We have lost Delete, lets try not to lose anyone else in my thread guys.
Hope you are back soon mate.
We can disagree but let us not insult others that have different choices shall we. I can insult with the best of them but if you want to have a conversation here on these boards you have to respect other people's choices and if you cannot do that don't post.
We have lost Delete, lets try not to lose anyone else in my thread guys.
Hope you are back soon mate.
We can disagree but let us not insult others that have different choices shall we. I can insult with the best of them but if you want to have a conversation here on these boards you have to respect other people's choices and if you cannot do that don't post.
I know we can rely on you Cheyane and yes we have to realise other posters do not always have our opinions, we can be better than Twitter.
Do I get negative points for derailing my own thread?
We have lost Delete, lets try not to lose anyone else in my thread guys.
Hope you are back soon mate.
We can disagree but let us not insult others that have different choices shall we. I can insult with the best of them but if you want to have a conversation here on these boards you have to respect other people's choices and if you cannot do that don't post.
I know we can rely on you Cheyane and yes we have to realise other posters do not always have our opinions, we can be better than Twitter.
Do I get negative points for derailing my own thread?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'm one of "those players" that were lost to "updating story lines." GW2 lost me with their "living story(?)" updates. I never was able to keep up with them at release, mainly due to my terrible affliction with alt-itis. Needless to say, if a story line "overwrites" a previous one, then I miss out
I can relate. Alt-itis is a serious affliction
I would feel much more "comfortable" in MMORPG worlds if there were no stories that stretched over several expansions. For me, short, self-contained episodes in a world with a deep story would be much more fitting.
I only ever play sub based games or free MMORPGs. Missing out on some okish f2p and p2e titles but playing on an equal playing field and a higher grade of idiots is worth it for me. So, why shouldn't sub based come back?
I'm one of "those players" that were lost to "updating story lines." GW2 lost me with their "living story(?)" updates. I never was able to keep up with them at release, mainly due to my terrible affliction with alt-itis. Needless to say, if a story line "overwrites" a previous one, then I miss out
I can relate. Alt-itis is a serious affliction
I would feel much more "comfortable" in MMORPG worlds if there were no stories that stretched over several expansions. For me, short, self-contained episodes in a world with a deep story would be much more fitting.
I'm like this, I tend to progress slower than others, play several alts as well.
I loath when expansions or updates change the playing experience before I've had a chance to complete my personal story (or goals)
Case in point, just before BC came out in WOW my raid guild was clearing the twin EMPs in AQ40 and heading for CThun, with our sights set on the four horsemen.
Expansion released, designs changed towards smaller 25 person raids, so my guild quickly broke up, the former high tier content was no longer valid and everyone has to start the gear grind all over from square one.
From then on if any game even gave a hint of following similar designs I quickly quit (as most did trying to be WOW clones) or eventually quit even trying them in the first place.
That's why most of my post MMORPG tenure was in EVE Online or spent on several DAOC free shards, change either didn't usually invalidate my previous and current goals or...there was no change at all to deal with.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'm one of "those players" that were lost to "updating story lines." GW2 lost me with their "living story(?)" updates. I never was able to keep up with them at release, mainly due to my terrible affliction with alt-itis. Needless to say, if a story line "overwrites" a previous one, then I miss out
I can relate. Alt-itis is a serious affliction
I would feel much more "comfortable" in MMORPG worlds if there were no stories that stretched over several expansions. For me, short, self-contained episodes in a world with a deep story would be much more fitting.
if the stories are good enough and each "chapter" is tied up I would be quite happy with that. But there should not be too many such stories and there should be an easy way to recap what you missed or what you have forgotten.
I loath when expansions or updates change the playing experience before I've had a chance to complete my personal story (or goals)
I don't understand why MMORPGs feel the need to "progress" the world by changing it completely. IMO it is not necessary: Keep the world as it is and add content that focuses on all the nooks and crannies of the existing lore (given that your MMORPG has a well thought-out backstory).
if the stories are good enough and each "chapter" is tied up I would be quite happy with that. But there should not be too many such stories and there should be an easy way to recap what you missed or what you have forgotten.
No chapters are required. Just let them be self-contained short stories. The leitmotif stems from the fact that they are all set in the same universe.
Maybe you've already guessed, but I like doing side quests
I loath when expansions or updates change the playing experience before I've had a chance to complete my personal story (or goals)
I don't understand why MMORPGs feel the need to "progress" the world by changing it completely. IMO it is not necessary: Keep the world as it is and add content that focuses on all the nooks and crannies of the existing lore (given that your MMORPG has a well thought-out backstory).
I hate how so many games feel the need to deprecate old content to get players to the new endgame. An extra ten years of continuous development can sometimes leave a game with less content in a playable state than it had before.
It also sometimes means that new players who want to join later have to slog through an enormous amount of something awful to get to the handful of content that is still being maintained. That's not quite a hard ban on new players picking up the game, but it's pretty close to it, and that can't be good for player population numbers.
I loath when expansions or updates change the playing experience before I've had a chance to complete my personal story (or goals)
I don't understand why MMORPGs feel the need to "progress" the world by changing it completely. IMO it is not necessary: Keep the world as it is and add content that focuses on all the nooks and crannies of the existing lore (given that your MMORPG has a well thought-out backstory).
That's quite similar to what ESO is doing.
They are adding content, but never raised the level cap.
Champion points are important to a point though, but once you have passed a cap they don't matter that much anymore, and you get them by doing the content without having to grind anything.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
About games that are free to play combined with subscription, I
guess I could settle on that. SOE found an OK balance for that with
their freemium model, I think. There have been a few items such as xp
potions which kind of have crossed over the border to "pay to win" - ish, but oh well it wasnt too bad just yet.
Let's see, the last 10 years... that's 2012 to now.
[...], it's considered good by a large and solid player base.
And I only listed the major ones, and
probably forgotten a couple and ignored the games which status is still
uncertain, like NW. I could probably add Albion to the list since the
player base seems solid, but I don't have enough infos about it.
So
the assumptions that all MMORPGs released these last 10 years, I quote,
"sucked", is greatly exaggerated. And go figure, people even pay a
subscription for some of those games... notably FFXIV and ESO.
Looking through the options offered:
> GW2
Has no tanks or healers, everyone can tank and heal a bit. No. Also, I already tried Guild Wars and boy did that suck big time.
> Elder Scrolls Online
A
world of NO. TES is poorly balanced already for singleplayer. Also the
magic system is simplistic etc. Absolutely wouldnt want to play that as
MMO.
> Elite Dangerous
Pass. SF is not what I'm looking for in a MMORPG.
> Black Desert Online
Requires that you aim. Words fail me how much I would suck at such a game.
> Lost Ark
Extremely primitive "class" system, like 5 or so abilities you get at the start with no upgrade ever, completely twitch based combat. No.
Its
fine that all these games found their players.
But I want an involved
classic fantasy system, with around 50 or so abilities on a maxlevel
character, cooldown between ability uses, and a complex crafting etc
system as well.
Or, shorter: a game thats fully optimized for longterm motivation to play it.
Just what Vanguard offered.
Even Pantheon by the way wouldnt really have offered that. Which is why I'm not actually that sad that its apparently dead in the water.
About games that are free to play combined with subscription, I
guess I could settle on that. SOE found an OK balance for that with
their freemium model, I think. There have been a few items such as xp
potions which kind of have crossed over the border to "pay to win" - ish, but oh well it wasnt too bad just yet.
Let's see, the last 10 years... that's 2012 to now.
[...], it's considered good by a large and solid player base.
And I only listed the major ones, and
probably forgotten a couple and ignored the games which status is still
uncertain, like NW. I could probably add Albion to the list since the
player base seems solid, but I don't have enough infos about it.
So
the assumptions that all MMORPGs released these last 10 years, I quote,
"sucked", is greatly exaggerated. And go figure, people even pay a
subscription for some of those games... notably FFXIV and ESO.
Looking through the options offered:
> GW2
Has no tanks or healers, everyone can tank and heal a bit. No. Also, I already tried Guild Wars and boy did that suck big time.
> Elder Scrolls Online
A
world of NO. TES is poorly balanced already for singleplayer. Also the
magic system is simplistic etc. Absolutely wouldnt want to play that as
MMO.
> Elite Dangerous
Pass. SF is not what I'm looking for in a MMORPG.
> Black Desert Online
Requires that you aim. Words fail me how much I would suck at such a game.
> Lost Ark
Extremely primitive "class" system, like 5 or so abilities you get at the start with no upgrade ever, completely twitch based combat. No.
Its
fine that all these games found their players.
But I want an involved
classic fantasy system, with around 50 or so abilities on a maxlevel
character, cooldown between ability uses, and a complex crafting etc
system as well.
Or, shorter: a game thats fully optimized for longterm motivation to play it.
Just what Vanguard offered.
Even Pantheon by the way wouldnt really have offered that. Which is why I'm not actually that sad that its apparently dead in the water.
People keep saying Pantheon is dead...yet I haven't seen that verified yet, seem to be still swinging.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
About games that are free to play combined with subscription, I
guess I could settle on that. SOE found an OK balance for that with
their freemium model, I think. There have been a few items such as xp
potions which kind of have crossed over the border to "pay to win" - ish, but oh well it wasnt too bad just yet.
Let's see, the last 10 years... that's 2012 to now.
[...], it's considered good by a large and solid player base.
And I only listed the major ones, and
probably forgotten a couple and ignored the games which status is still
uncertain, like NW. I could probably add Albion to the list since the
player base seems solid, but I don't have enough infos about it.
So
the assumptions that all MMORPGs released these last 10 years, I quote,
"sucked", is greatly exaggerated. And go figure, people even pay a
subscription for some of those games... notably FFXIV and ESO.
Looking through the options offered:
> GW2
Has no tanks or healers, everyone can tank and heal a bit. No. Also, I already tried Guild Wars and boy did that suck big time.
> Elder Scrolls Online
A
world of NO. TES is poorly balanced already for singleplayer. Also the
magic system is simplistic etc. Absolutely wouldnt want to play that as
MMO.
> Elite Dangerous
Pass. SF is not what I'm looking for in a MMORPG.
> Black Desert Online
Requires that you aim. Words fail me how much I would suck at such a game.
> Lost Ark
Extremely primitive "class" system, like 5 or so abilities you get at the start with no upgrade ever, completely twitch based combat. No.
Its
fine that all these games found their players.
But I want an involved
classic fantasy system, with around 50 or so abilities on a maxlevel
character, cooldown between ability uses, and a complex crafting etc
system as well.
Or, shorter: a game thats fully optimized for longterm motivation to play it.
Just what Vanguard offered.
Even Pantheon by the way wouldnt really have offered that. Which is why I'm not actually that sad that its apparently dead in the water.
You pretty much made my point.
All those games have a strong following, the fact that YOU (or YOU, or YOU, or ME) don't like these games doesn't make them less successful, and doesn't make them suck.
And about Lost Ark's "primitive" class system... you may want to actually really play this game before posting that kind of stuff, because their class system is quite deep, with a tons of options to customize your character. I have quite a few negatives about that game, but shallow classes is not one of them.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
For me to pay a sub a MMORPG needs evolving gameplay and integrity of the content kept without cash shops.
I think now the biggest difference and earlier days is that I have a lot of subscriptions already. Netflix, Hulu, Gamepass and etc. Lot easier to sub to a couple of MMORPG for 30 bucks.
Also there is a some validity in having permanent access to your characters. I hope there comes a balanced payment model that allows access and not ruining integrity of the game with cash shops.
Every time this subject comes up, I think of DDO, with it's continual update cycle.
They offer all non-expansion content for as little as $15 a month, and if you only planned to play for a few months, this would be a perfect option.
Or if you want, you have the option to buy the game piecemeal.
Always with the whiners crying about it's high cost of entry... of as little as $15 a month, but no one seems to look at that, and only looks at what it would cost to buy each part of the game and never have to pay a sub.
If you ever wanted to know the future of sub based games.. that should give you all the insight you need to see.
P.S. Hope to see you back again Delete.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Its primary founder and game designer, Brad McQuaid, is dead.
And its funding has run out.
And they really tried to recreate EQ1. Vanguard ... not so much.
So for example there wont be these wonderfully complex classes again. Thats the one feature I want back the most.
Also no seamless world with realistic viewing distances. Especially since it allowed to have flying mounts. I spent hours in Vanguard just flying around once I had my flying mount (well, IIRC I had two in the end, and I'm talking about the real ones, not the cheap ones you could get from the shop). Though I could live without those much easier than without complex classes. Still, it was cool. It was much more important to me than top graphics. If at all, I would want a better implementation of a seamless world than Vanguard had, not a return to separated levels.
So yeah its not literally dead -- but you might not be too surprised that I'm not holding my breath for its release any time soon.
IF they ever get to finish it, I will probably try it out, yes.
I will comment on that video some other time in the thread in the Pantheon forum.
All those games have a strong following, the
fact that YOU (or YOU, or YOU, or ME) don't like these games doesn't
make them less successful, and doesn't make them suck.
Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuh congrats, but I was never even trying to "disprove" you ?
I just pointed out that these games arent what I want.
Which is what this thread is about, in case you missed that: "Can subscription return".
I want a game I can play longterm, socialize in it, and thats subscription based. So everybody has the same conditions in playing it.
Do you want to play a game with people who don't care enough about the title to pay a little monthly fee? How into something is a person who finds $10 a month to be an outrage?
I don't know. How much time do these people care to spend playing the game. Coughing up $10 a month is next to nothing making it a poor indicator of commitment. How much of a person's time is $10 worth these days? Those that regularly play will dwarf that commitment regardless of whether they ever spend a single penny.
MMOs need funding after they launch, to me a sub and costumes are the fairest way. ESO shows what can be achieved but I think they may have some P2W in the store now, ages since we discussed that.
MMOs need funding after they launch, to me a sub and costumes are the fairest way. ESO shows what can be achieved but I think they may have some P2W in the store now, ages since we discussed that.
Like what, for example?
You tell me, I am thinking back to a conversation a couple of years back, potions for increasing stamina etc, slots and bigger bags. Anything beyond cosmetics and paying for new zones can be seen as P2W. But I can remember the conclusion was that P2W was only marginal in ESO.
MMOs need funding after they launch, to me a sub and costumes are the fairest way. ESO shows what can be achieved but I think they may have some P2W in the store now, ages since we discussed that.
Like what, for example?
You tell me, I am thinking back to a conversation a couple of years back, potions for increasing stamina etc, slots and bigger bags. Anything beyond cosmetics and paying for new zones can be seen as P2W. But I can remember the conclusion was that P2W was only marginal in ESO.
How am I supposed to tell you what you feel to be P2W in the ESO store? That's a curious expectation.
There are very few things exclusive to the cash shop, and the vast majority that are have in game alternatives.
Optional account services are limited to the cash shop, such as extra character slots, name changes, and so forth. These typically cost extra so I don't see them an issue.
You can get potions through the shop. Superior potions can be crafted in game. You can expand character and bank inventory through the shop, but can also do the same with gold earned in game.
You can accelerate the development of your character's riding skills in the cash shop, but can also do the same over time with gold earned in play. Either way, the character's maximum riding skill potential is the same.
There are cosmetics exclusive to the shop, as well as dyes exclusively for them. However, every piece of gear you earn in play are also cosmetics with dyes for them being earned through in game achievements. There are crafting patterns exclusive to the store, but also many crafting patterns earned through play and game events.
Perhaps what would be most bothersome to many is Crown Crates, their version of loot boxes. There are cosmetics there not available through play that purchasers of them may randomly get. However, not long ago Seals of Endeavour were added to the game, earned from doing daily and weekly tasks, that can be used to directly buy cosmetics found in these crates, bypassing the monetary cost and randomness of them. I routinely earn the seals though I never bother looking up their conditions, so they are earned easily without active intent.
ESO seems pretty decent to me overall, which is why I wondered what you specific examples of P2W slipping in you had.
MMOs need funding after they launch, to me a sub and costumes are the fairest way. ESO shows what can be achieved but I think they may have some P2W in the store now, ages since we discussed that.
Like what, for example?
You tell me, I am thinking back to a conversation a couple of years back, potions for increasing stamina etc, slots and bigger bags. Anything beyond cosmetics and paying for new zones can be seen as P2W. But I can remember the conclusion was that P2W was only marginal in ESO.
How am I supposed to tell you what you feel to be P2W in the ESO store? That's a curious expectation.
There are very few things exclusive to the cash shop, and the vast majority that are have in game alternatives.
Optional account services are limited to the cash shop, such as extra character slots, name changes, and so forth. These typically cost extra so I don't see them an issue.
You can get potions through the shop. Superior potions can be crafted in game. You can expand character and bank inventory through the shop, but can also do the same with gold earned in game.
You can accelerate the development of your character's riding skills in the cash shop, but can also do the same over time with gold earned in play. Either way, the character's maximum riding skill potential is the same.
There are cosmetics exclusive to the shop, as well as dyes exclusively for them. However, every piece of gear you earn in play are also cosmetics with dyes for them being earned through in game achievements. There are crafting patterns exclusive to the store, but also many crafting patterns earned through play and game events.
Perhaps what would be most bothersome to many is Crown Crates, their version of loot boxes. There are cosmetics there not available through play that purchasers of them may randomly get. However, not long ago Seals of Endeavour were added to the game, earned from doing daily and weekly tasks, that can be used to directly buy cosmetics found in these crates, bypassing the monetary cost and randomness of them. I routinely earn the seals though I never bother looking up their conditions, so they are earned easily without active intent.
ESO seems pretty decent to me overall, which is why I wondered what you specific examples of P2W slipping in you had.
ESO is decent, though I would caution using the ability to earn things in-game as a reason for such.
There were a couple instances I recall where new features (such as furnishing crafting iirc) technically could be grinded in-game *or* expedited via the cash shop. Only, the grind was not what one would call reasonable. To their credit, Zenimax adjusted the grind I believe.
However, merely having an equivalent path in-game can still leave the player with an incredibly tedious and/or time-consuming experience, depending upon the specific implementation.
Unless it allows me to Swipe my CC, and Boot Stomp the Shit out of Someone who is otherwise far my superior in every way in PvP, it's not P2W.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Comments
Do I get negative points for derailing my own thread?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I would feel much more "comfortable" in MMORPG worlds if there were no stories that stretched over several expansions. For me, short, self-contained episodes in a world with a deep story would be much more fitting.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
I loath when expansions or updates change the playing experience before I've had a chance to complete my personal story (or goals)
Case in point, just before BC came out in WOW my raid guild was clearing the twin EMPs in AQ40 and heading for CThun, with our sights set on the four horsemen.
Expansion released, designs changed towards smaller 25 person raids, so my guild quickly broke up, the former high tier content was no longer valid and everyone has to start the gear grind all over from square one.
From then on if any game even gave a hint of following similar designs I quickly quit (as most did trying to be WOW clones) or eventually quit even trying them in the first place.
That's why most of my post MMORPG tenure was in EVE Online or spent on several DAOC free shards, change either didn't usually invalidate my previous and current goals or...there was no change at all to deal with.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It also sometimes means that new players who want to join later have to slog through an enormous amount of something awful to get to the handful of content that is still being maintained. That's not quite a hard ban on new players picking up the game, but it's pretty close to it, and that can't be good for player population numbers.
That's quite similar to what ESO is doing.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
They are have a state of the game tonight at
https://www.reddit.com/r/PantheonMMO/comments/u3l0w5/pantheon_state_of_the_game_update_twitch_link/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
And about Lost Ark's "primitive" class system... you may want to actually really play this game before posting that kind of stuff, because their class system is quite deep, with a tons of options to customize your character. I have quite a few negatives about that game, but shallow classes is not one of them.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
I think now the biggest difference and earlier days is that I have a lot of subscriptions already. Netflix, Hulu, Gamepass and etc. Lot easier to sub to a couple of MMORPG for 30 bucks.
Also there is a some validity in having permanent access to your characters. I hope there comes a balanced payment model that allows access and not ruining integrity of the game with cash shops.
They offer all non-expansion content for as little as $15 a month, and if you only planned to play for a few months, this would be a perfect option.
Or if you want, you have the option to buy the game piecemeal.
Always with the whiners crying about it's high cost of entry... of as little as $15 a month, but no one seems to look at that, and only looks at what it would cost to buy each part of the game and never have to pay a sub.
If you ever wanted to know the future of sub based games.. that should give you all the insight you need to see.
P.S. Hope to see you back again Delete.
I don't know. How much time do these people care to spend playing the game. Coughing up $10 a month is next to nothing making it a poor indicator of commitment. How much of a person's time is $10 worth these days? Those that regularly play will dwarf that commitment regardless of whether they ever spend a single penny.
Suck according to who? Not the people keeping them in business, apparently. They may not want to pay a monthly fee but have no problem paying overall.
Like what, for example?
How am I supposed to tell you what you feel to be P2W in the ESO store? That's a curious expectation.
There are very few things exclusive to the cash shop, and the vast majority that are have in game alternatives.
Optional account services are limited to the cash shop, such as extra character slots, name changes, and so forth. These typically cost extra so I don't see them an issue.
You can get potions through the shop. Superior potions can be crafted in game. You can expand character and bank inventory through the shop, but can also do the same with gold earned in game.
You can accelerate the development of your character's riding skills in the cash shop, but can also do the same over time with gold earned in play. Either way, the character's maximum riding skill potential is the same.
There are cosmetics exclusive to the shop, as well as dyes exclusively for them. However, every piece of gear you earn in play are also cosmetics with dyes for them being earned through in game achievements. There are crafting patterns exclusive to the store, but also many crafting patterns earned through play and game events.
Perhaps what would be most bothersome to many is Crown Crates, their version of loot boxes. There are cosmetics there not available through play that purchasers of them may randomly get. However, not long ago Seals of Endeavour were added to the game, earned from doing daily and weekly tasks, that can be used to directly buy cosmetics found in these crates, bypassing the monetary cost and randomness of them. I routinely earn the seals though I never bother looking up their conditions, so they are earned easily without active intent.
ESO seems pretty decent to me overall, which is why I wondered what you specific examples of P2W slipping in you had.
There were a couple instances I recall where new features (such as furnishing crafting iirc) technically could be grinded in-game *or* expedited via the cash shop. Only, the grind was not what one would call reasonable. To their credit, Zenimax adjusted the grind I believe.
However, merely having an equivalent path in-game can still leave the player with an incredibly tedious and/or time-consuming experience, depending upon the specific implementation.
May the person with the higher credit amount win!