Maybe I wasn't clear enough. The NPCs would do the patrolling. When I said that PCs could do the same, I meant that they could alert guards or soldiers if they saw an invading force of PCs or NPCs. Like raising an alarm. Have that be a dialogue option when talking to NPC guards and soldiers.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
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Yes, having to drink water every 5 minutes (of real time or game time) would be lame.
I remember playing a couple of MUDs where it took about 30 minutes to gather items for cooking, then you had to make it which took another ten minutes, then the food item only lasted like 15 minutes....It was really lame.
The NPCs would already have factions with social systems and civilized societies in place. Or less civilized in the case of certain monster tribes. Player characters would have to survive, develop, earn favor, and build their power and influence within the framework of the faction they chose to join. Choices would be limited or expanded by their attributes, alignment, race, and the progression path they chose to follow. The skills, abilities, and talents they chose to develop would also play a role. Their choices and actions would further limit or expand their actions.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
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I think if a player managed to escape a certain faction's prison once, they should then be KOS. Basically a public execution.
It would be really cool if wanted posters for criminals could appear on walls in cities and towns. Bounties could even be placed on them. An NPC could hand out quests/missions to hunt down certain player characters.
KOS doesn't mean anything on it's own. What happens if a character with criminal points dies? If they suffer stat and skill loss based on their criminal points, now you're talking affective deterrence.
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Also, large bands of players could not roam kingdoms, provinces, or even the countryside or wilderness with impunity. Pretty much every area, except perhaps for a desolate wasteland, is going to have some kind of dominant power or powers patrolling it, trying to keep the peace, or otherwise defending/enforcing their will in the territory. Humans, demi-humans, and even monster tribes would have scouts and patrols roaming their territory at intervals. Criminal and bandit gangs would have to be careful in order to avoid detection. (There could be PC & NPC bandit gangs, of course.) A large group of NPC or PC invaders into an opposing faction's territory is going to get noticed/detected sooner or later. The sound of many marchers and/or riders cannot be hidden without magic or divine power. And even then, factions might have wards set up to detect such powerful magic. Some might have griffon, wyvern, or even dragon riders making aerial patrols. Very, very few (if any) would have the ability to cast a spell powerful enough to make an army/zerg invisible, not to mention both absolutely silent and invisible. Peasant NPCs could also seek out guards/soldiers in order to sound the alarm if they saw invaders passing near or through their village. And, of course, PCs would able to do the same.
This would never happen. Patrolling it? With players ? You think players are going to log into an MMO to play a city guard?
LOL.. ok.. that was some funny.
There are "anti-PKers" who would love to hear the alarm sounded, and jump at the chance to search and destroy the enemy. I'm one, did it in UO with a guild who made a home base and defended an area, plus went around the world looking for trouble with said evil hoards.
UO had the work-arounds that allowed them to avoide the penalty. At first, they relied on players fighting back and had no system in place. Then they added the "red/gray" flags, That didn't do much. Then they added stat loss, and the work-arounds allowed avoidance of penalty. So, they never actually had a system that worked. It did slow it down a little, but it was still too much.
Of note, whenever they added to their "justice system", the PKers would go quiet for a while until they figured out how much effect it had. So punishment does work, it's just a case of seeing it done so they couldn't find an out.
No, I want to play a Medieval Fantasy MMORPG/Survival/Real-Time Strategy War Game
I want to play a game where my choices and decisions matter beyond what to equip, what skills/abilities to use, what to buy or sell, where to go, who/what to fight. (Let's see what are my other choices in an MMORPG? Play solo or group, join a guild or not, gather or not, craft or not. But none of my choices have any lasting effect on the game world because the game world is static.
I want a dynamic, persistent, virtual world.
I want an MMORPG that doesn't have an endlessly repetitive end game. I want to play an MMORPG that isn't simply a personal quest for wealth and power. I'm tired of reading stories in a game or playing a role in a story written by others. I want players to make their own stories. I want the NPCs/Mobs/AI to be more than just quest-givers, story/info-tellers, merchants, and xp/loot farms.
Post edited by Ancient_Exile on
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
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Perhaps you're right. I don't personally know any MMO devs.
I don't know any developers personally, either, yet the track record I see is quite telling.
- How many MMOs had awful launches? - Servers overloaded because more players than expected wanted to play. - The vast changes that nerfed one class and made another the next flavor of the month. - Imbalances that came with many updates or expansions.
Of course developers come and go and designs change. It seems that many MMOs created don't have plans for very long ranges. I could be totally wrong, though
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
If you get killed while having a crime stat you are sent to a prison in the middle of nowhere to do time that you can cut short by doing work in the prison mines (basically a mini-game).
That's not in the least any kind of "punishment." It's a minigame.
Gluing their character into stocks in the middle of nowhere and not letting them move a muscle for 3 real time hours is punishment. They are not "playing" any kind of game. They are not interacting in or with the world. Shut down their chat ability and they're silent. Their time stops when they log out and resumes when they next log in.
Of course, they can always create a new account and if you have a F2P game, there is no punishment.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I'm thinking that in a game that's not totally gear-dependent, gear, item, & money loss upon death would be a penalty but not catastrophic. Of course, you wouldn't lose the gear, items, & money you had in your bank or stored at your home. I don't think that player character's body should remain in the game world after he or she resurrects. But friends could possibly loot the corpse before the player did so. If they could handle the weight. Though they would only have a limited time to do so before the body disappeared and the player went to whatever respawn location. But being able to loot the corpse of a fallen ally might also entail being able to defeat whoever killed the ally, be it PC(s) or NPC(s).
Stat loss could also work. How did the UO players get around stat loss?
Post edited by Ancient_Exile on
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
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I'm thinking that in a game that's not totally gear-dependent, gear, item, & money loss upon death would be a penalty but not catastrophic. Of course, you wouldn't lose the gear, items, & money you had in your bank or stored at your home. I don't think that player character's body should remain in the game world after he or she resurrects. But friends could possibly loot the corpse before the player did so. If they could handle the weight. Though they would only have a limited time to do so before the body disappeared and the player went to whatever respawn location.
Stat loss could also work. How did the UO players get around stat loss?
UO's penalty system had stat loss that happened when they resurrected.
(It was based on a player killing more than just a few other players.) (You could kill 3 players in about a 10 day period and not go "red." That allowed players to kill jerks who were spamming player events, loot stealing, etc.)
At that point of Reserrecting, if they were carrying the flags, they got the stat loss. So they stayed as a ghost, and macros time away, which wore of the flags, and then ressed as an innocent player. No penalty.
When a player died in UO, they turned into a ghost at their corpse. They could only be seen by other players if they spoke, which always appeared as an "OOoooOOo" in some combination of "o's" They'd appear for about 30 seconds, and if they didn't speak again they'd disappear again. There was an skill called Spirit Speak that would reveal ghosts nearby, and allow that player to understand their typing.
So, a ghosted player could hope for a friendly player to Res them, run around looking for an NPC Healer in the forests who would Res them, or run to one of the 8 Shrines and Res by clicking it. Their loot stayed on their corpse, and the newly ressed player was wearing nothing but a death shroud. They could make a corpse run, or head to their bank.
MOBs looted your corpse, too. lol The idea was that death can hurt, if just a little since the gear wasn't Level Based and that important. ----------------------
Yes, UO had the corpse decay over about half an hour. Maybe 20 minutes? and take any loot on it with it. Gone from the world. Players could loot the corpse, and friends would collect it for their fallen companion. Other players could take your gear if they got there first. Mobs would also loot your corpse, as I said.
And make it so that the player actually has to work to regain the stat?
Also, make it so that the player has to perform good deeds in order to clear his or her criminal past? The more innocents he or she has slain, the longer it takes to be redeemed?
Actually though, with different factions, it would be often be impossible to gain favor with one faction without gaining disfavor with another. Your character could have renown/good reputation with one faction while having infamy/bad reputation with another.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
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How about criminal and villainous PKers being hunted down by NPC soldiers or assassins of whatever faction or factions with whom they've earned a significant amount of disfavor? What about the possibility of earning the wrath of certain deities (perhaps those worshiped by the player characters he or she has slain) and being hounded by supernatural subordinates of those deities?
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
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I have no idea why anyone thinks Open World PvP games will be fun or successful.
I get that some people have this idealist dream that players will from into groups and build communities, they will work together, police and protect each other, defend from the trolls and pool shitters, and build and develop social systems that somehow magically generate civilized societies.. you're flat out fooling yourself.
The Dev's at New World also has such native' delusions as well, they quickly learned that shit does not go that way.
I find them fun so your first sentence is already flawed.
what Open World PvP MMORPG do you play?
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
And make it so that the player actually has to work to regain the stat?
Also, make it so that the player has to perform good deeds in order to clear his or her criminal past? The more innocents he or she has slain, the longer it takes to be redeemed?
Actually though, with different factions, it would be often be impossible to gain favor with one faction without gaining disfavor with another. Your character could have renown/good reputation with one faction while having infamy/bad reputation with another.
Well, the ghosts are another story, actually. The point is to have the penalty kick in right away on death. But only if they took damage from a Player of the faction they've gone criminal to, or special NPC/MOBs that serve as Guardians?
That's a deterrent to criminal actions within your own Faction and homelands.
The Ghosts thing, while it was cool, was abusable because Ghosts could go anywhere. Players could use them to scout the depths of a Dungeon, which takes away from the risk of a living character, and kind of ruins the game play of stealth type characters. PKers used Ghosts to scout for players to kill, their numbers and strength so they could come with a force capable of winning.
I see you want to do the Faction change thing. I think the best an adversary Faction member should be able to gain with a different Faction is nuetrality for travel and trade. It makes no sense that an Orc could be able to work his way up to an Elven Lord. Or any rank, for that matter.
For that trade and travel, maybe there should be trade centers that are nuetral for all sides. That could allow a player to earn enough good will for that sort of thing. Assuming they don't go around attacking that Faction elsewhere in the world. Defending is another story.
As far as penalties for PKing, under that circumstance, as in an Orc whose earned travel and trade nuetrality with the Elves, I'd say that the penalties for PKing (Elves) should still apply. That would be an Inter-Faction (between factions) Justice as opposed to an Intra-Faction (within faction) Justice?
Some races would be automatically nuetral, such as Elves and Humans. Those races should be able to earn low level ranks. But it would still be wierd to see a Human Elfin Lord, and I'd say that should be too much too. Unless you have Half-Elves, that's different.
How about criminal and villainous PKers being hunted down by NPC soldiers or assassins of whatever faction or factions with whom they've earned a significant amount of disfavor? What about the possibility of earning the wrath of certain deities (perhaps those worshiped by the player characters he or she has slain) and being hounded by supernatural subordinates of those deities?
I'm not AIBQuirky, but I think that the Justice System I'm talking about IS the deity's revenge. (Justice System)
But I do like that idea. Maybe all players can earn a deity's disfavor by looting the huge gem eyes of it's statue. That sort of thing. Maybe it's a one time, random, supernatural assault on the player? Or a curse? Something that can be defeated by the player in some fashion.
Plausible realism is what i demand and most games try and push the limits on what is acceptable. One the worst ideas in mmorpg's is happening right now and that is taking YOU the player out of the equation and making it all about your gear.That is such a non realistic idea it is pathetic to think this is what developers are selling us.
If you were to hand pick any race car from a lineup,YOU still wouldn't ever win a race versus a skilled driver because it is mostly about the driver and his pit crew and not the car.If you took the best hockey equipment money can buy and lined up on the ice versus Sydney Crosby you would look like a fool because that gear will not save you.
You could have the best tennis racket in the world,it would not make even a minute difference on your ability to compete versus any pro/skilled opponent.
The point is that developers got it WRONG,simple as that.I am sure they know they are doing it all wrong, but it is an easy way to design the game and a nice carrot to keep players playing,grinding or simply buying that item from a cash shop.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Well, that ghost thing sounds problematic, so if there was any kind of new game based on UO, it should gotten rid of.
As for the ability to earn favor with different Factions, you're right. I think the best most Humans and Dwarves would be able to earn with Elves is the right to travel to certain outposts and trade. Only Humans and Dwarves who performed many deeds for the Elves or performed one or two heroic feats for the Elves would ever be allowed to visit their cities or capitals.
Dwarves would have the same attitude toward Elves and Humans. Elves might need more favor than Humans to trade with Dwarves and vice versa. Humans would usually only require a minimal amount of favor to allow Dwarves and Elves to visit their cities and capitals. Depending on how many Human factions there are, some Human realms might not require any favor for a Dwarf or Elf to pass through their lands while others might be more hostile to any outsiders.
I don't think Dwarves or Elves would ever trade with Orcs or allow them within their borders. Some less scrupulous Humans might trade with Orcs. Evil aligned Human realms might even be willing to hire Orc or Half-Orc mercenaries.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
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Well, that ghost thing sounds problematic, so if there was any kind of new game based on UO, it should gotten rid of.
As for the ability to earn favor with different Factions, you're right. I think the best most Humans and Dwarves would be able to earn with Elves is the right to travel to certain outposts and trade. Only Humans and Dwarves who performed many deeds for the Elves or performed one or two heroic feats for the Elves would ever be allowed to visit their cities or capitals.
Dwarves would have the same attitude toward Elves and Humans. Elves might need more favor than Humans to trade with Dwarves and vice versa. Humans would usually only require a minimal amount of favor to allow Dwarves and Elves to visit their cities and capitals. Depending on how many Human factions there are, some Human realms might not require any favor for a Dwarf or Elf to pass through their lands while others might be more hostile to any outsiders.
I don't think Dwarves or Elves would ever trade with Orcs or allow them within their borders. Some less scrupulous Humans might trade with Orcs. Evil aligned Human realms might even be willing to hire Orc or Half-Orc mercenaries.
Ahh, I see you want to go that way with it. Well, I like it. A lot. Multiple Factions for each race means kingdoms. And that's much better depth.
Yes, I would very much like for each race to have multiple factions.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
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Here's some ideas I had several days ago. Posted this earlier, but I'm not sure if you read it.
Only
a sandbox MMORPG with some form of horizontal progression (in which not
everyone is able to be an adventurer or a hero [and in which players
are also able to be criminals or villains]) could possibly have the
potential of being a true role-playing game.
1)
A true rpg can have some form of limited vertical progression, but it
has to be more realistic. Because the most skilled warrior/martial
artists in history still had/have their limits. So the most mobs or
noobs a top tier player should be able to defeat single-handedly would
probably be between 10-20. Because no matter how powerful a person is,
they're still gonna run out of stamina/energy eventually. And even the
greatest warrior can stumble on a rock, slip in mud, or have the sun
glare in his or her eyes at just the wrong moment.
2) There could
be levels in skills, abilities, and talents as opposed to
class/character levels. There could be ranks as well, but they would be
social, economic, political, and military ranks, etc. Now, a deity
(played/controlled by a GM/Game Master might intervene in a battle and
choose to empower your character to defeat more mobs or other
player-characters at once. However, if there is more than one deity in
the game world, than an opposing deity/GM could also choose to empower
your enemies in a battle. Opposing deities/GMs might even choose to
empower both sides in a battle. Not saying that is necessary in a game
world, but it could make things more interesting. (OR the deity could
send his or her own avatar or supernatural subordinates to directly aid a
player-character in battle or with some non-combat ordeal/quest.)
3)
When the GM is offline, then a particular deity would be controlled by
AI. And, of course, your character would have to perform certain
tasks/duties/actions in order to gain the favor of their chosen deity or
deities. But other actions could also gain them the ire of another
deity or other deities.
4) Your character could also gain/lose
favor points with different factions. These could be political entities
as well as guilds/mercenary companies/bandit gangs/monster hordes,
etc. If your character gains enough favor with a certain faction, this
would lower prices for items in their settlements, reduce costs for
training, grant access to special buildings and NPCs, as well as unlock
the possibility for them to send NPCs to aid your character in battle.
However, by gaining favor with one faction or performing certain
actions, your character would also gain disfavor with another faction.
So other factions could become so angry with your character that they
might send out assassins or other such NPCs to atttack your character.
And your characters would have a general level of renown/infamy based on
the actions he or she chooses to perform and decisions he or she
chooses to make. There could be player-controlled factions as well as
AI controlled-factions. However, just the GMs, the Player-controlled
Factions would have rules as well as penalties for breaking those
rules. So not everything would be up to the whim of a particular GM or
Player (or group of Players).
(...to be continued...)
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
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5) Of course, the different Deities and Factions
would have limited resources, so they couldn't constantly aid or seek to
harm player-characters. Priority would be given to those with the
highest favor or disfavor with the particular Deity or Faction, but a
certain amount of resources would be saved and allocated to those with
less favor or disfavor. And there could be a cool-down timer so that an
individual PC (player-character) wasn't constantly being aided or
thwarted. Particular priority would be given to those PC's who had
betrayed a deity or faction, of course. Again, in games with multiple
deities/supernatural beings/highly evolved beings/advanced alien
races/sentient AI, etc., they would not have unlimited
resources/abilities/powers. They would not be omniscient, omnipotent,
or omnipresent. A deity with infinite attributes could only exist in a
game world that was created (in game terms) by that singular being.
However, that probably wouldn't work too well for an MMORPG.
6)
Player Characters (and even Mobs?) could have an option to request aid
from a deity or faction. However, the deity or faction could reply yes,
no, or wait. A deity could be prayed to anywhere, though an invocation
might be more effective in a temple, on a feast/holy day, and/or after
performing some sort of ritual or sacrifice. A PC would have to
actually visit an PC or NPC with authority in the faction from which he
or she was requesting aid. Being granted an audience could take some
time (might not always be immediate) as those in authority are often
busy with duties or might be holding an audience with other PCs (or
perhaps even NPCs) at the time. And the cool-down timer for receiving
aid would be longer after requesting aid as opposed to receiving aid
without requesting it.
Aid from a deity or faction could also
come in the form of time-limited boons or blessings OR gifts of
money/items OR being allowed to borrow an legendary weapon, piece or set
of armor, or a fabled artifact for a limited amount of time.
7)
Furthermore, a faction with which a PC has favor might displease a
particular deity, thereby reducing a PC's favor with the deity as well.
OR a faction with which the PC has disfavor (negative faction points)
might do something which pleases the deity, thereby reducing a PC's
favor with the deity. OR A faction with which a PC has favor might
please a particular deity, thereby increasing a PC's favor with the
deity as well. OR a faction with which the PC has disfavor (negative
faction points) might do something which displeases the deity, thereby
increasing a PC's favor with the deity.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
As for the idea of open world pvp games aren't fun or successful, I think Eve online would have to be considered to be such a game. So the premise pointed out by Ungood is moot I think.
Yes, people will troll. Yes, people will try ruin your idea of fun. Yes, the game devs will have to come up with sensible solutions, without cutting corners in the coding or tech dept.
But that shouldn't stop anybody keep playing or making such games I think.
Comments
I remember playing a couple of MUDs where it took about 30 minutes to gather items for cooking, then you had to make it which took another ten minutes, then the food item only lasted like 15 minutes....It was really lame.
Maybe new world is what you want to play. Some people say it is sort of like a survival game but turned into a mmorpg.
What happens if a character with criminal points dies? If they suffer stat and skill loss based on their criminal points, now you're talking affective deterrence.
Once upon a time....
There are "anti-PKers" who would love to hear the alarm sounded, and jump at the chance to search and destroy the enemy. I'm one, did it in UO with a guild who made a home base and defended an area, plus went around the world looking for trouble with said evil hoards.
Once upon a time....
At first, they relied on players fighting back and had no system in place. Then they added the "red/gray" flags, That didn't do much.
Then they added stat loss, and the work-arounds allowed avoidance of penalty.
So, they never actually had a system that worked.
It did slow it down a little, but it was still too much.
Of note, whenever they added to their "justice system", the PKers would go quiet for a while until they figured out how much effect it had. So punishment does work, it's just a case of seeing it done so they couldn't find an out.
Once upon a time....
- How many MMOs had awful launches?
- Servers overloaded because more players than expected wanted to play.
- The vast changes that nerfed one class and made another the next flavor of the month.
- Imbalances that came with many updates or expansions.
Of course developers come and go and designs change. It seems that many MMOs created don't have plans for very long ranges. I could be totally wrong, though
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Gluing their character into stocks in the middle of nowhere and not letting them move a muscle for 3 real time hours is punishment. They are not "playing" any kind of game. They are not interacting in or with the world. Shut down their chat ability and they're silent. Their time stops when they log out and resumes when they next log in.
Of course, they can always create a new account and if you have a F2P game, there is no punishment.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
(It was based on a player killing more than just a few other players.)
(You could kill 3 players in about a 10 day period and not go "red." That allowed players to kill jerks who were spamming player events, loot stealing, etc.)
At that point of Reserrecting, if they were carrying the flags, they got the stat loss.
So they stayed as a ghost, and macros time away, which wore of the flags, and then ressed as an innocent player. No penalty.
When a player died in UO, they turned into a ghost at their corpse. They could only be seen by other players if they spoke, which always appeared as an "OOoooOOo" in some combination of "o's"
They'd appear for about 30 seconds, and if they didn't speak again they'd disappear again.
There was an skill called Spirit Speak that would reveal ghosts nearby, and allow that player to understand their typing.
So, a ghosted player could hope for a friendly player to Res them, run around looking for an NPC Healer in the forests who would Res them, or run to one of the 8 Shrines and Res by clicking it.
Their loot stayed on their corpse, and the newly ressed player was wearing nothing but a death shroud. They could make a corpse run, or head to their bank.
MOBs looted your corpse, too. lol
The idea was that death can hurt, if just a little since the gear wasn't Level Based and that important.
----------------------
Yes, UO had the corpse decay over about half an hour. Maybe 20 minutes? and take any loot on it with it. Gone from the world. Players could loot the corpse, and friends would collect it for their fallen companion.
Other players could take your gear if they got there first.
Mobs would also loot your corpse, as I said.
Once upon a time....
The point is to have the penalty kick in right away on death. But only if they took damage from a Player of the faction they've gone criminal to, or special NPC/MOBs that serve as Guardians?
That's a deterrent to criminal actions within your own Faction and homelands.
The Ghosts thing, while it was cool, was abusable because Ghosts could go anywhere. Players could use them to scout the depths of a Dungeon, which takes away from the risk of a living character, and kind of ruins the game play of stealth type characters.
PKers used Ghosts to scout for players to kill, their numbers and strength so they could come with a force capable of winning.
I see you want to do the Faction change thing.
I think the best an adversary Faction member should be able to gain with a different Faction is nuetrality for travel and trade.
It makes no sense that an Orc could be able to work his way up to an Elven Lord. Or any rank, for that matter.
For that trade and travel, maybe there should be trade centers that are nuetral for all sides. That could allow a player to earn enough good will for that sort of thing. Assuming they don't go around attacking that Faction elsewhere in the world. Defending is another story.
As far as penalties for PKing, under that circumstance, as in an Orc whose earned travel and trade nuetrality with the Elves, I'd say that the penalties for PKing (Elves) should still apply. That would be an Inter-Faction (between factions) Justice as opposed to an Intra-Faction (within faction) Justice?
Some races would be automatically nuetral, such as Elves and Humans. Those races should be able to earn low level ranks. But it would still be wierd to see a Human Elfin Lord, and I'd say that should be too much too. Unless you have Half-Elves, that's different.
Once upon a time....
I'm not AIBQuirky, but I think that the Justice System I'm talking about IS the deity's revenge. (Justice System)
But I do like that idea. Maybe all players can earn a deity's disfavor by looting the huge gem eyes of it's statue. That sort of thing. Maybe it's a one time, random, supernatural assault on the player? Or a curse? Something that can be defeated by the player in some fashion.
Once upon a time....
One the worst ideas in mmorpg's is happening right now and that is taking YOU the player out of the equation and making it all about your gear.That is such a non realistic idea it is pathetic to think this is what developers are selling us.
If you were to hand pick any race car from a lineup,YOU still wouldn't ever win a race versus a skilled driver because it is mostly about the driver and his pit crew and not the car.If you took the best hockey equipment money can buy and lined up on the ice versus Sydney Crosby you would look like a fool because that gear will not save you.
You could have the best tennis racket in the world,it would not make even a minute difference on your ability to compete versus any pro/skilled opponent.
The point is that developers got it WRONG,simple as that.I am sure they know they are doing it all wrong, but it is an easy way to design the game and a nice carrot to keep players playing,grinding or simply buying that item from a cash shop.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Multiple Factions for each race means kingdoms. And that's much better depth.
Once upon a time....
2) There could be levels in skills, abilities, and talents as opposed to class/character levels. There could be ranks as well, but they would be social, economic, political, and military ranks, etc. Now, a deity (played/controlled by a GM/Game Master might intervene in a battle and choose to empower your character to defeat more mobs or other player-characters at once. However, if there is more than one deity in the game world, than an opposing deity/GM could also choose to empower your enemies in a battle. Opposing deities/GMs might even choose to empower both sides in a battle. Not saying that is necessary in a game world, but it could make things more interesting. (OR the deity could send his or her own avatar or supernatural subordinates to directly aid a player-character in battle or with some non-combat ordeal/quest.)
3) When the GM is offline, then a particular deity would be controlled by AI. And, of course, your character would have to perform certain tasks/duties/actions in order to gain the favor of their chosen deity or deities. But other actions could also gain them the ire of another deity or other deities.
4) Your character could also gain/lose favor points with different factions. These could be political entities as well as guilds/mercenary companies/bandit gangs/monster hordes, etc. If your character gains enough favor with a certain faction, this would lower prices for items in their settlements, reduce costs for training, grant access to special buildings and NPCs, as well as unlock the possibility for them to send NPCs to aid your character in battle. However, by gaining favor with one faction or performing certain actions, your character would also gain disfavor with another faction. So other factions could become so angry with your character that they might send out assassins or other such NPCs to atttack your character. And your characters would have a general level of renown/infamy based on the actions he or she chooses to perform and decisions he or she chooses to make. There could be player-controlled factions as well as AI controlled-factions. However, just the GMs, the Player-controlled Factions would have rules as well as penalties for breaking those rules. So not everything would be up to the whim of a particular GM or Player (or group of Players).
6) Player Characters (and even Mobs?) could have an option to request aid from a deity or faction. However, the deity or faction could reply yes, no, or wait. A deity could be prayed to anywhere, though an invocation might be more effective in a temple, on a feast/holy day, and/or after performing some sort of ritual or sacrifice. A PC would have to actually visit an PC or NPC with authority in the faction from which he or she was requesting aid. Being granted an audience could take some time (might not always be immediate) as those in authority are often busy with duties or might be holding an audience with other PCs (or perhaps even NPCs) at the time. And the cool-down timer for receiving aid would be longer after requesting aid as opposed to receiving aid without requesting it.
Aid from a deity or faction could also come in the form of time-limited boons or blessings OR gifts of money/items OR being allowed to borrow an legendary weapon, piece or set of armor, or a fabled artifact for a limited amount of time.
7) Furthermore, a faction with which a PC has favor might displease a particular deity, thereby reducing a PC's favor with the deity as well. OR a faction with which the PC has disfavor (negative faction points) might do something which pleases the deity, thereby reducing a PC's favor with the deity. OR A faction with which a PC has favor might please a particular deity, thereby increasing a PC's favor with the deity as well. OR a faction with which the PC has disfavor (negative faction points) might do something which displeases the deity, thereby increasing a PC's favor with the deity.
Yes, people will troll.
Yes, people will try ruin your idea of fun.
Yes, the game devs will have to come up with sensible solutions, without cutting corners in the coding or tech dept.
But that shouldn't stop anybody keep playing or making such games I think.