UK Gambling Committee says Loot Boxes are gambling

JudgeUK · July 2020

No real surprise here as it's hard to categorize loot boxes as anything else:

"The House of Lords Gambling Committee says video game loot boxes should be regulated under gambling laws and calls for immediate gambling regulation."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-53253195

Kyleran · July 2020

Another awesome comment from the report.

"If a product looks like gambling and feels like gambling, it should be regulated as gambling," their report says."

Just another take on 'if it walks like a duck..."

Adamantine · July 2020

Thank god.

I hope that kills the whole idea of "surprise mechanics" for good, because gambling is 18+ only etc.

Aeander · July 2020

It's a small but substantial win. It helps set precedent. But for the war to be won, you really need a large market like the US, EU, or Japan (the homeland of gacha trash) to regulate them.

Quizzical · July 2020

The House of Lords can't actually do anything, can they?

cameltosis · July 2020

I'm pretty happy with this, as it's pretty much exactly what I've been asking for.

We've always known that paid-for-lockboxes are gambling. It meets the definition perfectly. It just didn't meet the specification for being the type of gambling that requires regulation. This report suggests simply making this type of gambling require regulation. Thats good.

Games will still be able to include them if they want, they'll just earn an 18 certificate and have some extra advertising. They'll be some extra security checks along the way, but adults will still be able to participate if they want to.

This also seems to set the precedent for making changes, so that when the gaming industry figures out it's next exploitative loophole, it'll be quicker and easier to shut it down.

As to @Quizzical's point, you're right, the House of Lords can't initiate any new legislation. But, they were asked to do this report by MPs, and the Lords can lobby / influence MPs too. So, the next step is for any MP to write up some new legislation and introduce a bill to the house of commons. If that gets through, then the house of lords will vote on it too. If they agree, I believe the Queen gets the final say.

However, as both the Queen and the Lords are unelected, they tend not to get in the way too much. The Queen does her political manuvering in private but has a strong influence. She basically ensures that bad bills that she doesn't want to sign never actually make it to her desk. The Lords are also wary of being seen as acting against "the people", so (in my opinion) they seem to act like a "common sense" final check - most stuff will go through, but stuff thats a bit too extreme or too stupid will get called up and sent back.

[NB i dont study politics, so im probably wrong about some of the stuff above, but this is broadly what I think happens when it comes to making new laws in the uk]

So, yeh, this is just a report, no new laws yet, but it's another step in the right direction and I think the recommendation is solid.

goboygo · July 2020

Good, because it is.

cheyane · July 2020

Everyone knows it is gambling including the folks who say it ain't or should I say especially those who say that. I am surprised people listened to the 'surprise mechanics' and didn't laugh them off the hearing. Shows how corrupt everyone there was.

Adamantine · July 2020

Err ... I dont think they've been corrupt, I think they've been professional.

If you're professional you listen to the biggest b.s. and still keep a straight face.

And yes, of course everyone knows its gambling.

Iselin · July 2020

remsleep said:

So who funds the gambling commission in UK?

"The Commission is publicly funded, although its funding is derived in the main from licence fees that holders of operating and personal licences are required to pay, rather than coming from the Exchequer."

So yep - they would be making money off game industry - so of course the gambling commission is going to state the obvious "water is wet, loot boxes are gambling" - because the more business they can charge for gambling licenses - more money for them.

So while this is a good thing - it stems from pure self interest - rather then "acting on what's the right thing to do"

Government bodies are funny like that - they always look for their self interest and then act accordingly.

As it should be. Why the F should governments need to use tax payer money to fund oversight over something that makes as much money as gambling does?

Your take sounds like the corporate stooge party line where all forms of indirect or direct taxation and licenses on corporations is a bad thing.

cheyane · July 2020

I'm also worried what they will replace these 'surprise mechanics' with in the future when they get taxed and the profits aren't so huge.

klash2def · July 2020

good.

Kyleran · July 2020

cheyane said:

I'm also worried what they will replace these 'surprise mechanics' with in the future when they get taxed and the profits aren't so huge.

Don't you worry, the gaming industry has shown amazing resourcefulness over the years in find new ways to monetize their products, they'll be sure to find adequate replacements.

Lootboxes were just such an easy win is why they were being used so often.

AAAMEOW · July 2020

This topic have been going on forever, but nothing changed.

Not to mention gambling is legal for adult. At best they just ban loot box from kids.

Slapshot1188 · July 2020

Progress...

cheyane · July 2020

AAAMEOW said:

This topic have been going on forever, but nothing changed.

Not to mention gambling is legal for adult. At best they just ban loot box from kids.

The rating on the game will change then, which is something gaming companies don't want. Keeping the kids out is bad business.

Slapshot1188 · July 2020

AAAMEOW said:

This topic have been going on forever, but nothing changed.

Not to mention gambling is legal for adult. At best they just ban loot box from kids.

That... and list the odds.

AAAMEOW · July 2020

Slapshot1188 said:

AAAMEOW said:

This topic have been going on forever, but nothing changed.

Not to mention gambling is legal for adult. At best they just ban loot box from kids.

That... and list the odds.

Do games from IOS or andriod need to release the odds? I remember people say it need to be disclosed.

I play pokemon go, the egg hatching odds is never disclosed. And people are debating weather egg hatching are same as loot box.

Slapshot1188 · July 2020

AAAMEOW said:

Slapshot1188 said:

AAAMEOW said:

This topic have been going on forever, but nothing changed.

Not to mention gambling is legal for adult. At best they just ban loot box from kids.

That... and list the odds.

Do games from IOS or andriod need to release the odds? I remember people say it need to be disclosed.

I play pokemon go, the egg hatching odds is never disclosed. And people are debating weather egg hatching are same as loot box.

No idea as I don’t play anything like that, but if you are spending money on a lootbox in those games then yeah they should have the same rules.

What rational person wants to spend money to buy a chance at something and doesn’t want to know what that chance is?

What harm do you fear by actually presenting consumers with the odds?

Amathe · July 2020

If they ever find a way to tax gamer disappointment, the gaming industry is really going to pay off in tax revenue.

Beatnik59 · July 2020

remsleep said:

Rhoklaw said:
To answer your last question, it's simple really. Decreased sales. That is the only reason.

Only when people understand how to read percentages and understand odds - sadly many people don't.

Lack of education is the underlying cause of so many problems

Sometimes it takes a thing a person cares about to get somebody to learn about something new. If people are obsessed with games and random loot, and they don't know probability, surely their obsession with the games will motivate them to learn about odds, because that feeds into the obsession.

It's kind of like how many computer coders learned about computers. They could care less about code, but the sure loved their games, and so their obsession with games led them to learn the principles of software engineering in order to mod them.

Quizzical · July 2020

If it's politicians trying to solve the problem, they'll probably come up with something like putting a tax on all games (whether they have loot boxes or not), appointing a commission to write a report that will be ignored, and then declaring the problem solved.

Quizzical · July 2020

Beatnik59 said:

remsleep said:

Rhoklaw said:
To answer your last question, it's simple really. Decreased sales. That is the only reason.

Only when people understand how to read percentages and understand odds - sadly many people don't.

Lack of education is the underlying cause of so many problems

Sometimes it takes a thing a person cares about to get somebody to learn about something new. If people are obsessed with games and random loot, and they don't know probability, surely their obsession with the games will motivate them to learn about odds, because that feeds into the obsession.

It's kind of like how many computer coders learned about computers. They could care less about code, but the sure loved their games, and so their obsession with games led them to learn the principles of software engineering in order to mod them.

It's not likely to work that way. Tons of people keep playing the lottery precisely because they don't understand probability.

Vrika · July 2020

Beatnik59 said:

remsleep said:

Rhoklaw said:
To answer your last question, it's simple really. Decreased sales. That is the only reason.

Only when people understand how to read percentages and understand odds - sadly many people don't.

Lack of education is the underlying cause of so many problems

Sometimes it takes a thing a person cares about to get somebody to learn about something new. If people are obsessed with games and random loot, and they don't know probability, surely their obsession with the games will motivate them to learn about odds, because that feeds into the obsession.

It's kind of like how many computer coders learned about computers. They could care less about code, but the sure loved their games, and so their obsession with games led them to learn the principles of software engineering in order to mod them.

That doesn't fix the problem. A few more people who learn about percentages is always good, but the people who learn something optional are always a minority compared to those who don't.

AlBQuirky · July 2020

Rhoklaw said:

Slapshot1188 said:

AAAMEOW said:

Slapshot1188 said:

AAAMEOW said:

This topic have been going on forever, but nothing changed.

Not to mention gambling is legal for adult. At best they just ban loot box from kids.

That... and list the odds.

Do games from IOS or andriod need to release the odds? I remember people say it need to be disclosed.

I play pokemon go, the egg hatching odds is never disclosed. And people are debating weather egg hatching are same as loot box.

No idea as I don’t play anything like that, but if you are spending money on a lootbox in those games then yeah they should have the same rules.

What rational person wants to spend money to buy a chance at something and doesn’t want to know what that chance is?

What harm do you fear by actually presenting consumers with the odds?

To answer your last question, it's simple really. Decreased sales. That is the only reason.

My first thought is that "odds" is an in-your-face admittance that you are now gambling. Many players may not like that, even though they do it regularly. It could certainly lead to decreased sales.

We humans have a wonderful mind that we can trick into believing almost anything, like, "I know I'm not gambling even though it is just like gambling..."

Superman0X · July 2020

The issue isnt whether lootboxes are gambling or not. The issue is how the law defines gambling, and then whether lootboxes fall under that definition. It is fine to say 'I think that X is gambling, and that it should be regulated as such', but that is a terrible basis for any legal action. Are we really saying that someone should be able to enforce legal action based on how they feel about something? Do we really think that this is not going to be abused?

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UK Gambling Committee says Loot Boxes are gambling

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UK Gambling Committee says Loot Boxes are gambling

Comments

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV