Because it's all about NFT and blockchain currency. You actually don't get how it's all related?
There is nothing saying an NFT can't be a music media file. It most certainly can be one as much as it can be graphic format file. How can you promote NFT and not understand this?
You're condescending dismissal of others not withstanding, maybe you don't know as much about what you're promoting as you think.
You talk about others scare mongering but you're the only one who brought up death and dying. You're the only one saying that. A lot of people dump thousands of dollars into cash shop, loot crates, and gacha games and that aggressive predatory monetization has polluted a leisure hobby. The valid concern here is that an entertainment pastime will turn into yet another job, among other concerns.
Let me ask you seeing as you're so passionate about this... Have you played a single minute of any crypto/p2e/nft game? If you did what were the differences you noticed between them vs traditional Gaas games?
"A lot of people dump thousands of dollars into cash shop, loot crates,
and gacha games and that aggressive predatory monetization has polluted a
leisure hobby"
Your statement above is 100% correct and exactly why we're here today discussing crypto/nft/p2e games... These games were made as a result of what you mentioned above. They were made by indie small teams that noticed everything wrong with current gaming and created products to cater to the needs of people longing for certain things.
One of the most popular games right now was made by a few people who are reaping all the well deserved benefits and 100% free from any gaming industry control.. It's a movement that shouldn't be attacked but supported because it's a creative gamer/developer movement and IMO the best chance we've ever had to get games that are made to be fun rather than designed for profit.
For those who do not understand how nft/crypto/p2e are designed to be fun rather than all 4 profit is that these games require people. To have people the developers must make the games enjoyable almost to the point where you don't ever want to stop playing. They essentially for their own benefit MUST make the game as enjoyable as possible.
"The valid concern here is that an entertainment pastime will turn into yet another job, among other concerns."
I take it you don't play mobile games? In Summoner's war to get all the rewards of certain events you must do hundreds of runs/dungeons. Sometimes they have multiple events at the same time. At that time they also offer special "deals" for packs with extremely good rewards that usually cost $100. People spend many hours DAILY completing missions for those events because there's a limit to how many you can complete every 24 hours. THAT is work yet people do it and they buy those $100 packs and get $0.00 in return for it. Hundreds/thousands of hours of grind. I can continue on to other mobile games but it's boring and you don't want to hear it and I don't want to write about it lol.
P2E games PAY you for all that time and if you decide to spend money on their games are able to earn even more money back depending on certain circumstances/game.
If we're going to play pretend ownership isn't it better to go with the option where the seller acknowledges our purchase and lets us re-sell vs having to sign a ToS that forfeits the rights to what we just "bought" + all our future "purchases"?
Wait, what do you think you actually own? You own the NFT which is an immutable link to a hash of a file (image, media, text, etc). You own that particular file hash and can then sell or trade it.
Let's use a graphic image as an example. You do not own the copyright. You don't own the right to distribute or use that image any way you see fit. You own the image yourself and can view it or use it personally but you may not be licensed to use in public fora or anywhere were the copyright would be violated. You may not copy or distribute it or necessarily display it for mass consumption.
There's small part that seems to be left out of all those "right click save" videos... In order to save space on chain, most NFTs put the least amount of data as possible, thats not to say data is not stored in varying degrees. It's a matter efficiency and space.
That part that's convieniatly left out is the link (data contained in all nfts) points to a file stored in an immutible decentralized storage system that is secured by the nft owners private key.
people who "play to have fun" are now a category not what games are about, oke then
while gaming always drove the grey market, at the same time the motivation to play such games comes out of people who have fun playing them, mixing too much of a "investment nature" to it and I struggle to find an healthy playerbase if you have too much of people who aren't there for "having fun".
This ends up reminding me of Entropia Universe where the playerbase was about the numbers and profitability almost nobody would do something for "fun" it was always about gain prospects and chances.
This smells like a bubble that will burst, if they focus in who's paying and not who's playing the value they have in their hands is on their imagination.
tzervo said: For some people this actually is the fun. You cannot dismiss that. I see it in EVE (and sometimes myself). It's not the mechanics or the momentary surge, but the planning and strategy, which always reflects in numbers.
See another example in Prosperous Universe. Niche game but people play it for that aspect alone, without the real life gains.
That's a more unique thing, because then we talk PvP is also very organized but that's because of the fun factor of "winning", but those type of people are a minority and here we talk this push to bring a mentality like that to mainstream, when you have X or Y ways of playing where you can either earn cash and such then that to me sticks on your head when you want to play your way for fun, it makes you feel out of place, which is how Entropia felt to the vast majority of who tried to play it. It lets you play it sure, but makes you feel like the puppet peasant that's earning the big boys their cash.
Let me ask you seeing as you're so passionate about this... Have you played a single minute of any crypto/p2e/nft game? If you did what were the differences you noticed between them vs traditional Gaas games?
My guess is that almost everyone here has played one game just like this minus the new crypto lingo trappings. The game? Diablo 3 when it first launched with the Real Money Auction House.
You and others seem to think this is all brand new, never done before when in fact this pay to win shit with players doing both the buying and the selling of the P2W stuff is very old. I guess you're seduced by the buzz words like "NFT" and whatever the game specific crypto currency is named.
And Diablo 3 when it had the RMAH was a colossal flop and a piece of shit precisely because of the RMAH. But hey, some dweebs loved it because they could make a couple of bucks. Whoopty frigging doo.
To make the RMAH work what Blizzard did was they nerfed the shit out of drop rates, in a looter ARPG of all bloody games to do it in.
In order to gear up in any amount of time that felt reasonable by looter ARPG standards you had to buy items because the drop rates were that bad. And it's also why players quit playing the game to the point that Blizz did away with the RMAH, brought up the drop rates to reasonable standards and released a very good expansion, Reaper of Souls, to try to bring everyone back.
And it worked. Players came back, enjoyed the new version of the game and have played for years.
Just because you think this sort of stuff hasn't been done before doesn't make it so.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Gamers will not be able to afford to play games if this is the future of gaming.
The pre alpha sales on the sand box were something like 12,000$ for a piece of land.
Chumbi Valley, another NFT blockchain game I follow does not even have actual game play but people are buying these Chumbi nfts for thousands of dollars.
If you look at game NFT assets on OpenSea something as simple as an 8 bit holiday sparkler is going for 240$
This is the future of disposable income of the wealthy it is not the future of gaming.
The Stranger: It's what people know about themselves inside that makes 'em afraid.
Meh... Second Life and Entropia have been doing this for years... With little to no good effect. This is just investor boner cutting of the blood flow to the brain of these numpties.
Gamers will not be able to afford to play games if this is the future of gaming.
The pre alpha sales on the sand box were something like 12,000$ for a piece of land.
Chumbi Valley, another NFT blockchain game I follow does not even have actual game play but people are buying these Chumbi nfts for thousands of dollars.
If you look at game NFT assets on OpenSea something as simple as an 8 bit holiday sparkler is going for 240$
This is the future of disposable income of the wealthy it is not the future of gaming.
The rush isn't sustainable and that's why I feel like SE is saying that it's going to take time for prices to correct themselves.
A lot of early adopters may not come out as ahead as they'd hoped once the market corrects and at that point it will become more affordable for most gamers.
And by affordable I mean around 1.00 per transaction. In order for it to happen the market needs to hit saturation and we're really far from that.
A great game with NFTs that earn ETH, that's really really hard to put a price on.
If you can earn .025 ETH a day, forever.. 1k for that NFT is an absolute steal. 5k is not even a reach. I don't see the demand for NFTs like this changing anytime soon.
SE have been a great company for a long time. Why are they throwing away decades of good reputation to cash in on this rubbish? Did he forget that he is a gaming company?
This shit is also the exact fucking opposite of "play to earn". None of these games as far as I can see are going to pay you for playing. Not one. They are all based on selling your digital shit to the next mug in line. That is not "earning money", that is just selling your stuff. And we can do that already.
When a gaming studio figures out a way to genuinely pay gamers to play their game, then the industry will be revolutionised. Until then, this NFT bollocks will remain a shakey house of cards that only works as long as more players are entering the game than leaving.
Last time I checked, that basically never happens. Apart from a small number of anomalies, all games decline over time. Which means that whatever shit I paid money for on day 1 is going to be worth a lot less on day 1000 because there will be no demand left.
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman
SE have been a great company for a long time. Why are they throwing away decades of good reputation to cash in on this rubbish? Did he forget that he is a gaming company?
This shit is also the exact fucking opposite of "play to earn". None of these games as far as I can see are going to pay you for playing. Not one. They are all based on selling your digital shit to the next mug in line. That is not "earning money", that is just selling your stuff. And we can do that already.
When a gaming studio figures out a way to genuinely pay gamers to play their game, then the industry will be revolutionised. Until then, this NFT bollocks will remain a shakey house of cards that only works as long as more players are entering the game than leaving.
Last time I checked, that basically never happens. Apart from a small number of anomalies, all games decline over time. Which means that whatever shit I paid money for on day 1 is going to be worth a lot less on day 1000 because there will be no demand left.
A person breed this horse by combining it with two other horses and paying a mint fee. I bought it from him. He earned about $75 after mint. I raced the horse and earned around .12 ETH. I sold (dumped lol) the horse to the next guy for .55 ETH. He raced the horse and earned another .88 ETH and isstill racing.
Look at this other horse I bought unraced, named and raced for a profit then "dumped" on someone else who earned over 1 ETH racing, playing the game.
Now that you've seen a game where people actually earn playing the game, you can say you know one. If you like I can show you others.
Think this is some strange scam? Here you can see hundreds of thousands of horses owned by people playing the game having fun and earning money. https://knowyourhorses.com/
The question is will Sqaure Enix make a game in their own fun way that this can happen. Will EA, Will Ubisoft? I don't know. It's doubtfull. What I do know is there is no way in hell will I support them until they do.
LoL. This all reminds me of the 'outrage' that people had decades ago about F2P. I spent years explaining to people on this forum why for many F2P was a better choice, and how it was going to eventually be the dominant business model. My opinions were not popular, and people were upset about the changes in the market (and still are).
Crypto/NFT gaming falls in the same category. It offers something that will eventually become a dominant feature in all gaming. Just like with F2P, players will have the choice to make it work for them, or work against them (with similar results).
My guess is that almost everyone here has played one game just like this minus the new crypto lingo trappings. The game? Diablo 3 when it first launched with the Real Money Auction House.
You and others seem to think this is all brand new, never done before when in fact this pay to win shit with players doing both the buying and the selling of the P2W stuff is very old. I guess you're seduced by the buzz words like "NFT" and whatever the game specific crypto currency is named.
And Diablo 3 when it had the RMAH was a colossal flop and a piece of shit precisely because of the RMAH. But hey, some dweebs loved it because they could make a couple of bucks. Whoopty frigging doo.
To make the RMAH work what Blizzard did was they nerfed the shit out of drop rates, in a looter ARPG of all bloody games to do it in.
In order to gear up in any amount of time that felt reasonable by looter ARPG standards you had to buy items because the drop rates were that bad. And it's also why players quit playing the game to the point that Blizz did away with the RMAH, brought up the drop rates to reasonable standards and released a very good expansion, Reaper of Souls, to try to bring everyone back.
And it worked. Players came back, enjoyed the new version of the game and have played for years.
Just because you think this sort of stuff hasn't been done before doesn't make it so.
Not the same.
D3 RMAH was a failed attempt at innovation by AAA megacorp gaming company
vs
Crypto Gaming/nft/p2e is a successful innovation by indie game companies.
+
D3 profit was determined by RNG drops.
vs
P2E depending on the game is determined by factors mostly within the player's control.
D3 was a btp game
vs
Many p2e games are FTP requiring $0.00 or just a minimal upfront cost.
You are able to plan out roughly how much you can make per day(minimum amount) Which is probably why there's been an ongoing mass exodus of SEA players from regular mobile games lol.
People here still aren't seeing the big picture that the Crypto Gaming economy in the short time it's been around is already self sustaining and mostly unreliant on the old guard gaming industry... Which is why Ubisoft, SE & EA are trying to 'get ahead of it' basically inviting themselves to the party...
The crypto gaming world will always get people from traditional/legacy gaming but will see very few go back that way.... Once you go crypto you don't go back...
Crypto/nft/p2e gaming has brought people who I dare to say are 'normal people'? that only took interest in gaming because there was/is now money to be made. It's the same mass appeal as when WoW broke the gaming taboo and we saw a lot more women playing games.
The 'making money' aspect was the lure this time around not societal acceptance like with WoW circa 2005-2008.
Watch the popular crypto/nft/p2e gaming streamers and they'll give you hard numbers/facts/info & even spreadsheets because they know they're talking to adults dealing with money and no one should fk around when discussing that. You may even see a disclaimer or two about how they're not financial advisors and what they say should not be taken as that lol.
At the end of the day your Nana on her fixed income can play many of these minimalist p2e games to earn extra money cause many are relaxing/casual games + easy on the eyes.
they keep saying this but so far ubisoft made like 400 bucks from NFT. some corporate idiots guessed wrong
Closer to a couple thousand dollars now. Still not a crazy success, but that's kind of the interesting thing with NFTs. Just because it doesn't make money right away doesn't mean it won't pay for itself down the line.
Meh... Second Life and Entropia have been doing this for years... With little to no good effect. This is just investor boner cutting of the blood flow to the brain of these numpties.
I've played Second Life for ten years now and although it is in some respect NFT's without the moniker the prices are nowhere near 288,000$ for a short gif of a vaporwave grandma dancing.
The Stranger: It's what people know about themselves inside that makes 'em afraid.
LoL. This all reminds me of the 'outrage' that people had decades ago about F2P. I spent years explaining to people on this forum why for many F2P was a better choice, and how it was going to eventually be the dominant business model. My opinions were not popular, and people were upset about the changes in the market (and still are).
Crypto/NFT gaming falls in the same category. It offers something that will eventually become a dominant feature in all gaming. Just like with F2P, players will have the choice to make it work for them, or work against them (with similar results).
Free 2 Play was all about removing barriers to entry, casting the net as wide as possible.
Whilst I still hate it and refuse to use it, the removal of barriers to entry was always going to be beneficial to the studios in terms of player numbers. After that, its all about converting those players into money.
Play 2 Earn, so far, does nothing but put barriers in your way. Whether those barriers are things like setting up wallets, or spending $100s on your initial buy-in, those barriers are going to prove far less popular than F2P ever was. The games are going to have to offer soemthing pretty special in order to convince players to overcome those barriers.
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman
LoL. This all reminds me of the 'outrage' that people had decades ago about F2P. I spent years explaining to people on this forum why for many F2P was a better choice, and how it was going to eventually be the dominant business model. My opinions were not popular, and people were upset about the changes in the market (and still are).
Crypto/NFT gaming falls in the same category. It offers something that will eventually become a dominant feature in all gaming. Just like with F2P, players will have the choice to make it work for them, or work against them (with similar results).
As long as you're making a buck, who gives a shit about full page ads in games, broadcast messages about the cash shop, pay for convenience (after making the game deliberately inconvenient, of course) or even pay to win whether it's the company selling the P2W items or players. It's all about the $$s... fuck what it does it to the gaming, experience. That's just for the rubes and losers (A.K.A. gamers.)
"Dominant business model?" To gamers it ain't about business models, it's about the frigging games.
Yup F2P sure was a wonderful thing for gaming and so will be Crypto gaming. (Insert "it is what it is" and other empty rationalizations here.)
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
LoL. This all reminds me of the 'outrage' that people had decades ago about F2P. I spent years explaining to people on this forum why for many F2P was a better choice, and how it was going to eventually be the dominant business model. My opinions were not popular, and people were upset about the changes in the market (and still are).
Crypto/NFT gaming falls in the same category. It offers something that will eventually become a dominant feature in all gaming. Just like with F2P, players will have the choice to make it work for them, or work against them (with similar results).
Free 2 Play was all about removing barriers to entry, casting the net as wide as possible.
Whilst I still hate it and refuse to use it, the removal of barriers to entry was always going to be beneficial to the studios in terms of player numbers. After that, its all about converting those players into money.
Play 2 Earn, so far, does nothing but put barriers in your way. Whether those barriers are things like setting up wallets, or spending $100s on your initial buy-in, those barriers are going to prove far less popular than F2P ever was. The games are going to have to offer soemthing pretty special in order to convince players to overcome those barriers.
https://metamask.io/ Click download. Choose your browser. Click install. Follow prompts.
You now have an Ethereum wallet. You can now sign into all web3 applications.
Playing to earn is a job. When I was a teenager and broke I would have played to earn. Now I play a game to relax from my job. I think there will be an audience but mostly kids and people paid to play to earn. We have gold farmers, levelling servics etc. since forever, we can expect them to support this.
I play pretend ownership and know it's not mine, there are so many games I no longer play with the things I "own" in them. Who cares, why would I want the stress of owning it for real.
Well clearly the games themselves aren't enough to keep people distracted while they are being robbed of their culture, countries, resources etc. So paying you to be distracted seems to be the next logical step as your world is systematically dissolved around you.
Comments
That part that's convieniatly left out is the link (data contained in all nfts) points to a file stored in an immutible decentralized storage system that is secured by the nft owners private key.
while gaming always drove the grey market, at the same time the motivation to play such games comes out of people who have fun playing them, mixing too much of a "investment nature" to it and I struggle to find an healthy playerbase if you have too much of people who aren't there for "having fun".
This ends up reminding me of Entropia Universe where the playerbase was about the numbers and profitability almost nobody would do something for "fun" it was always about gain prospects and chances.
This smells like a bubble that will burst, if they focus in who's paying and not who's playing the value they have in their hands is on their imagination.
You and others seem to think this is all brand new, never done before when in fact this pay to win shit with players doing both the buying and the selling of the P2W stuff is very old. I guess you're seduced by the buzz words like "NFT" and whatever the game specific crypto currency is named.
And Diablo 3 when it had the RMAH was a colossal flop and a piece of shit precisely because of the RMAH. But hey, some dweebs loved it because they could make a couple of bucks. Whoopty frigging doo.
To make the RMAH work what Blizzard did was they nerfed the shit out of drop rates, in a looter ARPG of all bloody games to do it in.
In order to gear up in any amount of time that felt reasonable by looter ARPG standards you had to buy items because the drop rates were that bad. And it's also why players quit playing the game to the point that Blizz did away with the RMAH, brought up the drop rates to reasonable standards and released a very good expansion, Reaper of Souls, to try to bring everyone back.
And it worked. Players came back, enjoyed the new version of the game and have played for years.
Just because you think this sort of stuff hasn't been done before doesn't make it so.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
https://biturl.top/rU7bY3
Beyond the shadows there's always light
The pre alpha sales on the sand box were something like 12,000$ for a piece of land.
Chumbi Valley, another NFT blockchain game I follow does not even have actual game play but people are buying these Chumbi nfts for thousands of dollars.
If you look at game NFT assets on OpenSea something as simple as an 8 bit holiday sparkler is going for 240$
This is the future of disposable income of the wealthy it is not the future of gaming.
The Stranger: It's what people know about themselves inside that makes 'em afraid.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
This have been a good conversation
A lot of early adopters may not come out as ahead as they'd hoped once the market corrects and at that point it will become more affordable for most gamers.
And by affordable I mean around 1.00 per transaction. In order for it to happen the market needs to hit saturation and we're really far from that.
If you can earn .025 ETH a day, forever.. 1k for that NFT is an absolute steal. 5k is not even a reach. I don't see the demand for NFTs like this changing anytime soon.
Look at this other horse I bought unraced, named and raced for a profit then "dumped" on someone else who earned over 1 ETH racing, playing the game.
Now that you've seen a game where people actually earn playing the game, you can say you know one. If you like I can show you others.
Think this is some strange scam? Here you can see hundreds of thousands of horses owned by people playing the game having fun and earning money.
https://knowyourhorses.com/
The question is will Sqaure Enix make a game in their own fun way that this can happen. Will EA, Will Ubisoft? I don't know. It's doubtfull. What I do know is there is no way in hell will I support them until they do.
Crypto/NFT gaming falls in the same category. It offers something that will eventually become a dominant feature in all gaming. Just like with F2P, players will have the choice to make it work for them, or work against them (with similar results).
The Stranger: It's what people know about themselves inside that makes 'em afraid.
"Dominant business model?" To gamers it ain't about business models, it's about the frigging games.
Yup F2P sure was a wonderful thing for gaming and so will be Crypto gaming. (Insert "it is what it is" and other empty rationalizations here.)
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Click download. Choose your browser. Click install. Follow prompts.
You now have an Ethereum wallet. You can now sign into all web3 applications.
I play pretend ownership and know it's not mine, there are so many games I no longer play with the things I "own" in them. Who cares, why would I want the stress of owning it for real.
stinks of desperation if you ask me.