that Caspian was living in some sort of la la land where bad people do not exist. You don't have to be a grizzled gaming veteran like me to know players lie cheat and steal. In the real MMO land we learnt that all the way back in Ultima Online.
The only other explanation I can think of is that Caspian was trying to make a game for all players which seems the default template so much of gaming, not just MMOs is now built on. This one size fits all idea which has made gaming rather stale. I think he may have been trying to put out a PvP domain domination MMO but trying to appeal to PvE types who just want a carebear love in.
N.B. I should point out I am not a fan of open world PvP myself, Realm v Realm is the best way to do PvP.
Its true, Caspian never really understood the darker side of gamers/gaming, often believing those willing to pay big money to be part of the aristocracy would actually be "noble" in actions or deeds.
Character name picking order was based on the amount of "influence" a player had, meaning how much money they had spent.
When one of the highest level backers, a "king" I believe, intentionally "took" a name another high influence backer wanted (foolishly shared in public beforehand) Caspian was totally floored by the fact someone would do such a "dick" move.
He would be surprised again and again by the competitiveness and outright hostility "the community" would show outsiders.
Like during the DSS, multiple threads popped on the forums threatening any player who dared contemplate placing a Duke/Dutchy (or even a settlement) within "their" borders, (especially if they had a high picking order) without first consulting and getting permission from the "nobility" to do so.
It was clear most of the ivory tower had never really played kingdom conquest games like Lineage, Darkfall, Shadowbane, or EVE, including Caspian.
He spent a lot of time promising the "builders" an extensive system of controls would protect their "investment" from the ravaging hordes...yet in the end he had great hopes the masses would flock to COE and become willing vassals to the early aristocracy who he said could always be overthrown but then promised backers designs to make such difficult to actually do.
He was always talking out of both sides of his mouth, largely I think in order to keep the backer money flowing in, which he did manage to surprise me with how long it continued and how much they eventually gave him.
Yeah he seemed totally oblivious that many competitive gamers end up acting like clones of Sheldon Cooper when given control in a game world.
Given what went down with New World, the obliviousness of even seasoned developers no longer ceases to amaze me.
Seems to be pretty common in the industry. Developers appear to lack in, for lack of a better term, "digital street smarts." They at worst might expect a hand-full of bad apples to try to game their game, if they're even that aware, but always seem surprised when they discover that the bad apples come in bushels.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Lets be real, its about damn time this scam finally stopped. Anyone thinking this was actually going to ever come out to be something was naive.
Now all we need is Ashes to finally come out and say they aren't making an actual mmorpg and things will be a bit better. I get we're in a hard time from a global perspective, but to me that's all the more reason to not tolerate these scams any longer. Put your money into things that can actually get done or at the very least are showing you something EVERYTIME they are telling you something. Some people get so caught up in the words of these people without actually SEEING what is being made. If you have an awesome system, SHOW IT while you talk about it or don't say anything until you can.
No, we are in pre-alpha right now. There is no release date for neither beta nor alpha. Given the track record of the studio, they can't help but being over optimistic on release dates... so I think it is the right move not to make their own estimate public.
I logged into the CoE Discord server to see what people were talking about. In the general chat channel, most of the talk was about other, upcoming crowdfunded MMOs that people were planning to back. Unbelievable. This well is never going to run dry.
What a scam. I mean, how can you promise something with a budget of X, receive X and then say I couldn't deliver because X wasn't enough? That's 100% your fault for being unable to cost and manage a project to completion. This should be a warning to everyone out there who gets sucked in to hype and crowdfunds a game.
Budgets are forecasts, and thus fallible. Also, impactful external factors can't be predicted, and thus adjusted for, with absolute precision.
Not that it is necessarily the reason for shutting down the production of this game, I expect many if not all companies have had a negative impact from Covid-19 that they didn't budget for, so it is likely many projects will now have inadequate funding due to an external issue that couldn't have been reasonably predicted.
X can go from enough to not without having to be a matter of fault.
What a scam. I mean, how can you promise something with a budget of X, receive X and then say I couldn't deliver because X wasn't enough? That's 100% your fault for being unable to cost and manage a project to completion. This should be a warning to everyone out there who gets sucked in to hype and crowdfunds a game.
Budgets are forecasts, and thus fallible. Also, impactful external factors can't be predicted, and thus adjusted for, with absolute precision.
Not that it is necessarily the reason for shutting down the production of this game, I expect many if not all companies have had a negative impact from Covid-19 that they didn't budget for, so it is likely many projects will now have inadequate funding due to an external issue that couldn't have been reasonably predicted.
X can go from enough to not without having to be a matter of fault.
They received double X and didn't even get to an Alpha state... And X was stated to include all development and testing.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I guess Amazon's mmo is the next one? w/e they call it?
WTF New World has to do with backers and crowdfunding ? lol
Get your shit together and get your hate on something else.
"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know, that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom. (Death)” ― Terry Pratchett,
What a scam. I mean, how can you promise something with a budget of X, receive X and then say I couldn't deliver because X wasn't enough? That's 100% your fault for being unable to cost and manage a project to completion. This should be a warning to everyone out there who gets sucked in to hype and crowdfunds a game.
Budgets are forecasts, and thus fallible. Also, impactful external factors can't be predicted, and thus adjusted for, with absolute precision.
Not that it is necessarily the reason for shutting down the production of this game, I expect many if not all companies have had a negative impact from Covid-19 that they didn't budget for, so it is likely many projects will now have inadequate funding due to an external issue that couldn't have been reasonably predicted.
X can go from enough to not without having to be a matter of fault.
Oh, bullshit. Most of these crowdfunded indie MMO developers have had their funding for years and they haven't produced anything substantial. They were dishonest and failing long before Covid-19 ever became a factor. It does figure, though, that some of these scumbags will use the virus as a way to worm out of their obligations, and try to make themselves look like heroes in the process.
Using COVID-19 as the reason for the game failing probably bothers me the most. This last drive was so clearly a cash grab -- its disgusting.
Posted on 3/25/20:
"With unprecedented changes to society caused by the Covid-19 outbreak, and with economies beginning to suffer all around the world, I made the hard decision not to try and get additional crowdfunding."
Posted 3/11/20 (13 days prior to closing):
"After quite the adventure we're thrilled to announce our 45-day Dutch Auction event, Settlers of Elyria will officially begin tomorrow, March 14th! Over the course of the next month and a half, members of our community both new and old will have the opportunity to stake a land claim on any of our four servers and become a part of the history of Elyria!
...
ACT FAST OR MISS OUT"
The World Health Organization announced COVID-19 as a Public Health Emergency of International Concern on Jan 30.
COVID-19 was already in full swing on 3/11/20. So, pretending that COVID-19 was the reason they shut down, and pretending that they didn't want to ask for more money during COVID-19 is laughable -- they had been asking for money for months during COVID-19.
Truly disgusting to stand on the wallets of those effected by COVID-19 and declare that as the reason for their faiure as a company/leader. Words mean nothing. Anything short of a full refund for anyone having purchased in the last 6~ months is inadequate in my mind.
I am happy that some who backed now realize their mistakes,giving money to a game developer to build a game is total nonsense.
I see a large portion of the people in gaming need a head shake,i see twitch making millions off of player subs and donations,bits whatever has got into people's heads?
I just had this out of nowhere thought,where is that Rob guy ..lmao.
Then i looked around he works with garret and Bill in their SCHEMING business of making money from games through PR,BS and well you know the score. I said it before,marketing must be working because businesses are willing to spend millions ...billions on it.
It's funny and how naive people are,the lot of us pointing fingers at this one developer..lol,if they only knew how big a problem we have in gaming right now.The industry pushed cash shops onto us,loot boxes,crowd funded EA titles,it a very NON legit business.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Terrible white knights in the coe community. Even now defending the company.
We got a Parkour Alpha 1 demo! Come buy more land! --- 1 week later we are quitting.
Caspian with his egg-head can not even apologize for his failure.
Heard this through the grapevine (TM): So there was a link on the forums to a salary website that showed some mid 200k salaries for the company. Someone on twitter asked Walsh about it. Sniperhunter responded and said that they had some "Executive Level" positions that had to be paid a lot of money. Like a VP of Marketing.
Holy crap Batman.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
There is a Discord they created for a Class Action Suit against CoE. They are posting stuff from the NDA area and revealing tons of really concerning info about the company and who they were paying. If some of this stuff it true I will have to admit to being wrong about this just being a case of incompetence.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
There is a Discord they created for a Class Action Suit against CoE. They are posting stuff from the NDA area and revealing tons of really concerning info about the company and who they were paying. If some of this stuff it true I will have to admit to being wrong about this just being a case of incompetence.
You know I am always lurking to hear about some updates. You got my attention.
The thread in the CoE forum keeps going (who knows how long that will last?) and there are some very interesting details emerging there. One poster - presumably a backer - mentions that Caspian has now blocked backers' access to their transaction history and further info was provided by another user:
Someone on Discord said he [Caspian] came on, not sure if it was before or
after the last post and said he "accidentally" deleted all the info.
LOL.
I have a feeling all of us on the sidelines will have plenty of fun with this show for months and perhaps years to come!
Comments
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
pantheon
We got a Parkour Alpha 1 demo! Come buy more land! --- 1 week later we are quitting.
Caspian with his egg-head can not even apologize for his failure.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
And X was stated to include all development and testing.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
WTF New World has to do with backers and crowdfunding ? lol
Get your shit together and get your hate on something else.
― Terry Pratchett,
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Posted on 3/25/20:
"With unprecedented changes to society caused by the Covid-19 outbreak, and with economies beginning to suffer all around the world, I made the hard decision not to try and get additional crowdfunding."
Posted 3/11/20 (13 days prior to closing):
"After quite the adventure we're thrilled to announce our 45-day Dutch Auction event, Settlers of Elyria will officially begin tomorrow, March 14th! Over the course of the next month and a half, members of our community both new and old will have the opportunity to stake a land claim on any of our four servers and become a part of the history of Elyria!
...
ACT FAST OR MISS OUT"
The World Health Organization announced COVID-19 as a Public Health Emergency of International Concern on Jan 30.
COVID-19 was already in full swing on 3/11/20. So, pretending that COVID-19 was the reason they shut down, and pretending that they didn't want to ask for more money during COVID-19 is laughable -- they had been asking for money for months during COVID-19.
Truly disgusting to stand on the wallets of those effected by COVID-19 and declare that as the reason for their faiure as a company/leader. Words mean nothing. Anything short of a full refund for anyone having purchased in the last 6~ months is inadequate in my mind.
I see a large portion of the people in gaming need a head shake,i see twitch making millions off of player subs and donations,bits whatever has got into people's heads?
I just had this out of nowhere thought,where is that Rob guy ..lmao.
Then i looked around he works with garret and Bill in their SCHEMING business of making money from games through PR,BS and well you know the score.
I said it before,marketing must be working because businesses are willing to spend millions ...billions on it.
It's funny and how naive people are,the lot of us pointing fingers at this one developer..lol,if they only knew how big a problem we have in gaming right now.The industry pushed cash shops onto us,loot boxes,crowd funded EA titles,it a very NON legit business.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
This will not be the last.
AC2 Player RIP Final Death Jan 31st 2017
Refugee of Auberean
Refugee of Dereth
So there was a link on the forums to a salary website that showed some mid 200k salaries for the company. Someone on twitter asked Walsh about it. Sniperhunter responded and said that they had some "Executive Level" positions that had to be paid a lot of money. Like a VP of Marketing.
Holy crap Batman.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
You got my attention.
Share the information Harbinger.
I have a feeling all of us on the sidelines will have plenty of fun with this show for months and perhaps years to come!