Star Citizen has been very careful to make clear that donating money to SC is just that, a donation. They are not guaranteeing a finished product, no expectation of a finished game is implied when you donate, and you are not "buying" anything.
They also make clear that nobody gets a refund if there is no game at the end.
So it's not a fraud, so long as you remember that you are simply giving money away, not buying anything.
I have read about a phenomenon where victoms of a con may support the con, and defend the con against all its critics, and swear to how much they like the con - right up until the very last moment when they are forced to confront the fact that they have been swindled.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
The "max average" is a statistic defined to always be "almost $400", regardless of the data set that it is applied to. It's really not a very useful statistic. That's why you had never heard of it before.
" -663 773 other game owners who had paid less than $1 000, bringing total game owners to: 726 127 people"
Just to be clear, there are no game "owners". Nobody can buy the game, or own it. There are people who donated money towards a possible future game that may or may not ever come to fruition.
But nobody "owns" the game.
The legal definition of a donation is this:
Donation is the act by which the owner of a thing voluntarily transfers the title and possession of the same from himself to another person, without any consideration; a gift.
I have no idea why you and a handful of others are so insistent in buying into the semantics of crowdfunded games "donations."
You can't ignore the "without any consideration" part of the definition.
If you get something of value back for making your "donation" - i.e. a consideration - it isn't one.
And folks usually don't get charged taxes on donations.....
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
" -663 773 other game owners who had paid less than $1 000, bringing total game owners to: 726 127 people"
Just to be clear, there are no game "owners". Nobody can buy the game, or own it. There are people who donated money towards a possible future game that may or may not ever come to fruition.
But nobody "owns" the game.
If you want to get technical, you don't own any of your digital games, at best you only get a license to use them.
But in this case I used the term "owner" because the statistics use term "backer" to mean only those backers without concierge status. Backers who have concierge status are counted as "concierge" and not included in the group of backers.
I thought it was so confusing and unclear that in my earlier post I just complained about unclear choice of terms and made sure that post did not include the term "backer" at all.
Star Citizen has been very careful to make clear that donating money to SC is just that, a donation. They are not guaranteeing a finished product, no expectation of a finished game is implied when you donate, and you are not "buying" anything.
They also make clear that nobody gets a refund if there is no game at the end.
So it's not a fraud, so long as you remember that you are simply giving money away, not buying anything.
loooool....In a perfect world maybe; but we all know if someone with enough money wanted to go after them and argue their intent in court, they can. No guarantee CR would win just because people agree to some terms.
A big no, simply because a few backers try it already and was denied by Court. You know, the real justice not some forum 'expert'. Going to court is useless because of this and more important, because CIG do deliver more than what backer pledged for. There is no fraud, SC is playable in alpha and CIG is going to implement in the next fe"w quarters the remaining two core techs: Icache and server meshing.
Beside naysayers/haters and their two dictionary of two words scam+ponzi... there is nothing to sue
I can see you pledge like 59USD as a "preorder" bet on this unfinished garbage. But there are people pledging over 20k USD...
Poor idiots
Keep ignoring on purposes those multi K$ backers are less than 150 out of 1 million normal backers pledging.
Those whales total pledges is 1.5M$ after 8 years versus 313M$ from all others normal backers.
I got already hundreds of hours with my 45$ starter package. Best ratio $ vs entertainment.
I can see you pledge like 59USD as a "preorder" bet on this unfinished garbage. But there are people pledging over 20k USD...
Poor idiots
Keep ignoring on purposes those multi K$ backers are less than 150 out of 1 million normal backers pledging.
Those whales total pledges is 1.5M$ after 8 years versus 313M$ from all others normal backers.
I got already hundreds of hours with my 45$ starter package. Best ratio $ vs entertainment.
Why are you still trying?
Because everybody knows that your propaganda BS doesn't work here anymore?
I can see you pledge like 59USD as a "preorder" bet on this unfinished garbage. But there are people pledging over 20k USD...
Poor idiots
Keep ignoring on purposes those multi K$ backers are less than 150 out of 1 million normal backers pledging.
Those whales total pledges is 1.5M$ after 8 years versus 313M$ from all others normal backers.
I got already hundreds of hours with my 45$ starter package. Best ratio $ vs entertainment.
Based on that statistic the number of people paying is a bit over 700 000. Not one million.
Also they've got more than 62 thousand people who've paid at least $1K. We don't know how many of them have paid multi K$, but realistically that number is thousands, not less than 150.
There are some problems with his methods so unfortuantly we are only really looking at people who have logged into the spectrum (game forum), or bought a game package since update to spectrum. That has the flaw that "backer status is dependant upon having accessed the account in the current iteration of Spectrum." So my guess is that is why he is using Maximum Average.
It also means people who have pledged pre spectrum have there money counted towards backing but arent counted either if they havent logged into spectrum. Of which I know a quite a few in a group of friends who actually got me into SC then never played as they all got married and moved for jobs.
Also people who like my friend was gifted the game aren't counted either as you have to spent $10 personally to be counted as a backer.
So while interesting data take it with a pinch of salt as it has a decent margin of error.
Updated for additional information from an interview from 2016 "Of the one million user accounts that includes the Roberts Space Industries platform, 500,000 fans have already pre-purchased content in the game"
It means the average can't be higher than that, but it can be lower.
The author does not know what the average is, he's just determined it can't be more than that.
No, this only means that the author does not know what an average is, period. Which happens to be a rather meaningless figure in this case anyway. This is why people usually don't speak about an "average salary", as even with 50% of the population below the poverty line, a few billionaires can skew he average towards a higher value and give the wrong image. A more useful figure here would have been the median value, or percentile 50 (P50), which gives the value that has 50% of the population earning less (or in our case pledging less) and 50% more. Or better yet, a P80 or P90. In most populations with "wales", the median is quite lower than the average.
I can see you pledge like 59USD as a "preorder" bet on this unfinished garbage. But there are people pledging over 20k USD...
Poor idiots
Nah, let's be honest, we're just jealous. I wish I had enough disposable income that I could throw 20K without thinking twice towards the possibility of maybe one day have an edge over the opposition in a space pvp game .
Just a couple of days ago in Star Trek Online there was a player bragging, claiming, he had spent $14k in Star Citizen. Many of us found it hilarious to be bragging in chat about spending that much in SC while playing STO. It isn't hurting me so let whomever waste, invest, their money as they like & as I like to do. I still remember the days when Alpha/Beta testing a game was a badge of honor & didn't cost so I decided long ago not to "invest" into a game till it releases & often times I wait a little till after release. Too many games nowadays are just casino games with veiled themes of actually being a rpg/rts/fps/mmo.
I really want to know what the people who payed 10k$ or more for a friggin ship REALLY think.
Not some BS that "it's playable" ect just to not look stupid.
I wouldn't pay that much in a fully playable game much less a glorified demo.
10k backer here. I've been in near daily for many years having fun. If you want to know what the big backers really think we are excited about the game, currently having fun (if we weren't we would not be spending money), checking out the quarterly content updates when they come out, and generally goofing off in the game with our spaceships with others either pvping or pveing with the guild. I typically let other backers fly my ships too so they don't need to get it themselves. Or they can use my ship to get enough credits to buy it with in game money. At this point, since you can earn credits and buy ships in game, I tell people to play and buy the ships with earned credits and only give money to Chris Roberts if they are really excited about giving him more money, otherwise don't do it. Plenty people have ships, most are willing to let you fly them, the best money makers can be bought in game with in game credits for not too much game time. Every once in a while I will do a "zero to hero" run where I start in the basic ship and see how long it takes to get in s big credit earner, doesn't take long.
Also it's not 10k for a ship, it's 10k for many ships. Idk exactly how many, probably over 50 though. Yeah also only give lots of money if you have lots of money. If you don't have disposable income then don't buy spaceships and don't get into Warhammer.
I really want to know what the people who payed 10k$ or more for a friggin ship REALLY think.
Not some BS that "it's playable" ect just to not look stupid.
I wouldn't pay that much in a fully playable game much less a glorified demo.
10k backer here. I've been in near daily for many years having fun. If you want to know what the big backers really think we are excited about the game, currently having fun (if we weren't we would not be spending money), checking out the quarterly content updates when they come out, and generally goofing off in the game with our spaceships with others either pvping or pveing with the guild. I typically let other backers fly my ships too so they don't need to get it themselves. Or they can use my ship to get enough credits to buy it with in game money. At this point, since you can earn credits and buy ships in game, I tell people to play and buy the ships with earned credits and only give money to Chris Roberts if they are really excited about giving him more money, otherwise don't do it. Plenty people have ships, most are willing to let you fly them, the best money makers can be bought in game with in game credits for not too much game time. Every once in a while I will do a "zero to hero" run where I start in the basic ship and see how long it takes to get in s big credit earner, doesn't take long.
Also it's not 10k for a ship, it's 10k for many ships. Idk exactly how many, probably over 50 though. Yeah also only give lots of money if you have lots of money. If you don't have disposable income then don't buy spaceships and don't get into Warhammer.
Hope that clears it up. Fly safe!
Welcome to the forums!
We are known for slating big spenders so good of you to post. It seems from what you have said that credits earned in game will not get wiped for launch. Do you think that's fair on those who only play after launch, or do you see it as a perk for all money you are putting in?
You said there was PvP, I assume the ships are not truly destroyed? How do you see the difficulty of space flying and combat compered to other space games?
I wonder when Star Citizen fatigue will set in? At some point the well will go dry no? How long can you go on getting donations like this? Just wondering when it will start getting harder to hit the highs.
I am a $6K backer and I will continue to purchase digital products from CIG to support the development of the game due to the fact that there is progress being made at a pace at which I am satisfied. I have no illusions about the bumps in the road so far with the development of the game, it definitely has not been all rainbows and unicorns. I really don't care if the game takes a decade to complete, I want a game where I can spend the next decade or more playing and enjoying it. I always recommend people play the free fly events and if they do enjoy the game then just purchase the base package as even in the games current state the cost of a base package is well worth the experience you can get out of the game modes and content. I am by no means some crazy white knight but kickstarter and CIG do have disclosures that make people purchasing well aware of what they are getting into. I would say to all the people that are complaining about the crowdfunding process that we have seen with Star Citizen, don't buy it, forget about it for at least another year for the release of SQ42 and probably another year after that for the release of the persistent universe. It will most certainly be released, you have a HUGE population of backers that are in fact game developers and are monitoring the progress, these people would not be supporting the game with their expertise if they did not feel the development was on point or on some measure of success. The whales such as myself will keep the well from going dry and see our dream come to fruition.
I am a $6K backer and I will continue to purchase digital products from CIG to support the development of the game due to the fact that there is progress being made at a pace at which I am satisfied. I have no illusions about the bumps in the road so far with the development of the game, it definitely has not been all rainbows and unicorns. I really don't care if the game takes a decade to complete, I want a game where I can spend the next decade or more playing and enjoying it. I always recommend people play the free fly events and if they do enjoy the game then just purchase the base package as even in the games current state the cost of a base package is well worth the experience you can get out of the game modes and content. I am by no means some crazy white knight but kickstarter and CIG do have disclosures that make people purchasing well aware of what they are getting into. I would say to all the people that are complaining about the crowdfunding process that we have seen with Star Citizen, don't buy it, forget about it for at least another year for the release of SQ42 and probably another year after that for the release of the persistent universe. It will most certainly be released, you have a HUGE population of backers that are in fact game developers and are monitoring the progress, these people would not be supporting the game with their expertise if they did not feel the development was on point or on some measure of success. The whales such as myself will keep the well from going dry and see our dream come to fruition.
That's highly optimistic to think they'll be anything in a year since 8 years ago we were told 5 years max.
The latest thing i heard was that the average backer will not even be alive while this is only another year out from release.
My faith is my shield! - Turalyon 2022
Your legend ends here and now! - (Battles Won Long Ago)
Comments
The author is confusion!
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
But in this case I used the term "owner" because the statistics use term "backer" to mean only those backers without concierge status. Backers who have concierge status are counted as "concierge" and not included in the group of backers.
I thought it was so confusing and unclear that in my earlier post I just complained about unclear choice of terms and made sure that post did not include the term "backer" at all.
A big no, simply because a few backers try it already and was denied by Court. You know, the real justice not some forum 'expert'. Going to court is useless because of this and more important, because CIG do deliver more than what backer pledged for. There is no fraud, SC is playable in alpha and CIG is going to implement in the next fe"w quarters the remaining two core techs: Icache and server meshing.
Beside naysayers/haters and their two dictionary of two words scam+ponzi... there is nothing to sue
Keep ignoring on purposes those multi K$ backers are less than 150 out of 1 million normal backers pledging.
Those whales total pledges is 1.5M$ after 8 years versus 313M$ from all others normal backers.
I got already hundreds of hours with my 45$ starter package. Best ratio $ vs entertainment.
Why are you still trying?
Because everybody knows that your propaganda BS doesn't work here anymore?
Also they've got more than 62 thousand people who've paid at least $1K. We don't know how many of them have paid multi K$, but realistically that number is thousands, not less than 150.
It also means people who have pledged pre spectrum have there money counted towards backing but arent counted either if they havent logged into spectrum. Of which I know a quite a few in a group of friends who actually got me into SC then never played as they all got married and moved for jobs.
Also people who like my friend was gifted the game aren't counted either as you have to spent $10 personally to be counted as a backer.
So while interesting data take it with a pinch of salt as it has a decent margin of error.
Updated for additional information from an interview from 2016 "Of the one million user accounts that includes the Roberts Space Industries platform, 500,000 fans have already pre-purchased content in the game"
No, this only means that the author does not know what an average is, period. Which happens to be a rather meaningless figure in this case anyway. This is why people usually don't speak about an "average salary", as even with 50% of the population below the poverty line, a few billionaires can skew he average towards a higher value and give the wrong image. A more useful figure here would have been the median value, or percentile 50 (P50), which gives the value that has 50% of the population earning less (or in our case pledging less) and 50% more. Or better yet, a P80 or P90. In most populations with "wales", the median is quite lower than the average.
10k backer here. I've been in near daily for many years having fun. If you want to know what the big backers really think we are excited about the game, currently having fun (if we weren't we would not be spending money), checking out the quarterly content updates when they come out, and generally goofing off in the game with our spaceships with others either pvping or pveing with the guild. I typically let other backers fly my ships too so they don't need to get it themselves. Or they can use my ship to get enough credits to buy it with in game money. At this point, since you can earn credits and buy ships in game, I tell people to play and buy the ships with earned credits and only give money to Chris Roberts if they are really excited about giving him more money, otherwise don't do it. Plenty people have ships, most are willing to let you fly them, the best money makers can be bought in game with in game credits for not too much game time. Every once in a while I will do a "zero to hero" run where I start in the basic ship and see how long it takes to get in s big credit earner, doesn't take long.
Also it's not 10k for a ship, it's 10k for many ships. Idk exactly how many, probably over 50 though. Yeah also only give lots of money if you have lots of money. If you don't have disposable income then don't buy spaceships and don't get into Warhammer.
Hope that clears it up. Fly safe!
We are known for slating big spenders so good of you to post. It seems from what you have said that credits earned in game will not get wiped for launch. Do you think that's fair on those who only play after launch, or do you see it as a perk for all money you are putting in?
You said there was PvP, I assume the ships are not truly destroyed? How do you see the difficulty of space flying and combat compered to other space games?