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Amazon Game Studio Head Steps Down Amid Declining New World Active Players | MMORPG.com

SystemSystem Member UncommonPosts: 12,599
edited March 2022 in News & Features Discussion

imageAmazon Game Studio Head Steps Down Amid Declining New World Active Players | MMORPG.com

In a report by Bloomberg, news broke that Mike Frazzini, head of Amazon Game Studios, has stepped down. According to the report, Frazzini stated he was stepping down to focus on his family. The news comes as AGS's flagship title New World continues to hemorrhage players, down to an average peak player count of around 27K players according to SteamDB.

Read the full story here


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  • goemoegoemoe Member UncommonPosts: 288
    Finally. This guy never knew what he was doing. Perhaps now AGS realizes that making games is about providing fun, not only to collect prime subs for data collecting features.
    eoloeFedaygin[Deleted User]achesomafoppoteeKrisConwayalin1209JeroKaneAsm0deusPuReDusTand 4 others.
  • OldKingLogOldKingLog Member RarePosts: 600
    edited March 2022
    The Bloomberg article references a former AGS manager that stated Frazzini’s leadership was one of the main culprits to the unsuccessful developments in Amazon’s game division. According to the article, Amazon’s work culture believes that a successful leader can succeed no matter their department, but Frazzini’s success in Amazon’s Book division did not seem to translate, and AGS appears to have faltered on several important projects over the years.

    Why does this not fucking surprise me. "Here's your new leader!" "Shouldn't we get a leader with an idea of how to make video games?" "Come now he was awesome heading our book department. I'm sure he'll have some great ideas for you guys to succeed as well." ... "What? Like ideas about books? That's not going to be very helpful."



    Kyleraneoloeachesomaalin1209kjempffTuor7
  • kilunkilun Member UncommonPosts: 829
    This is a general issue with corporations. They think success translates and that high management degrees are the most important. There are too many skills that some people possess that can't translate with a degree.

    Example, I'm a licensed professional counselor. You can't teach genuine empathy and the ability to build rapport in a classroom. It doesn't happen, that is why you do close to 700 hours of practicum. At the end of the day, you may obtain the degree and never work in the field because you just genuinely lack those skills.

    Management is the same exact thing. Connecting with people to get their best, so your department shines. If this dude was unable to connect with the people making the game who play games and understand what actually makes people stay and play and spend money on games, then that is on him for not wanting to understand. He probably was more irritated he got placed here as he was doing something that was working for him and got thrown into this new video game crap for children (Heard it numerous times from adults who don't play any games or have any real hobbies)
    OldKingLogeoloeFedayginMendelfoppoteealin1209Asm0deusVidahrRaivyn79
  • eoloeeoloe Member RarePosts: 864
    edited March 2022
    "According to the article, Amazon’s work culture believes that a successful leader can succeed no matter their department, but Frazzini’s success in Amazon’s Book division did not seem to translate"

    image
    OldKingLogFedayginDiabhualkilunillutianKrisConwayAsm0deusTillerTuor7Raivyn79
  • OldKingLogOldKingLog Member RarePosts: 600
    Horrible thought, maybe it was intentional sabotage to get people to quit gaming and read more books.....
    GroqstrongeoloemaskedweaselFedayginKyleranLePetitSoldatDiabhualachesomaangerbeaverCalavryand 6 others.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,975
    kilun said:
    This is a general issue with corporations. They think success translates and that high management degrees are the most important. There are too many skills that some people possess that can't translate with a degree.

    Example, I'm a licensed professional counselor. You can't teach genuine empathy and the ability to build rapport in a classroom. It doesn't happen, that is why you do close to 700 hours of practicum. At the end of the day, you may obtain the degree and never work in the field because you just genuinely lack those skills.

    Management is the same exact thing. Connecting with people to get their best, so your department shines. If this dude was unable to connect with the people making the game who play games and understand what actually makes people stay and play and spend money on games, then that is on him for not wanting to understand. He probably was more irritated he got placed here as he was doing something that was working for him and got thrown into this new video game crap for children (Heard it numerous times from adults who don't play any games or have any real hobbies)
    There certainly has been many occasions when an Executive from one industry has succeeded in an entirely different one, with arguments on both sides whether it's a good practice or not.

    Regardless, not every leader can transition their previous success to a new venture, clearly the case at AGS for sure.

    The bad news is ..Bobby Kotick is looking for a new job I hear.

    ;)






    FedayginDr_BinksAsm0deus

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    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

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  • Jaguaratron1Jaguaratron1 Member UncommonPosts: 299
    I genuinely cannot fathom how it took so long.
    Kyleran[Deleted User]Mendel
  • MnemnosyneMnemnosyne Member UncommonPosts: 8

    Kyleran said:

    There certainly has been many occasions when an Executive from one industry has succeeded in an entirely different one, with arguments on both sides whether it's a good practice or not.

    Regardless, not every leader can transition their previous success to a new venture, clearly the case at AGS for sure.

    The bad news is ..Bobby Kotick is looking for a new job I hear.

    ;)

    Yeah, the kind of person who leads because they listen to those who know the details about a thing, and is good at understanding what they're being told, then evaluating those needs against the needs of other people who know what they're talking about...that kind of person can succeed as a manager/leader anywhere. They don't need to know much of anything about the actual job the people they're managing are doing, they just need to know how to listen and judge what they're being told. They have a strong understanding not of the actual product, but are good at gathering information from people who do understand, and then processing that in a useful way.

    The other kind of successful leader, one whose leadership success is because of knowing the actual job, cannot translate that success to other fields, at least not without also becoming an expert in that field first. Someone who knows automobile manufacturing inside and out can do a great job managing it because they understand what's needed and if there's any problems, they can spot those problems themselves and know what to do about them, so they can quickly assign the right people. But they're used to knowing a lot themselves. Being right. Not needing the advice of others who know more than them about the topic, because they often know best. Put them in charge of something they're not equally familiar with, and they will crash and burn because they have no idea what they're doing, but also aren't good at gathering the information from those who do. Many refuse to acknowledge their lack of understanding, so they don't even try to learn what to do better, and blame all failure on others.
    KyleranMendelkilunBrainy
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    Shut Up Scorch
    OldKingLogScot
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,586
    Smeadley's chance to shine?

    [Deleted User]KyleranScotTuor7

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  • olepiolepi Member EpicPosts: 3,017
    I've seen this happen a few times. In 1982, I was in a chip design software startup (CAD) when we were bought by General Electric. We become one of the 250 business units of GE.

    They sent down a new CEO for us, from the Small Steam Turbine Division. A business is a business they said, he doesn't need to know anything about chip design.

    The problem is, what happens when two of his VP's disagree? With no experience, he won't know to avoid major mistakes. And if all he can do is manage people, without knowing anything about what they are doing, then he cannot provide any leadership.

    What I want, is a manager that is knowledgeable enough in the field to not commit us to doing something stupid.

    [Deleted User][Deleted User]MendelBLNXTuor7

    ------------
    2024: 47 years on the Net.


  • k61977k61977 Member EpicPosts: 1,523
    Maybe just maybe the people running gaming companies should be people that actually work in the field or maybe just maybe be people that actually play the games they make.
    [Deleted User]eoloeBrainy
  • MendelMendel Member LegendaryPosts: 5,609
    olepi said:
    I've seen this happen a few times. In 1982, I was in a chip design software startup (CAD) when we were bought by General Electric. We become one of the 250 business units of GE.

    They sent down a new CEO for us, from the Small Steam Turbine Division. A business is a business they said, he doesn't need to know anything about chip design.

    The problem is, what happens when two of his VP's disagree? With no experience, he won't know to avoid major mistakes. And if all he can do is manage people, without knowing anything about what they are doing, then he cannot provide any leadership.

    What I want, is a manager that is knowledgeable enough in the field to not commit us to doing something stupid.


    Maybe there's also a matter of corporate culture in operation.  Running a book division *may* function well with a specific way of doing things -- management style, bonuses based on sales, etc. -- that is different from how they attempted to set up the internal culture of AGS.  I can imagine Amazon's book division primarily dealing with external authors/publishers and internal warehouse employees.  That may have been quite different from dealing with technology-based employees.  Clearly, someone didn't understand the need for professional QA and Customer Support.

    I was with Burroughs when it merged with Sperry to form Unisys.  The division I was in had a certain way of doing business.  The Burroughs management was replaced with Sperry management, and everything changed, from handling payroll to interacting with clients.  The changes made by the new management team eventually led to a smaller, dissatisfied staff, and an inadequate plan for rebidding the government contract I was supporting.

    Changes in the corporate management can be a cancer or salvation to a business.



    OldKingLogKyleran

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • XNL00XNL00 Newbie CommonPosts: 10
    AGS can fire everybody and contract the bests minds of the market and the final result will be the same. Crucible, NW, and LA can easily show that AGS is not interested in create/manage good games or does not have an focus in mind that benefit not just their wallet but also create one active community of avid players that will espand time and money in their product (something that require ability but that is extremelly rewarded in long-term).

    goemoe said:
    Perhaps now AGS realizes that making games is about providing fun, not only to collect prime subs for data collecting features.
    Have fun is the last thing that devs will focus. They're extremelly concentrated in manage how milky the player wallet before things go downwhill. They will focus in the market and hype because theres is no product available.

    kilun said:
    video game crap for children (Heard it numerous times from adults who don't play any games or have any real hobbies)

    One of the things that are killing this industry is it. The average age of "gamers" is 30 or more but people and even the ones that work in this industry continue talking about this BS that videogame is something to children... it's something that kill a game even before it be released or placed on paper. I believe that dark themes and mature tematics is what this industry need principally western developers that love realistic graphics. They just need just learn how just create games.

    k61977 said:
    Maybe just maybe the people running gaming companies should be people that actually work in the field or maybe just maybe be people that actually play the games they make.

    Someone that just want create good games (knowing that will be rewarded for it) and have someone to check if things are doing well seems good enough. Probably they never putted a control in hands.





    maskedweaselScot
  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 8,164
    If you intend to spend so much on a game division why not get qualified people to run it. Surely there were better candidates than this book guy.
    Signex

  • Dr_BinksDr_Binks Member UncommonPosts: 271

    Kyleran said:


    kilun said:

    This is a general issue with corporations. They think success translates and that high management degrees are the most important. There are too many skills that some people possess that can't translate with a degree.



    Example, I'm a licensed professional counselor. You can't teach genuine empathy and the ability to build rapport in a classroom. It doesn't happen, that is why you do close to 700 hours of practicum. At the end of the day, you may obtain the degree and never work in the field because you just genuinely lack those skills.



    Management is the same exact thing. Connecting with people to get their best, so your department shines. If this dude was unable to connect with the people making the game who play games and understand what actually makes people stay and play and spend money on games, then that is on him for not wanting to understand. He probably was more irritated he got placed here as he was doing something that was working for him and got thrown into this new video game crap for children (Heard it numerous times from adults who don't play any games or have any real hobbies)


    There certainly has been many occasions when an Executive from one industry has succeeded in an entirely different one, with arguments on both sides whether it's a good practice or not.

    Regardless, not every leader can transition their previous success to a new venture, clearly the case at AGS for sure.

    The bad news is ..Bobby Kotick is looking for a new job I hear.

    ;)









    Yes you are correct. A key to being a good leader is to surround yourself with good people and then to open your ears and listen to them.

    The problem with too many so called leaders to day is they are not willing to do that. Many of them are not willing to take constructive criticism because they are more interested in is having "yes people" on their team instead of someone who has the balls to say "That will never work".

    Amazon had a game that could have been much better then what they came up with. But all of the pasty and copy of assets and boring questing kill their game. I doubt they can save it as it needs a lot of work! Plus once a game get marked it's hard to erase that mark.
  • olepiolepi Member EpicPosts: 3,017
    Dr_Binks said:

    Kyleran said:


    kilun said:

    This is a general issue with corporations. They think success translates and that high management degrees are the most important. There are too many skills that some people possess that can't translate with a degree.



    Example, I'm a licensed professional counselor. You can't teach genuine empathy and the ability to build rapport in a classroom. It doesn't happen, that is why you do close to 700 hours of practicum. At the end of the day, you may obtain the degree and never work in the field because you just genuinely lack those skills.



    Management is the same exact thing. Connecting with people to get their best, so your department shines. If this dude was unable to connect with the people making the game who play games and understand what actually makes people stay and play and spend money on games, then that is on him for not wanting to understand. He probably was more irritated he got placed here as he was doing something that was working for him and got thrown into this new video game crap for children (Heard it numerous times from adults who don't play any games or have any real hobbies)


    There certainly has been many occasions when an Executive from one industry has succeeded in an entirely different one, with arguments on both sides whether it's a good practice or not.

    Regardless, not every leader can transition their previous success to a new venture, clearly the case at AGS for sure.

    The bad news is ..Bobby Kotick is looking for a new job I hear.

    ;)









    Yes you are correct. A key to being a good leader is to surround yourself with good people and then to open your ears and listen to them.

    The problem with too many so called leaders to day is they are not willing to do that. Many of them are not willing to take constructive criticism because they are more interested in is having "yes people" on their team instead of someone who has the balls to say "That will never work".

    Amazon had a game that could have been much better then what they came up with. But all of the pasty and copy of assets and boring questing kill their game. I doubt they can save it as it needs a lot of work! Plus once a game get marked it's hard to erase that mark.

    Let's say the new CEO doesn't really know anything about the widgets he was put in charge of. But he will listen to those around him. Except, his two top VP's disagree with each other. How can this CEO solve that?

    And marketing has a brand new strategy, based on the widget's new XYZ power. This CEO never even heard of that. How is he supposed to decide? Just rely on others? What if the others have differing recommendations?

    I think it is essential, in high tech at least, that the CEO does actually know what the product is. And I'll argue that game design is high tech.
    IceAgeKyleranTheDalaiBomba

    ------------
    2024: 47 years on the Net.


  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    edited March 2022
    So does Christoph Hartmann get promoted or are they bringing in someone from outside?

    I had the idea that Frazzini had already been sidelined and kept as a token-but-not-really boss and Hartmann was the one who has been running things for the past couple of years since he was hired.

    Maybe not. /shrug.
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  • KaliGoldKaliGold Member UncommonPosts: 137
    He tried to make a game for everyone and in the end made it for nobody. The people in early alpha were right, the original idea for New World should have stayed intact.

    I dont see any hope for it even though they seem to keep trying as evidenced by the roadmap.

    They kissed up to the same fly-by-night streamers at launch who dont really care about the game. The only streamers left of note are view botters.

    Ashes Of Creation may actually end up being the game New World should have been. Thats a story for another time.

  • SaruomoSaruomo Member UncommonPosts: 140
    FF14(24,762)(29,062)(95,150)Steam charts shows it is doing just as bad on this platform alone meaning that other platforms could be even worse. Valheim is doing worse than NW starting with over half a million concurrent and completely crashed now despite being Steam only.
  • SaruomoSaruomo Member UncommonPosts: 140
    edited March 2022

    KaliGold said:

    He tried to make a game for everyone and in the end made it for nobody. The people in early alpha were right, the original idea for New World should have stayed intact.



    I dont see any hope for it even though they seem to keep trying as evidenced by the roadmap.



    They kissed up to the same fly-by-night streamers at launch who dont really care about the game. The only streamers left of note are view botters.



    Ashes Of Creation may actually end up being the game New World should have been. Thats a story for another time.






    You have to acknowledge that mmo players are by far PVE players and only a handful PvP.
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    Tick.....Tick....Tick...Tick..      Tick
  • illutianillutian Member UncommonPosts: 343
    Too little, too late.

    Even an All-Star dev 'n leadership team couldn't fix NW.

    ...it was built on matchsticks and set ablaze by players just doing 'normal game stuff'; like activating a skill. Or posting sausages in chat. :P
    Asm0deus

    Our greatest glory is not in never falling but in rising everytime we fall.

  • angerbeaverangerbeaver Member UncommonPosts: 1,272

    illutian said:

    Or posting sausages in chat. :P



    First time I saw that, it was so funny. I was like "wtf was that!?"
    illutian
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