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If you canceled VSOH because of SOE...
jimmyman99
Member UncommonPosts: 3,221
If you decided to NOT buy VSOH becuase of the deal with SOE read this.
First of all, some time passed since the breaking news about Sigil and SOE deal, so people had some time to think over logicaly without emotions all the information Brad (Sigil) and John (SOE) gave us. So far we have the following facts:
- Sigil bought back whatever rights Microsoft had to VSOH, which means Sigil has full control over Vanguard (including development). According to Brad, that money did NOT come from SOE. Sigil has more control over Vanguard then before the deal with Microsoft. This split was amicable and agreed mutually by MS and Sigil.
- SOE will produce Vanguard for Sigil, meaning SOE will be responcible for CSR, servers and some other minor stuff. Basically, SOE will provide support to Sigil. SOE will NOT have any say in game development whatsoever. Sigil maintains full control over VSOH.
Ok, now that I got basic facts, time to think thos over. My first reaction to these news was distrust and even cancelation of my purchasing plans. But I had some time to think, I read MMORPG forums, read official forums, read what Brad posted and I realized that my first reaction was purely emotional, not logical. If you think logically, Sigil is in a better position to control VSOH now then before. MS has no say in development as it did before, and SOE doesnt have a say in it either.
I understand that SOE has a very negative history of game development. EQ was great but when SOE bought it, it steadily went down. EQ2 didnt turn out as good as Id hope (it was OK, but not great). SWG... well, why disturb an open wound? Planetside - several questionable moves and bad updates (not as bad IMO but judging from playerbase, those updates werent that much liked). So having a company with this kind of record, one can fall under temptation to NOT give a dime or even a cent to SOE. I understand that. I was about to do the same. But you have to remember one thing, Sigil is not SOE, nor is SOE milking Sigil. Sigil is an independent company, and we should support it. Sigil seems to be trying to make a different type of MMORPG, why would we want to kill it before it even forms if everyone is sick of the cookie cutter standard that most MMORPGs seem to follow? Why choke an independent developer just because their servers and CSR will be handled by another company? Its like saying you wont shop in WallMart just becuase they sell CocaCola.
My advice to all of you who canceled their plans to purchase VSOH - dont give up yet. Brad said that SOE will NOT influence development of VSOH, nor will Sigil sell out to SOE. Seeing as there is nothing unique on the MMORPG market right now, give Sigil a chance to develop something unique.
To conclude this, I really hope Sigil stays true to their pledge and I hope Brad's words arent made of wind. I hope VSOH is what it claims to be and maybe, just maybe I will have another gret MMORPG to play. We should support ANY company that has new ideas, doesnt scam people and doesnt break promises. Dont act with your emotions, but your logic.
PS: Please forgive my grammar. No matter how many years I live in Canada it seems that English will never trully be my first language. Whatever I do, my instict often takes over and I start writing in my native tongue with english words. The curse of the multi-linguist.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Then you get to the whole launchpad thing,, your computer connected all the time to the launchpad system,, now remember this is from the same company that put rootkits onto cd's. Sorry but logically I only want my computer connected to my ISP and my instant messenger all the time. Not to a company that has no qualms about tossing a rootkit onto anyones computer.
It's just not worth it to me when as time goes on Van looks to me to be nothing more than what a lot of people have been asking for on the boards. EQ with better graphics and a different world to mess around in. A game with lots of challenege - where the challenge is just another word for a grind. Compared to most other games coming out around the same time Van ranks lower than they do in my book once you factor in everything ( innovation, looks, gameplay, SOE/Sony, etc).
Your argument can go both ways ,, how many people are sticking with Van because they are emotionally attached and emotional about it and not thinking logically? They want to believe it will be a great game and ignore anything thats bad or possibly bad about the game.
I am going to be quite logical and not touch Van or any SOE game or anything dealing with launchpad till they prove they are trustworthy and worthy or earning my money.
Believe me, I had no issue with Sigil, Brad or MS until SOE popped up. I followed this game religiously to get away from SOE as much as possbile. I understand alot of people really dont care who makes the game or who is doing the distributing, as long as its enjoyable. But I unfortantley had bad luck with 3 of their games. EQ, SWG and Planetside.
I did'nt even give EQ2 a chance after the SWG saga and went straight to Planetside. I can only speak from my experience with this company. I know some people out there had better luck than I did. But now I am going with my instinct on this one also due to the fact there are alot more interesting mmo's out there that are being released this year and next that dont have a SOE name tagged on it.
This game might be the best mmo next to slice bread, but I wont be giving it a try now.
very intelligent post. My only concern is that SOE has a "market stradegy" with all of their investments. Vanguard as it is now doesnt really seem to fit into it IMO. Vanguard is a game that will draw subs away from both EQ's and swg (wow also, but talking soe here). Simply by aligning themselves with sigil, they've ran off a portion of vanguard followers, and i would expect vanguard developement to cease and be absorbed into EQ2. Eliminating one of the if not THE next game that would have hit soe where it hurts..the EQ's. Furthermore, with the SOE brand being known as the company not to do business with throughout all MMORPG players..they may be dropping the SOE name and reforming under verant..or even sigil:) I know it doesnt make much sense...sorta like soe publishing a game and putting it into there station access with 2 other games that are very similar.
OR,
sigil wanted to be on consoles...didnt sound like it was gonna happen anytime soon with xbox360..so they went to sony. Or maybe this deal will allow them to be on all platforms, since smed already said soe would NOT make games playable on xbox and this was the best way to get vanguard on em all.
I for one seem to think vanguard will never release. Would be easier for soe just to eliminate its competition. but these companies and their GAMES. Its all so top secret! Like they all arent in bed with each other anyway..milking every cent out of every little idea before introducing some other tiny improvement and then the industry milks and repeats in unison.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Sony making a defensive purchase? Never heard of that in respect to a video game, but I suppose it's possible.
Dude why would MS let a good game go? Ask your self that and you will find your answer.
MS would not let a good game go. Vangaurd is underdeveloped and way off the time frame of relese. MS DUMPED vangaurd Sigil didnt leave them lol. MS dumped the game and SONY bought it. But sigil is said to have the rights to making the game. But its all just typing. I perfer to think for my self.
heres what i think happend.
MS dumped vangaurd because it was underdelvolped. I cant see a huge company like MS dumping the "the future of MMOS" Why would they let such a good thing go? MS didnt let a good game go. They dumped a crappy game. And guess what SONY got its grubby little paws on it. SOE will take over the game sooner or later. The it will become part of the 699.99 Full game package along with SWG in its Xmas Pack for PS3.
i could be wrong this aint a flame at all i just try to look at the obivious. I dont belive everything i read and Companys like mircosoft dont rule the world by letting good games go. I trust MS more then i trust SOE or Sigil. We will all see when the game comes out, just dont hold to much hope.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
I like you.
Easy To explain.
Devs dont make games that are fun for everyone to play. Devs dont care about anyone in the gaming world. Devs dont give a Chit about how you fell about them. Devs make games to make MONEY. (period if you dont understand and think "brad likes us gamers" your in idiot) Not that brad is a bad guy he just wants to make YOUR money. He will tell you what ever you want to hear to make YOUR money. I like how people think that brad cares about people on the forums lmao
Hes my vision.
Two people walk to a table- Brad and MS. They walk away with a deal to make vangaurd. Brad DIDNT walk away with the upper hand. Brad didnt tell MS to go get phcked. I would think that MS had the upper hand and dropped brads funding.
And being that MS owns everything i dont think they want to share money with sony. but maybe.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Hes my vision.
Two people walk to a table- Brad and MS. They walk away with a deal to make vangaurd. Brad DIDNT walk away with the upper hand. Brad didnt tell MS to go get phcked. I would think that MS had the upper hand and dropped brads funding.
And being that MS owns everything i dont think they want to share money with sony. but maybe.
so who exactly is funding developement now? The publisher usually fronts the initial cost of developement right? Who's paying the bills now?
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Hes my vision.
Two people walk to a table- Brad and MS. They walk away with a deal to make vangaurd. Brad DIDNT walk away with the upper hand. Brad didnt tell MS to go get phcked. I would think that MS had the upper hand and dropped brads funding.
And being that MS owns everything i dont think they want to share money with sony. but maybe.
so who exactly is funding developement now? The publisher usually fronts the initial cost of developement right? Who's paying the bills now?
I thin MS has intrest in the game but sony is paying for it now.
Yes, all devs are driven by money, otherwise there is no point in making a game, even if u r filthy rich. If i were THE richest guy in the world, my #1 objective would be to create a game that would bring me fame and recognision, but #2 reason - money. So, whats the best way to make a lot of money? Easy - by making customers happy. Why was EQ so damn popular before? And why is it not right now? Easy - EQ1 was one of its kind. There were barely any other MMORPGs on the market at that time. What does that mean? It means that SOE didnt have to do a lot to gain customers. If there are only 5 types of cars in the world, you dont really have to make then cheap or fancy or pleasant. People will often buy them because there was not much choice. Now, that time has passed, and now there are many MMORPGS on the market. But there isnt much diversity there. Most of them are fairly the same - forced grouping, boring grinding, lots of high end content but hard to get to it. Now dont get me wrong, im not saying that those things are BAD, im saying we need diversity.
Look at WoW, a more or less generic game that didnt bring much "uniqueness" feel to MMORPG market, and yet it was and still is so highly addictive that millions players still play it. THere are many problems with WoW, no questions, but why people play it? Becuase its different. im not gonna be going into details what things are different in WoW, becuase thats not the point. The point is, WoW has branched away from the trend. It is so popular, that this branching from the trend started its own trend. Look at EQ2, how they desperately try to "shift" to WoW. And there is danger in this - the more sucess one game brings, the more MMORPG games that follow that trend will spawn. We have to be carefull here because next thing we know we have WoW, WoW2, WoW3, Super WoW, WoW and the dancing gnomes and then WoW and singing Orcs - all of which will be WoW-clones. The whole point of "unique" games like Vanguard, Conan, D&L is to start yet another trend, and then another so that at the end, we have a real diversity - not many games that look the same.
And here is the real problem. As I stated in my original post, SOE will have NO effect on the development of VSOH. I cannot stress that enough. That is the ONLY one reason why im clinging to Vanguard like my grandpa clang to the last bottle of wine. One game (DnL) has more or less died off already. If Vanguard dies off becuase people refused to buy it only becuase they think SOE will screw it up eventually, then the only other trully unique major game left on the market would be Conan, perhaps also Darkfall, but I dunno much about it to decide yet.
Once again, SOE has NO say on what Vanguard will be like. So I dont expect any "combat upgrades" 2 months after the launch, or some classes eliminated or bugged to the point they arent playable, or any major change in the gameplay. I choose to give the benfit of the doubt to Brad - I hope he does keep his word about his relationship with SOE and John, and I trully hope hes not gonna bend under pressure from SOE. But we need to show some support - NOT to SOE, but to Sigil.
Everything above is concerning SOE and development of Vanguard. Regarding the job that SOE will be taking care of, specifically CSR, servers... - yes, thats the only thing I worry about. I really dislike SOE CSR, but as my experience shows CSR in big companies is usualy lacking because they dont care for individual customers, small companies do becuase each customer is accounted for. The only thing I dont worry about from SOE side is server stability - starting with EQ1, Ive never heard any repeated major server issues with SOE games.
In conclusion, I ask everyone not to dismiss Vanguard just becuase SOE will host their servers. I dont even think Vanguard will go through launchpad ( I havent seen any info on this, any1 care to link some info plz? ). But regardless what SOE does for Sigil, as long as they stay away from ANY "development" with Vanguard, I employ everyone to stay calm, check the forums and read what people say about Vanguard when it goes into open beta nad NDA is lifted. In no way am I saying you should buy it, just dont dismiss it right away. For now, I chose to trust Brad - he seems to be passionate about his project, but if I spot any hint of farlanism, ill drop the hammer on my VSOH plans faster then i flush my toilet in a bad case of diarhea...
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
MS dumped Sigil because it was underdevelopt. It would have cost MS at least more money, than they could make somewhere else with this money (i.e stocks, the upcomeing directx10 etc). Brad needed more time and more money.
While SOE with its station pass speculates in getting as much mmorpg as possible, so they get more people to buy this pass.
Those 2 companys speculate on total different things. MS wanted a mmorpg which pays off by itself and SOE want a mmorpg which pays off with the help of many other mmorpgs.
MS dumping Vanguard does not neccesary mean that Vanguard will be a bad game. SOE can advertise with Vanguard in its list better than without it.
I honestly believe that Vanguard will be an excellent game in the end, just with a crappy customer support. I never needed customer support. Many other people also never needed a customer support.
Of course if I will need customer support in Vanguard, I know that I will be screwed.
But hey: no risk, no fun.
Hes my vision.
Two people walk to a table- Brad and MS. They walk away with a deal to make vangaurd. Brad DIDNT walk away with the upper hand. Brad didnt tell MS to go get phcked. I would think that MS had the upper hand and dropped brads funding.
And being that MS owns everything i dont think they want to share money with sony. but maybe.
so who exactly is funding developement now? The publisher usually fronts the initial cost of developement right? Who's paying the bills now?
I thin MS has intrest in the game but sony is paying for it now.
ahh..ty.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
SOE will produce Vanguard for Sigil, meaning SOE will be responcible for CSR,
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I know what you mean. Its a very touchy point for us players. Does Brad trully passionate about his work and will he stay to the end resisting all SOE attempts to influence this game? Or will he gain a critical player mass and then just sell this to the highest bidder (which most likely would be SOE)? The answer is - I dont know. So far he hasnt openly lied about anything, he didnt try to cover up this news (doubt that he could even if he tried). So for now I tend to trust Brad. But yeah, that feeling of "what if he sells out" keeps bugging me every time I think about vanguard.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Im also staying on the cautious side, I try not to believe everything the company says. I had very high hopes for Dark and Light before it went into beta with fatal SOG. And we all know what happened next.
I work in a small company, 2nd to the owner so I kidna see how he manages his company - and often I diasgree with his decisions becuase I see them from the user point. However, after seeing him do business over my objections, I saw that most, if not all of his decisions were made out from the business point of view. Often users like you and me will not see the benefits of this or that move. And it sux, becuase neither you nor I can guess what are they "really" trying to do. Are they doing what they say they are doing? Weve been lied to for so long so many times we begin to question EVERYTHING they do or dont do. And thats normal. We are beginning to show those big companies that we, consumers, have the power. That they cannot screw us over without major consequences. U make a promise and lie about it? Fine, no1 will play your game. You do it 5 times? Now1 will play ANY of your games. Just have to remember not to hurt the little guys who develop games separately but rely on bigger guys to put their games on store shelves or to host servers for them.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
I think it was said that Sigil bought the developing rights from MS. Im not a businessman so I dont really know much about what goes where or whos funding who, but from how I understand is publisher only takes care (pays for) the game to be spread across stores, commercials, advertisment stuff like that. Could someone who is more competent then I am on this matter explain it to us all in details please?
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Sony also will add "Vanguard: Saga of Heroes" to the LaunchPad lineup this winter, Pearce said
Jimmy while you may not want people to give up on Van because of SOE , the simple fact is that everyone will be dealing with SOE at login , billing, logout , etc. This is just the simple fact , even if by some miracle they don't touch the game itself. People have had bad experiences with SOE CSR, Billing, and just plain SOE trying to screw their customers (Obi Wan//NGE ring a bell?). SOE is your first contact with the game , and your last contact with the game, and possibly contact within the game itself. Thats just a lot more SOE contact than I and a lot of other people care to have with SOE.