Regardless of why they changed the roadmap, it's a bed of their own making.
Their project and funding scheme is not some kind of inalienable right or requirement. It was their choice. They should endure the consequences of that choice.
Anyone else find it fascinating that Richard Garriott and Chris Roberts darted right into deep water and drowned without Robert Garriott holding the leash?
This was the fundamental misunderstanding from the start. People thought Chris Roberts was a veteran, he's made successful games before. He knows what he is doing. The game is on track and will release around 2015 or 2016.
Roberts apparently thought that the infinite money also meant an infinite schedule. Heck, there is no real schedule. They do not know what it will take to release the full product, or when they can do it. They aren't even thinking that way.
Roberts got to try to make the game of his dreams. He wasn't trying to make a product. His "roadmaps" were just his own pipe dreams of what he wanted to do, not what he actually could do. This isn't game development, this is Roberts trying to realize his dreams.
I'll bet there are a lot of people who put down the minimum $45 and had fun in the game as it is now. They got their money's worth. For those who put in thousands, it was all just a dream anyway.
The whole idea of the roadmap is absurd, surely players realise that if you can tell when all these various elements of development are going to be done you could just pick a launch date and be spot on? CIG has been hoisted on their own petard, players will hold you to the fantasy schedule you have given them. Bearing all this in mind I really wish the items on here by Christina would put a question mark over the roadmap for any game.
As a long time project manager I find overly detailed roadmaps to be largely a waste of time, even more so when used to try to predict events very far into the future.
So in a rare occasion I actually understand their actions and their line of reasoning why they are doing this.
Some customers in general too often take projections as promises, and their noise can definitely rile up others which in this case could drive off potential new backers which RSI can't afford.
These are logical moves even if many don't like or agree with them.
It is not that I don't agree with them having a roadmap, I just don't think they should publish them. Broadest strokes yes, "we will be looking to come out of alpha in three years time", that sort of thing. No one can predicate the future; near me, building work in the adjacent apartments finished a month and a half late. These things happen and knowing customers think they are set in stone is why you should be vague.
The whole idea of the roadmap is absurd, surely players realise that if you can tell when all these various elements of development are going to be done you could just pick a launch date and be spot on? CIG has been hoisted on their own petard, players will hold you to the fantasy schedule you have given them. Bearing all this in mind I really wish the items on here by Christina would put a question mark over the roadmap for any game.
As a long time project manager I find overly detailed roadmaps to be largely a waste of time, even more so when used to try to predict events very far into the future.
So in a rare occasion I actually understand their actions and their line of reasoning why they are doing this.
Some customers in general too often take projections as promises, and their noise can definitely rile up others which in this case could drive off potential new backers which RSI can't afford.
These are logical moves even if many don't like or agree with them.
Why was it not logical to simply publish a map they can do rather than blame their supporters for (gasp) believing their roadmap.
The whole idea of the roadmap is absurd, surely players realise that if you can tell when all these various elements of development are going to be done you could just pick a launch date and be spot on? CIG has been hoisted on their own petard, players will hold you to the fantasy schedule you have given them. Bearing all this in mind I really wish the items on here by Christina would put a question mark over the roadmap for any game.
As a long time project manager I find overly detailed roadmaps to be largely a waste of time, even more so when used to try to predict events very far into the future.
So in a rare occasion I actually understand their actions and their line of reasoning why they are doing this.
Some customers in general too often take projections as promises, and their noise can definitely rile up others which in this case could drive off potential new backers which RSI can't afford.
These are logical moves even if many don't like or agree with them.
It is not that I don't agree with them having a roadmap, I just don't think they should publish them. Broadest strokes yes, "we will be looking to come out of alpha in three years time", that sort of thing. No one can predicate the future; near me, building work in the adjacent apartments finished a month and a half late. These things happen and knowing customers think they are set in stone is why you should be vague.
Now imagine that the apartment building next door is SIX YEARS late.
The whole idea of the roadmap is absurd, surely players realise that if you can tell when all these various elements of development are going to be done you could just pick a launch date and be spot on? CIG has been hoisted on their own petard, players will hold you to the fantasy schedule you have given them. Bearing all this in mind I really wish the items on here by Christina would put a question mark over the roadmap for any game.
As a long time project manager I find overly detailed roadmaps to be largely a waste of time, even more so when used to try to predict events very far into the future.
So in a rare occasion I actually understand their actions and their line of reasoning why they are doing this.
Some customers in general too often take projections as promises, and their noise can definitely rile up others which in this case could drive off potential new backers which RSI can't afford.
These are logical moves even if many don't like or agree with them.
It is not that I don't agree with them having a roadmap, I just don't think they should publish them. Broadest strokes yes, "we will be looking to come out of alpha in three years time", that sort of thing. No one can predicate the future; near me, building work in the adjacent apartments finished a month and a half late. These things happen and knowing customers think they are set in stone is why you should be vague.
Now imagine that the apartment building next door is SIX YEARS late.
Exactly this. No one can predict the future, but acting as if over half a decade late is the norm or acceptable is just disingenuous.
There are literal real life airframes designed, engineered, tested, and then produced in less time than SC has been in development. And SC is still in alpha lol.
The whole idea of the roadmap is absurd, surely players realise that if you can tell when all these various elements of development are going to be done you could just pick a launch date and be spot on? CIG has been hoisted on their own petard, players will hold you to the fantasy schedule you have given them. Bearing all this in mind I really wish the items on here by Christina would put a question mark over the roadmap for any game.
As a long time project manager I find overly detailed roadmaps to be largely a waste of time, even more so when used to try to predict events very far into the future.
So in a rare occasion I actually understand their actions and their line of reasoning why they are doing this.
Some customers in general too often take projections as promises, and their noise can definitely rile up others which in this case could drive off potential new backers which RSI can't afford.
These are logical moves even if many don't like or agree with them.
It is not that I don't agree with them having a roadmap, I just don't think they should publish them. Broadest strokes yes, "we will be looking to come out of alpha in three years time", that sort of thing. No one can predicate the future; near me, building work in the adjacent apartments finished a month and a half late. These things happen and knowing customers think they are set in stone is why you should be vague.
Now imagine that the apartment building next door is SIX YEARS late.
6 years late AND THEY WON'T TELL YOU HOW MUCH LONGER!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The whole idea of the roadmap is absurd, surely players realise that if you can tell when all these various elements of development are going to be done you could just pick a launch date and be spot on? CIG has been hoisted on their own petard, players will hold you to the fantasy schedule you have given them. Bearing all this in mind I really wish the items on here by Christina would put a question mark over the roadmap for any game.
As a long time project manager I find overly detailed roadmaps to be largely a waste of time, even more so when used to try to predict events very far into the future.
So in a rare occasion I actually understand their actions and their line of reasoning why they are doing this.
Some customers in general too often take projections as promises, and their noise can definitely rile up others which in this case could drive off potential new backers which RSI can't afford.
These are logical moves even if many don't like or agree with them.
It is not that I don't agree with them having a roadmap, I just don't think they should publish them. Broadest strokes yes, "we will be looking to come out of alpha in three years time", that sort of thing. No one can predicate the future; near me, building work in the adjacent apartments finished a month and a half late. These things happen and knowing customers think they are set in stone is why you should be vague.
Now imagine that the apartment building next door is SIX YEARS late.
6 years late AND THEY WON'T TELL YOU HOW MUCH LONGER!
No no no, it started out as an apartment building. Right now it is becoming a full blown metropolis. With lasers. On the moon. You people need to think bigger.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
The whole idea of the roadmap is absurd, surely players realise that if you can tell when all these various elements of development are going to be done you could just pick a launch date and be spot on? CIG has been hoisted on their own petard, players will hold you to the fantasy schedule you have given them. Bearing all this in mind I really wish the items on here by Christina would put a question mark over the roadmap for any game.
As a long time project manager I find overly detailed roadmaps to be largely a waste of time, even more so when used to try to predict events very far into the future.
So in a rare occasion I actually understand their actions and their line of reasoning why they are doing this.
Some customers in general too often take projections as promises, and their noise can definitely rile up others which in this case could drive off potential new backers which RSI can't afford.
These are logical moves even if many don't like or agree with them.
It is not that I don't agree with them having a roadmap, I just don't think they should publish them. Broadest strokes yes, "we will be looking to come out of alpha in three years time", that sort of thing. No one can predicate the future; near me, building work in the adjacent apartments finished a month and a half late. These things happen and knowing customers think they are set in stone is why you should be vague.
Now imagine that the apartment building next door is SIX YEARS late.
6 years late AND THEY WON'T TELL YOU HOW MUCH LONGER!
No no no, it started out as an apartment building. Right now it is becoming a full blown metropolis. With lasers. On the moon. You people need to think bigger.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Actually this is what in fact has been going on since day 1. As the funding kept coming in, the vision kept expanding.
Almost every single feature is being created in ways never first estimated or imagined, and this project is the poster child for gold plating.
"Our worlds will have clouds, but just any old clouds, they will be the most realistic, fantastical cloud simulation ever seen in a video game, or anywhere else for that matter, even better than the real world."
Build your entire game like this, 20 years won't be enough time
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The whole idea of the roadmap is absurd, surely players realise that if you can tell when all these various elements of development are going to be done you could just pick a launch date and be spot on? CIG has been hoisted on their own petard, players will hold you to the fantasy schedule you have given them. Bearing all this in mind I really wish the items on here by Christina would put a question mark over the roadmap for any game.
As a long time project manager I find overly detailed roadmaps to be largely a waste of time, even more so when used to try to predict events very far into the future.
So in a rare occasion I actually understand their actions and their line of reasoning why they are doing this.
Some customers in general too often take projections as promises, and their noise can definitely rile up others which in this case could drive off potential new backers which RSI can't afford.
These are logical moves even if many don't like or agree with them.
It is not that I don't agree with them having a roadmap, I just don't think they should publish them. Broadest strokes yes, "we will be looking to come out of alpha in three years time", that sort of thing. No one can predicate the future; near me, building work in the adjacent apartments finished a month and a half late. These things happen and knowing customers think they are set in stone is why you should be vague.
Now imagine that the apartment building next door is SIX YEARS late.
6 years late AND THEY WON'T TELL YOU HOW MUCH LONGER!
No no no, it started out as an apartment building. Right now it is becoming a full blown metropolis. With lasers. On the moon. You people need to think bigger.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Actually this is what in fact has been going on since day 1. As the funding kept coming in, the vision kept expanding.
Almost every single feature is being created in ways never first estimated or imagined, and this project is the poster child for gold plating.
"Our worlds will have clouds, but just any old clouds, they will be the most realistic, fantastical cloud simulation ever seen in a video game, or anywhere else for that matter, even better than the real world."
Build your entire game like this, 20 years won't be enough time
And the average user's PC will run it like mud flowing through a plastic straw.
Anyone else find it fascinating that Richard Garriott and Chris Roberts darted right into deep water and drowned without Robert Garriott holding the leash?
One old Origin hand told me that that company would have folded early without Robert Garriott there to crack the whip.
Star Long was supposed to do that for Richard. I doubt Chris would allow anyone to sully his genius.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
"we put it in the roadmap, this time it's what we are pretty
damned sure we can do."
Noone take you seriously anymore, zealot - not even your god. Go enjoy your 400million worth of perfect SC experience and leave the forums to sane people
Gotta love the bullshit drama. It's the only time trolls come out of their caves to feel relevant.
Disclaimer: I, for now have stepped away from SC, it has become unplayable on my current machine. Once there is a hardware upgrade on my side I will join again.
There's no Distraction. Nothing in the development changed, they are still developing the same stuff. They just made the visual representation of the roadmap clearer and called out the toxic drama queens on their antics. With good reason, and if they can get some more crybabies to refund the Game and it's Community wins again.
About why I keep posting the Funding milestones... It's specially for those who said CIG was gonna collapse and everyone who believed in them.
Also, What's your specs? I'm pretty sure you can do some tweaks to improve performance.
As a long time project manager I find overly detailed roadmaps to be largely a waste of time, even more so when used to try to predict events very far into the future. So in a rare occasion I actually understand their actions and their line of reasoning why they are doing this. Some customers in general too often take projections as promises, and their noise can definitely rile up others which in this case could drive off potential new backers which RSI can't afford. These are logical moves even if many don't like or agree with them.
Yes they are a waste of time indeed, because game development can't be predicted that far and they know it. But they did it anyway because they had faith in their community to understands it. And they do, the majority really does and is quite used to software development in general.
So CIG took their time and made the effort to be transparent with it's community by showcasing their development intentions while adding multiple disclaimers about how those were just future intentions and not promises made in stone. Guess what, doesn't matter how much disclaimers they put. It only takes a bunch of people not reading or able to adjust expectations to make a circus lol.
That loud toxic bunch of manchilds which every niche game has that can't manage their emotions and inevitably has an outburst when things change. The Angry Gamer aka The Karen's of open development.
That loud toxic bunch of manchilds which every niche game has that can't manage their emotions and inevitably has an outburst when things change. The Angry Gamer aka The Karen's of open development.
Anyway.
Dude just give up. We can see from your increasingly more and more vile and toxic responses that youre getting more bitter because its getting harder and harder to defend CIGs decisions. Everyone else can read you like an open book :
Some lone dude who spent thousands of dollars pledging for something that looked cool and completely fell in love with it so you kept defending it from 'haters' because the next year (2015,2016,2017,2018,2019,2020,2021..) it'll definately show 'em!
But years pass by, the game is still a shallow skeleton of what it was supposed to be and people are just making more and more fun of you and youre too deep to admit it was a mistake
Have some guts man and just say 'CIG even I am losing my f***** patience'. The RSI forums is currently flooded with subscribers that spent thousands admiting that the latest announcement have finally opened their eyes and they are closing their wallet at least until CIG delivers something substantial
The saddest thing is, that these people, along with the other folk who are not afraid to criticize your beloved idols that you so desperately hate and mock, are actually the ones that can save your dream.
Because if every fan acted the way you do and defend every delay, every feature creep, every lie CIG made, the company would have ZERO incentive to actually deliver something.
Hell I wouldnt deliver a damn thing if some idiots would keep giving me money and defending my laziness for free!
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
Stop Having Fun shouts the Gaming Karens, such a sCam:
Apparently when a good game comes from a shitty company you can’t call the company shitty anymore, at least that is what you are trying to make us believe. I guess since Blizzard makes excellent games the people that suffered horribly in the company were Karens too? ‘Gaming Karens,’ that is some dishonest, misjudged BS right there.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Apparently when a good game comes from a shitty company you can’t call the company shitty anymore, at least that is what you are trying to make us believe. I guess since Blizzard makes excellent games the people that suffered horribly in the company were Karens too? ‘Gaming Karens,’ that is some dishonest, misjudged BS right there.
I dunno how you extrapolated what I said to Blizzard or it's workers but there's no relation whatsoever:
Gaming Karens = Angry Gamers
"Extremely vocal gamers who are vehemently angry with a developer about things."
Comments
Their project and funding scheme is not some kind of inalienable right or requirement. It was their choice. They should endure the consequences of that choice.
Date X - Sale of A
Date Y - Sale of B
Date Z - Sale of C
Somehow... those they can hit with 100 percent accuracy.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
Now imagine that the apartment building next door is SIX YEARS late.
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
There are literal real life airframes designed, engineered, tested, and then produced in less time than SC has been in development. And SC is still in alpha lol.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Almost every single feature is being created in ways never first estimated or imagined, and this project is the poster child for gold plating.
"Our worlds will have clouds, but just any old clouds, they will be the most realistic, fantastical cloud simulation ever seen in a video game, or anywhere else for that matter, even better than the real world."
Build your entire game like this, 20 years won't be enough time
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Star Long was supposed to do that for Richard. I doubt Chris would allow anyone to sully his genius.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
https://biturl.top/rU7bY3
Beyond the shadows there's always light
Stop Having Fun shouts the Gaming Karens while Development continues, more backers join the fun and CIG breaks funding records.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Gaming Karens = Angry Gamers
"Extremely vocal gamers who are vehemently angry with a developer about things."
Full explanation here:
https://askagamedev.tumblr.com/post/96091066151/understanding-the-angry-gamer