I honestly hope nothing comes of this, not because I want to see Jeromy Walsh get away with anything but because a lot of that responsibility falls on the backers themselves. The fact that they can throw money at a project like this and continue to do it when there's very little progress being made and nobody is asking any questions... It's their own fault. So I don't think litigation should be used in the face of many of these backers having zero personal responsibility.
I'm one of the backers and spent around 1.2K in Canadian dollars. I know it's far from some people out there but I totally agree with your post. I knew from the start I was gambling my money and if they were to "F" everyone it would be 100% my fault. Nothing obligated me to give my own money to a non existing game and this applies to every backers out there whatever the amount. 1 $ or 10000000000$ is the same . You gave it away knowing everything at stake. I don't even understand how this could go forward at all but hey, let them try I guess. I learned from my mistake here and never again will I do something this stupid.
I honestly hope nothing comes of this, not because I want to see Jeromy Walsh get away with anything but because a lot of that responsibility falls on the backers themselves. The fact that they can throw money at a project like this and continue to do it when there's very little progress being made and nobody is asking any questions... It's their own fault. So I don't think litigation should be used in the face of many of these backers having zero personal responsibility.
I'm one of the backers and spent around 1.2K in Canadian dollars. I know it's far from some people out there but I totally agree with your post. I knew from the start I was gambling my money and if they were to "F" everyone it would be 100% my fault. Nothing obligated me to give my own money to a non existing game and this applies to every backers out there whatever the amount. 1 $ or 10000000000$ is the same . You gave it away knowing everything at stake. I don't even understand how this could go forward at all but hey, let them try I guess. I learned from my mistake here and never again will I do something this stupid.
The victim blaming is strong with this one.
Please LOL at this post if you are an idiot.
Victim blaming? What on earth are you talking about. I'm just saying there no point to try to get our money back, well I was mainly talking about mine, because I think I made this decision by myself, no one had a gun to my head so therefore I'm not going to fight to get my money back so what in the hell are you blabbering about ?
I honestly hope nothing comes of this, not because I want to see Jeromy Walsh get away with anything but because a lot of that responsibility falls on the backers themselves. The fact that they can throw money at a project like this and continue to do it when there's very little progress being made and nobody is asking any questions... It's their own fault. So I don't think litigation should be used in the face of many of these backers having zero personal responsibility.
I'm one of the backers and spent around 1.2K in Canadian dollars. I know it's far from some people out there but I totally agree with your post. I knew from the start I was gambling my money and if they were to "F" everyone it would be 100% my fault. Nothing obligated me to give my own money to a non existing game and this applies to every backers out there whatever the amount. 1 $ or 10000000000$ is the same . You gave it away knowing everything at stake. I don't even understand how this could go forward at all but hey, let them try I guess. I learned from my mistake here and never again will I do something this stupid.
The victim blaming is strong with this one.
Please LOL at this post if you are an idiot.
Victim blaming? What on earth are you talking about. I'm just saying there no point to try to get our money back, well I was mainly talking about mine, because I think I made this decision by myself, no one had a gun to my head so therefore I'm not going to fight to get my money back so what in the hell are you blabbering about ?
Blabbering about the part where you completely absolve Caspian of any responsibility by saying " if they were to "F" everyone it would be 100% my fault." Maybe you should read your own post.
I'm going to donate tons of money and then demand my money back. If they wont give it back, well ill just sue them!
this is almost a child like look at what has actually ocurred with thtis game. The level of smokey mirrors Soul Bound used to generate revenue on items that never existed.
Bernie Maddof comes to mind when actually thinking about what soulbound did.
In the quoted opinion, that user believes Bernie Maddof should not be in jail, just fake investment nothing to see here.
its called donation for a reason. If they are not smart enough to make better decisions with their money then its nobodys fault but their own. Dont donate money to crowdfunded games if youre expecting a return.
I'm going to donate tons of money and then demand my money back. If they wont give it back, well ill just sue them!
this is almost a child like look at what has actually ocurred with thtis game. The level of smokey mirrors Soul Bound used to generate revenue on items that never existed.
Bernie Maddof comes to mind when actually thinking about what soulbound did.
In the quoted opinion, that user believes Bernie Maddof should not be in jail, just fake investment nothing to see here.
its called donation for a reason. If they are not smart enough to make better decisions with their money then its nobodys fault but their own. Dont donate money to crowdfunded games if youre expecting a return.
The ignorance here is staggering.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I'm going to donate tons of money and then demand my money back. If they wont give it back, well ill just sue them!
OK, say we count all the Kickstarter funds as pure donations with no recourse for recovery. That was only part of the money SBS raised. What about all the revenue they got in exchange for future in-game items?
None of us are attorneys with expertise in this area. Even if we were, the outcome of potential lawsuits or prosecution wouldn't be known to us. The law is always open to interpretation. At this point, I have no idea what will happen, but I am interested in seeing if the AG pursues things. I didn't put a penny into this game, but I'm interested in the implications for current and future crowdfunded MMOs.
I'm going to donate tons of money and then demand my money back. If they wont give it back, well ill just sue them!
this is almost a child like look at what has actually ocurred with thtis game. The level of smokey mirrors Soul Bound used to generate revenue on items that never existed.
Bernie Maddof comes to mind when actually thinking about what soulbound did.
In the quoted opinion, that user believes Bernie Maddof should not be in jail, just fake investment nothing to see here.
its called donation for a reason. If they are not smart enough to make better decisions with their money then its nobodys fault but their own. Dont donate money to crowdfunded games if youre expecting a return.
Legally speaking, it's not a donation.
A donation is made without return consideration, or in exchange of something that's small value compared to that donation or mostly symbolic. Crowdfunding rewards that are part of the agreement are too valuable that it would qualify.
If something does not qualify as a donation, the parties can not agree otherwise. Both parties can call it a donation all they want, but legislation never treats it as a donation because otherwise that would allow businesses a loophole which could be used to circumvent other laws about stuff like warranty and product safety.
People love to flame their fellow man for not being careful enough and for paying insufficient attention. And that is what it is. But it doesn't mean we simply let bad actors off the hook.
I just think it's a hard case to make, because at the end of the day some effort - however lousy - was made to make the game.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
People love to flame their fellow man for not being careful enough and for paying insufficient attention. And that is what it is. But it doesn't mean we simply let bad actors off the hook.
I just think it's a hard case to make, because at the end of the day some effort - however lousy - was made to make the game.
That's why I go back to:
Fraud is generally defined in the law as an intentional misrepresentation of material existing fact made by one person to another with knowledge of its falsity and for the purpose of inducing the other person to act, and upon which the other person relies with resulting injury or damage. Fraud may also be made by an omission or purposeful failure to state material facts, which nondisclosure makes other statements misleading.
If his statements/actions fit that criteria then there will be a case. If not, then there won't be.
From what I understand, multiple lawyers have said that they believe there is a case to pursue BUT since the company is probably out of money there is really no payment for them so they are not eager to jump on the case.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
People love to flame their fellow man for not being careful enough and for paying insufficient attention. And that is what it is. But it doesn't mean we simply let bad actors off the hook.
I just think it's a hard case to make, because at the end of the day some effort - however lousy - was made to make the game.
That's why I go back to:
Fraud is generally defined in the law as an intentional misrepresentation of material existing fact made by one person to another with knowledge of its falsity and for the purpose of inducing the other person to act, and upon which the other person relies with resulting injury or damage. Fraud may also be made by an omission or purposeful failure to state material facts, which nondisclosure makes other statements misleading.
If his statements/actions fit that criteria then there will be a case. If not, then there won't be.
From what I understand, multiple lawyers have said that they believe there is a case to pursue BUT since the company is probably out of money there is really no payment for them so they are not eager to jump on the case.
Criminal prosecution for fraud is one thing and that's what the Attorney General complaints are all about. Civil suits are something else altogether and you can't get blood from a stone.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I put $500 towards a game called Repopulation. While I may never see the game we were promised, it's at least available on STEAM and even had a recent update.
Soulbound Studios never even put out a product. So with that being said, their initial kickstarter was unrealistic. I know for a fact I made the point that you won't see the MMO they promised from only $1 million.
That means, kickstarter projects need to be regulated because people are advertising products for a lot less than what it would take to create them. If Soulbound Studios asked for $15 or $20 million, of course they'll never reach their goal, or maybe they would. Who knows.
Undercutting your project costs via crowdfunding is in itself a scam. They made a promise to deliver a product. They achieved their kickstarter goal. They never delivered on the product. Therefor, they need to be held financially responsible, much like Kurt Schilling had to be held accountable to Rhode Island.
The question some people have been asking is whether or not they put out the parkour demo just so they could technically say they produced...something.
I put $500 towards a game called Repopulation. While I may never see the game we were promised, it's at least available on STEAM and even had a recent update.
Soulbound Studios never even put out a product. So with that being said, their initial kickstarter was unrealistic. I know for a fact I made the point that you won't see the MMO they promised from only $1 million.
That means, kickstarter projects need to be regulated because people are advertising products for a lot less than what it would take to create them. If Soulbound Studios asked for $15 or $20 million, of course they'll never reach their goal, or maybe they would. Who knows.
Undercutting your project costs via crowdfunding is in itself a scam. They made a promise to deliver a product. They achieved their kickstarter goal. They never delivered on the product. Therefor, they need to be held financially responsible, much like Kurt Schilling had to be held accountable to Rhode Island.
The question some people have been asking is whether or not they put out the parkour demo just so they could technically say they produced...something.
Please LOL at this post if you are an idiot.
That was my impression even before all the following events. Effectively an asset flip/tutorial that was completely unrelated to the game and nothing like anything they spoke of prior.
I put $500 towards a game called Repopulation. While I may never see the game we were promised, it's at least available on STEAM and even had a recent update.
Soulbound Studios never even put out a product. So with that being said, their initial kickstarter was unrealistic. I know for a fact I made the point that you won't see the MMO they promised from only $1 million.
That means, kickstarter projects need to be regulated because people are advertising products for a lot less than what it would take to create them. If Soulbound Studios asked for $15 or $20 million, of course they'll never reach their goal, or maybe they would. Who knows.
Undercutting your project costs via crowdfunding is in itself a scam. They made a promise to deliver a product. They achieved their kickstarter goal. They never delivered on the product. Therefor, they need to be held financially responsible, much like Kurt Schilling had to be held accountable to Rhode Island.
The question some people have been asking is whether or not they put out the parkour demo just so they could technically say they produced...something.
Please LOL at this post if you are an idiot.
That was my impression even before all the following events. Effectively an asset flip/tutorial that was completely unrelated to the game and nothing like anything they spoke of prior.
Well considering you can buy a UE4 parkour/swim pack for 19.99 what they showed is absolutely pathetic for 4 years and 8 million dollars.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
I honestly hope nothing comes of this, not because I want to see Jeromy Walsh get away with anything but because a lot of that responsibility falls on the backers themselves. The fact that they can throw money at a project like this and continue to do it when there's very little progress being made and nobody is asking any questions... It's their own fault. So I don't think litigation should be used in the face of many of these backers having zero personal responsibility.
I'm one of the backers and spent around 1.2K in Canadian dollars. I know it's far from some people out there but I totally agree with your post. I knew from the start I was gambling my money and if they were to "F" everyone it would be 100% my fault. Nothing obligated me to give my own money to a non existing game and this applies to every backers out there whatever the amount. 1 $ or 10000000000$ is the same . You gave it away knowing everything at stake. I don't even understand how this could go forward at all but hey, let them try I guess. I learned from my mistake here and never again will I do something this stupid.
Actually $1 and $10000000000 are not the same. I can totally understand someone backing a kickstarter for $30-60, what I find crazy is the people who spend much much more than this and who keep putting in more even when the game is obviously a dud.
Indeed, the whole concept of CoE was off putting what with buying kingdoms etc outright for vast sums of real money. It is very difficult for me to understand how any sane person could look at how that kickstarter was set up and want to buy into it.
Of course the mentality of the conartist who ripped u all off also blows my mind. To be able to do that- just blatantly, repeatedly, knowingly suck money out of people, possibly destroying people's lives in the process - to actively fight for your scam on forums and elsewhere, to constantly lie and deceive while presenting such an unflappable front. I find it amazing, intriguing, and kind of sad all at once.
What a dirtbag. Any doubt I had about incompetence vs scam is now cleared. IMHO this guy deserves everything he gets:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/soulboundstudios/chronicles-of-elyria-epic-story-mmorpg-with-aging/posts/2807621 I and a team of advisers are currently investigating other sources of funding and hope to have more concrete news for you soon. In the coming days, I’ll be posting a more detailed FAQ and will strive to be more transparent and clear in my communication as I work through possible ways forward. I humbly ask for your patience as I begin the process of rebuilding your trust. -------------
IMHO it's just about trying to screw people out of their refunds and cover his tracks legally.
I do not see any way there is an investor dumb enough to put money into this pile of shit and there is no way he will ever get the community back after his behavior.
What a dick
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
People love to flame their fellow man for not being careful enough and for paying insufficient attention. And that is what it is. But it doesn't mean we simply let bad actors off the hook.
I just think it's a hard case to make, because at the end of the day some effort - however lousy - was made to make the game.
That's why I go back to:
Fraud is generally defined in the law as an intentional misrepresentation of material existing fact made by one person to another with knowledge of its falsity and for the purpose of inducing the other person to act, and upon which the other person relies with resulting injury or damage. Fraud may also be made by an omission or purposeful failure to state material facts, which nondisclosure makes other statements misleading.
If his statements/actions fit that criteria then there will be a case. If not, then there won't be.
From what I understand, multiple lawyers have said that they believe there is a case to pursue BUT since the company is probably out of money there is really no payment for them so they are not eager to jump on the case.
I've thought the action of selling an in-game asset, then not building enough of that asset to cover the preexisting sales (like @AnOldFart's case) is/was most definitely a fraudulent activity. Saying one thing, but doing another. That might not apply in all cases, and would need to be proven in court. If I were a lawyer, that is where I would put a good bit of investigation work. That kind of activity certainly hints at an intentional misrepresentation of facts.
But, there's probably no money left for the lawyers to divide anyway. Unraveling an LLC, even one in fraudulent situations is incredibly difficult. There's just too many cracks where money can disappear.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I think he has gotten served from the DA of Washington.
Or he's trying to prevent payment processor from issuing refunds for recent purchases.
Usually there's a timeline during which payment processor can force a refund if the seller isn't delivering, so that delaying tactic where you don't actually do anything might be more effective with them. As opposed to legal actions where delaying tactic could backfire and make you personally responsible if you pretend to be running development when one isn't running any more.
These silly backers have really no excuse for this nonsense. MMORPGS take years to make. Any fool that does not grasp that simple fact is a complete idiot. The only thing actionable here is that fact that the dev staff have been less than truthful with the backers. Big Deal, that sums up pretty much most development on games such as this.
So if you are a backer whining about this game, get real. Think before you whine because you are looking really foolish ATM
These silly backers have really no excuse for this nonsense. MMORPGS take years to make. Any fool that does not grasp that simple fact is a complete idiot. The only thing actionable here is that fact that the dev staff have been less than truthful with the backers. Big Deal, that sums up pretty much most development on games such as this.
So if you are a backer whining about this game, get real. Think before you whine because you are looking really foolish ATM
Fraud is generally defined in the law as an intentional misrepresentation of material existing fact made by one person to another with knowledge of its falsity and for the purpose of inducing the other person to act, and upon which the other person relies with resulting injury or damage. Fraud may also be made by an omission or purposeful failure to state material facts, which nondisclosure makes other statements misleading.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
...if he is a dick and dirtbag, I cannot even fathom what that makes of you.
Is this Caspians alt account?
No, they just get kicks from being "pro publisher" for even the most egregious monetary over reaches. Basically a low level troll, with a high level of consistency of what they target.
Best thing you can do is call out publishers, and rack up your +lol reaction counts.
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
Comments
Please LOL at this post if you are an idiot.
Please LOL at this post if you are an idiot.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
None of us are attorneys with expertise in this area. Even if we were, the outcome of potential lawsuits or prosecution wouldn't be known to us. The law is always open to interpretation. At this point, I have no idea what will happen, but I am interested in seeing if the AG pursues things. I didn't put a penny into this game, but I'm interested in the implications for current and future crowdfunded MMOs.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
A donation is made without return consideration, or in exchange of something that's small value compared to that donation or mostly symbolic. Crowdfunding rewards that are part of the agreement are too valuable that it would qualify.
If something does not qualify as a donation, the parties can not agree otherwise. Both parties can call it a donation all they want, but legislation never treats it as a donation because otherwise that would allow businesses a loophole which could be used to circumvent other laws about stuff like warranty and product safety.
I just think it's a hard case to make, because at the end of the day some effort - however lousy - was made to make the game.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Fraud is generally defined in the law as an intentional misrepresentation of material existing fact made by one person to another with knowledge of its falsity and for the purpose of inducing the other person to act, and upon which the other person relies with resulting injury or damage. Fraud may also be made by an omission or purposeful failure to state material facts, which nondisclosure makes other statements misleading.
If his statements/actions fit that criteria then there will be a case. If not, then there won't be.
From what I understand, multiple lawyers have said that they believe there is a case to pursue BUT since the company is probably out of money there is really no payment for them so they are not eager to jump on the case.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Please LOL at this post if you are an idiot.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=KSRnJrdP_qc&feature=emb_logo
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Indeed, the whole concept of CoE was off putting what with buying kingdoms etc outright for vast sums of real money. It is very difficult for me to understand how any sane person could look at how that kickstarter was set up and want to buy into it.
Of course the mentality of the conartist who ripped u all off also blows my mind. To be able to do that- just blatantly, repeatedly, knowingly suck money out of people, possibly destroying people's lives in the process - to actively fight for your scam on forums and elsewhere, to constantly lie and deceive while presenting such an unflappable front. I find it amazing, intriguing, and kind of sad all at once.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/soulboundstudios/chronicles-of-elyria-epic-story-mmorpg-with-aging/posts/2807621
I and a team of advisers are currently investigating other sources of funding and hope to have more concrete news for you soon. In the coming days, I’ll be posting a more detailed FAQ and will strive to be more transparent and clear in my communication as I work through possible ways forward. I humbly ask for your patience as I begin the process of rebuilding your trust.
-------------
IMHO it's just about trying to screw people out of their refunds and cover his tracks legally.
I do not see any way there is an investor dumb enough to put money into this pile of shit and there is no way he will ever get the community back after his behavior.
What a dick
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Usually there's a timeline during which payment processor can force a refund if the seller isn't delivering, so that delaying tactic where you don't actually do anything might be more effective with them. As opposed to legal actions where delaying tactic could backfire and make you personally responsible if you pretend to be running development when one isn't running any more.
So if you are a backer whining about this game, get real. Think before you whine because you are looking really foolish ATM
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."