Well, there is just so many free hours in the day. But! You answer me:
"Would I rather play a proven and remastered old game or a promising, but ultimately unknown new game?"
This is a great question.
I just started to play DDO again (made in 2006) and, while chatting, topic turned to why we were all playing a 14 year old game as opposed to a newer game.
While many answers were said, there was a more uniform agreement that we play it because the game is "deep". It gives us all the ability to play the way we want to play, with a huge amount of options, and styles, and abilities that all matter.
And while as anything organic goes, yes the topic of updating the game came up, basic ideas of just a graphics update and some of the more modern systems of cosmetics, which, were much talked about and embraced.. but then the idea of all the "mistakes" they made, and I say "mistakes" because some people loved those features and some hated them, and lo, it turned into a match of fussing about what was good and bad.
Anyway.. I think if Given the Choice between playing a remastered Old Game, or some new Game, I would be far more inclined to give a remastered game a chance if I liked it the first time around, so much so I would even be inclined to willing to "Pre-order" to support the remastering process.
I agree that a deep game is amazing and great to play unlike you, i developed a minimum level of graphics, so if a games graphics look too outdated, i cant play it, no matter how deep it is.
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Well, there is just so many free hours in the day. But! You answer me:
"Would I rather play a proven and remastered old game or a promising, but ultimately unknown new game?"
This is a great question.
I just started to play DDO again (made in 2006) and, while chatting, topic turned to why we were all playing a 14 year old game as opposed to a newer game.
While many answers were said, there was a more uniform agreement that we play it because the game is "deep". It gives us all the ability to play the way we want to play, with a huge amount of options, and styles, and abilities that all matter.
And while as anything organic goes, yes the topic of updating the game came up, basic ideas of just a graphics update and some of the more modern systems of cosmetics, which, were much talked about and embraced.. but then the idea of all the "mistakes" they made, and I say "mistakes" because some people loved those features and some hated them, and lo, it turned into a match of fussing about what was good and bad.
Anyway.. I think if Given the Choice between playing a remastered Old Game, or some new Game, I would be far more inclined to give a remastered game a chance if I liked it the first time around, so much so I would even be inclined to willing to "Pre-order" to support the remastering process.
I agree that a deep game is amazing and great to play unlike you, i developed a minimum level of graphics, so if a games graphics look too outdated, i cant play it, no matter how deep it is.
That's totally fair, I loved the gameplay of Trove, but none of my friends could get over the Voxel graphics, so, you gotta do you, and I respect and embrace that graphics are a HUGE part of MMO's.
Gotta have your stands!
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
"I respect and embrace that graphics are a HUGE part of MMO's."
You mention Trove...I never tried it because the graphics were just too Legoish... Same thing with Minecraft.....Voxels are just hard on the eyes.....To me a game like Trove looks like it was made in the 1970s.
"I respect and embrace that graphics are a HUGE part of MMO's."
You mention Trove...I never tried it because the graphics were just too Legoish... Same thing with Minecraft.....Voxels are just hard on the eyes.....To me a game like Trove looks like it was made in the 1970s.
Trove sucks ass, it's has some decent ideas but execution is shit - probably because the original creators bailed years ago.
Minecraft is one of the most modded games in history - so that is pretty awesome, also with RTX + high texture packs - it looks amazing.
I think sequels happen for a reason. If there's no more story to tell or the features are no longer compelling they don't work. I suppose an argument could be made that relying on an old system/story doesn't push innovation as quickly as starting from scratch, but most things (not just games) work by building on what is already there. I think there's more than enough room for both.
I think sequels happen for a reason. If there's no more story to tell or the features are no longer compelling they don't work. I suppose an argument could be made that relying on an old system/story doesn't push innovation as quickly as starting from scratch, but most things (not just games) work by building on what is already there. I think there's more than enough room for both.
Well let's take Pantheon...Does it help or hurt that it is being made to be similar to Everquest?
I think sequels happen for a reason. If there's no more story to tell or the features are no longer compelling they don't work. I suppose an argument could be made that relying on an old system/story doesn't push innovation as quickly as starting from scratch, but most things (not just games) work by building on what is already there. I think there's more than enough room for both.
Well let's take Pantheon...Does it help or hurt that it is being made to be similar to Everquest?
It's the only reason I am following it.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Right now there are a lot of older mmorogs still up and running. Part of me celebrates that. I like the idea that I can always go home.
But I have to believe that game makers take these games into account in assessing how well the market space is being serviced. Maybe if more old mmorpgs went inactive, new ones would appear. Or maybe not. But I think it's worth discussing.
I think allot of older games are still going because the past 10 years MMO developers keep trying to make fad MMOs. MOBAs make more money, so we get MMOs with MOBA combat. Battle Royal are big winners right now. So developers start pushing that content on MMOs.
The biggest and most popular MMOs and the longest running MMOs are tab targeting and the trinity system. Fact is, most MMOers (ESO proves not all) Want a slower combat style that requires more thought into what skill comes next over action combat. When you play for 3hr with friends, playing twitch combat becomes repetitive and not much fun.
Put short: Older games will keep going as long as modern developers dont get it!!!!!! We want modern games but twitch is a neish in the MMO market.
For those interested in the idea of minecraft or Trove with better graphics perhaps try Boundless? Torval and I play it and it is quite the game. Pretty deep and very compelling. It is even an mmo for those that care.
Two years ago the general consensus seemed to be sort of "meh"
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"I respect and embrace that graphics are a HUGE part of MMO's."
You mention Trove...I never tried it because the graphics were just too Legoish... Same thing with Minecraft.....Voxels are just hard on the eyes.....To me a game like Trove looks like it was made in the 1970s.
That was the core idea of Trove to look 8bit. Unlike Minecraft, Trove is an actual MMO.
But I stand by what I said, the graphics have to work for you, if the graphics are a deal breaker, then that is what they are,. Nothing but respect.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Right now there are a lot of older mmorogs still up and running. Part of me celebrates that. I like the idea that I can always go home.
But I have to believe that game makers take these games into account in assessing how well the market space is being serviced. Maybe if more old mmorpgs went inactive, new ones would appear. Or maybe not. But I think it's worth discussing.
i think it has an affect. But with old school games, i don't think the population is very large. It might be tens of thousands of gamers, but not much more i think. in that light, the effect is small. Business wants hundreds of thousnads or millions of gamers. Thousands (or tens) will barely register on their radar unless they're indie or something.
i think another issue is gamers, as a whole, are entrenched--even AAA gamers. we stick to the same games and it's hard to move away from them. another game has to be really REALLY better.
maybe another thign is .... i consider myself an old school gamers. i a lot of modern games don't appeal to me because they seem to be selling themselves to casual mainstream gamers. i don't like casual games. even though i'm working i lot, i still want the same game i always wanted: deep, non-linear, freeform character development, open world, slow (or expensive fast travel), ai simulation (npcs act more like players than vendors), sandbox (building on the terrain), non-instanced, choices and consequences (although i lean towards flexible systems, for example being able to untrain skills and train new ones, or being able to mend relations with old enemies), longterm progression, world over game, rewarding time spent and rewarding expert players, and maybe some ffa pvp with safe zones.
there's a definite downside to this. i dont think most develoeprs, or designers, want to make indie games, mostly because of the marginalizing and rejection. indie gmaes, by and large, are niche because htye have to be. they just don't have enough money to compete with aaa, so they try to appeal to particular audiences to compensate for lacking visuals and quality. aaa, by and large, has to be mainstream because it requires huge budgeting to afford AAA quality results. deep down most people want to be popular and make mainstream games. it makes them feel better inside. who likes to feel like the reject? nobody, even if it's a passion project.
It isn't so much that the old games harm creation of new ones, but that there are simply other ways of making games now that are much cheaper and lure in bigger crowds...We can blame cell phones for this, but who can blame the devs for making games that cost a fraction of what a MMO would, and you still make the same or more profits?
It isn't so much that the old games harm creation of new ones, but that there are simply other ways of making games now that are much cheaper and lure in bigger crowds...We can blame cell phones for this, but who can blame the devs for making games that cost a fraction of what a MMO would, and you still make the same or more profits?
Old games don't hurt creation of new games. At the same time, acquiring players from old games for new games is expensive. They have to dislodge the players from the old game and encourage them to play the new game. MMORPGs are particularly noted for creating strong emotional bonds with players.
Many companies don't seem to realize the cost of customer acquisition. (Or recognize players are customers).
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
"I respect and embrace that graphics are a HUGE part of MMO's."
You mention Trove...I never tried it because the graphics were just too Legoish... Same thing with Minecraft.....Voxels are just hard on the eyes.....To me a game like Trove looks like it was made in the 1970s.
That was the core idea of Trove to look 8bit. Unlike Minecraft, Trove is an actual MMO.
But I stand by what I said, the graphics have to work for you, if the graphics are a deal breaker, then that is what they are,. Nothing but respect.
There is most times 30-50 in a world , max is 100 .. does not equal an MMO .. its a Hub Based multiplayer .. And there is nothing wrong with that ..
I think a large part of why most MMOs die on arrival is that they face unfair and impossible comparisons to the amount of content accumulated by WoW over years and years of subscription-funded service.
This is why new games have to offer gameplay that is different enough to warrant interest based on new ideas and concepts and not the same old shit that Everquest, WoW and other old games have.
You cannot compete with 15 years of content, but if you make a new game with new concepts, new ideas and new mechanics that players flock to - then you make those 15 years of content irrelevant.
and I guess they did that...it's called Fortnite......We just didn't like the direction it went.
Interestingly enough, no matter how much each person feels that life should deliver on their personal wants and desires, turns out that's not how life works
Ah... but see, if a game wants , my money, they best cater to what I find enjoyable, yes?
Agreed, that my desires may not agree with "the masses"
I think this is a very good point and something developers should also consider when making games. When an MMO evolves over time it also affects how new games are created. People will look at the current product and try to reproduce it instead of “going back in time” to the original success and building off of that. The saturation if you look is based on the then current games and not the originals.
I feel like if new mmos were based on the original successes and ignored the transformation we would see a much different landscape. I could be wrong of course, but I do think it would create more diversity that way. The games were a success because of how they started, not because of how they ended up. For the most part.
MMO's will always see new ones until we see remastering and new engines for current MMO's. Considering the biggest of them all has never felt the need to remaster, I'm not expecting it to become a thing.
The reason BDO made it was graphics and a new combat style. Amazon has dipped their toes in to the MMO potential. Eventually we will have an FF17, FF18 or forward that will replace FF14. I fully expect a cyberpunk-ish MMO in the next few years.
I have a feeling PS5 and XBox Series X is going to create drive for MMO's too. MMO's where PC gamers will be the plebs in many cases.
Comments
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Gotta have your stands!
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SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO (pre-f2p) - GnH (beta tester) - SWTOR - Neverwinter
Well let's take Pantheon...Does it help or hurt that it is being made to be similar to Everquest?
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
The biggest and most popular MMOs and the longest running MMOs are tab targeting and the trinity system. Fact is, most MMOers (ESO proves not all) Want a slower combat style that requires more thought into what skill comes next over action combat. When you play for 3hr with friends, playing twitch combat becomes repetitive and not much fun.
Put short: Older games will keep going as long as modern developers dont get it!!!!!! We want modern games but twitch is a neish in the MMO market.
https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/476165/for-those-that-play-ed-boundless-how-is-it-so-far
Has it improved significantly since then?
Was it ever "released" or is it still an early access title. ( Since 2014 I believe)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
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거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
But I stand by what I said, the graphics have to work for you, if the graphics are a deal breaker, then that is what they are,. Nothing but respect.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I feel like if new mmos were based on the original successes and ignored the transformation we would see a much different landscape. I could be wrong of course, but I do think it would create more diversity that way. The games were a success because of how they started, not because of how they ended up. For the most part.
Better to have at least something in hand rather than hope discarding it will spawn a preferable replacement in the next bush.