Heard this through the grapevine (TM): So there was a link on the forums to a salary website that showed some mid 200k salaries for the company. Someone on twitter asked Walsh about it. Sniperhunter responded and said that they had some "Executive Level" positions that had to be paid a lot of money. Like a VP of Marketing.
Holy crap Batman.
Those are industry standard salaries, believe it or not.
However, that's where I keep shaking my head when I see yet another crowdfunding project go down the tubes (in AND out of the gaming industry), because it's like no one ever once thought that maybe, just maybe, doing what guys like Gates, Jobs, Musk, Vaynerchuk, and others have done, which is bootstrap without a salary and get your rewards on the *back end* after the product launches, is the smartest way to build your company from the ground up.
Not to toot my own horn (lie, I'm totally blaring my own horn), but that's one of the reasons our company is doing so well, despite the Coronavirus, and it's one of the ways we've proved our viability to investors, despite our "lack of industry experience".
Our "executive level" positions haven't seen a penny of salary since we started. And that includes me, who not only holds CEO title, but also Director of Marketing *and* Creative Director titles, all of which are quarter-million-dollar salary positions in and of themselves.
Only our contractors get paychecks until we launch. THEN myself and my partners get to start drawing salaries (and profit shares on the back end after investors get their cut, our compensation for 8 years of working for free on the project).
But even then, we're actually capping our salaries in years one through three until we are SURE we have a viable project, starting at well below 100k (but more than 50k) and then scaling up each year until we hit industry standards, but only *if* the product is doing well enough to justify such salaries.
It's not rocket science. If you want your company to be successful, you have to strip "titles" out of the equation and focus on what's good for the company, not C-level salaries.
There is a Discord they created for a Class Action Suit against CoE. They are posting stuff from the NDA area and revealing tons of really concerning info about the company and who they were paying. If some of this stuff it true I will have to admit to being wrong about this just being a case of incompetence.
Here's the thing though.
From a legal, *technical* standpoint, the bullshit parkour level they released to everyone the other day counts as a "product", so it's going to be hard for any type of legal action to take place given that they did, in fact, technically, and as far as the law is concerned, release a product to their backers.
Was it what they were promised? Fuuuck no.
But was it "something" as far as their terms of service go?
That's where the legal challenge rests. And it's why I find it highly unlikely that anyone will ever be able to prove they actually broke any laws, regardless of how shitty the ending of this has all played out for folks who gave SBS any money.
There is a Discord they created for a Class Action Suit against CoE. They are posting stuff from the NDA area and revealing tons of really concerning info about the company and who they were paying. If some of this stuff it true I will have to admit to being wrong about this just being a case of incompetence.
You know I am always lurking to hear about some updates. You got my attention.
Share the information Harbinger.
I don’t know what is true and what is not. But some of the stuff is eye opening. Like paying family members a quarter of a million dollars a year. Deleting all transaction logs. This could be a real test of what is simple incompetence and what is outright fraud. I always strongly felt it was the first, but now I’m not so sure.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Heard this through the grapevine (TM): So there was a link on the forums to a salary website that showed some mid 200k salaries for the company. Someone on twitter asked Walsh about it. Sniperhunter responded and said that they had some "Executive Level" positions that had to be paid a lot of money. Like a VP of Marketing.
Holy crap Batman.
Those salary figures came from Paysa, a company very much like Sooperdata which uses super secret algorithms, "machine learning" and "AI" to extrapolate their numbers.
Google had numerous threads saying Paysa numbers were unrealistically overstated with a number of people agreeing GlassDoor and some others being far more realistic.
One recent article named the Top Ten salary sites with Paysa not even listed.
GlassDoor was felt by some to be on the low side so it was suggested candidates should split the difference between the two.
With SBS being a totally private company which doesn't have to report financials, where would Paysa or anyone else get data points.
I actually read some of SBS studios employment ads over the years and I don't recall them including salary ranges, much less specific figures.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
There is a Discord they created for a Class Action Suit against CoE. They are posting stuff from the NDA area and revealing tons of really concerning info about the company and who they were paying. If some of this stuff it true I will have to admit to being wrong about this just being a case of incompetence.
Here's the thing though.
From a legal, *technical* standpoint, the bullshit parkour level they released to everyone the other day counts as a "product", so it's going to be hard for any type of legal action to take place given that they did, in fact, technically, and as far as the law is concerned, release a product to their backers.
Was it what they were promised? Fuuuck no.
But was it "something" as far as their terms of service go?
That's where the legal challenge rests. And it's why I find it highly unlikely that anyone will ever be able to prove they actually broke any laws, regardless of how shitty the ending of this has all played out for folks who gave SBS any money.
As I said, I think it comes down to a determination of fraud vs incompetence. If you as the head of the company are openly lying about conditions at the company in order to raise money which you funnel to yourself and family members, then I think that results in legitimate jeopardy. And if you used those proceeds to buy a new house, etc... I would expect that those items could also be in jeopardy.
If you are just a dipshit that sucks at planning and piss the money away due to incompetence, well then I think it's unlikely that they win.
I would love to see those arguments though. Apparently these guys running the Discord have sensed something as up for a long time as they have a huge info package put together and sent to a lawyer already. That is in addition to petitioning the Washington State AG.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
There is a Discord they created for a Class Action Suit against CoE. They are posting stuff from the NDA area and revealing tons of really concerning info about the company and who they were paying. If some of this stuff it true I will have to admit to being wrong about this just being a case of incompetence.
Here's the thing though.
From a legal, *technical* standpoint, the bullshit parkour level they released to everyone the other day counts as a "product", so it's going to be hard for any type of legal action to take place given that they did, in fact, technically, and as far as the law is concerned, release a product to their backers.
Was it what they were promised? Fuuuck no.
But was it "something" as far as their terms of service go?
That's where the legal challenge rests. And it's why I find it highly unlikely that anyone will ever be able to prove they actually broke any laws, regardless of how shitty the ending of this has all played out for folks who gave SBS any money.
As I said, I think it comes down to a determination of fraud vs incompetence. If you as the head of the company are openly lying about conditions at the company in order to raise money which you funnel to yourself and family members, then I think that results in legitimate jeopardy. And if you used those proceeds to buy a new house, etc... I would expect that those items could also be in jeopardy.
If you are just a dipshit that sucks at planning and piss the money away due to incompetence, well then I think it's unlikely that they win.
I would love to see those arguments though. Apparently these guys running the Discord have sensed something as up for a long time as they have a huge info package put together and sent to a lawyer already. That is in addition to petitioning the Washington State AG.
Heard this through the grapevine (TM): So there was a link on the forums to a salary website that showed some mid 200k salaries for the company. Someone on twitter asked Walsh about it. Sniperhunter responded and said that they had some "Executive Level" positions that had to be paid a lot of money. Like a VP of Marketing.
Holy crap Batman.
Those salary figures came from Paysa, a company very much like Sooperdata which uses super secret algorithms, "machine learning" and "AI" to extrapolate their numbers.
Google had numerous threads saying Paysa numbers were unrealistically overstated with a number of people agreeing GlassDoor and some others being far more realistic.
One recent article named the Top Ten salary sites with Paysa not even listed.
GlassDoor was felt by some to be on the low side so it was suggested candidates should split the difference between the two.
With SBS being a totally private company which doesn't have to report financials, where would Paysa or anyone else get data points.
I actually read some of SBS studios employment ads over the years and I don't recall them including salary ranges, much less specific figures.
Oh, I do not doubt that the bottom tier employees were making industry-standard or less. It's these nebulous "Executive Level" positions that have raised my interest. Needless to say, I doubt you saw those posted on any job sites. How many were there? Who staffed them?
As I said. I do not know the truth, but for the first time, I am actually starting to believe this is not simple incompetence. And you can go back through the years, I think previously I had been very consistent in stating that I always believed this was pure mismanagement and not fraud.
I do not claim to know the truth (yet), but man if I had put money into this game I would be absolutely pissed right now.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
There is a Discord they created for a Class Action Suit against CoE. They are posting stuff from the NDA area and revealing tons of really concerning info about the company and who they were paying. If some of this stuff it true I will have to admit to being wrong about this just being a case of incompetence.
Here's the thing though.
From a legal, *technical* standpoint, the bullshit parkour level they released to everyone the other day counts as a "product", so it's going to be hard for any type of legal action to take place given that they did, in fact, technically, and as far as the law is concerned, release a product to their backers.
Was it what they were promised? Fuuuck no.
But was it "something" as far as their terms of service go?
That's where the legal challenge rests. And it's why I find it highly unlikely that anyone will ever be able to prove they actually broke any laws, regardless of how shitty the ending of this has all played out for folks who gave SBS any money.
As I said, I think it comes down to a determination of fraud vs incompetence. If you as the head of the company are openly lying about conditions at the company in order to raise money which you funnel to yourself and family members, then I think that results in legitimate jeopardy. And if you used those proceeds to buy a new house, etc... I would expect that those items could also be in jeopardy.
If you are just a dipshit that sucks at planning and piss the money away due to incompetence, well then I think it's unlikely that they win.
I would love to see those arguments though. Apparently these guys running the Discord have sensed something as up for a long time as they have a huge info package put together and sent to a lawyer already. That is in addition to petitioning the Washington State AG.
Ahh, now you are talking about piercing the corporate veil, not so easy to do depending on the relevant laws involved.
I know when Garriott basically bailed and GTFO it was pointed out Texas courts rarely are willing to pierce the veil, probably one reason company was incorporated there instead of NY where Richard actually has lived for a long time.
All sorts of rumors floating around about Caspian living in a new, gated community palatial home, drawing huge salaries and funneling money into his basement bank vaults, but I'd question the sources before setting the fires to boil the pitch and plucking the poor chickens.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
There is a Discord they created for a Class Action Suit against CoE. They are posting stuff from the NDA area and revealing tons of really concerning info about the company and who they were paying. If some of this stuff it true I will have to admit to being wrong about this just being a case of incompetence.
Here's the thing though.
From a legal, *technical* standpoint, the bullshit parkour level they released to everyone the other day counts as a "product", so it's going to be hard for any type of legal action to take place given that they did, in fact, technically, and as far as the law is concerned, release a product to their backers.
Was it what they were promised? Fuuuck no.
But was it "something" as far as their terms of service go?
That's where the legal challenge rests. And it's why I find it highly unlikely that anyone will ever be able to prove they actually broke any laws, regardless of how shitty the ending of this has all played out for folks who gave SBS any money.
As I said, I think it comes down to a determination of fraud vs incompetence. If you as the head of the company are openly lying about conditions at the company in order to raise money which you funnel to yourself and family members, then I think that results in legitimate jeopardy. And if you used those proceeds to buy a new house, etc... I would expect that those items could also be in jeopardy.
If you are just a dipshit that sucks at planning and piss the money away due to incompetence, well then I think it's unlikely that they win.
I would love to see those arguments though. Apparently these guys running the Discord have sensed something as up for a long time as they have a huge info package put together and sent to a lawyer already. That is in addition to petitioning the Washington State AG.
Kickstarter has rules that a failed project must "demonstrate that they’ve used funds appropriately and made every reasonable effort to complete the project as promised"
If any of the Kickstarter backers take the project to court over that, they will likely be able to force Soulbound Studios into an audit on how the money was used.
I love how people who cry about JW blaming others, were the first ones to throw stones at others on these forums for the game failing.
Always a joy watching the drama.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
There is a Discord they created for a Class Action Suit against CoE. They are posting stuff from the NDA area and revealing tons of really concerning info about the company and who they were paying. If some of this stuff it true I will have to admit to being wrong about this just being a case of incompetence.
Here's the thing though.
From a legal, *technical* standpoint, the bullshit parkour level they released to everyone the other day counts as a "product", so it's going to be hard for any type of legal action to take place given that they did, in fact, technically, and as far as the law is concerned, release a product to their backers.
Was it what they were promised? Fuuuck no.
But was it "something" as far as their terms of service go?
That's where the legal challenge rests. And it's why I find it highly unlikely that anyone will ever be able to prove they actually broke any laws, regardless of how shitty the ending of this has all played out for folks who gave SBS any money.
As I said, I think it comes down to a determination of fraud vs incompetence. If you as the head of the company are openly lying about conditions at the company in order to raise money which you funnel to yourself and family members, then I think that results in legitimate jeopardy. And if you used those proceeds to buy a new house, etc... I would expect that those items could also be in jeopardy.
If you are just a dipshit that sucks at planning and piss the money away due to incompetence, well then I think it's unlikely that they win.
I would love to see those arguments though. Apparently these guys running the Discord have sensed something as up for a long time as they have a huge info package put together and sent to a lawyer already. That is in addition to petitioning the Washington State AG.
Kickstarter has rules that a failed project must "demonstrate that they’ve used funds appropriately and made every reasonable effort to complete the project as promised"
If any of the Kickstarter backers take the project to court over that, they will likely be able to force Soulbound Studios into an audit on how the money was used.
I believe that is the plan. The lawsuit discord has been discussing the idea that he paid multiple family members (wife, sister, maybe more) for things like community outreach and marketing. Jeromy so far has not responded to those allegations on twitter despite having a meltdown earlier. I think they just want to see where the money went and if there was any fraud.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
He can probably even provide a legal argument, if it comes to that, that he felt the safety of his employees was paramount to finishing the game.
The courts aren't that stupid. The actions taken because of coronavirus need to be reasonable to be accepted - such as delaying the project or cutting something because of the extra work and costs caused by coronvirus. No court is going to accept the nuclear option that you needed to abandon a multi-year software development project because of this.
There is a Discord they created for a Class Action Suit against CoE. They are posting stuff from the NDA area and revealing tons of really concerning info about the company and who they were paying. If some of this stuff it true I will have to admit to being wrong about this just being a case of incompetence.
Here's the thing though.
From a legal, *technical* standpoint, the bullshit parkour level they released to everyone the other day counts as a "product", so it's going to be hard for any type of legal action to take place given that they did, in fact, technically, and as far as the law is concerned, release a product to their backers.
Was it what they were promised? Fuuuck no.
But was it "something" as far as their terms of service go?
That's where the legal challenge rests. And it's why I find it highly unlikely that anyone will ever be able to prove they actually broke any laws, regardless of how shitty the ending of this has all played out for folks who gave SBS any money.
As I said, I think it comes down to a determination of fraud vs incompetence. If you as the head of the company are openly lying about conditions at the company in order to raise money which you funnel to yourself and family members, then I think that results in legitimate jeopardy. And if you used those proceeds to buy a new house, etc... I would expect that those items could also be in jeopardy.
If you are just a dipshit that sucks at planning and piss the money away due to incompetence, well then I think it's unlikely that they win.
I would love to see those arguments though. Apparently these guys running the Discord have sensed something as up for a long time as they have a huge info package put together and sent to a lawyer already. That is in addition to petitioning the Washington State AG.
Kickstarter has rules that a failed project must "demonstrate that they’ve used funds appropriately and made every reasonable effort to complete the project as promised"
If any of the Kickstarter backers take the project to court over that, they will likely be able to force Soulbound Studios into an audit on how the money was used.
I believe that is the plan. The lawsuit discord has been discussing the idea that he paid multiple family members (wife, sister, maybe more) for things like community outreach and marketing. Jeromy so far has not responded to those allegations on twitter despite having a meltdown earlier. I think they just want to see where the money went and if there was any fraud.
That's true kickstarter has that in there. But if they show records that they were paying each employee $137,000 per year for instance and paying rent etc. Then they can easily prove that. Do I think this was fraud? For sure it was fraud. That's because they could have paid themselves all that salary and sat in the office everyday doing nothing cept playing around with polygon models and doodling on the computer. The problem is taking it to court and proving fraud. They could show and claim that all that money went to paying salary, office, rent etc. .
Do I think the Big salaries were created on purpose? More than likely, the question is how do you prove in court what they did is fraud? It has to be proven in court, you can't just say I believe it is. Even though, let's be honest what they released as an alpha product is purely fraud. They could have put that together in a few days. Plus what they revealed as graphics/gameplay in the kickstarter is better than what they showed later on as alpha gameplay.
I would give you a guest pass to SWOTR, but then I wouldn't be able to find a way to live with myself afterwards....
He can probably even provide a legal argument, if it comes to that, that he felt the safety of his employees was paramount to finishing the game.
The courts aren't that stupid. The actions taken because of coronavirus need to be reasonable to be accepted - such as delaying the project or cutting something because of the extra work and costs caused by coronvirus. No court is going to accept the nuclear option that you needed to abandon a multi-year software development project because of this.
the nuclear option that you needed to abandon a multi-year software development project because of this.
In a few weeks there will be quite literally hundreds, if not thousands, of examples of exactly this happening.
Thousands of small businesses will go under due to COVID, especially ones that don't qualify for or receive any part of the stimulus package.
His lawyers will bring in reams of evidence showing non-essential businesses, such as gaming companies, about his companies size, all closing due to COVID-19.
It was the perfect time for him to get away scott free.
Now do I agree with this? Not at all. I think he's a thief that suckered a lot of people into giving him tens of thousands of dollars. But then again, that's a risk you take when you crowd fun a project.
I will never crowd fund a video game again in my life and I only did it once with Mechwarrior Online. I learned my lesson at the low low cost of $100 instead of $10,000 for a vaporware kingdom.
He can probably even provide a legal argument, if it comes to that, that he felt the safety of his employees was paramount to finishing the game.
The courts aren't that stupid. The actions taken because of coronavirus need to be reasonable to be accepted - such as delaying the project or cutting something because of the extra work and costs caused by coronvirus. No court is going to accept the nuclear option that you needed to abandon a multi-year software development project because of this.
the nuclear option that you needed to abandon a multi-year software development project because of this.
In a few weeks there will be quite literally hundreds, if not thousands, of examples of exactly this happening.
Thousands of small businesses will go under due to COVID, especially ones that don't qualify for or receive any part of the stimulus package.
His lawyers will bring in reams of evidence showing non-essential businesses, such as gaming companies, about his companies size, all closing due to COVID-19.
It was the perfect time for him to get away scott free.
Now do I agree with this? Not at all. I think he's a thief that suckered a lot of people into giving him tens of thousands of dollars. But then again, that's a risk you take when you crowd fun a project.
I will never crowd fund a video game again in my life and I only did it once with Mechwarrior Online. I learned my lesson at the low low cost of $100 instead of $10,000 for a vaporware kingdom.
Recession does not qualify as force majeure, even if it is due to coronavirus.
I'm not doubting CoE's ability to prove that they can't continue because they don't have enough money to do it, but it'll be treated just as a company going insolvent, not as company being unable to continue due to employee health risks or other similar reasons.
There is a Discord they created for a Class Action Suit against CoE. They are posting stuff from the NDA area and revealing tons of really concerning info about the company and who they were paying. If some of this stuff it true I will have to admit to being wrong about this just being a case of incompetence.
Here's the thing though.
From a legal, *technical* standpoint, the bullshit parkour level they released to everyone the other day counts as a "product", so it's going to be hard for any type of legal action to take place given that they did, in fact, technically, and as far as the law is concerned, release a product to their backers.
Was it what they were promised? Fuuuck no.
But was it "something" as far as their terms of service go?
That's where the legal challenge rests. And it's why I find it highly unlikely that anyone will ever be able to prove they actually broke any laws, regardless of how shitty the ending of this has all played out for folks who gave SBS any money.
As I said, I think it comes down to a determination of fraud vs incompetence. If you as the head of the company are openly lying about conditions at the company in order to raise money which you funnel to yourself and family members, then I think that results in legitimate jeopardy. And if you used those proceeds to buy a new house, etc... I would expect that those items could also be in jeopardy.
If you are just a dipshit that sucks at planning and piss the money away due to incompetence, well then I think it's unlikely that they win.
I would love to see those arguments though. Apparently these guys running the Discord have sensed something as up for a long time as they have a huge info package put together and sent to a lawyer already. That is in addition to petitioning the Washington State AG.
Kickstarter has rules that a failed project must "demonstrate that they’ve used funds appropriately and made every reasonable effort to complete the project as promised"
If any of the Kickstarter backers take the project to court over that, they will likely be able to force Soulbound Studios into an audit on how the money was used.
I believe that is the plan. The lawsuit discord has been discussing the idea that he paid multiple family members (wife, sister, maybe more) for things like community outreach and marketing. Jeromy so far has not responded to those allegations on twitter despite having a meltdown earlier. I think they just want to see where the money went and if there was any fraud.
That's true kickstarter has that in there. But if they show records that they were paying each employee $137,000 per year for instance and paying rent etc. Then they can easily prove that. Do I think this was fraud? For sure it was fraud. That's because they could have paid themselves all that salary and sat in the office everyday doing nothing cept playing around with polygon models and doodling on the computer. The problem is taking it to court and proving fraud. They could show and claim that all that money went to paying salary, office, rent etc. .
Do I think the Big salaries were created on purpose? More than likely, the question is how do you prove in court what they did is fraud? It has to be proven in court, you can't just say I believe it is. Even though, let's be honest what they released as an alpha product is purely fraud. They could have put that together in a few days. Plus what they revealed as graphics/gameplay in the kickstarter is better than what they showed later on as alpha gameplay.
What if the highest paid person in the company was your wife who was working part-time on the project while also holding a full-time job as a local politician? What if you were asked to show how that money was justified? Especially since the primary function of a VP Marketing would be raising funds, which ran out. Maybe he has the answers to those questions. It will be interesting to see.
Pretty interesting questions being asked over there. The 10k videos are a hoot.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
On the notion of paying family members salaries,that is perfectly legal.IMO it shouldn't be but this is exactly what goes on in most businesses.My boss pays all of his family salaries for fake jobs.
I assume most are also very naive to how charities work,if you really understood it all,nobody would give money to charities anymore,i know i don't and i used to be heavy into charity donations.
What makes me laugh though,is sure this guy could have faked all of it,pulled off some visuals or whatever and people are like....oh he could have done that in a week's worth of work.I see this very same thing in 99% of the games i see,they are all piles of junk,there are only a very small handful of games that look legit.
The industry seems to have a LOT of people fooled,right now game devs could sell a half roll of toilet paper to people for $50 and they would be like...OH this is amazing,best roll i have ever bought,such a bargain.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
However, that's where I keep shaking my head when I see yet another crowdfunding project go down the tubes (in AND out of the gaming industry), because it's like no one ever once thought that maybe, just maybe, doing what guys like Gates, Jobs, Musk, Vaynerchuk, and others have done, which is bootstrap without a salary and get your rewards on the *back end* after the product launches, is the smartest way to build your company from the ground up.
Not to toot my own horn (lie, I'm totally blaring my own horn), but that's one of the reasons our company is doing so well, despite the Coronavirus, and it's one of the ways we've proved our viability to investors, despite our "lack of industry experience".
Our "executive level" positions haven't seen a penny of salary since we started. And that includes me, who not only holds CEO title, but also Director of Marketing *and* Creative Director titles, all of which are quarter-million-dollar salary positions in and of themselves.
Only our contractors get paychecks until we launch. THEN myself and my partners get to start drawing salaries (and profit shares on the back end after investors get their cut, our compensation for 8 years of working for free on the project).
But even then, we're actually capping our salaries in years one through three until we are SURE we have a viable project, starting at well below 100k (but more than 50k) and then scaling up each year until we hit industry standards, but only *if* the product is doing well enough to justify such salaries.
It's not rocket science. If you want your company to be successful, you have to strip "titles" out of the equation and focus on what's good for the company, not C-level salaries.
From a legal, *technical* standpoint, the bullshit parkour level they released to everyone the other day counts as a "product", so it's going to be hard for any type of legal action to take place given that they did, in fact, technically, and as far as the law is concerned, release a product to their backers.
Was it what they were promised? Fuuuck no.
But was it "something" as far as their terms of service go?
That's where the legal challenge rests. And it's why I find it highly unlikely that anyone will ever be able to prove they actually broke any laws, regardless of how shitty the ending of this has all played out for folks who gave SBS any money.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
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Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Google had numerous threads saying Paysa numbers were unrealistically overstated with a number of people agreeing GlassDoor and some others being far more realistic.
One recent article named the Top Ten salary sites with Paysa not even listed.
GlassDoor was felt by some to be on the low side so it was suggested candidates should split the difference between the two.
With SBS being a totally private company which doesn't have to report financials, where would Paysa or anyone else get data points.
I actually read some of SBS studios employment ads over the years and I don't recall them including salary ranges, much less specific figures.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If you are just a dipshit that sucks at planning and piss the money away due to incompetence, well then I think it's unlikely that they win.
I would love to see those arguments though. Apparently these guys running the Discord have sensed something as up for a long time as they have a huge info package put together and sent to a lawyer already. That is in addition to petitioning the Washington State AG.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
As I said. I do not know the truth, but for the first time, I am actually starting to believe this is not simple incompetence. And you can go back through the years, I think previously I had been very consistent in stating that I always believed this was pure mismanagement and not fraud.
I do not claim to know the truth (yet), but man if I had put money into this game I would be absolutely pissed right now.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I know when Garriott basically bailed and GTFO it was pointed out Texas courts rarely are willing to pierce the veil, probably one reason company was incorporated there instead of NY where Richard actually has lived for a long time.
All sorts of rumors floating around about Caspian living in a new, gated community palatial home, drawing huge salaries and funneling money into his basement bank vaults, but I'd question the sources before setting the fires to boil the pitch and plucking the poor chickens.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"demonstrate that they’ve used funds appropriately and made every reasonable effort to complete the project as promised"
Source: https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use/sept2014
If any of the Kickstarter backers take the project to court over that, they will likely be able to force Soulbound Studios into an audit on how the money was used.
I love his #3 response... what a douche
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
He can probably even provide a legal argument, if it comes to that, that he felt the safety of his employees was paramount to finishing the game.
Always a joy watching the drama.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Do I think the Big salaries were created on purpose? More than likely, the question is how do you prove in court what they did is fraud? It has to be proven in court, you can't just say I believe it is. Even though, let's be honest what they released as an alpha product is purely fraud. They could have put that together in a few days. Plus what they revealed as graphics/gameplay in the kickstarter is better than what they showed later on as alpha gameplay.
I would give you a guest pass to SWOTR, but then I wouldn't be able to find a way to live with myself afterwards....
In a few weeks there will be quite literally hundreds, if not thousands, of examples of exactly this happening.
Thousands of small businesses will go under due to COVID, especially ones that don't qualify for or receive any part of the stimulus package.
His lawyers will bring in reams of evidence showing non-essential businesses, such as gaming companies, about his companies size, all closing due to COVID-19.
It was the perfect time for him to get away scott free.
Now do I agree with this? Not at all. I think he's a thief that suckered a lot of people into giving him tens of thousands of dollars. But then again, that's a risk you take when you crowd fun a project.
I will never crowd fund a video game again in my life and I only did it once with Mechwarrior Online. I learned my lesson at the low low cost of $100 instead of $10,000 for a vaporware kingdom.
I'm not doubting CoE's ability to prove that they can't continue because they don't have enough money to do it, but it'll be treated just as a company going insolvent, not as company being unable to continue due to employee health risks or other similar reasons.
Pretty interesting questions being asked over there. The 10k videos are a hoot.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I assume most are also very naive to how charities work,if you really understood it all,nobody would give money to charities anymore,i know i don't and i used to be heavy into charity donations.
What makes me laugh though,is sure this guy could have faked all of it,pulled off some visuals or whatever and people are like....oh he could have done that in a week's worth of work.I see this very same thing in 99% of the games i see,they are all piles of junk,there are only a very small handful of games that look legit.
The industry seems to have a LOT of people fooled,right now game devs could sell a half roll of toilet paper to people for $50 and they would be like...OH this is amazing,best roll i have ever bought,such a bargain.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Sue the piss out of them.
Our greatest glory is not in never falling but in rising everytime we fall.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018