It's unfortunate, but this may be the first big Failed LAUNCH of a Kickstarter MMO, and I know Shroud of the Avatar is out there, but it's possible we may see Crowfall actually shut down shortly after launch, and we unfortunately haven't seen that yet with SoTA.
It's a huge disappointment, but it really goes to show you the track record for crowdfunded MMOs.
We have the likes of Star Citizen, in an infinite Early Access/money-sucking phase. We have Shroud of the Avatar, Crowfall which suck post-launch.
Then, we have the one success story which is Albion.
You have absolute scams like Chronicles of Elyria which I invested in, unfortunately...
Ashes of Creation seems to be a bright spot but it still isn't out and I have serious doubts about it coming out...
Lastly, there's others in the works for many years that I also seriously doubt will come out, like Pantheon, Pathfinder, Camelot Unchained, and each of those games looks nothing like was promised and is destined to fail.
It's unfortunate, but this may be the first big Failed LAUNCH of a Kickstarter MMO, and I know Shroud of the Avatar is out there, but it's possible we may see Crowfall actually shut down shortly after launch, and we unfortunately haven't seen that yet with SoTA.
It's a huge disappointment, but it really goes to show you the track record for crowdfunded MMOs.
We have the likes of Star Citizen, in an infinite Early Access/money-sucking phase. We have Shroud of the Avatar, Crowfall which suck post-launch.
Then, we have the one success story which is Albion.
You have absolute scams like Chronicles of Elyria which I invested in, unfortunately...
Ashes of Creation seems to be a bright spot but it still isn't out and I have serious doubts about it coming out...
Lastly, there's others in the works for many years that I also seriously doubt will come out, like Pantheon, Pathfinder, Camelot Unchained, and each of those games looks nothing like was promised and is destined to fail.
Pathfinder just announced they were closing down...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Ungood said: So.. basically what you are saying.. is people like you are the problem with the game at this point.
This.. I cannot disagree with.
Again, you try and redirect. Too funny. or sad.
Waiting to hear what beta version was good, how long ago that was, and why it was that you tried to dismiss the concerns raised about the late beta product and it's lack of appeal.
Just the truth by your own words.
You made it clear that you, and people like you, who are not putting any new money into the game are causing it's current demise.
Again.. I cannot disagree with that.
Waiting to hear what beta version was good, how long ago that was, and why it was that you tried to dismiss the concerns raised about the late beta product and it's lack of appeal.
Keep waiting, our only exchange is about the fact that you have come out and admitted that you, and players like you, are the cause of the current problems with Crowfall and Artcraft.
That's enough for me.
Chirp.
You aren't fooling nor misdirecting a single person. Game was BAD in beta. This was called out. YOU shouted that all was well and people were just on a break. Game launched, nobody liked it (not even you). Now they have layoffs.
Maybe next time instead of being a "Yaysayer" you will learn. We will see.
And yet,. it's dying because of people like you.
And I will admit, I overlooked dead weight like yourself, that have 3 years of sub, which makes sense really, I mean at this point, you are not profitable to them, at all, on any level, as such, trying to appease people like you that are not income is a foolish and wasteful move, and yet that seems what they are trying to do. Bold Move, lets see if it pays off.
But people like you do skew the numbers, which makes me wonder of their population, how many are like you, IE: Not profitable.
I wager a lot more than they would like, and that is something I should have thought about, but, it simply did not occur to me how many might have paid upfront for subs. Apparently.. too many. LOL.
As I said at this point, they should call the game done, and move on to something else, like that BR you whined about, and try to bring in some fresh faces and real money.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Ungood said: So.. basically what you are saying.. is people like you are the problem with the game at this point.
This.. I cannot disagree with.
Again, you try and redirect. Too funny. or sad.
Waiting to hear what beta version was good, how long ago that was, and why it was that you tried to dismiss the concerns raised about the late beta product and it's lack of appeal.
Just the truth by your own words.
You made it clear that you, and people like you, who are not putting any new money into the game are causing it's current demise.
Again.. I cannot disagree with that.
Waiting to hear what beta version was good, how long ago that was, and why it was that you tried to dismiss the concerns raised about the late beta product and it's lack of appeal.
Keep waiting, our only exchange is about the fact that you have come out and admitted that you, and players like you, are the cause of the current problems with Crowfall and Artcraft.
That's enough for me.
Chirp.
You aren't fooling nor misdirecting a single person. Game was BAD in beta. This was called out. YOU shouted that all was well and people were just on a break. Game launched, nobody liked it (not even you). Now they have layoffs.
Maybe next time instead of being a "Yaysayer" you will learn. We will see.
And yet,. it's dying because of people like you.
And I will admit, I overlooked dead weight like yourself, that have 3 years of sub, which makes sense really, I mean at this point, you are not profitable to them, at all, on any level, as such, trying to appease people like you that are not income is a foolish and wasteful move, and yet that seems what they are trying to do. Bold Move, lets see if it pays off.
But people like you do skew the numbers, which makes me wonder of their population, how many are like you, IE: Not profitable.
I wager a lot more than they would like, and that is something I should have thought about, but, it simply did not occur to me how many might have paid upfront for subs. Apparently.. too many. LOL.
As I said at this point, they should call the game done, and move on to something else, like that BR you whined about, and try to bring in some fresh faces and real money.
Not fooling anyone.
You said the game was ruined by "people like me" but it was bad at launch. It failed at launch. YOU tried to deflect criticism of how the game was in late beta by saying all was well and people were just taking a break. YOU said those things. YOU said game was good in beta. So again, WHEN? What beta version? What launched WAS the same as the beta version you defended.
You CAN'T say when in beta it was good nor explain why YOU said all was well and not to worry when we criticized the state of the game coming to launch. And it's obvious to all. Caught again.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Ungood said: So.. basically what you are saying.. is people like you are the problem with the game at this point.
This.. I cannot disagree with.
Again, you try and redirect. Too funny. or sad.
Waiting to hear what beta version was good, how long ago that was, and why it was that you tried to dismiss the concerns raised about the late beta product and it's lack of appeal.
Just the truth by your own words.
You made it clear that you, and people like you, who are not putting any new money into the game are causing it's current demise.
Again.. I cannot disagree with that.
Waiting to hear what beta version was good, how long ago that was, and why it was that you tried to dismiss the concerns raised about the late beta product and it's lack of appeal.
Keep waiting, our only exchange is about the fact that you have come out and admitted that you, and players like you, are the cause of the current problems with Crowfall and Artcraft.
That's enough for me.
Chirp.
You aren't fooling nor misdirecting a single person. Game was BAD in beta. This was called out. YOU shouted that all was well and people were just on a break. Game launched, nobody liked it (not even you). Now they have layoffs.
Maybe next time instead of being a "Yaysayer" you will learn. We will see.
And yet,. it's dying because of people like you.
And I will admit, I overlooked dead weight like yourself, that have 3 years of sub, which makes sense really, I mean at this point, you are not profitable to them, at all, on any level, as such, trying to appease people like you that are not income is a foolish and wasteful move, and yet that seems what they are trying to do. Bold Move, lets see if it pays off.
But people like you do skew the numbers, which makes me wonder of their population, how many are like you, IE: Not profitable.
I wager a lot more than they would like, and that is something I should have thought about, but, it simply did not occur to me how many might have paid upfront for subs. Apparently.. too many. LOL.
As I said at this point, they should call the game done, and move on to something else, like that BR you whined about, and try to bring in some fresh faces and real money.
Not fooling anyone.
You said the game was ruined by "people like me" but it was bad at launch.
Correction.. YOU said you were the problem.. and I just agreed with you.
I know.. being right sometimes Slap can disorient you.. but I get the vibe you're right here, you are the problem.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I feel a little bad for the studio because I think they believe in the game, I don't think it was ever just a cash grab.
But it isn't an amazing game. I played for a while maybe a year ago and never went back. I'm one of the many people that didn't play at launch despite having an account.
Wild that anyone would say that makes people like me a problem.....the onus is on the studio to deliver a fun game with the funding I helped provide. It isn't on us to keep providing funds until they eventually, if ever, make a fun game.
Have watched this game through most of development with some interest. However, the strong emphasis on PvP was something I was not interested in at all. I really think that most that have stayed away from this game have done so for a lot of reasons and disinterest in PvP is surely one of them.
It was always designed to be a pvp mmo, the issue is that it has failed to attract the audience it was supposedly targeting.
Have watched this game through most of development with some interest. However, the strong emphasis on PvP was something I was not interested in at all. I really think that most that have stayed away from this game have done so for a lot of reasons and disinterest in PvP is surely one of them.
Not at all. The people complaining the most are the people who wanted the PvP game we were promised.
Many people backed the kickstarter and follwed the game because the "throne war" PvP game is exactly what people wanted. What we got was a buggy, incomplete, boring mess. It seems that most of the the thought and planning in Crowfall went into how they were going to monetize it, as the game is overflowing with ways to take your money.
Too bad they didn't spend some of that energy on making a good game.
Have watched this game through most of development with some interest. However, the strong emphasis on PvP was something I was not interested in at all. I really think that most that have stayed away from this game have done so for a lot of reasons and disinterest in PvP is surely one of them.
It was always designed to be a pvp mmo, the issue is that it has failed to attract the audience it was supposedly targeting.
They did in fact attract the right group of people, but they also put the wagon before the horse as far as money went, and they allowed their core demographic to buy ahead for years, so they already got all their money upfront.
Thus when they launched, a portion of their player base that they may have needed to be spending money at this time already bought years worth of Subs, and they were now not making any more money from them, and this in a fascial decline, This is a point that @Slapshot brought up.
Like the games that offered lifetime subs, and suddenly could not figure out why after launch they were not making income.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Have watched this game through most of development with some interest. However, the strong emphasis on PvP was something I was not interested in at all. I really think that most that have stayed away from this game have done so for a lot of reasons and disinterest in PvP is surely one of them.
For me it was the other way around: I would have played Crowfall precisely because it is PvP focused.... but only if the social experience would have been a better one and the world had more to offer.
Have watched this game through most of development with some interest. However, the strong emphasis on PvP was something I was not interested in at all. I really think that most that have stayed away from this game have done so for a lot of reasons and disinterest in PvP is surely one of them.
It was always designed to be a pvp mmo, the issue is that it has failed to attract the audience it was supposedly targeting.
They did in fact attract the right group of people, but they also put the wagon before the horse as far as money went, and they allowed their core demographic to buy ahead for years, so they already got all their money upfront.
Thus when they launched, a portion of their player base that they may have needed to be spending money at this time already bought years worth of Subs, and they were now not making any more money from them, and this in a fascial decline, This is a point that @Slapshot brought up.
Like the games that offered lifetime subs, and suddenly could not figure out why after launch they were not making income.
And as Slapshot also brought up- They needed to attract NEW players to the game when it launched. You know, the same thread where you continued to make dismissive comments like:
"Right now, all you have is a bunch of arm chair developers and investors pulling stuff out of their asses and trying to look smart while they make up some kind of situation."
You even made half a dozen posts trying to say that the reason they cut off the bot from tracking population and account sales was because the extra pings were causing lag... ROFL (like 100 pings every 20 minutes were bringing Amazon to it's knees)
And maybe now you realize that when they couldn't GIVE AWAY BETA KEYS it was a bad sign for bringing in new players at launch. When others were saying the game needed changes before launch, you were saying things like:
"As someone that has been following this game for a while, I am glad it is finally launching."
"It's fast, it's fun, it provides what it says it will provide, and that is an engaging Realms vs Realms combat style game, where you can feel like your efforts matter. You can play in small groups, you can go run with zergs, you can run tag teams harvesting materials for your guild, in high risk regions to ensure that your team has the best gear from the start."
You made it a point to try and crap on anyone who suggested the game was NOT in a fun state nor ready for launch (even though you apparently had not PLAYED THE BETA FOR A VERY LONG TIME)
Anyhow, good to see you come around and realize that there was a huge issue 2 months ago. The time to communicate that to ArtCraft was of course.. BEFORE LAUNCH.. so they could delay it and make the tweaks. Instead, the Ivory Tower did what it always does, and whispered sweet nothings in the dev's ears...
Nothing that changed after launched caused this... it is 100% reflective of the LAUNCHED state of the game.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Backed it, wanted to play what they promised to deliver, tried the Beta and was disappointed, and then tried it at launch and was shocked at how bad of a game it is. Then add releasing an mmo at the worst possible time in years, what a waste.
Haxus Council Member 21 year MMO veteran PvP Raid Leader Lover of The Witcher & CD Projekt Red
It seems that most of the the thought and planning in Crowfall went into how they were going to monetize it, as the game is overflowing with ways to take your money.
They did in fact attract the right group of people, but they also put the wagon before the horse as far as money went, and they allowed their core demographic to buy ahead for years, so they already got all their money upfront.
Thus when they launched, a portion of their player base that they may have needed to be spending money at this time already bought years worth of Subs, and they were now not making any more money from them, and this in a fascial decline
Something doesn't add up. So what is it now? Did they put the gameplay behind their monetization ideas, or did they rashly choose the wrong business model?
Pretty obvious this game was going to fail from the start. Another full loot PVP MMO that costs money? When you make a Hardcore PVP game you need to look at the audience. One thing Hardcore PVP'ers like more than all the hardcore PVP rulesets is targets/prey. If you cant bring in the prey, then the hunters wont come either. Hunters don't want to be the prey to other hunters.
As I have said before, all these Hardcore PVP'ers that have been complaining about games like New World trying to appeal to PVE'ers. Prepare to be surprised when you see them playing New World. Because New World was smart enough to realize hardcore PVP was a fail. They will have the most newbie targets/sheep at launch then any other game in the last decade. No way real hunter/wolves are going to miss that party.
When you make a Hardcore PVP game you need to look at the audience. One thing Hardcore PVP'ers like more than all the hardcore PVP rulesets is targets/prey. If you cant bring in the prey, then the hunters wont come either. Hunters don't want to be the prey to other hunters.
PvP has many facets. Hunters vs. prey are only one of them. Others would be, for example, sieges, zerg battles, "dungeon wars", etc.
I don't think people really understand the tone-deaf scam going on here.
This game should be F2P, not even B2P, with a cosmetic only cash shop.
The fact they have a box price, a sub, cash shop with tons of shit to purchase, a collector's edition for fucking $150 and now they are putting 70$ bundles that include the game..1 month VIP and a mount?
LOL so you think the game should be completely free? Excuse the devs if they want to actually make some money off their product/time.
I suppose the other way to go would be to offer the product free to play, then have a bunch of Pay to win items that all the whales can buy to beat down all the freebie players that play. That's pretty much the only way these Full Loot PVP games can even survive, they need to appeal to all the customers in the world that cant afford to pay to play. This way the PVP'ers with the most money can slaughter them.
Pretty competitive market for that system. I wont deny this is likely the only way this game can claw back some money for the game they made.
Pretty obvious this game was going to fail from the start. Another full loot PVP MMO that costs money? When you make a Hardcore PVP game you need to look at the audience. One thing Hardcore PVP'ers like more than all the hardcore PVP rulesets is targets/prey. If you cant bring in the prey, then the hunters wont come either. Hunters don't want to be the prey to other hunters.
As I have said before, all these Hardcore PVP'ers that have been complaining about games like New World trying to appeal to PVE'ers. Prepare to be surprised when you see them playing New World. Because New World was smart enough to realize hardcore PVP was a fail. They will have the most newbie targets/sheep at launch then any other game in the last decade. No way real hunter/wolves are going to miss that party.
There is no doubt that PvE is more popular and brings more people. That said, I do not think PvP was the main reason this failed so far. It was implementation.
It launched without the promised 3 way RvRvR factions campaign and the 5-12 faction campaigns. This meant that new players had nowhere to go after finishing the tutorial except into the Dregs. They later launched the 3 way FvFvF campaigns but they were a disaster
The zones were too small. It literally took 2-3 minutes to cross from one end to another in some zones. This meant that as soon as you started to attack anything, and the message went out zone-wide, every zerg in the zone would come instantly to attack you. This is really key because it magnified the effect of the next point.
Along with the above, the guilds and alliances were too big. At launch I think each zone had a 200 player cap which they have been able to get up to 250 players. They allowed Guilds to have 500 members and allowed those guilds to Ally other guilds the same size. Simply looking at math tells you that having one alliance with 2000 people was not going to end well if only 250 total players can fit in a zone. Small maps could work, large guilds and alliances could work. Just not together.
I thought Crafting and Harvesting were really cool. They required massive grinding though. And much of that grinding was behind RNG drops. It could take one person 20 minutes and another 2 weeks to get the same increase. They were also, very seriously, cross-discipline efforts. Not solo-friendly at all. Again, I kind of dug that and got multiple crafting and harvesting skills to purple but it definitely turned a lot of people off and that had nothing to do with it being a PvP game. A crafter could not just sit and craft. They would have to go and harvest ( an insane amount) and then they would have to somehow get parts and pieces from other crafting disciplines (see next issue)
The Eternal Kingdoms were supposed to be a huge part of the game. It's what they sold the $10,000 Castles for. Development of these was pretty much non-existent for most of the beta and what launched was a pile of dog poo. It launched with no Auction house or any way to search EKs other than logging in to each and physically walking through the world to look in each house, fort, keep to see if there were vendors and what those vendors had.
There are a lot more related to the general game loops just not being fun and needing work... so again I agree that PvP definitely limits the potential customer base, but this one had plenty of other issues.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
When you make a Hardcore PVP game you need to look at the audience. One thing Hardcore PVP'ers like more than all the hardcore PVP rulesets is targets/prey. If you cant bring in the prey, then the hunters wont come either. Hunters don't want to be the prey to other hunters.
PvP has many facets. Hunters vs. prey are only one of them. Others would be, for example, sieges, zerg battles, "dungeon wars", etc.
Not really, it all comes down the hunters/prey. People don't even want to lose 50% of the time let alone 9 of 10 times. If someone is winning 9 out of 10 then someone else is losing 9 of 10. When the hunters become to hunted losing 9 of 10 it no longer becomes fun and they quit. That makes the winning side even more lopsided. Pretty soon, when there is no prey, even the winning hunters become bored.
This is why these games need PVE'ers, that don't care about losing 9/10 times in PVP. Because they can win doing other activities. As long as their occasional PVP loss doesn't outweigh all fun they have in PVE many will stick around.
Pretty obvious this game was going to fail from the start. Another full loot PVP MMO that costs money? When you make a Hardcore PVP game you need to look at the audience. One thing Hardcore PVP'ers like more than all the hardcore PVP rulesets is targets/prey. If you cant bring in the prey, then the hunters wont come either. Hunters don't want to be the prey to other hunters.
As I have said before, all these Hardcore PVP'ers that have been complaining about games like New World trying to appeal to PVE'ers. Prepare to be surprised when you see them playing New World. Because New World was smart enough to realize hardcore PVP was a fail. They will have the most newbie targets/sheep at launch then any other game in the last decade. No way real hunter/wolves are going to miss that party.
There is no doubt that PvE is more popular and brings more people. That said, I do not think PvP was the main reason this failed so far. It was implementation.
It launched without the promised 3 way RvRvR factions campaign and the 5-12 faction campaigns. This meant that new players had nowhere to go after finishing the tutorial except into the Dregs. They later launched the 3 way FvFvF campaigns but they were a disaster
The zones were too small. It literally took 2-3 minutes to cross from one end to another in some zones. This meant that as soon as you started to attack anything, and the message went out zone-wide, every zerg in the zone would come instantly to attack you. This is really key because it magnified the effect of the next point.
Along with the above, the guilds and alliances were too big. At launch I think each zone had a 200 player cap which they have been able to get up to 250 players. They allowed Guilds to have 500 members and allowed those guilds to Ally other guilds the same size. Simply looking at math tells you that having one alliance with 2000 people was not going to end well if only 250 total players can fit in a zone. Small maps could work, large guilds and alliances could work. Just not together.
I thought Crafting and Harvesting were really cool. They required massive grinding though. And much of that grinding was behind RNG drops. It could take one person 20 minutes and another 2 weeks to get the same increase. They were also, very seriously, cross-discipline efforts. Not solo-friendly at all. Again, I kind of dug that and got multiple crafting and harvesting skills to purple but it definitely turned a lot of people off and that had nothing to do with it being a PvP game. A crafter could not just sit and craft. They would have to go and harvest ( an insane amount) and then they would have to somehow get parts and pieces from other crafting disciplines (see next issue)
The Eternal Kingdoms were supposed to be a huge part of the game. It's what they sold the $10,000 Castles for. Development of these was pretty much non-existent for most of the beta and what launched was a pile of dog poo. It launched with no Auction house or any way to search EKs other than logging in to each and physically walking through the world to look in each house, fort, keep to see if there were vendors and what those vendors had.
There are a lot more related to the general game loops just not being fun and needing work... so again I agree that PvP definitely limits the potential customer base, but this one had plenty of other issues.
Yeah I can see how some of these made it worse.
RvRvR - Warhammer had RvRvR but without the PVE, it was a massive fail.
Small Zones - I remember in DAOC it had Thidranki which was small zone and also one of the most popular PVP spots.
Zerg Guilds - Yeah I got nothing for that, absolutely stupid to have 500 man guilds in a game with mostly small group battles. If it had Realm vs Realm maybe it would haven't been such an issue, no clue what they were thinking with this really.
Grind - Well I didn't play Crowfall so I cant say if the grind is worse or not than other PVP games, but I have played a bunch of PVP games with massive grind so I doubt this is the issue.
Cant really speak to your other points.
You think Mortal Online 2 is going to be much different result than this game?
These OW full loot FFA PVP always going to have one common denominator that leads to failure. Lack of PVE players as targets, this above all other reasons is why they end up failing.
Comments
It's a huge disappointment, but it really goes to show you the track record for crowdfunded MMOs.
We have the likes of Star Citizen, in an infinite Early Access/money-sucking phase. We have Shroud of the Avatar, Crowfall which suck post-launch.
Then, we have the one success story which is Albion.
You have absolute scams like Chronicles of Elyria which I invested in, unfortunately...
Ashes of Creation seems to be a bright spot but it still isn't out and I have serious doubts about it coming out...
Lastly, there's others in the works for many years that I also seriously doubt will come out, like Pantheon, Pathfinder, Camelot Unchained, and each of those games looks nothing like was promised and is destined to fail.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
And I will admit, I overlooked dead weight like yourself, that have 3 years of sub, which makes sense really, I mean at this point, you are not profitable to them, at all, on any level, as such, trying to appease people like you that are not income is a foolish and wasteful move, and yet that seems what they are trying to do. Bold Move, lets see if it pays off.
But people like you do skew the numbers, which makes me wonder of their population, how many are like you, IE: Not profitable.
I wager a lot more than they would like, and that is something I should have thought about, but, it simply did not occur to me how many might have paid upfront for subs. Apparently.. too many. LOL.
As I said at this point, they should call the game done, and move on to something else, like that BR you whined about, and try to bring in some fresh faces and real money.
You said the game was ruined by "people like me" but it was bad at launch. It failed at launch. YOU tried to deflect criticism of how the game was in late beta by saying all was well and people were just taking a break. YOU said those things. YOU said game was good in beta. So again, WHEN? What beta version? What launched WAS the same as the beta version you defended.
You CAN'T say when in beta it was good nor explain why YOU said all was well and not to worry when we criticized the state of the game coming to launch. And it's obvious to all. Caught again.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I know.. being right sometimes Slap can disorient you.. but I get the vibe you're right here, you are the problem.
But it isn't an amazing game. I played for a while maybe a year ago and never went back. I'm one of the many people that didn't play at launch despite having an account.
Wild that anyone would say that makes people like me a problem.....the onus is on the studio to deliver a fun game with the funding I helped provide. It isn't on us to keep providing funds until they eventually, if ever, make a fun game.
Not at all. The people complaining the most are the people who wanted the PvP game we were promised.
Many people backed the kickstarter and follwed the game because the "throne war" PvP game is exactly what people wanted. What we got was a buggy, incomplete, boring mess. It seems that most of the the thought and planning in Crowfall went into how they were going to monetize it, as the game is overflowing with ways to take your money.
Too bad they didn't spend some of that energy on making a good game.
They did in fact attract the right group of people, but they also put the wagon before the horse as far as money went, and they allowed their core demographic to buy ahead for years, so they already got all their money upfront.
Thus when they launched, a portion of their player base that they may have needed to be spending money at this time already bought years worth of Subs, and they were now not making any more money from them, and this in a fascial decline, This is a point that @Slapshot brought up.
Like the games that offered lifetime subs, and suddenly could not figure out why after launch they were not making income.
For me it was the other way around: I would have played Crowfall precisely because it is PvP focused.... but only if the social experience would have been a better one and the world had more to offer.
"Right now, all you have is a bunch of arm chair developers and investors pulling stuff out of their asses and trying to look smart while they make up some kind of situation."
You even made half a dozen posts trying to say that the reason they cut off the bot from tracking population and account sales was because the extra pings were causing lag... ROFL (like 100 pings every 20 minutes were bringing Amazon to it's knees)
And maybe now you realize that when they couldn't GIVE AWAY BETA KEYS it was a bad sign for bringing in new players at launch. When others were saying the game needed changes before launch, you were saying things like:
"As someone that has been following this game for a while, I am glad it is finally launching."
"It's fast, it's fun, it provides what it says it will provide, and that is an engaging Realms vs Realms combat style game, where you can feel like your efforts matter. You can play in small groups, you can go run with zergs, you can run tag teams harvesting materials for your guild, in high risk regions to ensure that your team has the best gear from the start."
You made it a point to try and crap on anyone who suggested the game was NOT in a fun state nor ready for launch (even though you apparently had not PLAYED THE BETA FOR A VERY LONG TIME)
Anyhow, good to see you come around and realize that there was a huge issue 2 months ago. The time to communicate that to ArtCraft was of course.. BEFORE LAUNCH.. so they could delay it and make the tweaks. Instead, the Ivory Tower did what it always does, and whispered sweet nothings in the dev's ears...
Nothing that changed after launched caused this... it is 100% reflective of the LAUNCHED state of the game.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
21 year MMO veteran
PvP Raid Leader
Lover of The Witcher & CD Projekt Red
As I have said before, all these Hardcore PVP'ers that have been complaining about games like New World trying to appeal to PVE'ers. Prepare to be surprised when you see them playing New World. Because New World was smart enough to realize hardcore PVP was a fail. They will have the most newbie targets/sheep at launch then any other game in the last decade. No way real hunter/wolves are going to miss that party.
PvP has many facets. Hunters vs. prey are only one of them. Others would be, for example, sieges, zerg battles, "dungeon wars", etc.
LOL so you think the game should be completely free? Excuse the devs if they want to actually make some money off their product/time.
I suppose the other way to go would be to offer the product free to play, then have a bunch of Pay to win items that all the whales can buy to beat down all the freebie players that play. That's pretty much the only way these Full Loot PVP games can even survive, they need to appeal to all the customers in the world that cant afford to pay to play. This way the PVP'ers with the most money can slaughter them.
Pretty competitive market for that system. I wont deny this is likely the only way this game can claw back some money for the game they made.
- The Eternal Kingdoms were supposed to be a huge part of the game. It's what they sold the $10,000 Castles for. Development of these was pretty much non-existent for most of the beta and what launched was a pile of dog poo. It launched with no Auction house or any way to search EKs other than logging in to each and physically walking through the world to look in each house, fort, keep to see if there were vendors and what those vendors had.
There are a lot more related to the general game loops just not being fun and needing work... so again I agree that PvP definitely limits the potential customer base, but this one had plenty of other issues.All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
This is why these games need PVE'ers, that don't care about losing 9/10 times in PVP. Because they can win doing other activities. As long as their occasional PVP loss doesn't outweigh all fun they have in PVE many will stick around.
Yeah I can see how some of these made it worse.
RvRvR - Warhammer had RvRvR but without the PVE, it was a massive fail.
Small Zones - I remember in DAOC it had Thidranki which was small zone and also one of the most popular PVP spots.
Zerg Guilds - Yeah I got nothing for that, absolutely stupid to have 500 man guilds in a game with mostly small group battles. If it had Realm vs Realm maybe it would haven't been such an issue, no clue what they were thinking with this really.
Grind - Well I didn't play Crowfall so I cant say if the grind is worse or not than other PVP games, but I have played a bunch of PVP games with massive grind so I doubt this is the issue.
Cant really speak to your other points.
You think Mortal Online 2 is going to be much different result than this game?
These OW full loot FFA PVP always going to have one common denominator that leads to failure. Lack of PVE players as targets, this above all other reasons is why they end up failing.