^ And that is the main reason why I want nothing to do with it. Once you start going that route, the boundary between what is "real" and purely virtual becomes blurred. And once you start talking about something having real value, our beloved government begins to take an interest.
I don't want anything in my games to be associated with real value.
Never thought of that before, maybe governments will start taxing NFTs land you would with owning RL land? Its like the start of the internet, its the wild wild west again.
Various governments have looked into the feasibility of taxing certain transactions before, but the lack of RL value has kept them at bay. But, if virtual items begin having RL value that is retained outside of the game and can be transferred... well, taxation and/or regulation won't be far behind.
CAn you imagine the government taxing people for owning many retro games because they have high value in RL?
If, you can buy/sell/trade stuff in a game with Crypto Currencies, like Bitcoin. That would make Crypto a cross game currency, so I could make Money in one game, and move that money to another game, because the Currency is, while not "real" money, it is a 3rd party currency.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
If, you can buy/sell/trade stuff in a game with Crypto Currencies, like Bitcoin. That would make Crypto a cross game currency, so I could make Money in one game, and move that money to another game, because the Currency is, while not "real" money, it is a 3rd party currency.
Exactly my brother.
brb looking for lazer eyes I can put on hatefull's avatar.
If, you can buy/sell/trade stuff in a game with Crypto Currencies, like Bitcoin. That would make Crypto a cross game currency, so I could make Money in one game, and move that money to another game, because the Currency is, while not "real" money, it is a 3rd party currency.
Exactly my brother.
brb looking for lazer eyes I can put on hatefull's avatar.
So if this is true.
Then what we are looking at is an evolution in MMO's.
Where first they sought to stop RMT's with bans and the like.
Then they sought to bypass RMT by selling the product themselves with a Cash Shop.
This would be embracing RMT in their game, just using Crypto Currency.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
If, you can buy/sell/trade stuff in a game with Crypto Currencies, like Bitcoin. That would make Crypto a cross game currency, so I could make Money in one game, and move that money to another game, because the Currency is, while not "real" money, it is a 3rd party currency.
Exactly my brother.
brb looking for lazer eyes I can put on hatefull's avatar.
So if this is true.
Then what we are looking at is an evolution in MMO's.
Where first they sought to stop RMT's with bans and the like.
Then they sought to bypass RMT by selling the product themselves with a Cash Shop.
This would be embracing RMT in their game, just using Crypto Currency.
Yes
That being said, i see i'm super casul at this time. I'm just now watching a guide for a game i've been playing and transacting in with no idea how to make money, or if already am lol. Super casual. What i'm seeing is you can you can interact at your own pace out of pleasure or w/e, kinda like hardcore and casual.
If, you can buy/sell/trade stuff in a game with Crypto Currencies, like Bitcoin. That would make Crypto a cross game currency, so I could make Money in one game, and move that money to another game, because the Currency is, while not "real" money, it is a 3rd party currency.
Exactly my brother.
brb looking for lazer eyes I can put on hatefull's avatar.
So if this is true.
Then what we are looking at is an evolution in MMO's.
Where first they sought to stop RMT's with bans and the like.
Then they sought to bypass RMT by selling the product themselves with a Cash Shop.
This would be embracing RMT in their game, just using Crypto Currency.
Yes
That being said, i see i'm super casul at this time. I'm just now watching a guide for a game i've been playing and transacting in with no idea how to make money, or if already am lol. Super casual. What i'm seeing is you can you can interact at your own pace out of pleasure or w/e, kinda like hardcore and casual.
One of the games I've been playing I thought wasn't that big. I probably could make some money off it, but I haven't even really thought about it. Tried to log in to buy something the other day and it sold out! Before I could even get one. Now people flip that virtual asset for double what I would have paid, it's just insane.
So for me, there are some things that I see where it's like "hmm this could be bad if everything I want gets bought out".
But then on the other hand it's also enticing because every now and then you could have seasonal items you earn in game that could end up selling for a lot when it's off season to people who really want it.
So in some games there's a fine line on what could be "awesome" and what might be really detrimental to some gamers.
If, you can buy/sell/trade stuff in a game with Crypto Currencies, like Bitcoin. That would make Crypto a cross game currency, so I could make Money in one game, and move that money to another game, because the Currency is, while not "real" money, it is a 3rd party currency.
Exactly my brother.
brb looking for lazer eyes I can put on hatefull's avatar.
So if this is true.
Then what we are looking at is an evolution in MMO's.
Where first they sought to stop RMT's with bans and the like.
Then they sought to bypass RMT by selling the product themselves with a Cash Shop.
This would be embracing RMT in their game, just using Crypto Currency.
RMT is what make MMO "real" for me . I have to say that earlier MMORPG was like Crypto Currency mining . Some MMORPG economic value was worth millions US dollar.
Part of the in game drama i enjoyed , for example someone got jackpot this day or people fight for the loots on another days . This kind of "story" make the game so real and unpredictable
They make the game feel more real than current cash shop wow clones.
In those day , there were people win , there were people lost . but nowadays , we are all lost.
What does it mean to "own" the loot you acquire in a game, anyway? How is that different from what customarily goes on with computer games now? Does it actually mean anything at all, or is it just empty buzzwords?
Does owning loot in games mean that developers cannot arbitrarily delete the item from your inventory? If it doesn't, then it's hard to imagine what it could mean to "own" your loot.
But if it does mean that, then that's even worse. If something goes horribly wrong, does it mean that developers can't roll back the server? If they can't do that, then the risk of database problems isn't the customary one of losing a day of progress or whatever to a rollback. The risk is being stuck with a database in a permanently broken and unfixable state so that you can't play the game.
Does it mean that developers can't delete your item, but can nerf the stats to make it useless? Wouldn't that be a distinction without a difference?
Does it mean that the developers can't change the stats on your item, but can still make it useless by introducing other, more powerful items? How does that benefit you? All that does is make a mess of play balance if the developers can't nerf the one thing that is too strong.
Does it mean that developers can't delete your item from your inventory, but can still ban you from the game to prevent you from using it? What good does it do you if they can't delete the item but you can't use it anyway? Or does it mean that developers can't ban you? Do you really want to play a game where the game company cannot ever ban anyone, no matter how egregious their behavior?
Or does it mean that developers are obligated to create some outside of the game way for you to sell your goods even after you get banned from the game? What if they don't bother? Or what if they do, but it just doesn't work?
Or even if it's intrinsic to the nature of the game that you can readily sell your loot after being banned from the game, who does that benefit? The main group that would benefit is gold farmers.
Do you really want to play a game where the game company cannot ever ban anyone, no matter how egregious their behavior?
How do you ban people in real life without kill them ?
Well, if we are Lucky, Jeff Bezos will be the first to demonstrate that leaving the planet and never coming back has real potential as a commercial venture ??? Then it's just a matter of buying that special someone a ticket
What does it mean to "own" the loot you acquire in a game, anyway? How is that different from what customarily goes on with computer games now? Does it actually mean anything at all, or is it just empty buzzwords?
Does owning loot in games mean that developers cannot arbitrarily delete the item from your inventory? If it doesn't, then it's hard to imagine what it could mean to "own" your loot.
But if it does mean that, then that's even worse. If something goes horribly wrong, does it mean that developers can't roll back the server? If they can't do that, then the risk of database problems isn't the customary one of losing a day of progress or whatever to a rollback. The risk is being stuck with a database in a permanently broken and unfixable state so that you can't play the game.
Does it mean that developers can't delete your item, but can nerf the stats to make it useless? Wouldn't that be a distinction without a difference?
Does it mean that the developers can't change the stats on your item, but can still make it useless by introducing other, more powerful items? How does that benefit you? All that does is make a mess of play balance if the developers can't nerf the one thing that is too strong.
Does it mean that developers can't delete your item from your inventory, but can still ban you from the game to prevent you from using it? What good does it do you if they can't delete the item but you can't use it anyway? Or does it mean that developers can't ban you? Do you really want to play a game where the game company cannot ever ban anyone, no matter how egregious their behavior?
Or does it mean that developers are obligated to create some outside of the game way for you to sell your goods even after you get banned from the game? What if they don't bother? Or what if they do, but it just doesn't work?
Or even if it's intrinsic to the nature of the game that you can readily sell your loot after being banned from the game, who does that benefit? The main group that would benefit is gold farmers.
Yeah man there's always a maybe and several what if's, but I'm not sure if any of your what if's are worse than the current situation gamers are in.
Things have been pretty stagnent lately, no? The promise and implementation of ownership has been a welcomed development, imho.
See... and this is just the opinion of your humble narrator, I feel like people who do agree with this argument are a bit nutty. But, sitting here and thinking about what to write is really making me feel like I'm on the fence with that statement.
I mean. Think about it. There are a lot of factors you have to apply to this.
This kind of thinking can be really toxic for the gaming community. It leads to people having an easier time taking advantage of newbies on an MMO. Think of all the impressionable kids on Runescape. If they had excess to enough money to buy a "super rare and powerful item" on the game, the first thing they'd do is send the money over and not even research it. How bad would it look if more people used newcomers like that?
Now I do agree with the fact that if you bought the item in-game, with real-world money, Yes, that item is yours.... in-game. You do "own" that item. In-Game. And that's where its bartering should stay. In-game. The moment you take the fantasy out of reality and making it a physical transaction, it's no longer a fantasy.
The argument is honestly capitalism at its finest.
I can also agree with people who sell their accounts, with the characters with those items, for real-world money. I've done it before. Once you hand over the money and the password, all is done.
And it's not like we're talking about permanent items either. If someone sells an item for real-world money, there's nothing that can stop a character/account from being deleted, whether on accident or not. It's not like a physical game like Magic the Gathering or YuGiOh or Warhammer and the like. Something that can't be taken and erased from existence (unless it's stolen and burned by some Clepto Sadist or something). If a card is lost or stolen, you could buy a new one. But you might not ever see that in-game item or character ever again.
Honestly, I think that in-game items should be just that, IN-GAME. They have their own place in the world they were created in with their own lore and journey ahead of them.
Once you break that reality barrier, a whole mess of problems for the gaming community will arise. We'd probably resort back to the "Video Games = Violence" argument once again. Like stepping into a time machine and walking out into some kind of shitty B-Horror movie from the 80s.
"The bones of man. The brittle remnants of cosmic torment that once made him wonder if matter was Lucifer upward groping back to his God. And yet now, he knew better."
😉🔫 - 🖕📿
steam: hatchet130 psn: LordMikeBedlam Battlenet: glasgowgrin#1831
Honestly, I think that in-game items should be just that, IN-GAME. They have their own place in the world they were created in with their own lore and journey ahead of them.
Once you break that reality barrier, a whole mess of problems for the gaming community will arise. We'd probably resort back to the "Video Games = Violence" argument once again. Like stepping into a time machine and walking out into some kind of shitty B-Horror movie from the 80s.
It's worked alright up to now, and you can stick with that preference if you like. It's what I expect I'll do, unless it strikes my fancy with further research.
Regardless, blockchain in gaming is happening, for good or ill. The only choice we have in the matter is personally going along for that ride or not.
I have only just seen this thread. It should come as no surprise that I am totally against gaming that is linked in any way to cryptocurrencies. bcbully said:
That being said, i see i'm super casul at this time. I'm just now watching a guide for a game i've been playing and transacting in with no idea how to make money, or if already am lol. Super casual. What i'm seeing is you can you can interact at your own pace out of pleasure or w/e, kinda like hardcore and casual.
In the same way you don't "have" to spend anything in a cash shop, you don't "have" to take part in P2W in a P2W game. These arguments are so old now that they need to be buried. These games engender a new addictive style of play, "bitcoin addiction play" and players will get swept into that just like they did P2W.
iixviiiix said: How do you ban people in real life without kill them ?
I'll field this question:
Traditionally, outside killing someone there have been several ways to ban people.
Banishment: This can take many forms, but often times this means that someone is not allowed to enter a region or location. The punishment for doing so varies, but the basic idea remains the same, you are not allowed back to that area or location.
A common example of this, that still happens in our modern times, is where students can be expelled, and banished from the School Premise for behavior that they simply will not tolerate. Other forms of this, are things like Restraining orders.
Locking People in a Box: From big boxes to small boxes, the idea of locking people away as a means of non-lethal removal from society has been around for eons. While this often functions like a temp ban, in some cases it has ended up be a perma-ban. And on top of that, people have put in smaller boxes inside these boxes, because they could not get along in the box box.
Common modern examples of this are Prison's and Jails.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
As far as ownership, I have too few real items to be worrying about virtual items. And pretty much, if I don't own a virtual item but had it, I'll check my password security (again).
How much would you pay for a +1 sword in a game? What if that +1 sword had a verified history of being victorious in 20 dragon raids? What's it worth then?
Knowing the story of an item is worth nothing to me. Specifically, knowing the history another player made with an item isn't interesting to me. If I want one, I'll get one if possible. If not, I'll find something else. Pay for it? Forget it.
I have been waiting for someone to say something like this to poise two questions.
If you earned that sword in game just for playing and after playing the game for 5 years, that history on that sword was every raid boss you killed and that sword became to be worth 1.7 million.
Would you object then? Would you sell that sword for RL money?
I totally discount the idea that a virtual asset would be worth 1.7 million dollars. A non-tangible object, especially one that is fixed in a given frame (a specific game), has no material worth outside that framework. Do I want a material gain from that? No. I'd rather let whatever item stay forever on that unused and retired character. Who knows when I'll want to return to that character?
If someone wants to buy my character or its possessions, I'd not sell. I had people want to buy my Mendel character (at the time an EQ1 35 level enchanter). I thought about it, but decided that selling would cheapen my memories of that character, and that selling would deprive the buyer from developing similar memories of their own.
So, the Mendel character, now 92, is stuck in my inventory, ravaged by going off All Access back to f2p. All his prestige gear is useless; he's essentially naked. All his all Rk2 spells are now unusable (and can't be overwritten with a RK1 version); he's an enchanter without spells. His AutoGrant AAs were refunded and misspent (that's on me); he couldn't function in any environment to earn XP. The character is totally crippled, but I can access him if I want to.
There are been NFTs that have sold for millions already. Interesting stand, I wonder if you are the norm on that or if anyone would go for a cash grab. Myself, even if it was an active char I am enjoying. I would sell the sword even if it gimped my character. The RL comfort of my family means more to me then any game I play. I have to admit, if someone gave me that much money to give up MMOing, I probably would as well.
While I find the engineering / implementations of blockchain fascinating, it would be a disaster for current game design.
Personally, I've always found it off-putting when there is a $ value attached to my gameplay achievements. This usually happens due to poor cash-shop implementations. You spend weeks doing quests, collecting items, earning currency. Then you see the very same item/currency listed for $5. If you're on a $10/h salary, you quickly go like "I spent 4 weeks for this legendary sword, when I could have bought it for 30 minutes of work?"
I play for fun, so the value doesn't really apply to me. I spent the 4 weeks having fun and I didn't pay a $15 subscription to "earn it back". It's the journey, not the destination. But just having the option completely devalues the collector/achievement aspects of a game.
Then you have the whole issue of linking socio-economic aspects of real life to online communities. The best thing about gaming (and MMOs especially) is that it is for everyone. It doesn't matter if you are a senior-level manager, have the lowest level job, or are finishing high school. You can take the same sword and kill the same dragon. I've made amazing friends in MMOs, many of whom I've met in real life. And most of whom I wouldn't have otherwise met because our lives are entirely different. My MMO journeys have been really amazing tales of friendship and adventure. The moment you introduce RMT, the whole thing falls apart.
While I find the engineering / implementations of blockchain fascinating, it would be a disaster for current game design.
Personally, I've always found it off-putting when there is a $ value attached to my gameplay achievements. This usually happens due to poor cash-shop implementations. You spend weeks doing quests, collecting items, earning currency. Then you see the very same item/currency listed for $5. If you're on a $10/h salary, you quickly go like "I spent 4 weeks for this legendary sword, when I could have bought it for 30 minutes of work?"
I play for fun, so the value doesn't really apply to me. I spent the 4 weeks having fun and I didn't pay a $15 subscription to "earn it back". It's the journey, not the destination. But just having the option completely devalues the collector/achievement aspects of a game.
Then you have the whole issue of linking socio-economic aspects of real life to online communities. The best thing about gaming (and MMOs especially) is that it is for everyone. It doesn't matter if you are a senior-level manager, have the lowest level job, or are finishing high school. You can take the same sword and kill the same dragon. I've made amazing friends in MMOs, many of whom I've met in real life. And most of whom I wouldn't have otherwise met because our lives are entirely different. My MMO journeys have been really amazing tales of friendship and adventure. The moment you introduce RMT, the whole thing falls apart.
Socio-economic aspects are already linked to MMORPG gaming with f2p models and cash shops, so that's nothing new.
Also, I expect games where blockchain it is heavily integrated as a means of genuine ownership won't follow current game designs as they are now. They would have to be altered in such a way to maintain ongoing functionality with RMT present.
Comments
If, you can buy/sell/trade stuff in a game with Crypto Currencies, like Bitcoin. That would make Crypto a cross game currency, so I could make Money in one game, and move that money to another game, because the Currency is, while not "real" money, it is a 3rd party currency.
brb looking for lazer eyes I can put on hatefull's avatar.
Then what we are looking at is an evolution in MMO's.
Where first they sought to stop RMT's with bans and the like.
Then they sought to bypass RMT by selling the product themselves with a Cash Shop.
This would be embracing RMT in their game, just using Crypto Currency.
That being said, i see i'm super casul at this time. I'm just now watching a guide for a game i've been playing and transacting in with no idea how to make money, or if already am lol. Super casual. What i'm seeing is you can you can interact at your own pace out of pleasure or w/e, kinda like hardcore and casual.
So for me, there are some things that I see where it's like "hmm this could be bad if everything I want gets bought out".
But then on the other hand it's also enticing because every now and then you could have seasonal items you earn in game that could end up selling for a lot when it's off season to people who really want it.
So in some games there's a fine line on what could be "awesome" and what might be really detrimental to some gamers.
Does owning loot in games mean that developers cannot arbitrarily delete the item from your inventory? If it doesn't, then it's hard to imagine what it could mean to "own" your loot.
But if it does mean that, then that's even worse. If something goes horribly wrong, does it mean that developers can't roll back the server? If they can't do that, then the risk of database problems isn't the customary one of losing a day of progress or whatever to a rollback. The risk is being stuck with a database in a permanently broken and unfixable state so that you can't play the game.
Does it mean that developers can't delete your item, but can nerf the stats to make it useless? Wouldn't that be a distinction without a difference?
Does it mean that the developers can't change the stats on your item, but can still make it useless by introducing other, more powerful items? How does that benefit you? All that does is make a mess of play balance if the developers can't nerf the one thing that is too strong.
Does it mean that developers can't delete your item from your inventory, but can still ban you from the game to prevent you from using it? What good does it do you if they can't delete the item but you can't use it anyway? Or does it mean that developers can't ban you? Do you really want to play a game where the game company cannot ever ban anyone, no matter how egregious their behavior?
Or does it mean that developers are obligated to create some outside of the game way for you to sell your goods even after you get banned from the game? What if they don't bother? Or what if they do, but it just doesn't work?
Or even if it's intrinsic to the nature of the game that you can readily sell your loot after being banned from the game, who does that benefit? The main group that would benefit is gold farmers.
Things have been pretty stagnent lately, no? The promise and implementation of ownership has been a welcomed development, imho.
😉🔫 - 🖕📿
steam: hatchet130 psn: LordMikeBedlam Battlenet: glasgowgrin#1831
It's worked alright up to now, and you can stick with that preference if you like. It's what I expect I'll do, unless it strikes my fancy with further research.
Regardless, blockchain in gaming is happening, for good or ill. The only choice we have in the matter is personally going along for that ride or not.
No fate but what we make, so make me a ham sandwich please.
bcbully said: In the same way you don't "have" to spend anything in a cash shop, you don't "have" to take part in P2W in a P2W game. These arguments are so old now that they need to be buried. These games engender a new addictive style of play, "bitcoin addiction play" and players will get swept into that just like they did P2W.
Traditionally, outside killing someone there have been several ways to ban people.
Banishment: This can take many forms, but often times this means that someone is not allowed to enter a region or location. The punishment for doing so varies, but the basic idea remains the same, you are not allowed back to that area or location.
A common example of this, that still happens in our modern times, is where students can be expelled, and banished from the School Premise for behavior that they simply will not tolerate. Other forms of this, are things like Restraining orders.
Locking People in a Box: From big boxes to small boxes, the idea of locking people away as a means of non-lethal removal from society has been around for eons. While this often functions like a temp ban, in some cases it has ended up be a perma-ban. And on top of that, people have put in smaller boxes inside these boxes, because they could not get along in the box box.
Common modern examples of this are Prison's and Jails.
Personally, I've always found it off-putting when there is a $ value attached to my gameplay achievements. This usually happens due to poor cash-shop implementations. You spend weeks doing quests, collecting items, earning currency. Then you see the very same item/currency listed for $5. If you're on a $10/h salary, you quickly go like "I spent 4 weeks for this legendary sword, when I could have bought it for 30 minutes of work?"
I play for fun, so the value doesn't really apply to me. I spent the 4 weeks having fun and I didn't pay a $15 subscription to "earn it back". It's the journey, not the destination. But just having the option completely devalues the collector/achievement aspects of a game.
Then you have the whole issue of linking socio-economic aspects of real life to online communities. The best thing about gaming (and MMOs especially) is that it is for everyone. It doesn't matter if you are a senior-level manager, have the lowest level job, or are finishing high school. You can take the same sword and kill the same dragon. I've made amazing friends in MMOs, many of whom I've met in real life. And most of whom I wouldn't have otherwise met because our lives are entirely different. My MMO journeys have been really amazing tales of friendship and adventure. The moment you introduce RMT, the whole thing falls apart.
Socio-economic aspects are already linked to MMORPG gaming with f2p models and cash shops, so that's nothing new.
Also, I expect games where blockchain it is heavily integrated as a means of genuine ownership won't follow current game designs as they are now. They would have to be altered in such a way to maintain ongoing functionality with RMT present.