PS: I despise Apple 10x more than I hate Epic. Apple pretty much never does things that benefit the consumer. and they actually do tons of things that make it worse for the consumer, such as massively overpriced hardware and only allowing their company techs to do repairs.
Apple has done some good things. For example, they popularized the GUI, created OpenCL, and killed Flash.
They didn't kill Flash, they just dumped it before they needed to. It was going to die on it's own. But I worded to allow for some nonpredatory things.
It's interesting that you bring up GUIs when everyone knows they got mad at MS for "stealing" from them even though Jobs took it straight from Xerox.
Apple is the king of overpriced hardware, and that ridiculous monitor stand, and locking out affordable repairs to their products. They are at the top of my list of shitty companies kept going by a cult of followers.
If anyone thinks these companies are doing things with the customer in mind then you are foolish. The only thing they see are $$$ signs. Anywhere they can make an extra buck they will.
Epic gets mad about there 30% cut but they are using Apples platform.
Yet EGS strong arms the gaming community away from there desired platform to there own.
Regardless of how you want to paint it, It's still going to come out green. Apple is not a monopoly because Android is the other leading OS for phones. All of this is dribble because the other can't make there extra buck so they need to call the masses that blindly follow.
Either nothing will happen or things will actually get better for everyone.
I’m hoping Microsoft joins in and makes it even stronger.
The App Store will never go away, but having more options as developers to get your App to people the better, even if it’s just choosing your payment options.
Regardless of who wins and who loses this case, the pig picture here is that mobile users are losing access to their game and if they spent money on it on that platform they just lost their money as well. This has happened on PC and on console before. And Google did it with the Shadowrun games a while ago too.
My take on this? EFF every monopolistic company that pull this kind of crap, taking users money then removing the game because there's a fly on their soup.
/rant.
Well, if the company expects to be paid for their service and those using the service create a way to circumvent that then why shouldn't they remove them?
If that is indeed what is going on here.
yes, but it's not the players who are coming up with this, it's another company that also rely on users. What i'm trying to say is that at the end of the day, the users are always the ones being played for fools while these companies fight each other over every single thing.
To be honest, screw apple, Google, and epic. None of these corporations are your friend, and Epic is trying to play the victim card while also having a literal "Call to arms" video queued up the moment the story broke. It was all planned, and its incredibly scummy. Let them sort their own crap out, beat each other with bags of money and legal documents. No need to rally the consumers who gain nothing from it regardless of outcome. Fortnite will continue to exist, app store will continue to exist, and they'll all still make millions.
How did Epic think this was going to end? The whole point of offering stores like that is that the company that runs the store gets a cut of the sales. They pretty much have to kick out any products that so blatantly violate their policy by avoiding giving the store a cut of their sales. Google and Apple did what they pretty much had to do in response to such a flagrant violation of their rules. If the Epic store were more established, Epic almost surely would have done the same to a game that tried to avoid giving Epic a cut of the sales to be in their store.
There is an enormous difference between Google and Apple here in that you can get Android apps without going through the Google Play store, but for iOS, everything has to go through Apple. If the latter upsets you, then don't buy anything that runs iOS. Apple has handled iOS that way from the very start, so it's not like they're springing a surprise on you years later.
But it could be an anti-trust issue.
I really don't see a plausible anti-trust case against Apple. They have far too small of market share in their main markets.
If you want to argue that the market is iOS alone, then they're just using the game console business model: the company that builds the console takes a cut of software sales on it. Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft have been doing that for decades. To abruptly make that illegal would have implications that extend far beyond cell phones.
The anti-trust case against Google is much stronger, but the Google Play store really isn't even part of that case. Rather, the anti-trust case against Google is that it uses its dominance of the search and web advertising markets to gain an unfair advantage in other markets.
It's easier to make an antitrust case against Apple than it's to make against consoles.
A console is meant so specifically for gaming that it's hard to argue that games for that console are separate market from the console OS and hardware. With mobile phones it's easier to argue that apps should be separate market from providing the phone.
Just imagine Google deciding to remove all Fortnite related content - fortnite searches , Youtube videos, fortnite streams on youtube... it would be catastrophic for Epic.
Epic must have already considered this and possibly don't care.
I think that 48% stake may possibly be a problem in December if a certain outcome occurs.
We may be viewing desperate behavior by people with more information than we are privy to.
Everyone crying about “big company epic” fighting to take more of your money are completely IGNORING THE INDIES that would benefit FAR more than Epic from a change here. You think 30% is fucking chump change? That can easily make or break an indie. Stop being so god damn close minded.
You think 30% is fucking chump change? That can easily make or break an indie. Stop being so god damn close minded.
Respectfully, no it would not. Indie mobile game overhead is significantly less than every other type of game development which is why many mobile game companies can operate out of a single suite in a office building with minimal staff and/or work remotely. They can also pass off game ownership from one company to another like it's no big deal cause the overhead is low and profit margins are high vs PC & Console.
Also, there are quite a few mobile game companies from countries where the currency value is significantly lower than the west so when they sell stuff that 30% fee becomes well worth it after the conversion cause they are still making what some would call a small fortune from that 70%.
You think 30% is fucking chump change? That can easily make or break an indie. Stop being so god damn close minded.
Respectfully, no it would not. Indie mobile game overhead is significantly less than every other type of game development which is why many mobile game companies can operate out of a single suite in a office building with minimal staff and/or work remotely. They can also pass off game ownership from one company to another like it's no big deal cause the overhead is low and profit margins are high vs PC & Console.
Also, there are quite a few mobile game companies from countries where the currency value is significantly lower than the west so when they sell stuff that 30% fee becomes well worth it after the conversion cause they are still making what some would call a small fortune from that 70%.
[mod edit[
Rock on Epic and Tim Sweeney. Glad someone who made money is looking out for the little guys too. Everyone else can eat a fat one. I don’t care about you.
How did Epic think this was going to end? The whole point of offering stores like that is that the company that runs the store gets a cut of the sales. They pretty much have to kick out any products that so blatantly violate their policy by avoiding giving the store a cut of their sales. Google and Apple did what they pretty much had to do in response to such a flagrant violation of their rules. If the Epic store were more established, Epic almost surely would have done the same to a game that tried to avoid giving Epic a cut of the sales to be in their store.
There is an enormous difference between Google and Apple here in that you can get Android apps without going through the Google Play store, but for iOS, everything has to go through Apple. If the latter upsets you, then don't buy anything that runs iOS. Apple has handled iOS that way from the very start, so it's not like they're springing a surprise on you years later.
But it could be an anti-trust issue.
I really don't see a plausible anti-trust case against Apple. They have far too small of market share in their main markets.
If you want to argue that the market is iOS alone, then they're just using the game console business model: the company that builds the console takes a cut of software sales on it. Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft have been doing that for decades. To abruptly make that illegal would have implications that extend far beyond cell phones.
The anti-trust case against Google is much stronger, but the Google Play store really isn't even part of that case. Rather, the anti-trust case against Google is that it uses its dominance of the search and web advertising markets to gain an unfair advantage in other markets.
It's easier to make an antitrust case against Apple than it's to make against consoles.
A console is meant so specifically for gaming that it's hard to argue that games for that console are separate market from the console OS and hardware. With mobile phones it's easier to argue that apps should be separate market from providing the phone.
The iPad and iPhone basically are game consoles. Hardly anyone buys an iPhone and then only ever uses it for phone calls.
If Apple let this happened without push back, then EVERY major game dev will follow suit to by pass all of apple's cut with a f2p version and their own "store".
A win win for users is that Epic does not win this, but Apple scale down their fees from the 30% to a more reasonable level.
I don't really see how Apple is a monopoly, which is Epic's legal claim, as there's Android. But, when they both charge 30% to be on their platform it gets damn tricky. Does it become collusion?
PC doesn't have that issue as there are tons more alternatives to Steam AND I've played steam games that let you make payments outside of their ecosystem. Hell even blizzard let's you buy hearthstone stuff at a discount on Amazon.
PS: I despise Apple 10x more than I hate Epic. Apple pretty much never does things that benefit the consumer. and they actually do tons of things that make it worse for the consumer, such as massively overpriced hardware and only allowing their company techs to do repairs.
Doesn't see how apple is a monopoly You know they define themselves as one, same as Microsoft.... Like literally in their official description lol.
If Apple let this happened without push back, then EVERY major game dev will follow suit to by pass all of apple's cut with a f2p version and their own "store".
A win win for users is that Epic does not win this, but Apple scale down their fees from the 30% to a more reasonable level.
How did 30% become the norm for this? It seems ridiculous. What's really needed is regulation of digital platform fees to some sort of max like 15% or 10% plus provable costs from a single app.
How did 30% become the norm for this? It seems ridiculous. What's really needed is regulation of digital platform fees to some sort of max like 15% or 10% plus provable costs from a single app.
It's not an issue that any other developer is causing a stink about. All the consoles charge a 30% fee as well, you'd think that it would be small indie devs that would be speaking out, not some Chinese owned mega-corp.
Epic is just riling up children and getting them to attack. That's a far worse manipulation in this case imo.
How did 30% become the norm for this? It seems ridiculous. What's really needed is regulation of digital platform fees to some sort of max like 15% or 10% plus provable costs from a single app.
It's not an issue that any other developer is causing a stink about. All the consoles charge a 30% fee as well, you'd think that it would be small indie devs that would be speaking out, not some Chinese owned mega-corp.
Epic is just riling up children and getting them to attack. That's a far worse manipulation in this case imo.
Small devs aren't causing a fuss because: -Getting thrown out of app store and having to pay the legal process would bankrupt them -Even if they won they aren't trying to create their own competing store so they'd have lot less to gain from winning
It doesn't mean small devs would be happy about the 30% charge. More like they're resigned that trying to challenge it would be worse business decision.
That's a good take. I found Hoeg Law's take especially enlightening.
I agree that Epic playing a victim here is pure unadulterated shit - it's disgusting when billion dollar companies are playing the "unjust victim" - it's sickening.
The whole thing is staged - video was pre-made, lawsuits ready to go - it's all shit.
One thing I have an issue with is the reason for this - the video sums it up as it's all about money - but while certainly it's a factor - it doesn't really add up alone.
Fortnite :
Apple/Google - take 30% (only 8% of fortnite players are mobile) Playstation and Xbox take 30% (78% of fortnite players are console players)
Suing both Apple and Google for less than 10% of their Fortnite players doesn't add up.
The clear reason why this isn't purely about money - why aren't they suing MS and Sony - they also take 30% cut and 78% of players play there - the 30% they pay on that 78% playerbase is a fuckton higher than 30% pay to Apple/Google for 8% players
The lawsuit will cost Epic more than 8% player loss.
The reason for lawsuit for just money doesn't add up to me.
To not get 78% of the base being locked out because of a reaction from MS & Sony? To have a better leverage if they win there against to others? To win in some long game with future plans that are unknown by the public? Tencent forbade them to do so/encouraged them to engage Apple/Google?
Any one or all of the above or something entirely different.
Comments
Epic gets mad about there 30% cut but they are using Apples platform.
Yet EGS strong arms the gaming community away from there desired platform to there own.
Regardless of how you want to paint it, It's still going to come out green. Apple is not a monopoly because Android is the other leading OS for phones. All of this is dribble because the other can't make there extra buck so they need to call the masses that blindly follow.
yes, but it's not the players who are coming up with this, it's another company that also rely on users. What i'm trying to say is that at the end of the day, the users are always the ones being played for fools while these companies fight each other over every single thing.
Yup, 1984 is here to stay.
No fate but what we make, so make me a ham sandwich please.
A console is meant so specifically for gaming that it's hard to argue that games for that console are separate market from the console OS and hardware. With mobile phones it's easier to argue that apps should be separate market from providing the phone.
Rock on Epic and Tim Sweeney. Glad someone who made money is looking out for the little guys too. Everyone else can eat a fat one. I don’t care about you.
A win win for users is that Epic does not win this, but Apple scale down their fees from the 30% to a more reasonable level.
Doesn't see how apple is a monopoly You know they define themselves as one, same as Microsoft.... Like literally in their official description lol.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Epic is just riling up children and getting them to attack. That's a far worse manipulation in this case imo.
-Getting thrown out of app store and having to pay the legal process would bankrupt them
-Even if they won they aren't trying to create their own competing store so they'd have lot less to gain from winning
It doesn't mean small devs would be happy about the 30% charge. More like they're resigned that trying to challenge it would be worse business decision.
To have a better leverage if they win there against to others?
To win in some long game with future plans that are unknown by the public?
Tencent forbade them to do so/encouraged them to engage Apple/Google?
Any one or all of the above or something entirely different.
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